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NFL Overhaul Tiers, ESPN + thinks Jets have more talent than Record


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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Fair enough.  Agree to disagree is right.  I have one question.  Do you find him adequate on spacial teams?  IMO special teams requires the same traits as WR.  Speed, agility, toughness. 

I don't.  He's what I would call a JAG, a roster-space-filler.  I honestly don't think much more of him than that.

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

You seem like a bit of a name player lover to me.

Nope.  If I was "that guy" I'd be like so many here at JN, loudly saying how we're gonna "sign Robinson from the Bears, and then JuJu too!  Then our WR's will be like, awesome!".

Nope, I am not a "name" guy, I am a build through the draft, always look to improve team talent kinda guy.  

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I remember having the same argument about Wolford the QB from Wake that got the Rams into the playoffs last week.  You were offended he was even on our practice squad.

I wouldn't say offended.  I said (if I recall, because I say alot, and have been here for years now) that he wasn't worth consideration as an NFL Starting QB, which I believe is what you were advocating at the time.  That the Jets should sign him, and let him compete.  I'd stand by that opinion today.  But good luck to him in the playoffs, it's a great story.

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Nobody is saying these players will amount to stars or even good starters in the NFL.

Then why would we want them?  I want guys with the potential, at the very least, to be "good starters in the NFL".  

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

He is a cheap player under contract. He has some very promising traits and as done nohting to indicate he doesn't belong.  Maybe he will take a big step up.  Your attitude would discount the next Chrebet, Beasley, Mostert, Brady or Thielan.  Will this guy be one?  Probably not, but if he is, it should be here.

He's a JAG at a vital position (WR), and we can and should upgrade.  It's not personal.

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1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

Sorry but I too think Berrios had a good year under the circumstances (H/C & QB).  At worst he'll be a cut above a jag.  Definitely worth keeping till something better comes along.  We've got a lot more holes to fill etc.    

Something better should be coming along this offseason.

WR is one of our weakest positions.  We will be upgrading it significantly, surely.

I'll ask the same question, where are you seeing Berrios as a superior option to alternatives?  He's rather obviously not a starting quality #1/#2/#3 WR.  That should be clear to anyone paying attention.  And he's a lower-tier return man.

So.....what, #5 WR?  OK, maybe he can stay as our #5 WR if it pleases you, I guess.  Honestly, I think too many of you overinvest emotionally in fringe bottom of roster type players, especially at WR.  

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4 hours ago, Lith said:

Not sure I would agree that Perriman is a "low key important free agent."  Averaged about 2.5 receptions and 40 yards per game.  He ended the season 4th in receptions (2nd in yards), behind Crowder, Herndon and Berrios.  If we can re-sign him as a potential 4th/5th WR, that is fine, but we can't bring him back counting on him to be a top 3 WR.  And if he walks, I would not consider it an important loss. 

No argument with your assessment 

I do wonder if the combination of Sam and Gase werent great for his deep game.  If so he might do better with an offense that tried to stretch the field

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13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Something better should be coming along this offseason.

WR is one of our weakest positions.  We will be upgrading it significantly, surely.

I'll ask the same question, where are you seeing Berrios as a superior option to alternatives?  He's rather obviously not a starting quality #1/#2/#3 WR.  That should be clear to anyone paying attention.  And he's a lower-tier return man.

So.....what, #5 WR?  OK, maybe he can stay as our #5 WR if it pleases you, I guess.  Honestly, I think too many of you overinvest emotionally in fringe bottom of roster type players, especially at WR.  

I think your assessment of Berrios is incorrect

He was second on the team in receptions in his second yr on the team. He has high end speed and big play ability.  
He has been better than average as a returner   Last year he was top one or two in punt returns.

If the Jets bring someone in who does his job better Im fine with replacing Berrios but his play hasnt hurt this team  

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8 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

He was second on the team in receptions in his second yr on the team.

37 catches for 394 yards for the worst Passing Offense in the NFL in 2020.

8 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

He has been better than average as a returner

He's well below average statistically in 2020 from what I see on Pro Football Reference.

8.6 YPPR puts him 30th in the NFL.

18.6 YPKR puts him 88th in the NFL.

What is it you're seeing that makes these numbers "above average"?

8 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

If the Jets bring someone in who does his job better Im fine with replacing Berrios but his play hasnt hurt this team  

If you say so.  

 

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I don't.  He's what I would call a JAG, a roster-space-filler.  I honestly don't think much more of him than that.

Yeah.  We agreed to disagree.

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Nope.  If I was "that guy" I'd be like so many here at JN, loudly saying how we're gonna "sign Robinson from the Bears, and then JuJu too!  Then our WR's will be like, awesome!".

Nope, I am not a "name" guy, I am a build through the draft, always look to improve team talent kinda guy.  

Fair enough, but then why do you want to keep Perriman around as your #4?  He seems to suck.  The only reason to keep him is that he is better suited outside.  Perriman had more yards and way more yards per touch, but he also outsnapped the kid around 650 to 250.  I would argue that Berrios + Anderson > Crowder + Perriman.  You seem to like pedigree of some sort.  Would you like Berrios better if we had drafted him instead of the Pats? 

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I wouldn't say offended.  I said (if I recall, because I say alot, and have been here for years now) that he wasn't worth consideration as an NFL Starting QB, which I believe is what you were advocating at the time.  That the Jets should sign him, and let him compete.  I'd stand by that opinion today.  But good luck to him in the playoffs, it's a great story.

You were fine with Davis Webb and that guy flat out sucked.  Wolford was a bit undersized and his probable ceiling is back up/spot starter, but you never know.  He certainly would have served us better than Fales or Falk.  He has potential whether you like it or not.  It is much more likely that a good starting QB with a resume like Wolford or Fitzpatrick falls through the cracks than a big armed guy with size like Mike White or Tanner Lee.

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Then why would we want them?  I want guys with the potential, at the very least, to be "good starters in the NFL".  

Who the **** said they didn't have potential?  They have the potential to be much more than "good starters in the NFL."  I said it wasn't likely that they would amount to that.  I said that because any time you stand up for a bottom of the roster guy someone will come back and tell you how right they were when the guy isn't starting 3 years later. (Clyde Gates).  For every Adam Thielan there are 20 David Clowneys, it does not mean that you stop looking.

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He's a JAG at a vital position (WR), and we can and should upgrade.  It's not personal.

Again, agree to disagree.  Some of what we disagree on is semantics.  Just because it isn't likely, these guys do have the potential to be good starters.  Berrios has the potential to be a good starting WR or even a pro bowler, certainly to be better than Crowder.  PFF has Crowder at 76 and Berrios at 72.  Not exactly a huge difference.  I think youn severely underrate Berrios, but we will see what happens.   

If people guarantee Berrios will be a stud, it sounds like when I heard how great Chad Hansen would be.  I laugh the way I did when any late round (McElroy, Ainge ?) QB (is touted as the next Brady, or slow small (Denotay Burnett?) WR as the next Rice.  To claim these guys can't be good is just as misguided.  Your attitude would have missed out on anybody without a pedigree you like if they don't leap off the field from day 1.   Guys like Thielan, Beasley and Waller did not light the world on fire,  Neither did Bilal Powell.  They are cheap and under contract.  I agree more talent should be brought in, but if the guy ends up starting it isn't necessarily an indictment on Douglas.  I remember Berrios at Miami and I liked him.  I would not be surprised at him moving up the depth chart.

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6 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Yeah, I mean the team lost three games by blowing 4th quarter leads (Denver, NE, and Las Vegas) that were almost impossible to lose. 

If we had beaten the Bronocs and Patriots earlier in the season, we would have been losing the Lawrence race a lot earlier and the "worst team ever" narrative wouldn't have been much of a thing.

At the same time, this doesn't really mean all that much. Whether we are 5-11 or 2-14, the fact remains that we need more talent and better coaching. Gase would still be gone, we would still need a new QB, and we would still have the longest playoff drought in the league. 

What’s mind boggling was the NE and Raiders game especially they had to actively make such bad in-game coaching decisions to lose those games at the end.  It’s actually comical that they were trying to legit win them. 

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8 hours ago, Lith said:

Not sure I would agree that Perriman is a "low key important free agent."  Averaged about 2.5 receptions and 40 yards per game.  He ended the season 4th in receptions (2nd in yards), behind Crowder, Herndon and Berrios.  If we can re-sign him as a potential 4th/5th WR, that is fine, but we can't bring him back counting on him to be a top 3 WR.  And if he walks, I would not consider it an important loss. 

he has more talent, and theletic ability than Robby, just ask JN...

 

 

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

37 catches for 394 yards for the worst Passing Offense in the NFL in 2020.

He's well below average statistically in 2020 from what I see on Pro Football Reference.

8.6 YPPR puts him 30th in the NFL.

18.6 YPKR puts him 88th in the NFL.

What is it you're seeing that makes these numbers "above average"?

If you say so.  

 

its JN...  if a Jet plays like a legit avg NFL pplayer at his position, that is ABOVE AVG for the ordinarly Jets who stinks, therefore, he is above avg.

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3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Yeah.  We agreed to disagree.

Fair enough, but then why do you want to keep Perriman around as your #4?  He seems to suck.  The only reason to keep him is that he is better suited outside.  Perriman had more yards and way more yards per touch, but he also outsnapped the kid around 650 to 250.  I would argue that Berrios + Anderson > Crowder + Perriman.  You seem to like pedigree of some sort.  Would you like Berrios better if we had drafted him instead of the Pats? 

You were fine with Davis Webb and that guy flat out sucked.  Wolford was a bit undersized and his probable ceiling is back up/spot starter, but you never know.  He certainly would have served us better than Fales or Falk.  He has potential whether you like it or not.  It is much more likely that a good starting QB with a resume like Wolford or Fitzpatrick falls through the cracks than a big armed guy with size like Mike White or Tanner Lee.

Who the **** said they didn't have potential?  They have the potential to be much more than "good starters in the NFL."  I said it wasn't likely that they would amount to that.  I said that because any time you stand up for a bottom of the roster guy someone will come back and tell you how right they were when the guy isn't starting 3 years later. (Clyde Gates).  For every Adam Thielan there are 20 David Clowneys, it does not mean that you stop looking.

Again, agree to disagree.  Some of what we disagree on is semantics.  Just because it isn't likely, these guys do have the potential to be good starters.  Berrios has the potential to be a good starting WR or even a pro bowler, certainly to be better than Crowder.  PFF has Crowder at 76 and Berrios at 72.  Not exactly a huge difference.  I think youn severely underrate Berrios, but we will see what happens.   

If people guarantee Berrios will be a stud, it sounds like when I heard how great Chad Hansen would be.  I laugh the way I did when any late round (McElroy, Ainge ?) QB (is touted as the next Brady, or slow small (Denotay Burnett?) WR as the next Rice.  To claim these guys can't be good is just as misguided.  Your attitude would have missed out on anybody without a pedigree you like if they don't leap off the field from day 1.   Guys like Thielan, Beasley and Waller did not light the world on fire,  Neither did Bilal Powell.  They are cheap and under contract.  I agree more talent should be brought in, but if the guy ends up starting it isn't necessarily an indictment on Douglas.  I remember Berrios at Miami and I liked him.  I would not be surprised at him moving up the depth chart.

Wow. 

I'm not wasting that many more time or words on a fringe afterthought like Berrios tbqh.  

You like him, you want to keep him, great. 

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18 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

its JN...  if a Jet plays like a legit avg NFL pplayer at his position, that is ABOVE AVG for the ordinarly Jets who stinks, therefore, he is above avg.

It's normal, most fanbases doit, but man oh man do some folks lay it on thick over these nobody type players.  Whatever makes um' happy I guess.  When Berrios is inevitably cut loose they'll either wax poetic about that one game he had 2 catches for 35 yards and a TD, or they'll move on to the next undrafted free agent that gives them the Chrebet hardon.

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