Scott Dierking Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: He does seem like a very good with a good attitude and he seems to be a very good athlete. With that said, I've watched him enough and I've watched enough football to have my opinion to see what he is - he's not top 10 NFL QB material. But if you need something tangible. 1) His decision making isn't fast enough 2) His accuracy hasn't shown me the ability to hit NFL Open receivers. Granted at OSU his receivers are rarely covered and he has all the time in the world so he doesn't have to make quick decisions - so I can be wrong....but I just haven't seen "It" from him, 3) His throwing motion/big wind up scares the heck out of me (I don't love his arm strength either) Interesting, and I respect your opinion here. Just curious, what metric are you using to analyze his arm strength. I have watched him in probably 15 games and never came away with that conclusion. I always felt that he has driven the ball very well. I know that he could throw 75 yards as a senior in high school, was also a pitcher (with has shown to help some other qbs) and rarely has a a defender jump his balls. As well, his completion percentage is pretty impressive. Not sure how that will transfer to "open NFL receivers". He has fit the ball in some pretty tight windows art times from my view. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: He does seem like a very good with a good attitude and he seems to be a very good athlete. With that said, I've watched him enough and I've watched enough football to have my opinion to see what he is - he's not top 10 NFL QB material. But if you need something tangible. 1) His decision making isn't fast enough 2) His accuracy hasn't shown me the ability to hit NFL Open receivers. Granted at OSU his receivers are rarely covered and he has all the time in the world so he doesn't have to make quick decisions - so I can be wrong....but I just haven't seen "It" from him, 3) His throwing motion/big wind up scares the heck out of me (I don't love his arm strength either) If you don't love his arm strength, whose arm strength do you love in the draft? He looks like he can really sling it to me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPitch Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Guilhermezmc said: I love It, great Draft the defense can wait. I didnt read the entire thing but how can u draft fields AND najee? Its either or. or is this thread only about listing your dream team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, slimjasi said: If you don't love his arm strength, whose arm strength do you love in the draft? He looks like he can really sling it to me. TL and ZW. I am definitely in the minority of his arm strength but when I watch him it just doesn't jump out at me like when I watch some of the others. Maybe it's the slow release - bigger wind up that makes it seems slower to me. I'm just going off my view when I watch him play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 27 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: He does seem like a very good with a good attitude and he seems to be a very good athlete. With that said, I've watched him enough and I've watched enough football to have my opinion to see what he is - he's not top 10 NFL QB material. But if you need something tangible. 1) His decision making isn't fast enough 2) His accuracy hasn't shown me the ability to hit NFL Open receivers. Granted at OSU his receivers are rarely covered and he has all the time in the world so he doesn't have to make quick decisions - so I can be wrong....but I just haven't seen "It" from him, 3) His throwing motion/big wind up scares the heck out of me (I don't love his arm strength either) Granted I fully disagree with everything in this post, it is still legit bizarre to me how anyone could have this take and not have the same exact take for Trevor Lawrence. Fields has arguably shown more in every single category and the same critique of OSU applies to Clemson expect more so because TL system is all one read, screens and swings and everything is based on run after the catch vs. scanning the field and attacking vertically and you literally saw this play out plainly yet again just the other night. weird but respect your opinion 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 20 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Interesting, and I respect your opinion here. Just curious, what metric are you using to analyze his arm strength. I have watched him in probably 15 games and never came away with that conclusion. I always felt that he has driven the ball very well. I know that he could throw 75 yards as a senior in high school, was also a pitcher (with has shown to help some other qbs) and rarely has a a defender jump his balls. As well, his completion percentage is pretty impressive. Not sure how that will transfer to "open NFL receivers". He has fit the ball in some pretty tight windows art times from my view. I just mentioned this in the previous post. It's not bad - it's better than Sams for instance...and I've stated I can be wrong about that for sure. Just when I see him play his arm doesn't jump out at me as special. Maybe it is the bigger wind up that makes it seem slower. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, JiF said: Granted I fully disagree with everything in this post, it is still legit bizarre to me how anyone could have this take and not have the same exact take for Trevor Lawrence. Fields has arguably shown more in every single category and the same critique of OSU applies to Clemson expect more so because TL system is all one read, screens and swings and everything is based on run after the catch vs. scanning the field and attacking vertically and you literally saw this play out plainly yet again just the other night. weird but respect your opinion I agree, a lot of the same concerns arise when talking about TL. But when you're looking to try and find that allusive FQB - as you know stats and tangibles only go so far. Sometimes it's just the eye-test. TL just seems to play the game smoothly and things just seem to be slower for him - which, IMHO, is what, more than anything else, really separates the two. To be clear.. I like Zach Wilson better than Fields too (quite possibly better than TL right now too) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: I just mentioned this in the previous post. It's not bad - it's better than Sams for instance...and I've stated I can be wrong about that for sure. Just when I see him play his arm doesn't jump out at me as special. Maybe it is the bigger wind up that makes it seem slower. he does have a bit of a wind up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: I agree, a lot of the same concerns arise when talking about TL. But when you're looking to try and find that allusive FQB - as you know stats and tangibles only go so far. Sometimes it's just the eye-test. TL just seems to play the game smoothly and things just seem to be slower for him - which, IMHO, is what, more than anything else, really separates the two. To be clear.. I like Zach Wilson better than Fields too (quite possibly better than TL right now too) Agree to disagree. Lawrence is just eye candy, he's not doing anything better or at a higher level then either of these guys if you really peel back the onion and I dont what intangibles TL has that Fields doesnt. Both all world athlete, both winners, both top High School prospects, both highly productive and efficient QB's, both leaders, clearly both are big gamers, Fields more so then Lawrence, Fields has an Ivey league brain,..so just not sure what intangibles you could see in TL other than (6'6, big, strong, white) that you dont see in Fields. What I saw the other night was a big a mopey whiny guy vs. a big balls big moment player...but, like I said, we can agree to disagree. And once again, I'm not making claims about who is better then who, I just dont get it. That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, JiF said: What I saw the other night was a big a mopey whiny guy vs. a big balls big moment player...but, like I said, we can agree to disagree. And once again, I'm not making claims about who is better then who, I just dont get it. That's all. Not comparing talent but TL reminds me a bit of Mike Glennon.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Had Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, Savage69 said: Not comparing talent but TL reminds me a bit of Mike Glennon.. they darn sure don't look alike...Glennon's has a 5'6" body with a 12" neck...lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guilhermezmc Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 58 minutes ago, HighPitch said: I didnt read the entire thing but how can u draft fields AND najee? Its either or. or is this thread only about listing your dream team? What Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 I agree, a lot of the same concerns arise when talking about TL. But when you're looking to try and find that allusive FQB - as you know stats and tangibles only go so far. Sometimes it's just the eye-test. TL just seems to play the game smoothly and things just seem to be slower for him - which, IMHO, is what, more than anything else, really separates the two. To be clear.. I like Zach Wilson better than Fields too (quite possibly better than TL right now too) I think I still like TL better ... but there is no denying Wilson is the purest passer w/ the most arm talent. I agree with Fields having a bit of an elongated throwing motion ... but he still is elite (probably more creative)I'd be happy with any of the three ... but in this order ...1. Lawrence2A. Wilson2B. FieldsSent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCJet Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 22 hours ago, sec101row23 said: It really depends on the program. So many offenses are solely called from the sideline, that’s why you see teams line up and then look over at the sidelines for the call. Some QBs have no control pre snap, they run the play as called from the sideline. I don’t know how much leeway Fields has the LOS, just by watching I would assume he does have some ability to check out of certain situations. I can’t speak to the specifics of OSU’s offense. I do have much more insight into Clemson’s offense and how they allow the QB to make necessary changes. I can tell you that Trevor has far more pre snap responsibilities this year than he had his freshman a year. It really depends on how the coaches teach the pre snap keys. Some will simply have the QB count the number of defenders in the box, some use motion to ID man or zone and make the call from there, some will count how many players are on either side of the hash’s. It depends on the philosophy. I do worry that I think the OSU offense is called from the sidelines. Im sure other posters would know better as im not an OSU expert, but I do think they call a lot from the sideline. Theres a lot of good stuff in this thread, so I agree with and some that I dont, but I think the overwhelming this is how difficult this is. We continually hear about anticipation and "throwing guys open" and the one QB who had a ton of anticipation was Sam and it now turns out that he struggles to make simple reads and see the field aside from the 1 or 2 plays a game he makes that happen to be very instinctual. JD needs to evaluate these guys individual talents, work ethic and then figure out how to develop them into NFL Passers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 1 hour ago, BCJet said: I do worry that I think the OSU offense is called from the sidelines. Im sure other posters would know better as im not an OSU expert, but I do think they call a lot from the sideline. Theres a lot of good stuff in this thread, so I agree with and some that I dont, but I think the overwhelming this is how difficult this is. We continually hear about anticipation and "throwing guys open" and the one QB who had a ton of anticipation was Sam and it now turns out that he struggles to make simple reads and see the field aside from the 1 or 2 plays a game he makes that happen to be very instinctual. JD needs to evaluate these guys individual talents, work ethic and then figure out how to develop them into NFL Passers. This all goes back to how the QB processes information, and also how he is being coached to do so. As far as Sam goes, his issues stem from a total lack of confidence and an overwhelming fear of making mistakes IMO. He’s a different guy than he was as a rookie. I have no idea what Gase may be telling him or how he is coaching him, but there are serious issues with what Sam is seeing and him reacting to it. The reason Sam seems better off script and outside the pocket is that he thinks less in those situations and plays a little more free. As far as the possible QBs in the draft, you’re not going to find out these things until you get them under center. You can watch every throw of Trevor, Justin and Zach and see so many similar situations. None of these guys are throwing into tight windows on a regular basis, no college QB does, it’s just the nature of the game. People will pick their horse in this race and then have their reasons for doing so, but ultimately from a talent perspective, there isn’t a huge difference between the 3 of them. It will come down to who can grasp a playbook and who can process information the quickest. I’m not sure anyone can tell you one way or another that so and so can or can not do this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: This all goes back to how the QB processes information, and also how he is being coached to do so. As far as Sam goes, his issues stem from a total lack of confidence and an overwhelming fear of making mistakes IMO. He’s a different guy than he was as a rookie. I have no idea what Gase may be telling him or how he is coaching him, but there are serious issues with what Sam is seeing and him reacting to it. The reason Sam seems better off script and outside the pocket is that he thinks less in those situations and plays a little more free. As far as the possible QBs in the draft, you’re not going to find out these things until you get them under center. You can watch every throw of Trevor, Justin and Zach and see so many similar situations. None of these guys are throwing into tight windows on a regular basis, no college QB does, it’s just the nature of the game. People will pick their horse in this race and then have their reasons for doing so, but ultimately from a talent perspective, there isn’t a huge difference between the 3 of them. It will come down to who can grasp a playbook and who can process information the quickest. I’m not sure anyone can tell you one way or another that so and so can or can not do this. I think the reason that Darnold seems to be better when rolling out, is that he only has to see half the field then. It allows him to process less. Confidence, as you said is also a large problem. It has been said numerous times, but the lack of motion in Gase's offense was baffling. He could have helped the kid so much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Doesn't it all come down to whether JD and the new coach think Fields or Wilson is better than Sam? Sounds crazy, I know, but in the end that's what matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 5 hours ago, Dunnie said: I think I still like TL better ... but there is no denying Wilson is the purest passer w/ the most arm talent. I agree with Fields having a bit of an elongated throwing motion ... but he still is elite (probably more creative) I'd be happy with any of the three ... but in this order ... 1. Lawrence 2A. Wilson 2B. Fields Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app I’m in full agreement with this assessment. I think I was being a bit too harsh on fields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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