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9 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Because we need a QB and we are picking #2 overall.

We have only picked #2 overall two other times in franchise history. This is golden opportunity to draft a good QB. Your solution is to wait until we are a middling 8 win team with a good roster but no QB? Then what, use more draft capital to trade up for our guy? I just don't get this silly "build the team first, then find a QB" argument. 

Again, QB is part of the team. Finding the right QB is part (actually, the most important part) of doing the "goddam job properly." 

I guess the Jags shouldn't take Trevor, since their team is doodoo? To be safe, I guess no team with fewer than 8 wins should take a QB, otherwise they might not be good enough team to develop him!!!!. So, maybe Trevor drops to the Raiders? Am I doing this right?

Besides the fact that we're likely to have a high pick next year (and we have two firsts again next year)... When was Mahomes taken? How about Watson? What about Rodgers? How about big Ben? Herbert? Josh Allen? 

We don't need to be pick 2 to find a quarterback. 

The whole 'finding the right quarterback' argument is funny. Besides what I said before about most of the good quarterbacks in this league walking into a good situation, I find it funny how quickly everyone pivots. 

It was Trevor or bust... and how quickly all of you are on the Fields > Trevor bandwagon now. 

Does that sound like 'finding the right quarterback' or desperation?

No prospect you put behind center on this team right now will develop into anything other than a shattered, jittery mess. Just like Darnold. Build an offensive line, bring in weapons, find a good coach... there are quarterback prospects every year.

Trevor was the exception. He's the consensus best prospect since Luck. I was absolutely on board to adjust accordingly. 

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16 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Too many of you, IMO, are making it a necessity to take a quarterback this year.

Unless we sign a series of quality, high-priced free agents, this team isn't going to be drastically better next year. Why do we want throw another talented prospect into that mess?

Jalen Hurts has what, one win so far as a starter? How are the Texans and Deshaun Watson doing this year? 

The team around you counts for a lot. There are Fields and Wilson's in the draft every year. 

So who is the QB then next year? Darnold? Haha.  The GM and new HC are moving on from him.  So it's James Morgan and then who? What you're basically saying is to tank the season next year bc you believe the Jets can't get better in one offseason? They only have the 2nd most cap space in the nfl in a year where teams will be looking to shed good veterans bc of a cap crunch, plus the Jets have 4 picks in the top 100 to make their team better. The Jets have the money to add Thuney and 1 of Juju or Allen Robinson. Plus a RB like Kenyan Drake or Leonard Fournette. Let's not forget about the draft where they could take a Guard, TE, WR and/or a HB with the 4 remaining picks they have in the 1st 3 rounds. Plus let's look at the trade market where Kittle may be available and the Jets have the money and picks to make that work. Plenty of other really good veteran players will be available for pennies on the dollar bc of the cap space issues many teams have.  In this one offseason the Jets could completely remake this offense and set up a rookie QB for success. 

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18 minutes ago, choon328 said:

So who is the QB then next year? Darnold? Haha.  The GM and new HC are moving on from him.  So it's James Morgan and then who? What you're basically saying is to tank the season next year bc you believe the Jets can't get better in one offseason? They only have the 2nd most cap space in the nfl in a year where teams will be looking to shed good veterans bc of a cap crunch, plus the Jets have 4 picks in the top 100 to make their team better. The Jets have the money to add Thuney and 1 of Juju or Allen Robinson. Plus a RB like Kenyan Drake or Leonard Fournette. Let's not forget about the draft where they could take a Guard, TE, WR and/or a HB with the 4 remaining picks they have in the 1st 3 rounds. Plus let's look at the trade market where Kittle may be available and the Jets have the money and picks to make that work. Plenty of other really good veteran players will be available for pennies on the dollar bc of the cap space issues many teams have.  In this one offseason the Jets could completely remake this offense and set up a rookie QB for success. 

We're not the only team with money... and if you were a free agent, would you come here right now?

I think the high-priced free agents are out; those fellas have choices. And as I said, If I'm wrong and we brought in a premier receiver and a premier offensive lineman, I'm down to adjust and take a quarterback at 2. I'm just not assuming that's likely to happen. 

And anyone we draft will be a rookie, and either struggle early or not even start immediately. Becton, as good as he's been as a rookie, has still been inconsistent... and he's our best offensive player!!

Trading for Kittle?

Sh*t, man, if things go the way you're talking - I'm down to take a quarterback.

But how about this, if they don't, then you adjust and think about Darnold + a veteran for next year at QB (and only next year), we take Ja Marr Chase or Penei Sewell at 2 and we'll talk about drafting quarterbacks next offseason, and see if it makes more sense. 

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26 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Besides the fact that we're likely to have a high pick next year (and we have two firsts again next year)... When was Mahomes taken? How about Watson? What about Rodgers? How about big Ben? Herbert? Josh Allen? 

We don't need to be pick 2 to find a quarterback. 

The whole 'finding the right quarterback' argument is funny. Besides what I said before about most of the good quarterbacks in this league walking into a good situation, I find it funny how quickly everyone pivots. 

It was Trevor or bust... and how quickly all of you are on the Fields > Trevor bandwagon now. 

Does that sound like 'finding the right quarterback' or desperation?

No prospect you put behind center on this team right now will develop into anything other than a shattered, jittery mess. Just like Darnold. Build an offensive line, bring in weapons, find a good coach... there are quarterback prospects every year.

Trevor was the exception. He's the consensus best prospect since Luck. I was absolutely on board to adjust accordingly. 

1) Sure, good QBs can be found anywhere in the draft. Just like any other position. This doesn't change the fact that you'd rather be picking in the top 5 when you need a QB because you have your pick of the litter. 

2) It was never Trevor or Bust for me. I've been saying that Fields is no brainer for us if we miss out on Trevor since October. And that's because he is. 

3) I don't buy that QBs can't develop on bad/rebuilding teams. In fact, many good QBs throughout history did just that. When you suck and are picking near the top of the first round you generally don't have a QB, so sometimes, you pick one. Plenty of good to great QBs have developed in those situations. Troy Aikman, John Elway, Steve McNair, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Michael Vick, Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Matt Stafford, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Kyler Murray, and Joe Burrow were ALL top 5 picks, and therefore, came into the league on rebuilding teams. 

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40 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

1) Sure, good QBs can be found anywhere in the draft. Just like any other position. This doesn't change the fact that you'd rather be picking in the top 5 when you need a QB because you have your pick of the litter. 

2) It was never Trevor or Bust for me. I've been saying that Fields is no brainer for us if we miss out on Trevor since October. And that's because he is. 

3) I don't buy that QBs can't develop on bad/rebuilding teams. In fact, many good QBs throughout history did just that. When you suck and are picking near the top of the first round you generally don't have a QB, so sometimes, you pick one. Plenty of good to great QBs have developed in those situations. Troy Aikman, John Elway, Steve McNair, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Michael Vick, Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Matt Stafford, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Kylar Murray, and Joe Burrow were ALL top 5 picks, and therefore, came into the league on rebuilding teams. 

Elway, Peyton & Luck were considered generational prospects. I've already said, if it's Trevor we were talking about, I'm all for taking him and dealing with the consequences. He's considered that level of prospect. 

  • Philip Rivers walked into one of the best situations; "here's Antonio Gates and LT in their prime, and you can sit for two years behind Brees and learn to be a pro."
  • Matt Stafford had Calvin Johnson as a rookie.
  • Steve McNair basically sat for two years and had Eddie George in his prime from the second he was named starter. 
  • Cam Newton, as a rookie, played with Steve Smith, Greg Olsen, Jordan Gross, DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart
  • Matt Ryan had Roddy White, Michael Turner both pro-bowlers, in his rookie year
  • Eli Manning sat 8 games, then came in and was handing off to Tiki Barber, and throwing to Amani Toomer & Jeremy Shockey
  • Carson Palmer - sat his entire rookie year, when he started in year 2, he was throwing to OchoCinco, TJ Housh and handing off to Rudi Johnson who was running behind Willie Anderson. 
  • Troy Aikman - Some nice years before Emmitt... huh?1909018640_ScreenShot2021-01-03at6_27_05PM.thumb.png.d4355d8b8fd17f2f633b5c81d3807163.png

 

  • Michael Vick - started 2 games as a rookie, in year 2 as the starter, the team had Warrick Dunn, TJ Duckett & Alge Crumpler,
  • Kyler Murray - might be the only guy here that took a bad team and turned it around without much talent around him. Larry Fitz was already ancient and that o-line was pretty weak.
  • Joe Burrow - Mixon got hurt, but they definitely have a better receiving corps than us... but they threw a talented kid behind a terrible offensive line and look what happened. They're pick 5 this year. 

 

Other than Murray, pretty much everyone you listed had a decent if not great situation. Ours is currently terrible. Let's address the underlying problems first: i.e. offensive line, receiving talent, runningbacks etc. We can't get all of it, nor am I saying we have to wait until we have the "perfect team" but what I'm trying to avoid is Darnold 2.0... 

Sure, if we sign Allen Robinson, Joe Thuney, Jonnu Smith & Gus Edwards, I'll reconsider. But we both know landing even two of those guys right now isn't the most realistic - especially one of the first two. 

How about we take Ja'Marr Chase or Penei Sewell @ 2, sign a vet QB to compete with Darnold, and look to draft a quarterback next year, when JD has two draft classes under his belt and the roster is in a lot better shape?

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4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Chris Johnson watching this crap: 

“whoa i own the jets”

"Hey, Chris, isn't this the football team your family owns?"

 

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4 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

He looked like sh*t at the end of the game.

No excuses for that last pick.  

Think about this, though. Let’s say we take Fields, the guy with 2 great wideouts, a good RB and a dominant offensive line in college and trot him out on Sundays. 

You don’t think we ruin him too? The argument for keeping Sam is that the rest of the offense needs to add more talent before we can even talk about developing a quarterback. 

If you take Sewell or Chase, you add a superstar... or maybe trade down and take the volume approach. Either way you’re setting up the guy after Darnold, whomever it is. 

Because right now, the Pats rushed the three, got pressure, and played man coverage because we don’t have anyone that can routinely beat man coverage. 

And yes, Sam played like sh*t in the fourth quarter. 

Yes, but your argument is to wait until you build this mythical day when everything is perfectly in place. By design under the salary cap that day never comes.If Douglas thinks we can get a real QB with that 2nd pick, so be it. There is no bad time for that.  If you get a serious coach and make some good draft decisions and free agent singings, you can turn things around  very quickly. Doesn't mean the Jets will be in next year's Super Bowl, but there could be significant progress, even the playoffs. 

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38 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Elway, Peyton & Luck were considered generational prospects. I've already said, if it's Trevor we were talking about, I'm all for taking him and dealing with the consequences. He's considered that level of prospect. 

  • Philip Rivers walked into one of the best situations; "here's Antonio Gates and LT in their prime, and you can sit for two years behind Brees and learn to be a pro."
  • Matt Stafford had Calvin Johnson as a rookie.
  • Steve McNair basically sat for two years and had Eddie George in his prime from the second he was named starter. 
  • Cam Newton, as a rookie, played with Steve Smith, Greg Olsen, Jordan Gross, DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart
  • Matt Ryan had Roddy White, Michael Turner both pro-bowlers, in his rookie year
  • Eli Manning sat 8 games, then came in and was handing off to Tiki Barber, and throwing to Amani Toomer & Jeremy Shockey
  • Carson Palmer - sat his entire rookie year, when he started in year 2, he was throwing to OchoCinco, TJ Housh and handing off to Rudi Johnson who was running behind Willie Anderson. 
  • Troy Aikman - Some nice years before Emmitt... huh?1909018640_ScreenShot2021-01-03at6_27_05PM.thumb.png.d4355d8b8fd17f2f633b5c81d3807163.png

 

  • Michael Vick - started 2 games as a rookie, in year 2 as the starter, the team had Warrick Dunn, TJ Duckett & Alge Crumpler,
  • Kyler Murray - might be the only guy here that took a bad team and turned it around without much talent around him. Larry Fitz was already ancient and that o-line was pretty weak.
  • Joe Burrow - Mixon got hurt, but they definitely have a better receiving corps than us... but they threw a talented kid behind a terrible offensive line and look what happened. They're pick 5 this year. 

 

Other than Murray, pretty much everyone you listed had a decent if not great situation. Ours is currently terrible. Let's address the underlying problems first: i.e. offensive line, receiving talent, runningbacks etc. We can't get all of it, nor am I saying we have to wait until we have the "perfect team" but what I'm trying to avoid is Darnold 2.0... 

Sure, if we sign Allen Robinson, Joe Thuney, Jonnu Smith & Gus Edwards, I'll reconsider. But we both know landing even two of those guys right now isn't the most realistic - especially one of the first two. 

How about we take Ja'Marr Chase or Penei Sewell @ 2, sign a vet QB to compete with Darnold, and look to draft a quarterback next year, when JD has two draft classes under his belt and the roster is in a lot better shape?

I don't agree with a lot of this, but at this point, we going around in circles. I just think we are on different wavelengths. 

FYI, the best way to avoid Darnold 2.0 is to draft a better player and get him better coaching earlier in his career. We can do that this year. 

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

1) Sure, good QBs can be found anywhere in the draft. Just like any other position. This doesn't change the fact that you'd rather be picking in the top 5 when you need a QB because you have your pick of the litter. 

2) It was never Trevor or Bust for me. I've been saying that Fields is no brainer for us if we miss out on Trevor since October. And that's because he is. 

3) I don't buy that QBs can't develop on bad/rebuilding teams. In fact, many good QBs throughout history did just that. When you suck and are picking near the top of the first round you generally don't have a QB, so sometimes, you pick one. Plenty of good to great QBs have developed in those situations. Troy Aikman, John Elway, Steve McNair, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Michael Vick, Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Matt Stafford, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Kyler Murray, and Joe Burrow were ALL top 5 picks, and therefore, came into the league on rebuilding teams. 

Completely agree. It’s not ******* rocket science. QB is the scarcest resource, hoping you are lucky to hit on a qb outside the top five or ten is foolish. It can happen, but it’s way less likely to happen. 

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8 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Completely agree. It’s not ******* rocket science. QB is the scarcest resource, hoping you are lucky to hit on a qb outside the top five or ten is foolish. It can happen, but it’s way less likely to happen. 

What kills me more than anything is, not only should we not take a QB at #2 overall, but we shouldn't even draft one this year! The team with the worst QB in the league this year shouldn't draft a QB. 

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25 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Yes, but your argument is to wait until you build this mythical day when everything is perfectly in place. By design under the salary cap that day never comes.If Douglas thinks we can get a real QB with that 2nd pick, so be it. There is no bad time for that.  If you get a serious coach and make some good draft decisions and free agent singings, you can turn things around  very quickly. Doesn't mean the Jets will be in next year's Super Bowl, but there could be significant progress, even the playoffs. 

My argument isn’t to wait until “things are perfectly in place”. My argument is add talent on offense in this draft and draft a quarterback next year after Joe D has two drafts under his belt and the roster isn’t a dumpster fire. 

Is Fields or Wilson so special or will there be prospects on their level next year - because it’s fairly likely we’ll be picking in the top 10 next year, and have two firsts. 

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23 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I don't agree with a lot of this, but at this point, we going around in circles. I just think we are on different wavelengths. 

FYI, the best way to avoid Darnold 2.0 is to draft a better player and get him better coaching earlier in his career. We can do that this year. 

Agree to disagree. 

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