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Sam back? Don’t kill the messenger


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24 minutes ago, Aussie Jet said:

I take the view that McVay is overrated as a coach, but he is talented. Goff, however, is a bottom tier quarterback that has conned the Rams into giving him an unwieldy contract. Had McVay had a decent quarterback at his disposal against the Patriots, I would wager that they score more than 3 points in the Super Bowl.

Yeah, a great coach might coax a few extra wins out of a team with a mediocre quarterback but it is a strategy doomed to failure when the whips are cracking.

Personally, while I think that Darnold is salvageable in the league, the Jets would be making a mistake if they stand Pat St #2 but don't take a QB. 

If McVay is overrated and Goff is bottom tier then how are the Rams one of the better teams in the NFC and a Super Bowl participant the past few years?

I think Goff is meh and McVay is almost a genius on O.  He proves what a good coach can do with an average or below average QB.

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Whenever a reporter adds the caveat that things are fluid and can change they might as well just say, "This is honestly just educated conjecture" 

If Sam is back next year than this year makes Joe look unbelievably incompetent.   The only way anyone can rationally explain this season is if we were intentionally tanking and getting a ne

It's nice that these teams/coaches/analysts throw out these useless platitudes saying Darnold is better than he's shown.  It's quite a different thing when it comes time to put your money where your m

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18 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

JD AND Douglas? 
 

The Jeff Fisher/Sean McVay upgrade is interesting but not a great comparison because Goff was entering his second season with three more years left on his rookie deal. Darnold is about to enter year 4 with a big financial decision on him looming. 
 

Season 3 Wall GIF by The Simpsons

I meant the HC and Douglas.  Just edited it.

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20 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I'm not saying it is, but IF it's possible to turn Darnold into a winner with better personnel, coaching and scheme fit, JD has to look long at hard at keeping him.  The haul he could get trading out of the #2 spot this year would be massive...

It’s so frustrating because all that Sam had to do was be decent and give hope this year. He COMPLETELY sh*t the bed. We could have been sitting here with our FQB already and taking advantage of a rare trade down opportunity in a draft that has 2 great prospects.
 

Now we have to scramble because we absolutely cannot start or even have Darnold on this team. Yes, he is that bad and I’m even shocked by it. 

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1 minute ago, Creepy Lurker said:

It’s so frustrating because all that Sam had to do was be decent and give hope this year. He COMPLETELY sh*t the bed. We could have been sitting here with our FQB already and taking advantage of a rare trade down opportunity in a draft that has 2 great prospects.
 

Now we have to scramble because we absolutely cannot start or even have Darnold on this team. Yes, he is that bad and I’m even shocked by it. 

If Sam was not abhorrent, we would not be picking #2

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56 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

If Sam is back next year than this year makes Joe look unbelievably incompetent.

 

The only way anyone can rationally explain this season is if we were intentionally tanking and getting a new coach and QB this season.

How about the previous GMs failed to find adequate talent and were grossly inept?  You could also throw in the fact that we had a rookie GM who needs time to grow into the position and made mistakes that he hopefully learns from?

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58 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

If Sam is back next year than this year makes Joe look unbelievably incompetent.

 

The only way anyone can rationally explain this season is if we were intentionally tanking and getting a new coach and QB this season.

Darnold has all the tools to be a franchise QB. No QB would have succeeded in a Gase offense with very little talent around him. The offense has been broken. Not Sam. Douglas was a Ravens scout for 14 years. You think you're a better evaluator than him.

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

This definitely worries me, but the big question will be - what does the new coach think of Sam?

I would expect most new coaches to want to start fresh with their own guy and not be saddled with the burden of having to turn a 4th year QB around. 

The caveat here is that Douglas could only focus on coaches who like Darnold, which would be a huge mistake. 

What if Sam Darnold is thought of WAY more highly in NFL circles than Jet fan boards?

What if the people who get paid to make these decisions think the better move is to keep him and surround him with a ton of talent?

 

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Darnold is getting another year.  They probably won't excercise his 5th year and will see what happens next year.  If he excells, he gets a contract or a tag.  

If he shts the bed then you presumably have 3 first round picks plus some addtl early round picks to get whatever you want.

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2 minutes ago, peebag said:

How about the previous GMs failed to find adequate talent and were grossly inept?  You could also throw in the fact that we had a rookie GM who needs time to grow into the position and made mistakes that he hopefully learns from?

Calling him a rookie GM is disingenuous considering he was here to watch over the entire last season as well. And so far, he hasnt proven to be any better than the previous 2 GM's.

 

What he does this off season will be massive, and rolling back with Darnold would be awful. I hope that isnt true. It's been 3 years. He isnt the guy. 

 

Take fields or Lawrence, or sign a stop gap QB to start this year while building up the weapons and o line this year and draft a QB next year.

 

Sam Darnold should never start another game for this franchise.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

I made it clear in my large post with info that I also heard that nothing is set in stone, that the head coach hire will truly determines Sam’s fate, along with how well the other QBs test in the next few months.  Trust me, I’m not automatically assuming the worst, but there is definitely a Pro-Sam sentiment within the organization.  The big question, that no one knows, is does that sentiment outweigh the belief that it’s time to move on and try again with another guy of JDs choosing.  

People minimize the Pro-Sam sentiment, but it matters.

While others were busy slandering the team, coach and literally the owner, Sam didn't hide from his own poor play or even hint that his HC was a nut bag and that matters to an organization.

Now whether it matters enough for the team to give Sam another year or not we all shall see.

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7 minutes ago, genot said:

Darnold has all the tools to be a franchise QB. No QB would have succeeded in a Gase offense with very little talent around him. The offense has been broken. Not Sam. Douglas was a Ravens scout for 14 years. You think you're a better evaluator than him.

He really doesnt. He has been a bad QB for 3 years in a row and has shown more regression than progression. He is geno smith at best.

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Just now, Charlie Brown said:

People minimize the Pro-Sam sentiment, but it matters.

While others were busy slandering the team, coach and literally the owner, Sam didn't hide from his own poor play or even hint that his HC was a nut bag and that matters to an organization.

Now whether it matters enough for the team to give Sam another year or not we all shall see.

Being good at PR doesnt make you good at being a QB.

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4 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

Being good at PR doesnt make you good at being a QB.

I hear you.

But again I said nothing about Sam coming back based upon performance in that post it addressed the Pro Sam sentiment and why it matters. 

Indeed, to us as fans how a player treats folks in public and in PRIVATE matters very little unless and until the athlete treats us personally poorly; however to the folks whose lives are impacted by player jerks and idiots who are sometimes arrogant beyond belief and for the clubs employees and owners it matters a great deal.

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38 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

If McVay is overrated and Goff is bottom tier then how are the Rams one of the better teams in the NFC and a Super Bowl participant the past few years?

I think Goff is meh and McVay is almost a genius on O.  He proves what a good coach can do with an average or below average QB.

I didn't say McVay is a bad coach. I said that he is overrated but I also said that he is talented. The national media thinks that McVay can do no wrong and he does everything he can to encourage that perception (and from his perspective, why wouldn't he?).

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20 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

What if Sam Darnold is thought of WAY more highly in NFL circles than Jet fan boards?

What if the people who get paid to make these decisions think the better move is to keep him and surround him with a ton of talent?

 

It’s plausible, but the people who have historically gotten paid to make these decision for the Jets have generally been very bad at their jobs - So this wouldn’t inspire me with confidence. 

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16 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

He really doesnt. He has been a bad QB for 3 years in a row and has shown more regression than progression. He is geno smith at best.

That's funny. No team would trade for a Geno Smith. Thers are a bunch that would trade fir Sam. Including the Steelers. Why trade for a bust.

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19 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

People minimize the Pro-Sam sentiment, but it matters.

While others were busy slandering the team, coach and literally the owner, Sam didn't hide from his own poor play or even hint that his HC was a nut bag and that matters to an organization.

Now whether it matters enough for the team to give Sam another year or not we all shall see.

Maybe we should move Sam to team spokesperson? Or maybe even assistant coach? 
 

I don’t think we are saying he has to leave the organization, only stop playing QB 

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

I made it clear in my large post with info that I also heard that nothing is set in stone, that the head coach hire will truly determines Sam’s fate, along with how well the other QBs test in the next few months.  Trust me, I’m not automatically assuming the worst, but there is definitely a Pro-Sam sentiment within the organization.  The big question, that no one knows, is does that sentiment outweigh the belief that it’s time to move on and try again with another guy of JDs choosing.  

Jamal Adams sends his regards.

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16 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

If Darnold is back on starter then it means that Douglas is giving up the year again. 

If he's back they're either bringing in a vet to compete for the job or drafting a rookie in the 1st. Can't see him just planning on Sam being the guy without a legit plan B next year.

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

I think he does not want to give Darnold away but would do so if the price is right, if not he can stay one more year and ease the New Qb into it.

The big worry for me is that James frickn Morgan is the new Hackenburg for this regime.

Morgan.....you are correct sir.

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7 minutes ago, genot said:

That's funny. No team would trade for a Geno Smith. Thers are a bunch that would trade fir Sam. Including the Steelers. Why trade for a bust.

Nobody is trading for Sam for more than a conditional pick. Sam is a bust.

8 TDS and 9 picks and less than 2K yards in his third year in the league. You could get better production from a UDFA. Flacco is toast and in the same offense has 6 tds and 3 ints and mims and perriman looked like actual WRs with him.

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

I made it clear in my large post with info that I also heard that nothing is set in stone, that the head coach hire will truly determines Sam’s fate, along with how well the other QBs test in the next few months.  Trust me, I’m not automatically assuming the worst, but there is definitely a Pro-Sam sentiment within the organization.  The big question, that no one knows, is does that sentiment outweigh the belief that it’s time to move on and try again with another guy of JDs choosing.  

Always appreciate your posts.

The only sentiment that should matter at Florham Park is that of Douglas and eventually the new coach.  I hope/pray the Johnsons, Hymie and whomever else don’t have a say in this.  

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1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Whenever a reporter adds the caveat that things are fluid and can change they might as well just say, "This is honestly just educated conjecture" 

Fluid meaning if Jags are dumb enough to take Fields over Trevor 

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13 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

Nobody is trading for Sam for more than a conditional pick. Sam is a bust.

8 TDS and 9 picks and less than 2K yards in his third year in the league. You could get better production from a UDFA. Flacco is toast and in the same offense has 6 tds and 3 ints and mims and perriman looked like actual WRs with him.

And if Douglas sticks with Sam, he's just a stupid man who knows nothing about football. Okay

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59 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

It’s so frustrating because all that Sam had to do was be decent and give hope this year. He COMPLETELY sh*t the bed. We could have been sitting here with our FQB already and taking advantage of a rare trade down opportunity in a draft that has 2 great prospects.
 

Now we have to scramble because we absolutely cannot start or even have Darnold on this team. Yes, he is that bad and I’m even shocked by it. 

Here's the way I look at it.  If JD were to trade Sam to New Orleans, with Kamara and Thomas, coached by Payton, or to KC, with Hill and Kelce, coached by Reid, could he win a Super Bowl?  If you're convinced "no way", you trade him.  If you think, "hmm..." then the decision gets much harder...

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Pretty clear to me as well. If Darnold is starting Week 1 then Douglas is not the guy.

What does this even mean?

 

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31 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

Nobody is trading for Sam for more than a conditional pick. Sam is a bust.

8 TDS and 9 picks and less than 2K yards in his third year in the league. You could get better production from a UDFA. Flacco is toast and in the same offense has 6 tds and 3 ints and mims and perriman looked like actual WRs with him.

Conditional pick?

Stop immediately

 

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IMO comes down to the HC and Darnolds trade value. 

You can’t say there were teams lining up and Douglas isn’t listening. If he’s passing on a 2nd round pick or something for him, then boy oh boy am I gonna sour on JD. 

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