What I wanted for Trevor Lawrence; is what I want for Justin Fields (it's only right).

[Ghost420]

36 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Of for God's sake. What do you think? JD is going to wave his magic wand over this team and suddenly the Johnson's  will start doing things right,  this team is suddenly  going to make all the right moves? That all the draft picks are going to  be top players at their positions? Think about it. Look at what happens when we get a top player? Williams is playing on the Giants and Adams is playing on the Seahawks. There was nothing wrong with keeping either player. What makes you think any of this changes? In what universe does Ju Ju, Robinson, or Godwin choose the Jets as a destination? I am sure Robinson is looking at the Jets and think, oh yeah, I gotta get me some of that. This team is at the very beginning af a major rebuild. There is no way Robinson wants  that at this point, same with Ju Ju. Yeah,  I was on a class organization  in Pit but let me start over on the Jets. 

Freaking unbelievable.  I just hope whatever draft picks we make we hit on about 3 of them. 

**** Leonard Williams and jamall all I can do is sack the qb Adams

[Bruce Harper]

DWC, keep making your posts. Haters gonna hate.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[BCJet]

Im not sure why we would give up on McGovern who has been a top 10 center over the second half of the season and is under contract.

Either way, the key with Fields would be to do exactly what the Bills did with Josh Allen. Year 1 the offense is very heavy on read-zone, QB runs and half field reads.  We arent a SB team but will at least win games and be competitive while not overwhelming a rookie QB.  Im not saying dink an dunk, thats completely different - Fields can use his downfield arm to take shots, you just dont want to give him complicated reads that lead to holding the ball too long and in turn sacks.

As he gets more comfortable in year 2, you start to incorporate more difficult full-field reads and thats where you hope he "develops" as a QB so that in year 3 he can make a true leap into the top 10 or so in the league while becoming a better full field passer and keeping his ability to extend plays and run the ball.

[jetophile]

On 1/3/2021 at 6:48 PM, Cut Jet Penalty Makers said:

Word.

Pages. 

[FidelioJet]

Drafting Fields will show the continued level of incompetence of this organization.

[sec101row23]

17 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Im not sure why we would give up on McGovern who has been a top 10 center over the second half of the season and is under contract.

Either way, the key with Fields would be to do exactly what the Bills did with Josh Allen. Year 1 the offense is very heavy on read-zone, QB runs and half field reads.  We arent a SB team but will at least win games and be competitive while not overwhelming a rookie QB.  Im not saying dink an dunk, thats completely different - Fields can use his downfield arm to take shots, you just dont want to give him complicated reads that lead to holding the ball too long and in turn sacks.

As he gets more comfortable in year 2, you start to incorporate more difficult full-field reads and thats where you hope he "develops" as a QB so that in year 3 he can make a true leap into the top 10 or so in the league while becoming a better full field passer and keeping his ability to extend plays and run the ball.

I tend to agree, but I think you give the QB as much as he can handle.   These kids all process info differently and each has their way of learning an offense.  Some will absorb it all quickly, some need a more methodical spoon fed approach.  This is where the coaching staff becomes so critical when developing a rookie QB.  I can give the same playbook to 5 different coaches and you will get 5 different approaches to how that playbook is taught to a rookie QB.  Just like you have good and bad teachers in high school and college, you have the same when it comes to NFL coaches.  Some are able to break it down in much simpler terms for a rookie and some are not.  Some are better with veteran QBs.   Some guys are great playcallers, but are terrible with development.   
 

As much as the post snap reads are important, Pre snap reads and decisions are probably more important for a young QB.  Not to make this some diatribe on QB development, but when I’ve spoken to some coaches they maintain that pre snap decisions are more vital.   The decisions pre snap directly affect the post snap decisions.  Aside from protections, being able to get out of a bad call is critical.  Success in this is so reliant on how the offense is presented to the QB.  The QB is going to be important, but ultimately the new staff is going to be more important.   Hopefully the Jets can get an OC or QB coach that can TEACH and offense.  

[Scott Dierking]

7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Drafting Fields will show the continued level of incompetence of this organization.

Or, it may be wildly successful.

Or, it may lead to mediocrity.

No one knows for sure. But, it will be a decision that the GM will be judged upon.

 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

I tend to agree, but I think you give the QB as much as he can handle.   These kids all process info differently and each has their way of learning an offense.  Some will absorb it all quickly, some need a more methodical spoon fed approach.  This is where the coaching staff becomes so critical when developing a rookie QB.  I can give the same playbook to 5 different coaches and you will get 5 different approaches to how that playbook is taught to a rookie QB.  Just like you have good and bad teachers in high school and college, you have the same when it comes to NFL coaches.  Some are able to break it down in much simpler terms for a rookie and some are not.  Some are better with veteran QBs.   Some guys are great playcallers, but are terrible with development.   
 

As much as the post snap reads are important, Pre snap reads and decisions are probably more important for a young QB.  Not to make this some diatribe on QB development, but when I’ve spoken to some coaches they maintain that pre snap decisions are more vital.   The decisions pre snap directly affect the post snap decisions.  Aside from protections, being able to get out of a bad call is critical.  Success in this is so reliant on how the offense is presented to the QB.  The QB is going to be important, but ultimately the new staff is going to be more important.   Hopefully the Jets can get an OC or QB coach that can TEACH and offense.  

Isn’t it vital that the presnap stuff at least at the basic level is mastered before they get to the NFL level? Could be why these OSU QB’s have failed. Darnold too. 

Granted I haven’t watched every Fields game but it looks like he’s in a basic offense surrounded by 5 *’s and is making relatively easy throws with a few nice bombs mixed in. The two games where he faced a pass rush he melted. 
 

Who knows how the interviews or medicals go, but from my eyes Wilson looks like the superior prospect. 

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I tend to agree, but I think you give the QB as much as he can handle.   These kids all process info differently and each has their way of learning an offense.  Some will absorb it all quickly, some need a more methodical spoon fed approach.  This is where the coaching staff becomes so critical when developing a rookie QB.  I can give the same playbook to 5 different coaches and you will get 5 different approaches to how that playbook is taught to a rookie QB.  Just like you have good and bad teachers in high school and college, you have the same when it comes to NFL coaches.  Some are able to break it down in much simpler terms for a rookie and some are not.  Some are better with veteran QBs.   Some guys are great playcallers, but are terrible with development.   
 

As much as the post snap reads are important, Pre snap reads and decisions are probably more important for a young QB.  Not to make this some diatribe on QB development, but when I’ve spoken to some coaches they maintain that pre snap decisions are more vital.   The decisions pre snap directly affect the post snap decisions.  Aside from protections, being able to get out of a bad call is critical.  Success in this is so reliant on how the offense is presented to the QB.  The QB is going to be important, but ultimately the new staff is going to be more important.   Hopefully the Jets can get an OC or QB coach that can TEACH and offense.  

What was great to see from Fields in Clemson game #2 is that they showed him a lot of the same looks that they used in game #1 (the 3 high safety), and he was coached to anticipate that (I presume) and had a plan of attack. When the they showed that look, Fields checked off to his RB's and short WR's. When they went off that look, he attacked the middle deep.

And he executed. 

Clemson not having their safety was huge for that first half.

[PepPep]

On 1/3/2021 at 4:02 PM, extmenace said:

Lol, I can type out 20+ different line ups that I’d love to see next season, doesn’t mean anything. I’m just giving you a heads up, that’s all. Get yourself mentally prepared for the trade down because everything I’ve seen to this point leads me to believe there is a good chance it happens.

 

On 1/3/2021 at 2:51 PM, extmenace said:

Jets are trading down and sticking with Sam. JD is all about accumulating picks. He’s going to get a boat load for that second pick. Don’t get your hopes up too high. This upcoming draft will be all about rebuilding. Maybe they’ll sign a jamesis Winston or mariota kind of guy to compete with Sam. 

Any trade down will result in a loaded draft for the Jets, we already have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. So even without a rookie QB and Sam in there you can assume a significantly upgraded roster- at least with young talent. But the fact is, the Jets have a ton of cap room and WILL go after FAs and WILL pursue some of their own FAs like Poole/Hewitt/Maye if they feel like its the direction they want to go in. 

I also believe the only way they DON'T draft a QB #2 overall is if they don't truly believe there is a QB worth drafting there, a QB that (after careful review and scrutiny) is not a Franchise caliber QB in their eyes. NOT because they believe in Darnold or because they love Sewell or they love some QB who may or may not come out next year or they just want to trade down no matter what. All the Jet Brass Darnold love is a smokescreen to boost trade value in my opinion. He's done.

I think the Jets want to move down a spot or two and still get Fields. Honestly, now that the draft order is settled, trading one spot down and letting the Dolphins take Sewell while gaining a pick or two then taking Fields is probably what the Jets will do. But I see JD moving down again later in the draft like he did in Rd. 2 last year. 

And while we may see him take an O-lineman or WR high in the draft, no way he takes a RB high. Don't be surprised if we go Edge or CB with the Seattle pick if its not an O-lineman.   

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Isn’t it vital that the presnap stuff at least at the basic level is mastered before they get to the NFL level? Could be why these OSU QB’s have failed. Darnold too. 

Granted I haven’t watched every Fields game but it looks like he’s in a basic offense surrounded by 5 *’s and is making relatively easy throws with a few nice bombs mixed in. The two games where he faced a pass rush he melted. 
 

Who knows how the interviews or medicals go, but from my eyes Wilson looks like the superior prospect. 

As mentioned in the previous post, Fields did a great job reading Clemsons' defense pre-snap. 

One thing that has helped prepare young QB's more than anything at college is the advent of RPO, and the need for them to think on the fly. They are much more prepared to come into the pro game now than they have in the past.

Your basic premise of evaluating Fields supposedly based on the premise of "facing rush teams" is overly simplified. Granted, Fields has often held the ball too long, which has allowed rushes to get to him, and he has made bad mistakes just trying to make a play. Get someone good to coach him and that can be taken away.

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Isn’t it vital that the presnap stuff at least at the basic level is mastered before they get to the NFL level? Could be why these OSU QB’s have failed. Darnold too. 

Granted I haven’t watched every Fields game but it looks like he’s in a basic offense surrounded by 5 *’s and is making relatively easy throws with a few nice bombs mixed in. The two games where he faced a pass rush he melted. 
 

Who knows how the interviews or medicals go, but from my eyes Wilson looks like the superior prospect. 

It really depends on the program.  So many offenses are solely called from the sideline, that’s why you see teams line up and then look over at the sidelines for the call.  Some QBs have no control pre snap, they run the play as called from the sideline. I don’t know how much leeway Fields has the LOS, just by watching I would assume he does have some ability to check out of certain situations.  I can’t speak to the specifics of OSU’s offense.   I do have much more insight into Clemson’s offense and how they allow the QB to make necessary changes.  I can tell you that Trevor has far more pre snap responsibilities this year than he had his freshman a year.  It really depends on how the coaches teach the pre snap keys.  Some will simply have the QB count the number of defenders in the box, some use motion to ID man or zone and make the call from there, some will count how many players are on either side of the hash’s.  It depends on the philosophy.  

[bealeb319]

What does the defense look like in this scenario? Having a good offense is nice and all but if we have to score on every single drive because our defense can't stop anything we are in trouble.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

It really depends on the program.  So many offenses are solely called from the sideline, that’s why you see teams line up and then look over at the sidelines for the call.  Some QBs have no control pre snap, they run the play as called from the sideline. I don’t know how much leeway Fields has the LOS, just by watching I would assume he does have some ability to check out of certain situations.  I can’t speak to the specifics of OSU’s offense.   I do have much more insight into Clemson’s offense and how they allow the QB to make necessary changes.  I can tell you that Trevor has far more pre snap responsibilities this year than he had his freshman a year.  It really depends on how the coaches teach the pre snap keys.  Some will simply have the QB count the number of defenders in the box, some use motion to ID man or zone and make the call from there, some will count how many players are on either side of the hash’s.  It depends on the philosophy.  

yeah, watching Lawrence it’s easy to see why he’s such a valued prospect. He looks like a pro playing in college and you rarely see that.

The Jets need to get this one right. Fields seems like a lot of work that I’m not sure the Jets can or want to support. Missing out on Lawrence sucks lol.

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

yeah, watching Lawrence it’s easy to see why he’s such a valued prospect. He looks like a pro playing in college and you rarely see that.

The Jets need to get this one right. Fields seems like a lot of work that I’m not sure the Jets can or want to support. Missing out on Lawrence sucks lol.

Honestly, you simply don’t know.   Just because Fields may not have been given the freedom or flexibility to make changes pre snap, doesn’t mean he isn’t capable to do so, it just means he hasn’t shown it yet.  Just like “going through progressions”, some guys aren’t coached to sit there and go from 1 to 2 to 3, they’re told it’s 1 or check down, or 1 or take off running.  You just don’t know. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

Honestly, you simply don’t know.   Just because Fields may not have been given the freedom or flexibility to make changes pre snap, doesn’t mean he isn’t capable to do so, it just means he hasn’t shown it yet.  Just like “going through progressions”, some guys aren’t coached to sit there and go from 1 to 2 to 3, they’re told it’s 1 or check down, or 1 or take off running.  You just don’t know. 

you watch fields vs clemson and he's locking onto most of his first reads, but if they're open and he throws for 6 tds there's no reason to go thru your progressions is there?

[sec101row23]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

you watch fields vs clemson and he's locking onto most of his first reads, but if they're open and he throws for 6 tds there's no reason to go thru your progressions is there?

Absolutely, and they were open a lot against Clemson.  I think people feel that if a QB doesn’t sit in the pocket for 4 seconds and moves his head from left to right on every drop back that he can’t go through progressions.  I think people would be surprised to learn that so many plays in college are simple one read plays,  if this then that.  

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

What does the defense look like in this scenario? Having a good offense is nice and all but if we have to score on every single drive because our defense can't stop anything we are in trouble.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

The approach that "the first 5 or so picks have to be all offense" are ridiculous. 

What you have to do is look at all the areas of the team that need to be upgraded, and place a priority on those. That priority is often based upon evaluation of the entire board and how deep certain positions are. It has to be weighed against the FA class also.

The statements of the Jets need to go QB, WR, OT, C, RB, or some variation of that, are just plain silly.

 

[Scott Dierking]

13 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

yeah, watching Lawrence it’s easy to see why he’s such a valued prospect. He looks like a pro playing in college and you rarely see that.

The Jets need to get this one right. Fields seems like a lot of work that I’m not sure the Jets can or want to support. Missing out on Lawrence sucks lol.

I said at the beginning of this year  in a comparison of Lawrence vs Fields is that Fields has a higher ceiling, but he also has a higher bust factor. Just one person's opinion. 

[Scott Dierking]

12 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

you watch fields vs clemson and he's locking onto most of his first reads, but if they're open and he throws for 6 tds there's no reason to go thru your progressions is there?

Yes, but that does not dismiss that based on the pre-snap reads that he got from the defensive look, that he adjusted his progression based upon the defense that was being shown to him. There is a difference.

[JustInFudge]

Unreal.  Harassed me for months over my support for Fields, following my every post and neg rep'ing any time I gave Fields love, tagging me anytime Fields had an incompletion, telling me I'm an idiot and know nothing about Football for supporting him...for months this happened, months....and now he's onboard, pathetic.

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

Unreal.  Harassed me for months over my support for Fields, following my every post and neg rep'ing any time I gave Fields love, tagging me anytime Fields had an incompletion, telling me I'm an idiot and know nothing about Football for supporting him...for months this happened, months....and now he's onboard, pathetic.

 

 

[MindOverMatter]

Ahhhh yes off-season and draft talk. The only time that Jets fans can be hopeful and fantasize of building a good team. No room for those feelings during the season while the Jets are ripping your beating heart out of your chest on gamedays.

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Yes, but that does not dismiss that based on the pre-snap reads that he got from the defensive look, that he adjusted his progression based upon the defense that was being shown to him. There is a difference.

and i have no idea what he's doing and not doing.  maybe he's doing a lot.

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

and i have no idea what he's doing and not doing.  maybe he's doing a lot.

That is as honest a post you will find on this site. None of us do.

That is why the portion that fans are not exposed to (talking football with the athlete, understanding their grasps of systems and the game, along with general demeanor) are so important. And it is why certain talent evaluators often hit upon more picks than others.

[section314]

7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

The approach that "the first 5 or so picks have to be all offense" are ridiculous. 

What you have to do is look at all the areas of the team that need to be upgraded, and place a priority on those. That priority is often based upon evaluation of the entire board and how deep certain positions are. It has to be weighed against the FA class also.

The statements of the Jets need to go QB, WR, OT, C, RB, or some variation of that, are just plain silly.

 

So true. Just look at our own sordid draft history. The Blair Thomas draft is the perfect example. At that time, the Jets had the makings of a nice young defense. If my memory is right, we had Lageman. Byrd and Washington on DL, and Hasty and McMillian in the secondary. Cortez Kennedy and Junior Seau were both sitting there, and either one could have put that D over the top, Seau probably more . But, we "needed" offense, so instead of taking the best player, we took Blair Thomas. It's an idiotic strategy, and it dooms you to failure .

[Paradis]

You’re not married, are you.  

[Augustiniak]

10 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

That is as honest a post you will find on this site. None of us do.

That is why the portion that fans are not exposed to (talking football with the athlete, understanding their grasps of systems and the game, along with general demeanor) are so important. And it is why certain talent evaluators often hit upon more picks than others.

i would not be surprised if douglas concludes that fields is not his guy, and trades out to atlanta, detroit or carolina.  if douglas doesn't covet fields, i think these other teams will.  stafford and ryan can't lead their teams to the playoffs and it's obvious.  carolina could see fields as the ideal cam replacement.  so yeah i think douglas can get a haul for the 2 pick if he wants.  but even if he trades back to 4 there's no guarantee he gets wilson, assuming that's who he's targeting.  is trey lance the answer?  does he trade for a vet and use all these picks on non qbs?  

[jetblue95]

On 1/3/2021 at 5:42 PM, Defense Wins Championships said:

 

 

Example: 

QB: Justin Fields. 

LT: Mekhi Becton. 

LG: Joe Thuney. 

Center: Josh Myers. 

RG: Trey Smith. 

WR 1: Allen Robinson. 

Slot: Rondale Moore.

WR 2: Denzel Mims. 

WR 4: Jamison Crowded. 

RB: Najee Harris. 

That's a young offense that many of us could get excited over come Sunday's. 

 

 

 

 

 

i'm not sure i agree with using most of our resources (draft picks and FA $) on just the offense.  and while this looks nice on paper, i'm not sure fields (or lawrence, or wilson) will have much success without someone lining up at RT ?

[LockeJET]

The Offense will be so good we won't even need a right tackle?

[Defense Wins Championships]

40 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

i'm not sure i agree with using most of our resources (draft picks and FA $) on just the offense.  and while this looks nice on paper, i'm not sure fields (or lawrence, or wilson) will have much success without someone lining up at RT ?

Well I didn't include either of RT or TE because I'm not sold on Fant/Herndon etc (hopefully JD has a better plan than me). 

[JetBlue]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Drafting Fields will show the continued level of incompetence of this organization.

Care to elaborate?  Fields has been considered 1b to Lawrence 1a since High School.  He is has put up awesome numbers, takes care of the football, is a tremendous athlete with a very good arm.  Extremely mobile and has a good head on his shoulders. From all appearances he is a humble hard working kid.   What is your major issue with him?  

[sec101row23]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Unreal.  Harassed me for months over my support for Fields, following my every post and neg rep'ing any time I gave Fields love, tagging me anytime Fields had an incompletion, telling me I'm an idiot and know nothing about Football for supporting him...for months this happened, months....and now he's onboard, pathetic.

You know damn well he has a hundred Zach Wilson pictures and stats all ready to go if Fields plays poorly Monday night.  Book it.  

[Defense Wins Championships]

25 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

You know damn well he has a hundred Zach Wilson pictures and stats all ready to go if Fields plays poorly Monday night.  Book it.  

Fk no. At the very least I'd go back to wanting Penei Sewell and wait until 2022 in order to draft a 1st round QB while giving James Morgan a shot ??

But sorry. I can't root for drafting a kid only 21 with already two shoulder surgeries and has proven nothing against any type of NCAA competition and his season last year before covid was absolutely HORRIBLE; I tried to get behind Wilson after missing out on TL but I just couldn't. 

Before 

Started to troll my every Lawrence post while absolutely crapping all over Lawrence I've always considered Fields as a future star @ QB and mentioned how the team who picks 2nd would be getting a great talent in Fields however after Giffy started to troll me i just wanted to give him a taste of his own medicine but come Clemson vs. Ohio State? I was rooting my heart out for JF and it was fun. I hope he lights up Alabama too and even if not I'll still be convinced Fields over Sewell. 

[FidelioJet]

33 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Care to elaborate?  Fields has been considered 1b to Lawrence 1a since High School.  He is has put up awesome numbers, takes care of the football, is a tremendous athlete with a very good arm.  Extremely mobile and has a good head on his shoulders. From all appearances he is a humble hard working kid.   What is your major issue with him?  

He does seem like a very good with a good attitude and he seems to be a very good athlete.  With that said, I've watched him enough and I've watched enough football to have my opinion to see what he is - he's not top 10 NFL QB material.

But if you need something tangible. 

1) His decision making isn't fast enough

2) His accuracy hasn't shown me the ability to hit NFL Open receivers.

Granted at OSU his receivers are rarely covered and he has all the time in the world so he doesn't have to make quick decisions - so I can be wrong....but I just haven't seen "It" from him, 

3) His throwing motion/big wind up scares the heck out of me (I don't love his arm strength either)