Joe Douglas: Mistake to Learn from 2020

[Be_a_Jet]

This is an easy lay up for some jokes so your welcome for the thread. 

 

But in all seriousness, hearing Douglas in the few times he spoke he alludes to learning from his mistakes on his roster approach going into 2020. I'm wondering what you think is the mistake from a roster stand point that sticks out the most for HIM (not you) and how that might effect what our offseason looks like in 2021?

I think its the missed opportunity to sign Robby Anderson which he has brought up at some point but more broadly I think its his approach to the WR core in general, let be honest, Denzel Mims fell into his lap and Periman was a poor signing and we all knew it when he did it. 

I'm hopeful it means he's aggressive in the WR area and hopefully his WR drafting luck is much better than the Eagles cuz it was terrible those years he was there and it shows on that Eagles roster for the past several years. 

 

close second was the secondary - I still have no idea why Logan Ryan wasn't signed sooner - Giants love him and already extended him. Missed opportunity.

[CanadaSteve]

I wouldn't call Perriman a bad signing at all.  He has played well.  Just don't expect him to be your number one.

Now, if we add a true number one next year and have whoever they are, Perriman, Mims, Crowder, and Berrios.  I would be quite happy with that as our WR core.  It would be nice to have a developmental guy as well (maybe Cager shows more as well?)

 

[Larz]

He tore down the roster to lose and brought in 1 year hold the fort guys 

i would hope that’s not next year’s plan 

[jetstream23]

41 minutes ago, Be_a_Jet said:

This is an easy lay up for some jokes so your welcome for the thread. 

 

But in all seriousness, hearing Douglas in the few times he spoke he alludes to learning from his mistakes on his roster approach going into 2020. I'm wondering what you think is the mistake from a roster stand point that sticks out the most for HIM (not you) and how that might effect what our offseason looks like in 2021?

I think its the missed opportunity to sign Robby Anderson which he has brought up at some point but more broadly I think its his approach to the WR core in general, let be honest, Denzel Mims fell into his lap and Periman was a poor signing and we all knew it when he did it. 

I'm hopeful it means he's aggressive in the WR area and hopefully his WR drafting luck is much better than the Eagles cuz it was terrible those years he was there and it shows on that Eagles roster for the past several years. 

 

close second was the secondary - I still have no idea why Logan Ryan wasn't signed sooner - Giants love him and already extended him. Missed opportunity.

100%

I've written about this to the point that people are probably sick of hearing it.  But I'll do it again.

He fumbled the WR position group last offseason badly during a year in which you're trying to build the offense and evaluate the QB.  It wasn't just that he nickel-and-dimed Robby Anderson and let him walk, but that he counted on Tampa's WR3 (Perriman) to be a WR1 and a late 2nd round rookie (Mims) to be the WR2.  Neither of those guys have ever been real starters, Perriman has been through several teams and Mims had never played in the NFL.  It took just a couple of injuries in training camp to force Douglas into a panic signing of Chris Hogan to start at WR.  Again, he's signing a starting WR about 5 weeks before the season starts.  This was his 2020 version of the 2019 Ryan Kalil signing at Center.  Panic move.  The Jets never had their top 3 WRs on the field together until about Week 9.  I had no problem with signing Perriman but it should have been in ADDITION to keeping Robby Anderson.  You plan to start those 2 and then you have a 2nd round pick that should be working to break into the lineup, not counted on immediately.  The other disappointment in JD's approach to the WR group is that in a very deep draft of Wide Receivers we never got a second one.  With all those picks after Round 2 we should have hit WR once more.

[shuler82]

5 minutes ago, Larz said:

He tore down the roster to lose and brought in 1 year hold the fort guys 

i would hope that’s not next year’s plan 

Exactly. And he’s not going to admit that even after the fact to the fanbase.  He had a plan and it’s about to be put in motion.

[shuler82]

4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

100%

I've written about this to the point that people are probably sick of hearing it.  But I'll do it again.

He fumbled the WR position group last offseason badly during a year in which you're trying to build the offense and evaluate the QB.  It wasn't just that he nickel-and-dimed Robby Anderson and let him walk, but that he counted on Tampa's WR3 (Perriman) to be a WR1 and a late 2nd round rookie (Mims) to be the WR2.  Neither of those guys have ever been real starters, Perriman has been through several teams and Mims had never played in the NFL.  It took just a couple of injuries in training camp to force Douglas into a panic signing of Chris Hogan to start at WR.  Again, he's signing a starting WR about 5 weeks before the season starts.  This was his 2020 version of the 2019 Ryan Kalil signing at Center.  Panic move.  The Jets never had their top 3 WRs on the field together until about Week 9.  I had no problem with signing Perriman but it should have been in ADDITION to keeping Robby Anderson.  You plan to start those 2 and then you have a 2nd round pick that should be working to break into the lineup, not counted on immediately.  The other disappointment in JD's approach to the WR group is that in a very deep draft of Wide Receivers we never got a second one.  With all those picks after Round 2 we should have hit WR once more.

Most words ever devoted to Robby Anderson. JD tore it down in 2020 and admitted he miscalculated with Robby. Probably because he don’t see him as a locker room guy. Lesson learned. We’re stacked with cash and picks moving forward and I think we’re in good hands.

[PS17]

11 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

100%

I've written about this to the point that people are probably sick of hearing it.  But I'll do it again.

He fumbled the WR position group last offseason badly during a year in which you're trying to build the offense and evaluate the QB.  It wasn't just that he nickel-and-dimed Robby Anderson and let him walk, but that he counted on Tampa's WR3 (Perriman) to be a WR1 and a late 2nd round rookie (Mims) to be the WR2.  Neither of those guys have ever been real starters, Perriman has been through several teams and Mims had never played in the NFL.  It took just a couple of injuries in training camp to force Douglas into a panic signing of Chris Hogan to start at WR.  Again, he's signing a starting WR about 5 weeks before the season starts.  This was his 2020 version of the 2019 Ryan Kalil signing at Center.  Panic move.  The Jets never had their top 3 WRs on the field together until about Week 9.  I had no problem with signing Perriman but it should have been in ADDITION to keeping Robby Anderson.  You plan to start those 2 and then you have a 2nd round pick that should be working to break into the lineup, not counted on immediately.  The other disappointment in JD's approach to the WR group is that in a very deep draft of Wide Receivers we never got a second one.  With all those picks after Round 2 we should have hit WR once more.

Donovan Peoples-Jones was a favorite on this forum and he went in the sixth round. Athletic freak who got pushed down because of bad QB play at Michigan. He’s already flashed with Cleveland. I thought he would have been a good pick anywhere from the fourth onward. Agreed on the disappointment with only coming out with one receiver in a very deep WR class. 
 

Hopefully we throw the bank at Godwin or Robinson, but I don’t see either team letting them walk. Maybe Golladay? I don’t know. And in addition we go WR in round 2 or 3.

[nycdan]

If we sign A-Rob, we will have fixed the WR corps in one strike.  A-Rob, Mims, Crowder, Berrios, maybe Perriman.  Done.  No longer a big weakness.  On to the next position of need.  I'm sure adding a draft pick in the mid-rounds will be in the cards as well, and maybe Cager is able to develop into something with a real training camp, but A-Rob completely flips the script the way Diggs did in BUF.

 

 

[football guy]

Without a doubt his biggest mistake was not signing Robby. I don't know why the Jets couldn't sign Robby and Perriman plus draft Denzel Mims. I'm the first one to say that drafting WR in round 1 is a bit of a luxury, but you can't have enough pass catchers - especially if you're not investing significant money/draft capital on them. Big blunder by Douglas. 

I'd say his second biggest mistake was drafting Jabari Zuniga. That was purely a need pick on a flawed prospect. I'm not one to write off a guy after year 1, but I didn't really see much of anything in the limited snaps he played. There were so many options at the time which made so much more sense, and 1 season later some of those guys validated it (see Cameron Dantzler). 

[jetstream23]

30 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

Most words ever devoted to Robby Anderson. JD tore it down in 2020 and admitted he miscalculated with Robby. Probably because he don’t see him as a locker room guy. Lesson learned. We’re stacked with cash and picks moving forward and I think we’re in good hands.

Those two words are why I still believe in Joe Douglas.  It's one of the most important traits you can have in any profession and even just as a human being.  Learn from your mistakes, don't be afraid to admit them, and build off of those experiences.

If JD wants to correct last year's approach to WR then he does the following:  Bring back Perriman, plan for Mims and Crowder in 2021, retain Berrios as the backup to Crowder in the slot.  You now have 4 guys who saw the field quite a bit in 2020.  Now, you go with the old "Sign one, Draft one" approach again.  Sign a solid FA (hopefully a high-end guy like an Allen Robinson or JuJu) and draft another WR on Day 2 of the Draft in what will be a pretty deep group again.  That gives you 6 guys and we still have a couple of players that should be PS eligible (Cager, possibly Jeff Smith, etc.)

[jetstream23]

34 minutes ago, PS17 said:

Donovan Peoples-Jones was a favorite on this forum and he went in the sixth round. Athletic freak who got pushed down because of bad QB play at Michigan. He’s already flashed with Cleveland. I thought he would have been a good pick anywhere from the fourth onward. Agreed on the disappointment with only coming out with one receiver in a very deep WR class. 
 

Hopefully we throw the bank at Godwin or Robinson, but I don’t see either team letting them walk. Maybe Golladay? I don’t know. And in addition we go WR in round 2 or 3.

Godwin is interesting.  He has a BIG game coming up in the playoffs.  Mike Evans is out I believe so now you have Godwin and Antonio Brown at WR for Tampa.  Not sure if Tampa has room for all three of them next year so depending on Evans' injury I wouldn't be surprised if Godwin is the guy who slips away from Tampa.  Who knows?

[jetstream23]

14 minutes ago, football guy said:

Without a doubt his biggest mistake was not signing Robby. I don't know why the Jets couldn't sign Robby and Perriman plus draft Denzel Mims. I'm the first one to say that drafting WR in round 1 is a bit of a luxury, but you can't have enough pass catchers - especially if you're not investing significant money/draft capital on them. Big blunder by Douglas. 

I'd say his second biggest mistake was drafting Jabari Zuniga. That was purely a need pick on a flawed prospect. I'm not one to write off a guy after year 1, but I didn't really see much of anything in the limited snaps he played. There were so many options at the time which made so much more sense, and 1 season later some of those guys validated it (see Cameron Dantzler). 

Exactly.  Sign Robby AND Perriman, but also draft Mims AND another WR in the mid/late rounds of a very deep Draft.

The Jets have picks and they have Cap $$.  Joe Douglas can make amends this offseason by not doing the bare minimum to get by at WR and not counting unproven guys to carry the load in 2022.  Perriman has bounced around several NFL teams and never been a WR1.  Mims had never played an NFL snap before.  It was a poor approach to the WR position group but again, give Joe D credit for recognizing he f'd up and let's hope he leans into the WR group this year.  It will be important regardless of whether we have a new QB or roll with Darnold again.

[PS17]

8 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Godwin is interesting.  He has a BIG game coming up in the playoffs.  Mike Evans is out I believe so now you have Godwin and Antonio Brown at WR for Tampa.  Not sure if Tampa has room for all three of them next year so depending on Evans' injury I wouldn't be surprised if Godwin is the guy who slips away from Tampa.  Who knows?

Godwin seems like a no-brainer franchise tag if they don't come to a contract agreement.

[jeremy2020]

Simply because a player comes at "bargain" price doesn't mean they're a bargain. 

[rangerous]

not re-signing anderson was his biggest mistake especially given the large numbers of games both perriman ad mims and crowder missed.  also, darnold seemed to have some confidence in robbie.  this is something he really only had with crowder as the season went on.  robbie, for all of the concern about his slight frame has been pretty durable and it's really too bad they didn't make a better effort to keep him.

the rest of the players, if they didn't seem so great seem to be mainly coaching related.  injuries were a huge problem for this team.  to the extent that douglas has any responsibility for conditioning that's something he will need to address.

[Coffee Is Great]

We'll never know. Maybe trading down in Rd 2 and passing on Claypool? So far he looks quite a bit better than Mims but he's in a much different situation.

I've always felt Douglas viewed this as a complete rebuilding job, including his inherited head coach and quarterback. We'll never know what JD felt about Darnold the day he took the job. It's possible he wanted to move on from Sam no matter what, baring a star-level explosion. I don't believe he was tanking this year, but I firmly believe the future was a far bigger priority than the 2020 season. If Darnold showed flashes, great, but JD wasn't going to leverage the future to bring in playmakers.

This season went about as poorly as it could have. We could have been a six or seven win team but Gase is a truly awful head coach and Sam isn't the answer. Plus the COVID opt-outs. The OL eventually became solid and our defense had it's moments, but it was clear our secondary was never going to be very good.

I am optimistic for next season, even without knowing our QB situation yet, but I'm sure we'll take a QB at #2. I'm eager to see what with do with the SEA 1st and our 2nd rounder. I'm hopeful a few games into the the '21 season we'll get confirmation of just how bad Gase and Sam were, granted most of the fanbase already knows. 

[k-met57]

Robbie Anderson oof the guy who was arrested multiple times, told a cop he was going to nut in his wifes face...that guy? i was never upset about him being gone.

The thing that puzzles me is the corners, our secondary even going into the year was really bad. I mean we signed Dessir after he got cut and he instantly became our best corner.

[kmnj]

joe d had a bad draft so far based on actual production-very bad-that can change if mims proves he is better than stephen hill so far he has not

he brought in lots of bad free agents to replace better talent he let go

it comes down to nailing the draft-not wasting picks and bringing a quality FA or two that will have a big impact

he proved he can make the roster much worse-now can he make it much better

[Irish Jet]

No bargain basement bullsh*t this year plz. 

[dcJet]

JD had to tear some of this sh*t down for sure - like Adams and Leo and Gase, but I'm not buying the "He tore the WHOLE THING down on purpose to lose BIG on purpose" argument at all.

I think JD got caught by surprise by the perfect storm just like the rest of us did. 

The injuries and Darnold's regression really killed us.  That's not completely JD's fault, but I'm glad he recognizes and owns the mistakes he did make, that contributed to it.

 

 

[Warfish]

Quote

....not re-signing anderson was his biggest mistake....

Oh look, more Robby talk.

With Robby we sucked.  Without Robby we sucked.  Robby...made...no...difference.  Robby wouldn't have changed the outcome of 2020 by even a single win. 

Because Robby isn't a difference maker.

And really, in a year where most of you were rooting against the Jets most of the season....would you have wanted Robby to win games?

Remind me, what was Carolinas record with the amazing difference-making Robby as their #1?  Oh, right...5-11.  Same as it was without Robby.

The guy is a fine enough #2 WR, nobody disputed or disputes that, he could be a piece to a larger puzzle for a competitive team, sure, but just a piece. 

He's not worth big money (no matter his one-year stat increase, which was mostly due to McCaffrey being out all season than anything Robby did, the 800 pasing yards McCaffrey didn't get had to go to someone!) .

We should walk out of the 2020 Draft with a pair of #1 WR prospects to pair with pair with Crowder and Mims, and we're just fine at WR.  Easy, if J.D. has half a brain and doesn't get lured in by yet more Defense.

Jets Fans need to start aiming higher than the Robby Andersons and Braxton Berrios of the NFL.

[RedBeardedSavage]

Shopping with coupons for offensive lineman doesn't work out too well.

It's like stopping at Chipotle on the way home from work knowing full well you have no toilet paper at home. 

You did this to yourself. 

[kmnj]

11 minutes ago, dcJet said:

JD had to tear some of this sh*t down for sure - like Adams and Leo and Gase, but I'm not buying the "He tore the WHOLE THING down on purpose to lose BIG on purpose" argument at all.

I think JD got caught by surprise by the perfect storm just like the rest of us did. 

The injuries and Darnold's regression really killed us.  That's not completely JD's fault, but I'm glad he recognizes and owns the mistakes he did make that contributed.

 

 

folks tried  to sell the he tore it down to tank agenda which is bogus-the gm players and coaches all tried to win-they were all just very bad at their job this past year.

Joe put together a terrible roster this past season

now he has to show he can build a good one

[kevinc855]

Knickling and Diming Robby was a mistake and JD knows it. 

I think he learend his lesson and wont make it again. Young GM's will make mistakes, the sign of good one is one who learns from it.

JD, go pay a Big 1. Draft another with late 1 rounder and with Mimms and Crowder we are set. 

[LIJetsFan]

2 hours ago, k-met57 said:

Robbie Anderson oof the guy who was arrested multiple times, told a cop he was going to nut in his wifes face...that guy? i was never upset about him being gone.

The thing that puzzles me is the corners, our secondary even going into the year was really bad. I mean we signed Dessir after he got cut and he instantly became our best corner.

Re FA: Tremaine Johnson was still on the payroll and we had other more pressing needs.  Plus he did seem to score pretty well with Bryce Hall.  Can't fix it all in one offseason.

And Yes, sooo many here forget/overlook Anderson's character issues.  JD wants good guys culture wise.  

[dcJet]

The WR problem.  The easy fix of course is to sign Arob, Godwin, JuJu, but it's highly unlikely they would want to be Jets.  However, if JD convinces one of them to sign here, that would be some GM-savant sh*t, and maybe a "turning of the worm" moment for us.

So what's more likely to get accomplished?

I think sign two of the mid-tier guys  (Perriman, Marvin Jones or one of the Jax FA) and draft another rookie.

The Perriman signing has been surprisingly ok for us.  Breshad has resurrected his career with his strong finish in Tampa and the nice showing here.  He's no Robbie, but he produces some, and stretches the field some, and has fixed his dropsies.  

The idea is to create some competition for Mims and some depth too.  Mims will have to earn his playing time, no more excuses.

 

[BigRy56]

Spend spend spend! There’s no reason to sit on 30+mil in cap room ever again

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Re FA: Tremaine Johnson was still on the payroll and we had other more pressing needs.  Plus he did seem to score pretty well with Bryce Hall.  Can't fix it all in one offseason.

And Yes, sooo many here forget/overlook Anderson's character issues.  JD wants good guys culture wise.  

I'm pretty sure that Trumaine Johnson was cut as soon as they could do so with a June 1st designation.

[LIJetsFan]

I don't see why people are so down on this rookie class.  The preseason was a disaster thanks to COVID.  No TC to speak of.  Further, rookies ALWAYS need a year of NFL conditioning to bring their bodies up to par.  Finally Sam REGRESSED and threw everything off on his side of the ball. (not to mention Gase)    

What, me worried?   

[LIJetsFan]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

I'm pretty sure that Trumaine Johnson was cut as soon as they could do so with a June 1st designation.

The point is just how much cap do you want to designate to one group.  I think JD is playing the long game from the get go.  

[genot]

Godwin and Robinson will never hit free agency. Golliday, might. Don't be surprised if Sammy Watkins is our consolation signing 

[ljr]

Robbie Anderson oof the guy who was arrested multiple times, told a cop he was going to nut in his wifes face...that guy?

I need to see pics of the wife before I decide how I feel about this




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[ljr]

The WR problem.  The easy fix of course is to sign Arob, Godwin, JuJu, but it's highly unlikely they would want to be Jets.  However, if JD convinces one of them to sign here, that would be some GM-savant sh*t and maybe a "turning of the worm" moment for us.

 

Unfortunately not a chance one comes to us regardless of $$$

I stay far away from Juju ... but toss mad $$$
At Robinson


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[DoubleDown]

People have come up with the narrative that 2020 was a tear down year for the Jets.  I absolutely disagree with that premise.  Going into the season, the goal was to win and compete for a playoff spot.  They did not start tearing things down until it was evident that they were not a competitive team after the season began.

I think Joe Douglas' biggest regret is not putting more playmakers on this team.

Le'veon Bell was clearly on the decline in the second half of 2019 and it predictably carried over to 2020.  Frank Gore is a JAG at this stage of his career.  Denzel Mims and La'Mical Perine have been underwhelming at best.  Breshard Perriman is an oft injured role player as proven throughout his entire career.  Chris Herndon and Ryan Griffin have not been the same since their injuries in 2019.

Hindsight is 20/20, but this is a pitiful assembly of skill position players.  The only way they were going to succeed was if everything went perfectly and Darnold elevated his play to a top 10 level.

Some actions that could have been taken:

- Draft Claypool instead of trading down and drafting Mims.  Claypool has been a much better NFL player to this point.
- Double dip at the WR position in a draft touted for being very strong at the WR position.
- Draft a more dynamic RB than Perine.  Dobbins, Taylor, Moss, and Dillon come to mind.  They were all available with the Jets 2nd or 3rd round picks.
- Trade for Hopkins or Diggs.  They were clearly on the trade block, they are young, and they have improved their new teams dramatically.  You need a go-to reliable receiver to succeed in today's NFL.

[#27TheDominator]

I'm not sure how so many people think the Perriman signing was good.  50% catch rate and 3 games over 50 yards?  He basically had a big game against the Pats with Gilmore out.  Whoop-di-damn-do. I might have him back, but i am not paying any more than we did this year.