pdxgreen Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 32 minutes ago, jamesr said: The reason the Johnsons moved away from this structure was because Rex didn't agree with Idzik, but wouldn't go over his head to complain to the Johnsons. In essence it gave the GM too much power. As said above, if you have the right GM / coach, this isn't an issue. But when you don't, no structure will save you. It may just help you get rid of the misfits quicker - like it just did with Macc & Gase. Then let's keep JD as GM for 15 years and it won't matter. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said: My original point stands. The structure isn't inherently bad. It becomes bad when the GM and the HC are not on the same page, AND when they report to an incompetent owner, which circles back to the structure not working when the GM and HC are not on the same page. Yeah -- structures are never bad if the people can make it work. And that's the counterpoint, that many don't trust the Johnsons to arbitrate effectively between the GM/HC. Thus, they foster a culture of backstabbing and jockeying for favor. Having HC report to GM eliminates another responsibility for the owner. If you're down on the Johnsons, anything that gets them less-involved is a positive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lith Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, IndianaJet said: But in this structure....BOTH guys don't report to a football guy. The HC reports to the GM...a football guy....the GM reports to the owner. If the GM wants a player and the HC doesn't the GM wins...there's no "football" guy to go to, to resolve the difference. The structure has nothing to do with helping a situation where the GM and the coach are not on the same page. If that's the case, the GM is the boss, the GM wins the dispute and the HC has to deal with it. To go back to the original point, the structure had nothing to do with the disagreement between Macc and Gase in signing Bell....because even if the structure was Gase reports to Macc, Macc reports to Johnson, Macc still signs Bell over Gase's objection. But nobody is getting signed without the owner's approval. Its the Johnson's money, not Macc's. If Macc and Gase were not aligned on Bell's usage, Chris was the one left to make the decision. Either he has to trust Macc (and sign Bell) or trust Gase (not sign Bell). And if he does sign Bell, he is not in a position to influence how Gase should use him. The structure can work with the right people. And with a coach and GM who are on the same page. In our case, we don't have the right guy in charge. And Macc and Gase were not on same page. So we ended up with an overpaid, underused asset. I agree that the sturcture is not bad per se. But it did not work in our environment.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNuuFaaolaExperience Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, jgb said: Yeah -- structures are never bad if the people can make it work. And that's the counterpoint, that many don't trust the Johnsons to arbitrate effectively between the GM/HC. Thus, they foster a culture of backstabbing and jockeying for favor. Having HC report to GM eliminates another responsibility for the owner. If you're down on the Johnsons, anything that gets them less-involved is a positive. Do we agree that this structure doesn't work for teams owned by Chris and Woody, or any team who doesn't have a competent football mind arbitrating disagreements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 minute ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said: Do we agree that this structure doesn't work for teams owned by Chris and Woody, or any team who doesn't have a competent football mind arbitrating disagreements? I really don't know. I know 1000x more about the Jets than any other franchise. Just been too much HC/GM drama on this team in the last 10 years for it to be coincidence IMHO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 3 hours ago, pdxgreen said: It's important have one person in charge because you want a coach who has a relationship with a GM that doesn't get superseded (by a relationship with an owner.) Esp. if your owners are for the most part.... gold plated morons. Even if the team has success that can all be undone by a phone call or interview that goes bad. Making the GM A-1 big boss totally gets around that. If the owner defers to him on certain matters then the coach can do what he does and the GM can do what he does. And the flip side can be a GM that editorializes what has been reported to him bay the HC when he reports to the owner. We can go back and forth with the advantages and disadvantages to both methods of reporting. I find the whole thing silly, there are teams successful each way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 23 hours ago, QB1 said: Please explain to me how it is a problem that the GM and HC both report to the owner. All that matters is that JD gets to hire his guy, after that, who the HC reports to is completely irrelevant. It's a huge fkcing problem when the owner they report to is a complete idiot and has zero football smarts. He cares more about saving pennies and public perception than winning. Every decision he has made since ownership has been horrible. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 23 hours ago, BroadwayRay said: You're right, but it doesn't matter. People are going to continue to believe that the Jets are the only team that does things this way, when actually half the league has the same reporting structure. People don't let facts get in the way of a good, juicy narrative. 1/2 the league reports to a complete moron? If Woody were a competent person to report to, then sure. Unfortunately he's about as bad as it gets. So it's not so much the structure than the complete incompetence of the creature to whom they both have to report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 23 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said: If the owner of the team is say, the Rooney family, the structure is fine. The structure is a problem when the owner of the team is a clueless imbecile who is easily duped into believing coaching candidates like Adam Gase are coaching where football is going. this is what the OP doesn't understand. It's not the structure. It's the boss. He makes stupid decisions and has made the worst hiring decisions of any team in the NFL since he bought the team. He's poison. He "delegated" authority while on vacation in London to a brother that makes him look like a genius. Two silver-spooned know-nothings. I would rather the HC not report to him. One is better than two. Let the GM run things for once. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 23 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said: Do we agree that this structure doesn't work for teams owned by Chris and Woody, or any team who doesn't have a competent football mind arbitrating disagreements? bingo. the structure is terrible when you put a moron in charge of it all. Having the HC report to GM at least removes one critical component from Woody's direct clutches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 20 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: And the flip side can be a GM that editorializes what has been reported to him bay the HC when he reports to the owner. We can go back and forth with the advantages and disadvantages to both methods of reporting. I find the whole thing silly, there are teams successful each way. It all goes back to the competence of the person to whom they report. Please let it just be the GM and not both that have to deal with him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Dcat said: It all goes back to the competence of the person to whom they report. Please let it just be the GM and not both that have to deal with him. But if the GM is Macc and is incompetent? Even if the owner is competent but is getting info from a boob or someone covering his ass? As I said I think there are pros and cons with both systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Old structure - Rex reported to Idzik, Idzik reported to Woody New structure - Macc reported to Woody, Bowles / Gase reported to Woody Can we honestly sit here and argue that it is / was the structure that's been the issue?? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just now, jamesr said: Old structure - Rex reported to Idzik, Idzik reported to Woody New structure - Macc reported to Woody, Gase reported to Woody Can we honestly sit here and argue that it is / was the structure that's been the issue?? ? It's nothing to do with structure. Joe Douglas is a baby, he's young and he was hired prematurely. He's not the kind of guy that Jim Harbaugh is going to agree to report to. Can you imagine? Not happening. We are NFL Siberia for coaching careers. We have to over-pay and over-title to get any coaching candidate of merit. That's what they're not saying in the press conferences. The Jets can't have this pretty, traditional reporting structure because the deck is already stacked against us getting anyone good. We need the ability to have the HC report to the owner as a carrot. SAR I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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