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Does Justin Fields need to throw 7 TDs?


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43 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Matt, serious question, how many full games of Justin Fields have you watched? Yesterday you told me he faces no pressure. I then showed you the number of sacks he has taken over the last 2 years, to demonstrate that he has not had a clean pocket all the time. You have now twisted that to, "he takes an alarming number of sacks". 

Well, it is really not an "alarming stat. 21 games the last 2 years equates to 2.3 sacks per game. Nothing extraordinary there. As I said earlier, yes, he does hold the ball trying to wait sometimes when he should bail. Not necessarily an alarming trait.

 

Mobile QBs, with the confidence in their ability to move & buy time, take a lot of sacks. Hardly uncommon, especially among younger ones, and is part of the tradeoff (considering how many of these sacks simply would've been incomplete passes anyway).

Deshaun Watson just led the NFL in passing yards, Y/A and Y/C while completing >70% of his passes. He also took 3 sacks per game in doing so. Rodgers has been in that 3 sacks/game range a handful of times himself. Wilson pretty much every season of his career. The list hardly ends there.

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So picking 2nd in the draft isn't good enough either and so it's time to start picking apart Justin Fields like 98% of the draftnicks here picked apart Josh Allen. I'll clearly admit, I haven't starte

70 TD's vs Bama won't be enough for some here.

Who are the supposedly smartest Jet fans on the site?  I want to friend them on Facebook and Instagram.  

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19 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

Do you feel the same way about Lawrence , and if not - why ?

Lawrence demonstrated almost all of those qualities in that game against Ohio State.  Take a look again.  He is under pressure most of the game, makes WOW throws that are perfectly placed and kept his team in the entire game despite other stars (Etienne) not having a good night.  

Nothing is guaranteed but I don't need to question the established fact among professionals that Lawrence is an entire tier ahead of Fields.  Anyone who wants to argue otherwise is just wishing and hoping.  Find one professional scout or GM or former GM or coach that says Fields is the better prospect. 

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19 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Which games should I go back and watch in your opinion?

Pick any game other than NW and you see tons of examples of what you claim he cant and doesnt do.  Or go check the J.T. O'Sullivan break downs on him....he gives you every single example you claim Fields/cant/doesnt do that translates.

 

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21 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Which games should I go back and watch in your opinion?

All of them. If you truly want to have an informed opinion. That said, I have probably watched 12-13 full games. All this year except for Rutgers.

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54 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

No one's an expert. Just using what I see and forming an opinion. He's taken 49 sacks in two years....his biggest knock is he holds the ball too long because he locks onto read 1. That is a flag to me. Maybe he shakes it, but typically if you dont trust what you see and you panic, that's bad in the NFL. Every single nice throw I've seen Fields make has been from a clean pocket.

I don’t think it is necessarily a red flag.  If you follow Justin from high school then to UGA and then OSU you can kinda see why he may be more likely to want to hold the ball as long as possible to allow his receivers to get open.  He was the #1 dual threat QB in HS, Trevor was the #1 pocket passer/pro style QB.   Justin went to Georgia and they basically used him as a wildcat QB, never giving him full reign of the offense like Fromm had, never relying on his arm but only his legs.   Then he goes to OSU with this chip on his shoulder that he is labeled as a “running QB” and one that can’t beat you with his arm.  I do think he may be a little more determined to use his legs less and prove that his arm is NFL caliber.  
 

I think if he was truly panicking, we would see him taking off running more quickly and not staying in the pocket and not giving his receivers time to get open.  

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My question is why has no Ohio State QB had any success in the NFL?  True Fields could be the first but when I watch him I see Terrell Pryor all over again.

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17 minutes ago, Reprisalizer said:

Lawrence demonstrated almost all of those qualities in that game against Ohio State.  Take a look again.  He is under pressure most of the game, makes WOW throws that are perfectly placed and kept his team in the entire game despite other stars (Etienne) not having a good night.  

Nothing is guaranteed but I don't need to question the established fact among professionals that Lawrence is an entire tier ahead of Fields.  Anyone who wants to argue otherwise is just wishing and hoping.  Find one professional scout or GM or former GM or coach that says Fields is the better prospect. 

You won't.  Nobody meaningful is suggesting that.  Lawrence is the clear #1.  I think Fields is the clear #2 but some are still clinging to Wilson there.  I have given my reasons in other places about why I don't think it's even close, but at this point, we might as well wait and see what happens Monday night.  Another big game from Fields should completely shut down the Wilson train (but it won't).  More challenging would be a mediocre game.  For Jet fans, the 'OSU-Bama game is must-watch TV.

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34 minutes ago, JiF said:

The thing is you say things that arent accurate and you repeat them over and over again like they are true and you clearly have no interest in researching it yourself.  He has plenty of throws on film throwing into the face of pressure.   I've told you he goes through more reads then your average college QB.  But you just continue to chose not recognize them for some reason, not look into what I'm sharing and just blah blah blah the same sh*t over and over and over again.  

How do you face no pressure but take sacks?   Makes zero sense.  And fwiw, a designed run play for a QB that is ends in a tackle for loss, is considered a sack.  You dont watch Justin Fields and see him egregiously taking sacks.   Which again, is why I just dont think you've done any work on Justin Fields.   You saw something once and that was that, your mind was made up.  It 's cool, dont care but dont act like that's not the case.

 

That's the narrative that the talking heads want to portray ( he can't progress through reads)  , so the masses read it, absorb it and regurgitate ad nauseum. 

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8 minutes ago, Peteo said:

My question is why has no Ohio State QB had any success in the NFL?  True Fields could be the first but when I watch him I see Terrell Pryor all over again.

Because they have not had the talent nor make-up? Every qb is different. Even if they play the same system. 

This would be like saying you go to the same bar all the time, and over several weeks tried to talk with many different women. While some of them may certainly be a "type" and go to that bar for a reason, if you really spend time and talk to them, you will find that thy are really pretty diverse and not alike at all. But you have to dive in and do the homework.

Trust me, I was turned down in many different forms, from many varied women at the same bar.

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7 minutes ago, Peteo said:

My question is why has no Ohio State QB had any success in the NFL?  True Fields could be the first but when I watch him I see Terrell Pryor all over again.

I put very little stock in how a college translates to NFL success.  Coaches change, players change, everything changes.  Pointing to a span of time that goes back more than 5 years or so is meaningless in this context.  ND gave us Montana and Theismann and also gave us Kiser, Quinn and Mirer.  Texas Tech gave us nothing until Mahomes.  I think it's a red herring.

 

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25 minutes ago, Reprisalizer said:

Lawrence demonstrated almost all of those qualities in that game against Ohio State.  Take a look again.  He is under pressure most of the game, makes WOW throws that are perfectly placed and kept his team in the entire game despite other stars (Etienne) not having a good night.  

Nothing is guaranteed but I don't need to question the established fact among professionals that Lawrence is an entire tier ahead of Fields.  Anyone who wants to argue otherwise is just wishing and hoping.  Find one professional scout or GM or former GM or coach that says Fields is the better prospect. 

So what you are saying is that you are influenced by the fact that the "professionals" have Lawrence an entire tier ahead of Fields. So that entitles you to project those claims to what your are watching with your own eyes. 

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13 minutes ago, nycdan said:

You won't.  Nobody meaningful is suggesting that.  Lawrence is the clear #1.  I think Fields is the clear #2 but some are still clinging to Wilson there.  I have given my reasons in other places about why I don't think it's even close, but at this point, we might as well wait and see what happens Monday night.  Another big game from Fields should completely shut down the Wilson train (but it won't).  More challenging would be a mediocre game.  For Jet fans, the 'OSU-Bama game is must-watch TV.

Monday's game should have minimal bearing on who GM's and scouts have rated where. They will look at the full body of work and do deep dive analysis on each . This nonsense if he has a good game/bad game will make the difference is complete lunacy. 

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10 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Monday's game should have minimal bearing on who GM's and scouts have rated where. They will look at the full body of work and do deep dive analysis on each . This nonsense if he has a good game/bad game will make the difference is complete lunacy. 

Oh I agree with you.  I am really referring to the Wilson fans who still think he's #2 ahead of Fields.  Another solid game from Fields *should* crumble those holdouts (all but a few).  Honestly, I think some of them are just squinting really hard to see Joe Burrow in Zach Wilson.  Maybe...but BYU isn't LSU and 2020 isn't 2019.  I think the gap between Fields and Wilson is at least as big, if not bigger, than the gap between Lawrence and Fields.

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53 minutes ago, Reprisalizer said:

Lawrence demonstrated almost all of those qualities in that game against Ohio State.  Take a look again.  He is under pressure most of the game, makes WOW throws that are perfectly placed and kept his team in the entire game despite other stars (Etienne) not having a good night.  

Nothing is guaranteed but I don't need to question the established fact among professionals that Lawrence is an entire tier ahead of Fields.  Anyone who wants to argue otherwise is just wishing and hoping.  Find one professional scout or GM or former GM or coach that says Fields is the better prospect. 

I'm not putting that game down as a big negative for Lawrence, but that is not that way I saw it at all. 

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10 minutes ago, Peteo said:

My question is why has no Ohio State QB had any success in the NFL?  True Fields could be the first but when I watch him I see Terrell Pryor all over again.

Other than Mahomes, which Texas Tech QBs went on to have successful NFL careers? Their all-time leading passer is Graham Harrell.

Wisconsin was the QB factory that gave the NFL Brooks Bollinger and Jim Sorgi. And then Russell Wilson. 

California produced 1st rounder Kyle Boller before Aaron Rodgers. And Bartkowski went there...about 50 years ago. 

Miami Ohio other than Roethlisberger?

Cam Newton made a name for himself at Auburn. So did...Jason Campbell? Dick Wood QB'd there when Eisenhower was president. Stidham couldn't displace a way-past-prime Cam (or even old Brian Hoyer)

Clemson QBs before Deshaun Watson?

All that history and Ryan Tannehill is the only Aggie QB worth a damn in the NFL. Also he's pretty good. 

Justin Herbert looks pretty damn good so far. Should the bolts have stayed away from him because of their recent & semi-recent busts like Akili Smith, Harrington, Mariota, Clemens, etc.?

 

I'm not a college football buff so I had to look most of this up. Point being: correlation isn't causation. Fields will be good or bad because he's a good or bad QB, not because he went to OSU. 

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7 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Oh I agree with you.  I am really referring to the Wilson fans who still think he's #2 ahead of Fields.  Another solid game from Fields *should* crumble those holdouts (all but a few).  Honestly, I think some of them are just squinting really hard to see Joe Burrow in Zach Wilson.  Maybe...but BYU isn't LSU and 2020 isn't 2019.  I think the gap between Fields and Wilson is at least as big, if not bigger, than the gap between Lawrence and Fields.

i think wilson could wind up being better than trevor, i think he's so good.  i know i'll get killed for saying this, but you watch wilson play and i see elite qb traits.  

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8 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Oh I agree with you.  I am really referring to the Wilson fans who still think he's #2 ahead of Fields.  Another solid game from Fields *should* crumble those holdouts (all but a few).  Honestly, I think some of them are just squinting really hard to see Joe Burrow in Zach Wilson.  Maybe...but BYU isn't LSU and 2020 isn't 2019.  I think the gap between Fields and Wilson is at least as big, if not bigger, than the gap between Lawrence and Fields.

I agree, I feel the gap between Fields and Wilson is further apart than the gap between Fields and Lawrence. I do feel confident that Lawrence will be the #1 pick , bottom line he's a great prospect , but the hype that has surrounded him is so overboard that any GM picking #1 would be taking a major PR risk by not taking him. 

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11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I'm not putting that game down as a big negative for Lawrence, but that is not that way I saw it at all. 

Clemson QB Trevor Lawrence: 33-of-48, 400 passing yards, 2 TD, 1 INT; 1 rushing TD

If anyone else on Clemson did anything, this would be an excellent game against Ohio State defense. 

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

My favorite part of this process, is the demands all you expert scouts needs to see from Fields.  All the stuff that translates, yet, literally nobody in the college game is doing this, at all.  

That's what's so funny. I said it before regarding what they need to see Justin Fields do before they draft him #2 overall. 

Then you see the list constitutes his being worthy of the 2nd pick. They need to see him have Dan Marinos arm, Tom Bradys smarts, Drew Brees quick release, Lamar Jacksons running ability, Russell Wilsons throws on the run ability. So...let's review...Jet fans will only consider Justin Fields at #2 if he's a sure fire HOFamer. 

Now I understand the thought process of trading back for a TE or WR. 

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21 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I'm not putting that game down as a big negative for Lawrence, but that is not that way I saw it at all. 

I saw a bunch of dump offs and about 4 nice ropes between 15/20 yards. That's about it. I saw runs to the outside where he was tackled almost immediately but had some lanes up the middle. 

If I had never seen these 2 guys play in my life & had to pick between them after that game? I'd take Fields & not look back! 

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12 minutes ago, Reprisalizer said:

Clemson QB Trevor Lawrence: 33-of-48, 400 passing yards, 2 TD, 1 INT; 1 rushing TD

If anyone else on Clemson did anything, this would be an excellent game against Ohio State defense. 

They were down by 3 scores by halftime.  You said he "kept them in the game"  I am not impressed with yardage stats under these circumstances.  His handling of the pressure seemed mixed and I wasn't wowed too often.  

BTW, I 'm sure that Cornell Powell is glad you're not his rep. 

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

If he faces pressure he takes a sack. 49 sacks is alarming.  Geno had this same issue at WV. Remember him at YS? That's what Fields looked like against Northwestern.

Weren't 22 players out with Covid that game? 

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17 minutes ago, Reprisalizer said:

Clemson QB Trevor Lawrence: 33-of-48, 400 passing yards, 2 TD, 1 INT; 1 rushing TD

If anyone else on Clemson did anything, this would be an excellent game against Ohio State defense. 

Question for you - what do defenses do when they have a big lead in a game. 

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11 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Question for you - what do defenses do when they have a big lead in a game. 

He kept his team in the entire game.  Remember?   

He also fumbled three times.  He only lost one, so I forgot about that.

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52 minutes ago, Reprisalizer said:

Clemson QB Trevor Lawrence: 33-of-48, 400 passing yards, 2 TD, 1 INT; 1 rushing TD

If anyone else on Clemson did anything, this would be an excellent game against Ohio State defense. 

+ 3 fumbles and 7, 3 and outs (5 in the first half).  

Stats aside for a second; no concerns that both times that you've seen TL in real adversity, that he seems to lose all composure both physically and mentally?  Both times he's become a mopey little chin down whiner?  His teammates in both situations, were the ones keeping him up, not the other way around.  

 

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3 hours ago, JiF said:

+ 3 fumbles and 7, 3 and outs (5 in the first half).  

Stats aside for a second; no concerns that both times that you've seen TL in real adversity, that he seems to lose all composure both physically and mentally?  Both times he's become a mopey little chin down whiner?  His teammates in both situations, were the ones keeping him up, not the other way around.  

 

Did they come to his birthday party?

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51 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Did they come to his birthday party?

Trevor Lawrence is not Bo Callahan. He has tremendous birthday parties. The best birthday parties.  Everyone wants to attend.  

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20 hours ago, Peteo said:

My question is why has no Ohio State QB had any success in the NFL?  True Fields could be the first but when I watch him I see Terrell Pryor all over again.

One read spread system in which all American WRs are always getting 5-10 yards separation against slow DBs

 

It’s the same reason why Big 12 QBs almost always suck in the nfl 

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