Sam could still turn it around... these QB's did after early struggles ~ ~ ~

[elvispookie]

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

And if he got all that'd, he'd just be a bad QB in a great situation.  Nothing more.  And whichever team had him would be looking to upgrade ASAP.  Similar to the way Andy Reid looked to move on from Alex Smith.  And Smith was actually pretty good...

Mark Sanchez?

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, Biggs said:

Sanchez, Locker and Trubisky were much better than Sam.  

Sanchez is hard to say. He walked into a pretty stacked team. When the team wasn't stacked anymore - even with 3 years starting experience under his belt - his numbers were even worse than Darnold's.

Year 4: 13 TDs, 18 INTs, 54% completion, with enough of a rushing game to take heat off him, and even a coach who loved him enough to get that stupid Sanchez tattoo on his body benched him for Greg McElroy. 

I'd call it about a wash. Maybe even give Sanchez a slight nod because he was streaky decent in between the streaky or baseline sucky, and it's unfair to just presume we wouldn't have been 1 & done as a WC team if it was Darnold that they'd carried instead. Devil his due & such, even though he also played poorly enough in the playoffs to blow the SD game in year 1 and the Indy game in year 2 (and were only there in year 1 because the last 2 games' starters were pulled). 

But I digest . 

[genot]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Isn't it interesting how everyone always says "we have to put better pieces around Sam" but no one ever seems to say "we have to get Mims Crowder a better QB." 

If you watched this year fairly, the second statement makes a lot more sense than the first. 

 

 

Crowder has done well with Darnold as his QB. Last year was his best of his career. Mims might become a real good receiver. Right now he's a big question mark.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, elvispookie said:

Who was she? you cant just throw that out here and walk away... you cant

It's not as exciting a story as it seems  

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Sanchez is hard to say. He walked into a pretty stacked team. When the team wasn't stacked anymore - even with 3 years starting experience under his belt - his numbers were even worse than Darnold's.

Year 4: 13 TDs, 18 INTs, 54% completion, with enough of a rushing game to take heat off him, and even a coach who loved him enough to get that stupid Sanchez tattoo on his body benched him for Greg McElroy. 

I'd call it about a wash. Maybe even give Sanchez a slight nod because he was streaky decent in between the streaky or baseline sucky, and it's unfair to just presume we wouldn't have been 1 & done as a WC team if it was Darnold that they'd carried instead. Devil his due & such, even though he also played poorly enough in the playoffs to blow the SD game in year 1 and the Indy game in year 2 (and were only there in year 1 because the last 2 games' starters were pulled). 

But I digest . 

Yeah this is a good summary. But in the end, guys do what they do and Darnold would kill for Sanchez resume 3 years in.

Not a fan of discounting QBs because they have good teams around them or assume something that there is no evidence of because the team is bad. They still need to make the throws.

[JohnnyLV]

49 minutes ago, kelly said:

...i understand how you would not want to mention the LAST name but could you at least tell us his FIRST name ?   ?

But what if the first name instantly made you know the last name. It's NEITHER of these but say I said Charlize or Scarlett....plus not sure it counts if it happened when they were a waitress

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yeah this is a good summary. But in the end, guys do what they do and Darnold would kill for Sanchez resume 3 years in.

Not a fan of discounting QBs because they have good teams around them or assume something that there is no evidence of because the team is bad. They still need to make the throws.

Kind of where I was going with it. Sanchez did have some moments in between his trash, and it's lazy to just presume Darnold would have a timely rise to the occasion also. Even the better player doesn't always prevail; you still have to actually do it.

Hence I gave the nod to the prior underage-girl-hunter than the current one lol. Yeah you forgot they had that in common, too, didn't you?

[Sonny Werblin]

Quote

Sam could still turn it around... these QB's did after early struggles

The list of QBs who failed to "turn it around" after early struggles is much, much longer.

[jgb]

8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Kind of where I was going with it. Sanchez did have some moments in between his trash, and it's lazy to just presume Darnold would have a timely rise to the occasion also. Even the better player doesn't always prevail; you still have to actually do it.

Hence I gave the nod to the prior underage-girl-hunter than the current one lol. Yeah you forgot they had that in common, too, didn't you?

Lol. Huge logic gap in the analysis of: Darnold plays poorly with a bad supporting cast thus will play good with a good one.

Much more likely he's just a bad QB. Every bad QB on a bad team is not a secret-FQB-in-disguise.

Put another way, I think it's more likely that Jets weaponz look better with a good QB than Darnold looks better with a better supporting cast.

"FQBs make their own weaponz, not the other way around"

[tfine]

You are missing the point.  How good was that Saints offense before Brees? Wasnt.  He comes in, a frachise qb in the making, and elevates it.  Now everything around him is perfect.  Franchise players elevate those around him.. Sam clearly doesnt elevate anyone.  In a super lost season, like we just had, I find it hilarious that old man Flacco started making Perriman look really good.  Flacco was elevating his play.. and Flacco is done.  But you get that young FQB in place.. thats what he is supposed to do.  
I will go to my grave saying this.. if you need a good line, good WRs, a good TE and a consistent running game.. you're not a franchise QB.   

Actually that’s not accurate at all. As a matter of fact nothing in the post is accurate. Sean Peyton and Brees got there at the same time. Brees was mediocre in SD and also had the greatest RB of all time and never won anything. SD gave up and actually drafted a QB. Peytons offensive system was perfect for him. Also the notion that a QB needs
to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t is to be a franchise QB is way overblown. Please name me last time a QB won a Super Bowl when the players around him suck. I’ll wait.









Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[kelly]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

But what if the first name instantly made you know the last name. It's NEITHER of these but say I said Charlize or Scarlett....plus not sure it counts if it happened when  * they  *  were a waitress

.. one of the above ?    * * 

[JohnnyLV]

14 minutes ago, kelly said:

.. one of the above ?    * * 

lol, wrong gender

[Sonny Werblin]

3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I had sex with a famous movie star actress once (before she was famous). 

I understand why you wouldn’t want to give her name, but how about you list 3 to 5 names and include hers among them?

[NYJ1]

8 hours ago, kelly said:

Sam Darnold did not play well in 2020.

He threw for a career-low 2,208 yards and only nine touchdowns while going 2-10. A shoulder injury that forced him to miss six games may have contributed – as well as a porous offensive line, a limited supporting cast and a bad coaching staff – but he still turned in his worst season as a pro.Joe Douglas did not commit to Darnold for next season, but that doesn’t mean he won’t be the starter in 2021. The Jets have a lot of options this season – especially with the second overall pick – and could decide to keep Darnold for one more season after hiring a new head coach – perhaps someone who can fix Darnold’s flaws.

Darnold isn’t a definitive lost cause, yet. There are quarterbacks who have turned their careers around after multiple years of early struggles. Darnold could be the next, even if it doesn’t happen in New York. While the Jets figure that out, here’s a look at four recent quarterbacks who played well after early struggles.

Ryan Tannehill

Tannehill had a solid two-season stint from 2014-2015, but his production declined afterward and the Dolphins traded him to the Titans. Tannehill performed well after taking over in Week 5 and led Tennessee to the AFC Championship. He went 7-3, completed a career-high 70.3 percent of his attempts, threw for 2,741 yards and 22 touchdowns, and led the NFL in yards per completion and quarterback rating.Tannehill really blossomed in 2020. He finished with 3,819 yards and a career-high 40 touchdowns – seven of which can on the ground.

Drew Brees

Brees averaged 3,031.8 yards, 19.8 touchdowns and a 62.3 percent completion percentage in his first five seasons as the starter of the San Diego Chargers. But when he joined the Saints and, under the tutelage of Sean Payton, he immediately posted a then-career best 4,418 yards and 26 passing touchdowns.Brees threw for more than 4,000 yards from 2006-2017 and averaged a 68.1 completion percentage, 4,841.4 yards and 34 passing touchdowns.

Alex Smith 

Smith looked like a bust after the 49ers picked him first overall in 2005. He had never thrown for more than 2,890 yards through his first five seasons and averaged more than 10 interceptions per season.But the 49ers hired Jim Harbaugh in 2011 and Smith turned in his best season as a pro: 3,144 yards, 17 touchdowns and just five interceptions. Smith was traded to the Chiefs a few years later, where he averaged 3,521.6 passing yards and 20.4 touchdowns per year in five seasons in Kansas City.He now plays in Washington.

Josh Allen

Allen – who was taken four picks after Darnold in 2018 – had a fantastic sophomore campaign in 2019 after his turnover-laden rookie season. Allen doubled his passing touchdowns from 10 to 20 and cut his interceptions from 12 to nine. He also improved his completion percentage from 52.8 to 58.8.He ratcheted his ability up even further this past season, recording 37 touchdowns, 4,544 yards and a completion percentage nearing 70 percent.Allen has had the same head coach-offensive coordinator combination, and the Bills upgraded his weapons over the past two seasons.

 

>  https://jetswire.usatoday.com/lists/jets-sam-darnold-quarterbacks-overcome-early-career-struggles-drew-brees-josh-allen/

 

STEVE YOUNG was never included in this! And that's the biggest example of how a QB can be down and out but NOT defeated. Steve Young dealt with a fledgling football league, the USFL, that eventually died and cost him the first like 3 years of his professional career. THen, he went to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers of the NFL. The Buccaneers at that time were a LAUGHINGSTOCK. Much like the Jets are now. He went just 3-16 for the Bucs. Then the Bucs decided to trade him because they thought he sucked and was ruined by his USFL days.

Well, a GREAT HC by the name of Bill Walsh rescued him knowing his bad start was due to horrible roster mismanagement and no supporting cast.

Does ANY of this sound familiar to the NEW YORK JETS OF 2020??????

Young went on to the 49ers and rest is history. Young became a HOF QB that won at least one SB as the starting QB of the 49ers.

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Sanchez is hard to say. He walked into a pretty stacked team. When the team wasn't stacked anymore - even with 3 years starting experience under his belt - his numbers were even worse than Darnold's.

Year 4: 13 TDs, 18 INTs, 54% completion, with enough of a rushing game to take heat off him, and even a coach who loved him enough to get that stupid Sanchez tattoo on his body benched him for Greg McElroy. 

I'd call it about a wash. Maybe even give Sanchez a slight nod because he was streaky decent in between the streaky or baseline sucky, and it's unfair to just presume we wouldn't have been 1 & done as a WC team if it was Darnold that they'd carried instead. Devil his due & such, even though he also played poorly enough in the playoffs to blow the SD game in year 1 and the Indy game in year 2 (and were only there in year 1 because the last 2 games' starters were pulled). 

But I digest . 

In 4 of 6 playoff games he had a QB rating over 90 and 3 of them were over 100.  Frankly Sam probably has more talent, but in a big game that counted Sanchez seemed to have the mental makeup to actually lift his game.  Perhaps Sam could do that, not sure?  Sanchez, at least to me exuded a little more self confidence and actually looked like he was having fun.  Sam looks like a tortured should who has had all the fun sucked out of him.  

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

In 4 of 6 playoff games he had a QB rating over 90 and 3 of them were over 100.  Frankly Sam probably has more talent, but in a big game that counted Sanchez seemed to have the mental makeup to actually lift his game.  Perhaps Sam could do that, not sure?  Sanchez, at least to me exuded a little more self confidence and actually looked like he was having fun.  Sam looks like a tortured should who has had all the fun sucked out of him.  

Yeah well others might have as well if the team didn't rescue the QB from the ones where it was far lower. Give him credit for his good performances, and no way I credit Darnold with "Aw, he'd have done the same thing if he had such a cushy situation," but eff both of these HS girl chasers. 

[Jetscode1]

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Or the second coming of DeShone Kizer.  Or Mark Sanchez.  Or Paxton Lynch.  Or Christian Ponder.  Or Jake Locker.  Or Brady Quinn.  Or Brock Osweiler.  Or Geno Smith.  Or EJ Manuel.  Or Tim Couch.  Or Mitchell Trubisky.  Or Brandon Weeden.  Or Blaine Gabbert.  Or Jimmy Clausen.  Or Josh Freeman.  Or John Beck.  Or Matt Leinart.  Or J.P. Losman.  Or Kyle Boller.  Or Patrick Ramsey.  

Darnold needs to go.  

[GaryM]

9 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Are you related to Sam? Serious question because that’s the only way I can see someone wanting to keep Sam under these circumstances. 

You are going to be real surprised then when JD keeps him and drafts Sewell. I don't think he is related to Sam either.

[southparkcpa]

10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Or the second coming of DeShone Kizer.  Or Mark Sanchez.  Or Paxton Lynch.  Or Christian Ponder.  Or Jake Locker.  Or Brady Quinn.  Or Brock Osweiler.  Or Geno Smith.  Or EJ Manuel.  Or Tim Couch.  Or Mitchell Trubisky.  Or Brandon Weeden.  Or Blaine Gabbert.  Or Jimmy Clausen.  Or Josh Freeman.  Or John Beck.  Or Matt Leinart.  Or J.P. Losman.  Or Kyle Boller.  Or Patrick Ramsey.  

That’s some Fukkin list!!!!!

[southparkcpa]

3 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I understand why you wouldn’t want to give her name, but how about you list 3 to 5 names and include hers among them?

The gal from Progressive insurance is my guess. 

[jetswinbaby!]

Sam could still turn it around... these QB's did after early struggles ~ ~ ~

 

[oatmeal]

55 minutes ago, GaryM said:

You are going to be real surprised then when JD keeps him and drafts Sewell. I don't think he is related to Sam either.

If you think a new coach and a GM will keep a bottom 3 QB since entering the league, they didn’t draft who they have to make a 25 million dollar option on in May...  I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn 

[Facts]

Look at him.

Really look at him.

Does this look like a franchise QB to you?

[jgb]

3 hours ago, GaryM said:

You are going to be real surprised then when JD keeps him and drafts Sewell. I don't think he is related to Sam either.

It’s possible. Not even JD knows what he’s going to do in the draft, yet.

But I have to think it’s very unlikely. One of the big draws for a candidate to take a HC position is a new “fresh” QB to mold. Hitching the wagon to Darnold will again leave us with candidates who don’t have other options. And riddle me this: if JD has reasonable hope in Sam turning it around, why did he make no effort to invest around him this year? All signs are he was clearing decks to build around a QB that he drafts/acquires.

[Dunnie]

The Jets have to decide on the 5th year option before he plays another snap.. which is 25 million. 

Or work a sweetheart deal w him based on his performance... no 5th year option ... agree to negotiate in free agency hoping good faith of keeping him means something if he turns it around.



Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Philc1]

No it’s impossible for Sam to improve with better coaching and supporting cast

 

[kelly]

9 hours ago, Facts said:

Look at him.

Really look at him.

Does this look like a franchise QB to you?

yes !  ?..and so does this one  ?

 

[elvispookie]

15 hours ago, tfine said:

 

Actually that’s not accurate at all. As a matter of fact nothing in the post is accurate. Sean Peyton and Brees got there at the same time. Brees was mediocre in SD and also had the greatest RB of all time and never won anything. SD gave up and actually drafted a QB. Peytons offensive system was perfect for him. Also the notion that a QB needs
to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t is to be a franchise QB is way overblown. Please name me last time a QB won a Super Bowl when the players around him suck. I’ll wait.









Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Your 2001 New England Patriots - wow.. look at those household names... 

[Jetsfan80]

18 hours ago, elvispookie said:

Mark Sanchez?

Exactly.

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, elvispookie said:

Your 2001 New England Patriots - wow.. look at those household names... 

Matt Light & Damien Woody were decade long really good offensive lineman this league. Troy Brown was a damn good football player. 

But also, I mean, it was Tom Brady + Bill Belichick. You’re talking about the best QB and coach to ever do it, and they were on the same team at the same time. 

Those two end up being the exception to nearly every rule, argument or observation that’s ever brought up. And they’re virtually impossible to emulate. 

[Augustiniak]

10 hours ago, jgb said:

It’s possible. Not even JD knows what he’s going to do in the draft, yet.

But I have to think it’s very unlikely. One of the big draws for a candidate to take a HC position is a new “fresh” QB to mold. Hitching the wagon to Darnold will again leave us with candidates who don’t have other options. And riddle me this: if JD has reasonable hope in Sam turning it around, why did he make no effort to invest around him this year? All signs are he was clearing decks to build around a QB that he drafts/acquires.

i agree on all counts.  douglas seemed to know not to spend in FA and most of his moves including the adams trade was all geared towards a complete rebuild this offseason including a new HC and qb.  

the biggest draws for this hc job are 1) 2nd pick in draft to get preferred qb, 2) multiple day 1 picks next 2 yrs and 3) cap space.  new hc does not want to be hamstrung with qb he doesn't like or believe in and not enough money/draft picks to compete quickly.

[elvispookie]

18 hours ago, johnnysd said:

It's not as exciting a story as it seems  

Yeah but go ahead anyway... and we need her name... *goes and gets popcorn

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

i agree on all counts.  douglas seemed to know not to spend in FA and most of his moves including the adams trade was all geared towards a complete rebuild this offseason including a new HC and qb.  

the biggest draws for this hc job are 1) 2nd pick in draft to get preferred qb, 2) multiple day 1 picks next 2 yrs and 3) cap space.  new hc does not want to be hamstrung with qb he doesn't like or believe in and not enough money/draft picks to compete quickly.

Yes, if JD is going to stick with Darnold why delay the rebuild by a year? I suppose the counter-argument could be that he was going all-in on Trevor and now that we won't get him, JD's backup plan is Darnold. I would really lose respect for JD if he sacrificed a season for the small chance to get one guy and since that didn't happen, his whole plan is shredded.

[elvispookie]

Just now, RedBeardedSavage said:

Matt Light & Damien Woody were decade long really good offensive lineman this league. Troy Brown was a damn good football player. 

But also, I mean, it was Tom Brady + Bill Belichick. You’re talking about the best QB and coach to ever do it, and they were on the same team at the same time. 

Those two end up being the exception to nearly every rule, argument or observation that’s ever brought up. And they’re virtually impossible to emulate. 

But you just said my point.  Tom Brady became a FQB.. he could take a team of nobodies and make them a household name.  It didnt matter who you put with him.. they were going to get the ball. He made them better. He lifted their play.  BTW, before Tom Brady came on the scene the highest yardage total for Troy Brown was 607 - and that was in about 6 years of playing.  So not so good.  But you know his name now.. why? Because a compentant QB delivered him the ball. Everyone benefits from it.  The line looks better.. the running game opens up... defense is off the field more.  

I was a huge Sam supporter.. up til mid 2019 season.  Some guys just have it.  My eye test tells me he does not.  Like I said when we started this exchange.. the things that Sam CAN control.. he doesnt do well.  I wish him the best but I root for the name on the front of the jersey - not the back.

[RedBeardedSavage]

5 minutes ago, elvispookie said:

But you just said my point.  Tom Brady became a FQB.. he could take a team of nobodies and make them a household name.  It didnt matter who you put with him.. they were going to get the ball. He made them better. He lifted their play.  BTW, before Tom Brady came on the scene the highest yardage total for Troy Brown was 607 - and that was in about 6 years of playing.  So not so good.  But you know his name now.. why? Because a compentant QB delivered him the ball. Everyone benefits from it.  The line looks better.. the running game opens up... defense is off the field more.  

I was a huge Sam supporter.. up til mid 2019 season.  Some guys just have it.  My eye test tells me he does not.  Like I said when we started this exchange.. the things that Sam CAN control.. he doesnt do well.  I wish him the best but I root for the name on the front of the jersey - not the back.

I said Tom Brady is the exception and shouldn’t be referenced in any argument.

He was a 6th round pick that became the best quarterback ever. 

And by far, most quarterbacks that succeed in this league were developed in good situations with talent around them. We probably ruined Sam. But no way am I putting another rookie into that meat grinder without drastically improving the roster first.