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I don't see a story here.....but honestly, as a Dad, I wouldn't want my kid going to the Jets either.

Always liked Fields better anyway. God Douglas better not **** this up. Just draft Fields.

Meanwhile Semone Becton (Mekhi’s mom) on Twitter this season every Sunday.... @semonebecton   Jan 4

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2 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

This is a big false. Unless you count Lawrence's throws behind the LOS as a big boy throws.

Lawrence's entire career comprises of easier first read throws close to the LOS. Clemson's offense simply doesn't call for many intermediate to deep routes. They rely on superior talent on the perimeter to make the plays. In contrast, OSU throws deep 7-10x a game. 

I posted this back in early Nov regarding Lawrence, but I feel it's necessary to drive home my point. Although this is 2019 data, 2020 has shown more of the same. Last week's game was a microcosm of it. Even when Clemson was down big due to OSU airing it out and converting on those big plays, Clemson still rarely dialed up chunk plays - because they simply don't call or run them with any type of consistency. 

 

 

 

 

Are you going on the record saying Lawrence is a probable bust? Don’t hate it honestly, I appreciate some conviction.

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7 minutes ago, peebag said:

I now really want the Jets to take Fields so that if he busts, we can do a Villain routine on Jif

😁

lol - Unfair, I'm not making any claims on anyone.  I'm not convinced Fields is going to be great....but I'm not convinced Lawrence is either, certainly dont think Zach Manziel will be.  My thing is, the gap isnt that big.  I've damn near watched every single snap both players have taken, they're both great and they're both flawed. For me, it's about the prospect and I think they're very good prospects.  Both incredible athletes who have been playing the positions since middle school, #1 and #2 prospects in the country.  Both lived up to the hype by winning at the next level and producing at a very high level.  Both have film that you want to see for the NFL.  Both have some red flags.  And that's ok.  There is no perfect prospect, guaranteed cant miss.  Neither one of them are generational but there is also no reason to over think it and over analyze it.   That's how you miss on Mahomes/Watson/Allen etc.  And just like every Qb, they're going to need the right situation to succeed.  It's about the ability, the brain and the character...I think both players definitely possess those next level attributes.

Justin Fields is one of the most productive QB's in college Football, he's lost 1 game, just put up a legendary historic performance outshining the golden boy and he's about to play in a Nat'y accordingly.  He's the highest rated player in the history of the Ohio St. program.  He's an all world athlete.  He has an Ivey league brain.  The Jets have Sam Darnold.  We can nitpick and break down every little thing that Fields has ever done wrong and therefore convince yourself he's not worth the #2 overall pick but then I ask, what's the other option?  Build around Sam?  Trade back and hope another similar prospect comes available in the future?  Seems silly to me but my biggest issue is just the bogus 1 game analysis that's going on when it comes to Fields and how he's held to a different standard then both Lawrence and Wilson.

 

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I feel the same way with receivers. "Wins on contested catches" often equals "can't get open."  It was one thing that scared me with Mims.  His highlights seemed to have a ton of contested catches. For a guy that big and fast in a conference that doesn't play D I would have expected to see him running around by himself.

Funny, I never thought of it this way. It's also interesting how this would affect the QB he plays with. In a vacuum, I probably would take the "wins on contested catches" guy over the "gets open" guy 10/10, because getting open in NCAAF is very different from getting open in NFL. I think being able to show you can make contested catches is a more translatable skill set.

That being said, if I'm choosing between the two and I know I have a QB who is a gun shy-shy, high-completion % type, then I'd probably prefer the guy who can get open, because otherwise the QB would never throw him the ball.  

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3 minutes ago, JiF said:

lol - Unfair, I'm not making any claims on anyone.  I'm not convinced Fields is going to be great....but I'm not convinced Lawrence is either, certainly dont think Zach Manziel will be.  My thing is, the gap isnt that big.  I've damn near watched every single snap both players have taken, they're both great and they're both flawed. For me, it's about the prospect and I think they're very good prospects.  Both incredible athletes who have been playing the positions since middle school, #1 and #2 prospects in the country.  Both lived up to the hype by winning at the next level and producing at a very high level.  Both have film that you want to see for the NFL.  Both have some red flags.  And that's ok.  There is no perfect prospect, guaranteed cant miss.  Neither one of them are generational but there is also no reason to over think it and over analyze it.   That's how you miss on Mahomes/Watson/Allen etc.  And just like every Qb, they're going to need the right situation to succeed.  It's about the ability, the brain and the character...I think both players definitely possess those next level attributes.

Justin Fields is one of the most productive QB's in college Football, he's lost 1 game, just put up a legendary historic performance outshining the golden boy and he's about to play in a Nat'y accordingly.  He's the highest rated player in the history of the Ohio St. program.  He's an all world athlete.  He has an Ivey league brain.  The Jets have Sam Darnold.  We can nitpick and break down every little thing that Fields has ever done wrong and therefore convince yourself he's not worth the #2 overall pick but then I ask, what's the other option?  Build around Sam?  Trade back and hope another similar prospect comes available in the future?  Seems silly to me but my biggest issue is just the bogus 1 game analysis that's going on when it comes to Fields and how he's held to a different standard then both Lawrence and Wilson.

 

i think your arguments are usually sound but comparing wilson to jonny football hurts your cred.  this guy is a pocket passer who can move and is deadly accurate all over the field.  his ball placement is also amazing. 

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F---ing love this thread .... The full derail mixed with some other posters trying to keep the thread on topic. 😂

 

JT being accused of a straw man argument.

Stater using a perceived slight as a jumping board for a a completely unrelated and overly personal diatribe. No one involved seems to be a "homophobe" or "bigot" and the only person to use an inflammatory term (clutches pearls) was the individual who claims to be slighted

I would suggest both parties shake hands and move on.... dare I say kiss and make up.😜

No one here cares about anyone's "preference" and if they did and voiced it in a serious fashion they'd be dealt with by our overlords.... Let's get back to trashing each others horrible football takes  or if you like we can continue down this road and I'll just :

1509478046_imageproxy(1).gif.407f82b8b53f107656deb87a5e414fd6.gif

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14 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Are you going on the record saying Lawrence is a probable bust? Don’t hate it honestly, I appreciate some conviction.

Nope, I'm on record already having said that I would take Lawrence over Fields - but literally for 1 reason and 1 reason only: He has significantly more reps in practice and on game days as the QB1. After Sanchez and Darnold (and other non-jets QBs), I'm entirely gunshy of taking any QB that doesn't have at least 30 career collegiate starts as QB1. That alone raises Lawrence's floor significantly for me.

However, I've also been on record for months that I don't think Lawrence is anywhere close to his hype, and that Fields has Aaron Rodgers' upside, but also Jamarcus Russell's downside.

Lawrence is a great dink and dunker and would have been great in the 2000s and early 2010s, but the game has become much more open and dynamic. His collegiate tape doesn't give me any insight as to whether he can keep up in today's NFL - whereas Fields is the protypical dynamic QB for today's game. 

Simply put, if the Jets had a better team and lucked into a high draft pick - a la the Dolphins this year - then I'd go Fields. However, given the absolute sh*t that this team is, I'd have gone with the higher floor and hope that he is able to up his game in the pros, so I'd have taken Lawrence. 

Unfortunately (or, maybe fortunately given this team's inability to ever draft the right QB), the Jets won't get to make the decision between the two. They get to sit back and take whichever falls to them. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

F---ing love this thread .... The full derail mixed with some other posters trying to keep the thread on topic. 😂

 

JT being accused of a straw man argument.

Stater using a perceived slight as a jumping board for a a completely unrelated and overly personal diatribe. No one involved seems to be a "homophobe" or "bigot" and the only person to use an inflammatory term (clutches pearls) was the individual who claims to be slighted

I would suggest both parties shake hands and move on.... dare I say kiss and make up.😜

No one here cares about anyone's "preference" and if they did and voiced it in a serious fashion they'd be dealt with by our overlords.... Let's get back to trashing each others horrible football takes  or if you like we can continue down this road and I'll just :

1509478046_imageproxy(1).gif.407f82b8b53f107656deb87a5e414fd6.gif

Oh shut up and let us have our fun.

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41 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Kind of what I'm saying above. There is so little footage of any of these guys facing big-time defenses (let alone above average to elite NFL defenses) that there's always going to be a lot of guessing what would happen in other situations. 

I don't know much of anything about these guys' specific games (watching an isolated 5 minutes of highlight clips from 1 game while they're still just big children doesn't tell me what any of these guys are going to be at their very best from their mid-20s into their mid-30s. 

I've seen Darnold, though. Still has a high ceiling (or higher than he's shown on the Jets)? Yeah I'm sure 2020 Jets is not his max potential. But I've seen enough to know I want to give someone else a go at it before deciding on a 5th year option in a few months, where we're tied to him for that 5th year at $25MM if (go with me on this) he somehow gets injured in a football game. 

100% and that's the point I made above.  What's the other option?  For the sake of the thread, I'd take Zach Manziel over going with another year of Sam and putting us in that position.  It's going to be crucial to have a QB on a rookie contract while building this roster.  There is sooo much work to do.

 

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Your "suspicions", huh? 
I think the opposite. Fields is going to make a fantastic pro.
He might ... to be honest both are consolation prizes... I'd just assume trade down to either... but can see justifications for taking either as well ...

Fields certainly has moxy and toughness ...

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15 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i think your arguments are usually sound but comparing wilson to jonny football hurts your cred.  this guy is a pocket passer who can move and is deadly accurate all over the field.  his ball placement is also amazing. 

In terms of on the field, they look like the same player IMO.   Go look at the 2 side by side.  Legit, damn near the same exact dude.  Manziel was just a much better runner and more dynamic but from the pocket, look like the same dude. Obviously character is different and that's a huge factor but for a college comparison, it's pretty dang spot on.  If I'm being more real about it, I could see Wilson being a Jimmy G type with a little bit more of a live arm.  Kind has some Tua in him too.  Overall, just low ceiling type of NFL QB's.  

IMO Lawrence and Fields are considerably better prospects.

 

 

 

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lol - Unfair, I'm not making any claims on anyone.  I'm not convinced Fields is going to be great....but I'm not convinced Lawrence is either, certainly dont think Zach Manziel will be.  My thing is, the gap isnt that big.  I've damn near watched every single snap both players have taken, they're both great and they're both flawed. For me, it's about the prospect and I think they're very good prospects.  Both incredible athletes who have been playing the positions since middle school, #1 and #2 prospects in the country.  Both lived up to the hype by winning at the next level and producing at a very high level.  Both have film that you want to see for the NFL.  Both have some red flags.  And that's ok.  There is no perfect prospect, guaranteed cant miss.  Neither one of them are generational but there is also no reason to over think it and over analyze it.   That's how you miss on Mahomes/Watson/Allen etc.  And just like every Qb, they're going to need the right situation to succeed.  It's about the ability, the brain and the character...I think both players definitely possess those next level attributes.
Justin Fields is one of the most productive QB's in college Football, he's lost 1 game, just put up a legendary historic performance outshining the golden boy and he's about to play in a Nat'y accordingly.  He's the highest rated player in the history of the Ohio St. program.  He's an all world athlete.  He has an Ivey league brain.  The Jets have Sam Darnold.  We can nitpick and break down every little thing that Fields has ever done wrong and therefore convince yourself he's not worth the #2 overall pick but then I ask, what's the other option?  Build around Sam?  Trade back and hope another similar prospect comes available in the future?  Seems silly to me but my biggest issue is just the bogus 1 game analysis that's going on when it comes to Fields and how he's held to a different standard then both Lawrence and Wilson.
 
... And you were doing so well until the Zach Manzeil derogatory description ...

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

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5 minutes ago, JiF said:

In terms of on the field, they look like the same player IMO.   Go look at the 2 side by side.  Legit, damn near the same exact dude.  Manziel was just a much better runner and more dynamic but from the pocket, look like the same dude. Obviously character is different and that's a huge factor but for a college comparison, it's pretty dang spot on.  If I'm being more real about it, I could see Wilson being a Jimmy G type with a little bit more of a live arm.  Kind has some Tua in him too.  Overall, just low ceiling type of NFL QB's.  

IMO Lawrence and Fields are considerably better prospects.

 

 

 

not even close.  and though wilson is not as fast as fields he seems to make decisions faster and get the ball out faster and also has a faster deliver and a more compact throwing motion.  you'll hear all of this from more credible people over the next few months though.

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7 hours ago, mrcoops said:

Cheats fan? Pass.

I like Fields better anyway - more solidly built, has produced at a higher level, doesn't look like a 14 year old girl.

Or like a lesbian.  

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The comps I have seen for Fields a few times (and that I like a lot) are Watson and a larger Wilson.  Yes, Prescott also.

These are not bad comps if he turns out to be of that level.

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3 hours ago, freestater said:

Here, let me do the heavy lifting for you, since you seem so...incapable. Yeah. I'm bi. Never mentioned it before on this board because I learned a long time ago not to mention sh*t you don't have a sense of humor about on a football message board. And I have zero sense of humor about my sexuality nor the bigots in this world that try to make something out of it. In fact, the only way I've ever outed myself before this has been face to face, because for some reason when ppl are right in front of me, they lose the balls to call me a queer or a faggot or whatever. Unfortunately,  through the internet, you can't get your hands on a foul mouthed bigot for spewing their crap at you. So, here's the ******* notice right now: I have zero sense of humor about it. Any toxic homophobic bullsh*t levied at me, I'm going to report immediately. And I'm pretty sure that @Maxman isn't going to tolerate anybody harassing or trolling me about it. Save your bigoted sh*t for somebody else. I made it through the 80s and the 90s getting into fights on the regular over this sh*t and I'm not about to hear the same bullsh*t 30 years later from another ridiculous twat who never grew the **** up. 

So go ahead a$$hole, yuk it up. I'd do it to yourself though, because you ******* spew it at me, ill make sure you're deleted from this board and then I can get back to talking football with old friends. Without bigots around to ruin it. 

I mean this when i say it but you have my respect and not for coming out as BI but for standing up for what and who you are . I don't mind anyone's sexuality that stuff belongs in the bedroom anyway . But i think if you are happy living who you are and you are Free of all the BS you sir are what people should strive to be Bravo!!!.

 

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3 hours ago, JTJet said:

@freestater

Let me spell it out for you. 

1. First guy makes homophobic twink comment towards wilson. 

2. Second guy takes issue and calls out his homophobic remark by asking about his google history. 

3. First guy deflects and tries to call second guy a homophobe. 

That's the entire story. Full stop. 

Bro. ******* stop.

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5 hours ago, JiF said:

I cant believe how you continue to repeat the same thing over and over again about 1 game and ignore all all the other evidence that shows you're wrong about Fields but I guess it's fun to get a thought in your head and refuse to see anything else. 

 

It’s his M.O.

Better yet, just the other day he was telling me that no sane person would bring back Sam Darnold and if Douglas does, it’s a sign that he isn’t in charge.  He also doesn’t want an aging stop gap.  So to recap:

- Don’t take a QB @ 2OA.

- Don’t bring back Sam.

- Don’t sign a veteran.

F*ck it.  Lets a run a QB-less offense.

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43 minutes ago, bitonti said:

punishment GIF

 

this was a movie reference of extraordinary magnitude

you have our gratitude 

Was that one of those weird Gymnastics as a Martial Art movies from the 80s? LOL

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13 minutes ago, ToonforPrez said:

I mean this when i say it but you have my respect and not for coming out as BI but for standing up for what and who you are . I don't mind anyone's sexuality that stuff belongs in the bedroom anyway . But i think if you are happy living who you are and you are Free of all the BS you sir are what people should strive to be Bravo!!!.

 

Thank you very much. The reactions that I got from people in my life were the things that helped me through some really tough times earlier in life. The people in your life are blessed to have a kind person like yourself in their lives. 

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2 minutes ago, freestater said:

Thank you very much. The reactions that I got from people in my life were the things that helped me through some really tough times earlier in life. The people in your life are blessed to have a kind person like yourself in their lives. 

You are very welcome my friend and i appreciate the kind words about me means a lot. Growing up i was taught kindness and to treat people the way i wanted to be treated. Until i joined the service then i decided not everyone is nice and they need a beating haha. I believe being kind should be everyone's first reaction everything after that depends on the other person involved. Cheers my friend and keep being you always F**k what anyone else says.    

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I've seen Darnold, though. Still has a high ceiling (or higher than he's shown on the Jets)? Yeah I'm sure 2020 Jets is not his max potential. But I've seen enough to know I want to give someone else a go at it before deciding on a 5th year option in a few months, where we're tied to him for that 5th year at $25MM if (go with me on this) he somehow gets injured in a football game. 

Hmmmmmm thank you...

Could Darnold rework his 5th year option to make it more team friendly?

If so, that is what I would do if I were Darnold because NO ONE in their right mind is giving Darnold $25MM based on his current level of performance....

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43 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Was that one of those weird Gymnastics as a Martial Art movies from the 80s? LOL

I can't tell what is or isn't sarcasm anymore. 

 

Kentucky fried movie is the Zucker bros 1st attempt a cult movie...it's skits and ends up mostly an Enter the dragon parody. They went on to do Airplane and The Naked Gun etc. 

Big Jim Slade 

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

100% and that's the point I made above.  What's the other option?  For the sake of the thread, I'd take Zach Manziel over going with another year of Sam and putting us in that position.  It's going to be crucial to have a QB on a rookie contract while building this roster.  There is sooo much work to do.

 

Plus there'll be a veteran QB on the roster as well, and it's a lot less awkward to bench Fields/Wilson/whomever for the first month of his career - it's quite common - than to bench Darnold until such time as he wipes the floor with the veteran in preseason. 

A clean break is a lot easier, especially with Darnold's contract ending soon yet with him still retaining more than nominal trade value. The final year of backup money (~$5MM), for another team to get a good long look at him without a long-term financial commitment, is half of what keeps his trade value at probably round 2 +/- 1 round. When he's got a guaranteed $25MM or more coming, just to take a look at him in 2022, is when we'll get nothing (or next to nothing) in return. Plus we'd have to exercise that 5th yr option and risk taking on that $25MM guaranteed ourselves even if he sucks again pre-injury.

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