Jim Harbaugh possibly interested in Jets?

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Hope they get it right this time and Harbaugh would’ve flopped, because the only positive at all to hiring Gase had been the firing of Maccagnan since afterwards which led to the hiring of his buddy Douglas. Now Douglas seems to be the impediment to not hiring the HC that Woody had been chasing for years. 

If we don’t hire a winner here, we’d have been better off letting Maccagnan ride out a failure 2019 season, and perhaps find a different GM after he got fired in January. It would’ve happened by then after his last saving grace (Darnold) still looked like nothing, his next #3 pick DT pick looked like a whiff as a rookie, his high 3rd round edge rusher wouldn’t have been cut before his rookie season but would’ve shown how bad he is during that year. Oh yeah, and Le’veon Bell flopping, Osemele turning out to be damaged goods, and more. So he’d have been fired after the season anyway.

Just saying, on top of his multitude of GM mistakes (even with his GM hits, like a couple good trades) the great Douglas hire may lead to extended investment in Darnold and missing out on the HC in Harbaugh Woody’d have hired by now.

Just figuring it’s a safe bet any HC Woody would’ve hired on his own is by definition a bad hire, and Douglas saved him (and us) from a big name but an ultimately bad hire in Harbaugh. Hope this is the case. Time will tell, and we’ll see the new HC’s name soon enough. But I’m just throwing this out there.

Do we know that Harbaugh actually wanted to leave?  Or, was this a pure leverage play from him.

Pretty sweet gig he's got there, keeps getting paid to be an abject failure at his one job - beating Ohio State.

[Jetster]

The only thing this tells me is Harbaugh would rather be heckled by a few pimply college kids than crazy Jet fans cursing him with their veins popping out of their necks. He just took the easier route for half the money. He's turned into a soft pussy, it's a blessing in disguise. 

[Sonny Werblin]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

More likely he's letting his GM make the choice, and he just wants veto power in case JD recommends someone Woody thinks will be a PR embarrassment (which is unlikely to happen). Isn't this what we said we wanted? I know it's what I wanted. 

Seems if Woody was calling the shots on the HC hire that Harbaugh would have already received an offer. Woody has/had reportedly wanted JH for some time. 

Everyone in Florham Park is not oblivious to what we every fan can read re: Harbaugh/Michigan. If he was gettable to coach the Jets then this one is on Douglas not Woody, and it's too early to tell whether this is a good or bad thing. 

LOL! You mean like the last guy the Johnson's hired?

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

I guess I'm just not seeing it.  The occasional, if not extremely rare, great play, has to be chalked up to luck at this point, based on how infrequent it happens.  And, frankly, many of those plays are routine for others.  The bar is so low for him at this point.

If this were true, you really believe that 3 coaching staffs, including at USC, weren't able to fix them?  They were all incompetent to fix an 'easily diagnosable and fixable' issue?

Occam's Razor, my (football) guy.

Plus the guy spent all off season working with Palmer , either he's denser than a potato or just doesn't have the drive and fortitude to make the necessary changes. 

[56mehl56]

6 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

Anybody have any news as to when the Jets would be interviewing Harbaugh?

The 1st of Nevurary. 

[Chrebetfan80]

20 minutes ago, football guy said:

I think you missed the point. Most of his issues are easily diagnosable and fixable. The question that remains: once “fixed”, how good can he truly be? I hate comparing other players but Alex Smith reached his potential. It took him 7-8 years, but that Alex Smith was the best Alex Smith we were going to see, despite all his athletic abilities. Sure maybe he would’ve had greater confidence and production had he been “fixed” at a younger age (i.e. coached properly), but him in KC/WAS was the absolute best version of himself when you factor in his abilities/limitations. Mike Vick, same thing. The best athlete isn’t the best football player. Talent doesn’t dictate ceiling; talent dictates gameplanning (both your team and the opponent). 

So that’s the question. Forget about where Darnold was drafted. Is his ceiling a game manager who possesses a gun-slinger/playmaker mentality off-script (think Ryan Fitzpatrick) or is he a put-the-team-on-your-back “franchise caliber” QB. Or is he somewhere in between (think Ryan Tannehill-level). That’s the question the Jets are asking themselves.

I believe if fixed, because of his turnover penchant he can be a top 15 QB in this league.  I have a hard time seeing the full put the team on your back franchise caliber guy when I look at him right now and evaluate him, although admittedly the tools are there for that.  I think mentally I have not seen enough to put that in my mind.  As of what I have seen I think he can be a better Tannehill, best case scenario he turns out to be like Dak Prescott i think. 

[Sonny Werblin]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

Plus the guy spent all off season working with Palmer , either he's denser than a potato or just doesn't have the drive and fortitude to make the necessary changes. 

Yes, you just can't blame Gase for everything.  At some point, if you put in the work and have the talent, you play well regardless of your team's coach,

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Plus the guy spent all off season working with Palmer , either he's denser than a potato or just doesn't have the drive and fortitude to make the necessary changes. 

I don't love the Sam Darnold is dumb stuff.  Is he smart?  Probably not.  But, it doesn't acknowledge one aspect of this that's really important:

This sh*t is hard.  There's like 15 people on the planet who can do it well, maybe.  Frankly, just playing the odds, we should expect that Sam Darnold can't.  It's not crazy to think that a guy with a bunch of question marks in college didn't pan out in the pros.

But that's why there's no reason to make all these excuses.  Sam Darnold not being a great NFL QB makes him like everyone but 15 people on earth.

[jetblue95]

3 minutes ago, Jetster said:

The only thing this tells me is Harbaugh would rather be heckled by a few pimply college kids than crazy Jet fans cursing him with their veins popping out of their necks. He just took the easier route for half the money. He's turned into a soft pussy, it's a blessing in disguise. 

 

lol, you have no clue the infighting and angst the head coach of a program like michigan faces.  trust me, the fan base is just as passionate and there are as many lunatics there as there are jets fans.  and instead of one owner, you are dealing with many rich and powerful constituencies (big time donors and alumni).  it's not just a bunch of "pimply college kids".

you also have no understanding at what winning at your alma mater means to a person like jim harbaugh.

 

[56mehl56]

3 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

lol, you have no clue the infighting and angst the head coach of a program like michigan faces.  trust me, the fan base is just as passionate and there are as many lunatics there as there are jets fans.  and instead of one owner, you are dealing with many rich and powerful constituencies (big time donors and alumni).  it's not just a bunch of "pimply college kids".

you also have no understanding at what winning at your alma mater means to a person like jim harbaugh.

 

Maybe some day he'll find out ?

[jetblue95]

2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Maybe some day he'll find out ?

 

well played

[varjet]

I think at this point JD gets to hire the coach and they are a four year package, with the HC and GM back in alignment.  
 

If the Jets are looking competitive by 2023 at the latest (or if another two year trainwreck like the Gase experience), JD as GM and the HC both go. 

[football guy]

27 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I guess I'm just not seeing it.  The occasional, if not extremely rare, great play, has to be chalked up to luck at this point, based on how infrequent it happens.  And, frankly, many of those plays are routine for others.  The bar is so low for him at this point.

If this were true, you really believe that 3 coaching staffs, including at USC, weren't able to fix them?  They were all incompetent to fix an 'easily diagnosable and fixable' issue?

Occam's Razor, my (football) guy.

Every offense he's been in has required complex, full-field reads dating back to his days at USC. None of them really fit his skill-set either. At USC and under Gase, they had a plan that was always abandoned by Darnold, and he flashed outside of structure. No credit should go to USC coaches for Darnold's collegian performance and if anything, I think they are to blame for not making him an Andrew Luck-caliber prospect. That's how good he could've been if tutored by a real offensive staff that understood his talent and built around it back when he was 17. 

The one coach that minimized the burden placed on Darnold and maximized his play given the talent he had was Jeremy Bates'. His offense was vanilla and certainly asked more of Darnold than some of the modern offenses do, but it was a perfect fit. Darnold had his struggles in his rookie year, however, he was a far more fluid QB then than he has been the past 2 years. Stats don't matter; the film does. Later in the season, he was executing what the offense asked him to do perfectly, even outperforming Aaron Rodgers and Deshaun Watson in the process. Bates made Darnold comfortable by calling a lot of quick-passing, quick-progressions (if 1 not there hit 2), cut the field in half, lots of play-action, lots of designed pocket movement, they let him trust his playmakers and attack the guy whose in 1-on-1, and most importantly his mechanics and footwork were sound. Not a heavy emphasis on route development, not too heavy an emphasis on trying to confuse the defense as much as just trying to beat them. None of that has really existed in Gase's offense. Bates coached Darnold hard and basically was like "don't ask questions just trust me". Gase sought to teach Darnold the game from a cerebral level, and the competitor in Darnold probably liked that... he probably wanted all the burden and responsibilities that Bates was unwilling to give him, but ultimately as a young, inexperienced QB he did not have the capacity to do all that Gase's offense required him to do PLUS maintain a heavy focus on his footwork and mechanics. There's only so many hours in the day. 

With that said, I'm sure he's certainly developed the mental aspect of the game - understanding protections, understanding coverages, route combinations, etc.  But becoming a smarter, more experienced QB doesn't make you a better QB. He lost his fluidity. He has lost his footwork. He was playing confused most of the time and as a result, his processing slowed. He hasn't lost his pocket awareness - it's regressed but not lost. He hasn't become timid; he escapes a little early sometimes, but that's mainly because he feels most natural when on the move. He still keeps his eyes downfield. His instincts are still there. 

 

What a coach needs to do is come in and build off of what Jeremy Bates started while adding some exotic wrinkles. RPOs. Spread concepts. Utilize his legs both as a passer and a runner. Implement more designed pocket movement and half-field reads. Develop a strong run game that way play-action is effective. Work on Darnold's play-fakes (Sanchez was a master at them). And most importantly, FOOTWORK AND HIPS! 

Once all that happens, Darnold will be productive. He will always make some mistakes- that's the gunslinger in him. Good coaching will allow him to see the field better and minimize those mistakes.

Then the question becomes what caliber starting QB will he become? Ryan Fitzpatrick or Tony Romo. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

Do we know that Harbaugh actually wanted to leave?  Or, was this a pure leverage play from him.

Pretty sweet gig he's got there, keeps getting paid to be an abject failure at his one job - beating Ohio State.

No, and I did include "if he was gettable" in my other post.

I do think the abject failure thing is a bit strong, considering the 2 teams aren't equal independent of the HC.

I'm not close to a Harbaugh-only guy, but criticisms like that are a bit much for me. Most of the winning in college seems to be about recruiting the best HS students as much as anything else. Yes coaching matters - a lot - but coaches can be more conservative or aggressive based on their roster talent as much as an innate nature.

Reid's a good example; most seasons he's throwing the ball a good 20% more with Mahomes than he did with Alex Smith. Similar inverse proportion with both KC and Phi when his defense was giving up more vs fewer points. I don't find this surprising. Also Coach Reid was Coach Also-Ran for years until he drafted Mahomes, whose career path is on its way to being the best QB in history. Now he's the best coaching mind in the game. Go figure, right?

I don't have a name I'm rooting for. A few of these guys seem like they'd be good hires; others seem to be a bit too unproven standing on their own feet (which, incidentally, Reid was as well when he was first promoted to HC). 

Anyway I take for granted he'd have an easier go of it coaching at OSU than Michigan. How much easier is anyone's guess, but perhaps OSU would still be beating Michigan with the coach names reversed. Maybe not, but any recent Michigan victory over OSU would have been an upset, no?

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

9 minutes ago, football guy said:

Every offense he's been in has required complex, full-field reads dating back to his days at USC. None of them really fit his skill-set either. At USC and under Gase, they had a plan that was always abandoned by Darnold, and he flashed outside of structure. No credit should go to USC coaches for Darnold's collegian performance and if anything, I think they are to blame for not making him an Andrew Luck-caliber prospect. That's how good he could've been if tutored by a real offensive staff that understood his talent and built around it back when he was 17. 

The one coach that minimized the burden placed on Darnold and maximized his play given the talent he had was Jeremy Bates'. His offense was vanilla and certainly asked more of Darnold than some of the modern offenses do, but it was a perfect fit. Darnold had his struggles in his rookie year, however, he was a far more fluid QB then than he has been the past 2 years. Stats don't matter; the film does. Later in the season, he was executing what the offense asked him to do perfectly, even outperforming Aaron Rodgers and Deshaun Watson in the process. Bates made Darnold comfortable by calling a lot of quick-passing, quick-progressions (if 1 not there hit 2), cut the field in half, lots of play-action, lots of designed pocket movement, they let him trust his playmakers and attack the guy whose in 1-on-1, and most importantly his mechanics and footwork were sound. Not a heavy emphasis on route development, not too heavy an emphasis on trying to confuse the defense as much as just trying to beat them. None of that has really existed in Gase's offense. Bates coached Darnold hard and basically was like "don't ask questions just trust me". Gase sought to teach Darnold the game from a cerebral level, and the competitor in Darnold probably liked that... he probably wanted all the burden and responsibilities that Bates was unwilling to give him, but ultimately as a young, inexperienced QB he did not have the capacity to do all that Gase's offense required him to do PLUS maintain a heavy focus on his footwork and mechanics. There's only so many hours in the day. 

With that said, I'm sure he's certainly developed the mental aspect of the game - understanding protections, understanding coverages, route combinations, etc.  But becoming a smarter, more experienced QB doesn't make you a better QB. He lost his fluidity. He has lost his footwork. He was playing confused most of the time and as a result, his processing slowed. He hasn't lost his pocket awareness - it's regressed but not lost. He hasn't become timid; he escapes a little early sometimes, but that's mainly because he feels most natural when on the move. He still keeps his eyes downfield. His instincts are still there. 

 

What a coach needs to do is come in and build off of what Jeremy Bates started while adding some exotic wrinkles. RPOs. Spread concepts. Utilize his legs both as a passer and a runner. Implement more designed pocket movement and half-field reads. Develop a strong run game that way play-action is effective. Work on Darnold's play-fakes (Sanchez was a master at them). And most importantly, FOOTWORK AND HIPS! 

Once all that happens, Darnold will be productive. He will always make some mistakes- that's the gunslinger in him. Good coaching will allow him to see the field better and minimize those mistakes.

Then the question becomes what caliber starting QB will he become? Ryan Fitzpatrick or Tony Romo. 

Words aren't going to magically turn San Darnold into a good quarterback. It's not like people haven't been trying.

[ZachEY]

12 minutes ago, football guy said:

Every offense he's been in has required complex, full-field reads dating back to his days at USC. None of them really fit his skill-set either. At USC and under Gase, they had a plan that was always abandoned by Darnold, and he flashed outside of structure. No credit should go to USC coaches for Darnold's collegian performance and if anything, I think they are to blame for not making him an Andrew Luck-caliber prospect. That's how good he could've been if tutored by a real offensive staff that understood his talent and built around it back when he was 17. 

The one coach that minimized the burden placed on Darnold and maximized his play given the talent he had was Jeremy Bates'. His offense was vanilla and certainly asked more of Darnold than some of the modern offenses do, but it was a perfect fit. Darnold had his struggles in his rookie year, however, he was a far more fluid QB then than he has been the past 2 years. Stats don't matter; the film does. Later in the season, he was executing what the offense asked him to do perfectly, even outperforming Aaron Rodgers and Deshaun Watson in the process. Bates made Darnold comfortable by calling a lot of quick-passing, quick-progressions (if 1 not there hit 2), cut the field in half, lots of play-action, lots of designed pocket movement, they let him trust his playmakers and attack the guy whose in 1-on-1, and most importantly his mechanics and footwork were sound. Not a heavy emphasis on route development, not too heavy an emphasis on trying to confuse the defense as much as just trying to beat them. None of that has really existed in Gase's offense. Bates coached Darnold hard and basically was like "don't ask questions just trust me". Gase sought to teach Darnold the game from a cerebral level, and the competitor in Darnold probably liked that... he probably wanted all the burden and responsibilities that Bates was unwilling to give him, but ultimately as a young, inexperienced QB he did not have the capacity to do all that Gase's offense required him to do PLUS maintain a heavy focus on his footwork and mechanics. There's only so many hours in the day. 

With that said, I'm sure he's certainly developed the mental aspect of the game - understanding protections, understanding coverages, route combinations, etc.  But becoming a smarter, more experienced QB doesn't make you a better QB. He lost his fluidity. He has lost his footwork. He was playing confused most of the time and as a result, his processing slowed. He hasn't lost his pocket awareness - it's regressed but not lost. He hasn't become timid; he escapes a little early sometimes, but that's mainly because he feels most natural when on the move. He still keeps his eyes downfield. His instincts are still there. 

 

What a coach needs to do is come in and build off of what Jeremy Bates started while adding some exotic wrinkles. RPOs. Spread concepts. Utilize his legs both as a passer and a runner. Implement more designed pocket movement and half-field reads. Develop a strong run game that way play-action is effective. Work on Darnold's play-fakes (Sanchez was a master at them). And most importantly, FOOTWORK AND HIPS! 

Once all that happens, Darnold will be productive. He will always make some mistakes- that's the gunslinger in him. Good coaching will allow him to see the field better and minimize those mistakes.

Then the question becomes what caliber starting QB will he become? Ryan Fitzpatrick or Tony Romo. 

This is a wildly optimistic POV, based on what we've seen.

I suppose all that's left to say is, "we'll see."

I certainly have my doubts.

[jetblue95]

reports are harbaugh is going to hire ravens LB coach mike macdonald (which doobie do you be) to be his new DC once the ravens season ends.  don't think jim would be looking to poach his brother's staff if he didn't intend to stay at michigan

[ZachEY]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No, and I did include "if he was gettable" in my other post.

I do think the abject failure thing is a bit strong, considering the 2 teams aren't equal independent of the HC.

I'm not close to a Harbaugh-only guy, but criticisms like that are a bit much for me. Most of the winning in college seems to be about recruiting the best HS students as much as anything else. Yes coaching matters - a lot - but coaches can be more conservative or aggressive based on their roster talent as much as an innate nature.

Reid's a good example; most seasons he's throwing the ball a good 20% more with Mahomes than he did with Alex Smith. Similar inverse proportion with both KC and Phi when his defense was giving up more vs fewer points. I don't find this surprising. Also Coach Reid was Coach Also-Ran for years until he drafted Mahomes, whose career path is on its way to being the best QB in history. Now he's the best coaching mind in the game. Go figure, right?

I don't have a name I'm rooting for. A few of these guys seem like they'd be good hires; others seem to be a bit too unproven standing on their own feet (which, incidentally, Reid was as well when he was first promoted to HC). 

Anyway I take for granted he'd have an easier go of it coaching at OSU than Michigan. How much easier is anyone's guess, but perhaps OSU would still be beating Michigan with the coach names reversed. Maybe not, but any recent Michigan victory over OSU would have been an upset, no?

In general, no, they are not the same.  But, the rivalry still exists, and he apparently doesn't need to win.  Expectations are, in that sense, lower, which is my point.

Also, in the years where it was closer: 

2015 Michigan was 10, OSU was 8, he was blown out.

2016 Michigan was 3, OSU was 2, he lost in OT.

2018 Michigan was 4, OSU was 10, he was blown out.

So, still not great.

[flgreen]

7 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

reports are harbaugh is going to hire ravens LB coach mike macdonald (which doobie do you be) to be his new DC once the ravens season ends.  don't think jim would be looking to poach his brother's staff if he didn't intend to stay at michigan

Not sure I agree.  In my experience brothers, ahile they love one another,  are highly competitive.  Can't sit to well with Jim what happene in the Super Bowl

[jetblue95]

Just now, flgreen said:

Not sure I agree.  In my experience brothers are highly competitive.  Can't sit to well with Jim what happene in the Super Bowl

 

based on what i know of the harbaugh brothers, john is completely onboard with this move

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

According to the internet Harbaugh's contract signing is eminent and an announcement is expected today.

So, what if there is no announcement today?

Then he signs

tonight or tomorrow or whenever?  He’s not ready for a NFL return or no one is interested 

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, jetblue95 said:

 

lol, you have no clue the infighting and angst the head coach of a program like michigan faces.  trust me, the fan base is just as passionate and there are as many lunatics there as there are jets fans.  and instead of one owner, you are dealing with many rich and powerful constituencies (big time donors and alumni).  it's not just a bunch of "pimply college kids".

you also have no understanding at what winning at your alma mater means to a person like jim harbaugh.

 

Well, considering that supposedly many alumni & donors want him out but they just have him another cool 20 million, can’t be all that bad can it? 
People think ? these people worry more than they do, the guy probably has 30 million in the bank! Once your set up like that (similar to polititions) you don’t give a f*ck what people think! 
Think of Trumaine Johnson as an example. 

[choon328]

3 hours ago, jetblue95 said:

 

that's not how it works.  the athletic department is self funding.  it doesn't dip into the endowment to fund deficits.  the AD laid off people due to lost revenues caused by covid.  football (and to a lesser degree bball) is the engine that supports all the non-revenue generating sports.  while michigan is certainly better positioned to weather the storm than most other athletic departments, these are real loses and real people have been losing jobs.

Let's just call it as it is, they're being cheap and firing real people instead of dipping into endowment money to make it work. It's not shocking that a large entity would sh*t on the people that work for them. 

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

45 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

In general, no, they are not the same.  But, the rivalry still exists, and he apparently doesn't need to win.  Expectations are, in that sense, lower, which is my point.

Also, in the years where it was closer: 

2015 Michigan was 10, OSU was 8, he was blown out.

2016 Michigan was 3, OSU was 2, he lost in OT.

2018 Michigan was 4, OSU was 10, he was blown out.

So, still not great.

Could also be that they got a more generous rank at the time of their matchups. Also I think it's affected by how recently they let one slip by. e.g. if OSU lost to Purdue game 1 instead of game 8 (like Michigan), their rank is better than 10 (they were ranked #2 heading into that game). Seems they were a dominant team who played down to their opponents' levels a couple times. 

I feel like I'm in a position I didn't intend to get into (defending Harbaugh's tenure at Michigan, which I have followed for exactly zero minutes since he was hired), so I'm just going by what I see on paper which of course doesn't tell the whole story. That said,

• I'm looking at eventual NFL talent on his roster and there isn't much there on offense, which is presumably more his forte as a coach than D. A few starting interior linemen drafted 2016-2020 and that's it; not one NFL starter-quality QB, RB, WR, TE, or T was NFL-worthy in his first 5 seasons, whether his team's ranks were deserved or generous. Compare that to OSU and the word "lopsided" would come to mind. They had enough QB talent to keep Joe Burrow as a backup, and then after Haskins is drafted then Fields magically appears so they don't miss a beat.
• Even on defense -- Michigan was hardly talent-starved for NFL talent, but it's dwarfed by the OSU alumni in the NFL (2 vs 7 top-20 overall selections on defense over the same span). So, apples & apples? Not so much.
• They went 8-5 in 2017, which was considered a big letdown for Michigan I'm sure, but then you see from that roster to the 2018 draft saw exactly one late-3rd round center and a 5th round DT. The talent was probably far worse than fans (and sportswriters) realized when the season started.
• 2018 -- rank aside, just looking at some of their graduating/draft-eligible players, 6 of OSU's starters on offense were drafted in 2019. Plus Nick Bosa, and 2 other NFL starters. Michigan's offense sent the great Zach Gentry to the NFL. He once caught a 4-yard pass.  

Temporary rank aside, the teams don't seem equal, and one HC was making do with less a lot more than the other in these matchups. 

All that said, Harbaugh may have been a terrible hire here, clashing with the GM, clashing with players, and negatively affecting FAs with similar offers from the Jets and another team. Who knows...

[football guy]

57 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

This is a wildly optimistic POV, based on what we've seen.

I suppose all that's left to say is, "we'll see."

I certainly have my doubts.

saying Sam Darnold will be Ryan Fitzpatrick-caliber if simple implementations and changes are made is not a wildly optimistic POV. 

saying Sam Darnold will be Tony Romo-caliber if simple implementations and changes are made is a wildly optimistic POV. 

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Ranking aside, what were the point spreads? I'm not looking it up.

No idea.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, football guy said:

saying Sam Darnold will be Ryan Fitzpatrick-caliber if simple implementations and changes are made is not a wildly optimistic POV. 

saying Sam Darnold will be Tony Romo-caliber if simple implementations and changes are made is a wildly optimistic POV. 

Ok - Fine.

If your position is Sam Darnold's upside is Ryan Fitzpatrick, that really not a take I'll oppose.

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, football guy said:

I think you missed the point. Most of his issues are easily diagnosable and fixable. The question that remains: once “fixed”, how good can he truly be? I hate comparing other players but Alex Smith reached his potential. It took him 7-8 years, but that Alex Smith was the best Alex Smith we were going to see, despite all his athletic abilities. Sure maybe he would’ve had greater confidence and production had he been “fixed” at a younger age (i.e. coached properly), but him in KC/WAS was the absolute best version of himself when you factor in his abilities/limitations. Mike Vick, same thing. The best athlete isn’t the best football player. Talent doesn’t dictate ceiling; talent dictates gameplanning (both your team and the opponent). 

So that’s the question. Forget about where Darnold was drafted. Is his ceiling a game manager who possesses a gun-slinger/playmaker mentality off-script (think Ryan Fitzpatrick) or is he a put-the-team-on-your-back “franchise caliber” QB. Or is he somewhere in between (think Ryan Tannehill-level). That’s the question the Jets are asking themselves.

1) I didn't miss anything - I directly quoted a statement of yours that wasn't true. Perhaps you misworded what you intended to write but what you wrote was simply wrong. 

2) And his issues are "easily diagnosable and fixable?" Yea, I'm not buying that. If it were so easy, why did he get so much worse between last year and this year? Not all of these guys get "fixed." A good portion of them become career backups. As badly as Sam played this year, you have to figure that his confidence is shot. Maybe he develops into something better down the road, but it seems like a fresh start could do him a lot of good. 

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

I guess I'm just not seeing it.  The occasional, if not extremely rare, great play, has to be chalked up to luck at this point, based on how infrequent it happens.  And, frankly, many of those plays are routine for others.  The bar is so low for him at this point.

If this were true, you really believe that 3 coaching staffs, including at USC, weren't able to fix them?  They were all incompetent to fix an 'easily diagnosable and fixable' issue?

Occam's Razor, my (football) guy.

Bingo

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, football guy said:

saying Sam Darnold will be Ryan Fitzpatrick-caliber if simple implementations and changes are made is not a wildly optimistic POV. 

Cool, so we just have to wait around for like 6-10 years for Sam to have a big flash in the pan season or two. We've got our guy to build around!

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

1) I didn't miss anything - I directly quoted a statement of yours that wasn't true. Perhaps you misworded what you intended to write but what you wrote was simply wrong. 

2) And his issues are "easily diagnosable and fixable?" Yea, I'm not buying that. If it were so easy, why did he get so much worse between last year and this year? Not all of these guys get "fixed." A good portion of them become career backups. As badly as Sam played this year, you have to figure that his confidence is shot. Maybe he develops into something better down the road, but it seems like a fresh start could do him a lot of good. 

Bingo

increasingly i feel that 'football guy' is a jet shill who is trying to change the darnold sentiment among the jet diehards.

[jetblue95]

8 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Let's just call it as it is, they're being cheap and firing real people instead of dipping into endowment money to make it work. It's not shocking that a large entity would sh*t on the people that work for them. 

 

again, you show your ignorance

the purpose of the university is to promote education and research, not to play football.  at least it is in institutions of higher learning that take education seriously and don't prioritize winning on the field over winning in the classroom and the real world.

michigan is one of the few universities that does not take a single penny from its endowment to fund athletic programs.  in fact, the converse usually occurs and the athletic department contributes funds to help pay for needs-based scholarships for students who need financial assistance.  and i'm not talking about scholarships for athletes.

now maybe this is part of the larger "problem" why michigan doesn't compete with the ohio state's of the world.  different set of priorities these days.  you seem to favor stiffing at-need students to pay a football coach more.  as much as i want to see my alma mater win on the field, i have no problem with the priorities set by the university.

 

[Jetsfan80]

57 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

In general, no, they are not the same.  But, the rivalry still exists, and he apparently doesn't need to win.  Expectations are, in that sense, lower, which is my point.

Also, in the years where it was closer: 

2015 Michigan was 10, OSU was 8, he was blown out.

2016 Michigan was 3, OSU was 2, he lost in OT.

2018 Michigan was 4, OSU was 10, he was blown out.

So, still not great.

 

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Ranking aside, what were the point spreads? I'm not looking it up.

 

2015:  Michigan (home) was a 1.5 point favorite

2016:  Ohio State (home) was a 6.5 point favorite

2018:  Michigan (road) was a 3.5 point favorite

[jetblue95]

28 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Well, considering that supposedly many alumni & donors want him out but they just have him another cool 20 million, can’t be all that bad can it? 
People think ? these people worry more than they do, the guy probably has 30 million in the bank! Once your set up like that (similar to polititions) you don’t give a f*ck what people think! 
Think of Trumaine Johnson as an example. 

 

i'm not shedding a tear for jim harbaugh, and he would never ask for sympathy.  he knew the deal when he decided to take the job.  

i was just rebutting the asinine comment that he was "soft" because he'd rather be heckled by pimpled face college kids than jets fans 

[choon328]

12 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

again, you show your ignorance

the purpose of the university is to promote education and research, not to play football.  at least it is in institutions of higher learning that take education seriously and don't prioritize winning on the field over winning in the classroom and the real world.

michigan is one of the few universities that does not take a single penny from its endowment to fund athletic programs.  in fact, the converse usually occurs and the athletic department contributes funds to help pay for needs-based scholarships for students who need financial assistance.  and i'm not talking about scholarships for athletes.

now maybe this is part of the larger "problem" why michigan doesn't compete with the ohio state's of the world.  different set of priorities these days.  you seem to favor stiffing at-need students to pay a football coach more.  as much as i want to see my alma mater win on the field, i have no problem with the priorities set by the university.

 

 

Actually, according to Forbes, from 2016-2018 the University of Michigan made $249 million in PROFIT from the football program.  Based on available information from MSU it cost them around $1.5-$2 million per non revenue sport and I'm assuming Michigan would be similar. That number includes staff salaries, scholarships, etc.  25 non revenue sports (estimated) at $2 million each is $50 million annually.  That leaves $33 million in profit just from football annually.  That's not including the other revenue sports like basketball.  So that works out to be around $132 million in profit from football from 2016-2019. That's after paying for the other sports.  Where is that money? That's the money that should be used to keep people hired and keep non revenue sports going during times like this. 

 

And as far as Harbaugh is concerned I think they have the money and are low balling him on purpose. 

The Athletic Department said they were going to lose $26 million this past year but made over $130 million combined in profit the 4 years prior. Sorry if I'm not crying for them. 

[slimjasi]

6 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I wonder who is?

Not sure what your point is here.