Sam could still turn it around... these QB's did after early struggles ~ ~ ~

[Augustiniak]

18 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yes, if JD is going to stick with Darnold why delay the rebuild by a year? I suppose the counter-argument could be that he was going all-in on Trevor and now that we won't get him, JD's backup plan is Darnold. I would really lose respect for JD if he sacrificed a season for the small chance to get one guy and since that didn't happen, his whole plan is shredded.

agreed.  plus since he's hiring a new HC, you have to assume the new HC will want a new qb so douglas can even pin that decision on the new HC. 

i still think most likely any new HC will push for either fields or wilson and douglas knows this and is just letting the whole thing play itself out.  in the meantime he's trying to keep darnold's trade value as high as possible.  

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

agreed.  plus since he's hiring a new HC, you have to assume the new HC will want a new qb so douglas can even pin that decision on the new HC. 

i still think most likely any new HC will push for either fields or wilson and douglas knows this and is just letting the whole thing play itself out.  in the meantime he's trying to keep darnold's trade value as high as possible.  

Yep and rookie QBs generally give a new HC a grace period. Come onto a team with a veteran QB and the pressure to produce early is higher.

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yep and rookie QBs generally give a new HC a grace period. Come onto a team with a veteran QB and the pressure to produce early is higher.

i think by april we'll see wilson and fields basically even, and rumors of douglas wanting to trade back but the new hc wanting a new guy to groom.  i think any darnold trade will happen only a few days before the draft.

[jgb]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

i think by april we'll see wilson and fields basically even, and rumors of douglas wanting to trade back but the new hc wanting a new guy to groom.  i think any darnold trade will happen only a few days before the draft.

I don't see it with Wilson at all. Admittedly, I don't know much about him.

Regarding timing of Darnold trade, it's an interesting question of timing. I go back and forth as to whether it's better to trade him before or after draft. If pressed, I'd have to say a trade immediately after draft is most likely. Usually, teams in the QB market want to see how the first round or two of draft plays out (maybe someone falls to them) before acquiring one.

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

I don't see it with Wilson at all. Admittedly, I don't know much about him.

Regarding timing of Darnold trade, it's an interesting question of timing. I go back and forth as to whether it's better to trade him before or after draft. If pressed, I'd have to say a trade immediately after draft is most likely. Usually, teams in the QB market want to see how the first round or two of draft plays out (maybe someone falls to them) before acquiring one.

usually, but with darnold, i think the teams that will be most interested in him are the playoff teams that probably are not in the market for a qb in the 2nd/3rd round, and may want to do a trade before the draft so they're not in limbo.  

[jgb]

On 1/8/2021 at 5:10 PM, Augustiniak said:

usually, but with darnold, i think the teams that will be most interested in him are the playoff teams that probably are not in the market for a qb in the 2nd/3rd round, and may want to do a trade before the draft so they're not in limbo.  

Before draft I think you're going to get teams looking to acquire him as depth/reclamation project. After draft, maybe you get lucky and a desperate team brings him in as a starter and thus parts with more to get him.

[tfine]

Your 2001 New England Patriots - wow.. look at those household names... 

Lol of course you would pick the 2001 Pats. A team that’s a unicorn and no other team has been able to mimic. For the record Troy Brown would be a WR1 on the Jets right now. That’s how bad roster is. Pretty sure David Patten would as well. Your also missing the fact that that Defense created a lot of turnovers and the fact that Brady benefited from Spygate. Try to pick another team.





Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

[elvispookie]

4 hours ago, tfine said:

 

Lol of course you would pick the 2001 Pats. A team that’s a unicorn and no other team has been able to mimic. For the record Troy Brown would be a WR1 on the Jets right now. That’s how bad roster is. Pretty sure David Patten would as well. Your also missing the fact that that Defense created a lot of turnovers and the fact that Brady benefited from Spygate. Try to pick another team.





Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

 

1999 Titans

great WRs... no? Almost all superbowl teams have a very good QB.. if not Franchise.  They make those around better. You cannot say that a true FQB doesnt make everyone around them better. QB is THE most important position.. i hope we can agree on that.  The fact that Sam needs others around him to make him better is the problem.  He should be the guy we build around.  Otherwise, you end up with Mark Sanchez.. great team around him with nothing to show at QB.  

 

[tfine]

1999 Titans

great WRs... no? Almost all superbowl teams have a very good QB.. if not Franchise.  They make those around better. You cannot say that a true FQB doesnt make everyone around them better. QB is THE most important position.. i hope we can agree on that.  The fact that Sam needs others around him to make him better is the problem.  He should be the guy we build around.  Otherwise, you end up with Mark Sanchez.. great team around him with nothing to show at QB.  
 

They didn’t win the Super Bowl and they ran Eddie George til his legs fell off. 12 td and 8 ints with a 56% completion percentage? Franchise QB? Please by today’s standards he would be a bust.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[tfine]

1999 Titans

great WRs... no? Almost all superbowl teams have a very good QB.. if not Franchise.  They make those around better. You cannot say that a true FQB doesnt make everyone around them better. QB is THE most important position.. i hope we can agree on that.  The fact that Sam needs others around him to make him better is the problem.  He should be the guy we build around.  Otherwise, you end up with Mark Sanchez.. great team around him with nothing to show at QB.  
 

I’m not saying a true franchise QB doesn’t make anyone better. Just saying it takes time to get to that point. Even the great Peyton Manning had serious question marks early in his career of being too turnover prone and he had an all world supporting cast.




Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[kelly]

23 hours ago, tfine said:

I’m not saying a true franchise QB doesn’t make anyone better. Just saying it takes time to get to that point. Even the great Peyton Manning had serious question marks early in his career of being too turnover prone and he had an all world supporting cast.

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

agreed !  ?.. there is a  " Learning curve "   

[Shelbyblue]

In this situation the money comes into play, you can build with the money saved by turning back clock. It's that simple.

[football guy]

1 minute ago, Shelbyblue said:

In this situation the money comes into play, you can build with the money saved by turning back clock. It's that simple.

This would be the case if we already had an expensive veteran roster with a bunch of guys from the 2016-19 drafts requiring extensions. Douglas won't be a big spending in free agency after this year - it's not his style. The only players who will not be easily replaceable and will cost a lot of money within the next 5 years: 

• S Marcus Maye (UFA 2021): top 5 position salary
• DL Quinnen Williams (UFA 2024): top 5 position salary
• WR Denzel Mims (UFA 2024): top 30 position salary
• CB Bryce Hall (UFA 2024): top 30 position salary
• LT Mekhi Becton (UFA 2025): top 5 position salary 

Lol we're awful 

[jgb]

On 1/7/2021 at 9:05 PM, johnnysd said:

I had sex with a famous movie star actress once (before she was famous). The odds of her calling me for a booty call is much higher than  Sam finding the light.

I have used Brees myself as the argument for him blossoming but to be honest I just don't see it.

In Sam's first year he seemed super coachable and seem to get better each game.

But now he seems WAY more like Sanchez and Geno just never ever learning and developing and making the same mistakes over and over, almost stubbornly.

It's possible but super unlikely.

Barely related story. Friend had a very beautiful fiancee in college. He was madly in love and legitimately one of the best people I know. She dumped him because she had been to Cabo for Spring Break and hooked up with a Hollywood actor and he had apparently made tons of promises to her about wanting a serious relationship or whatever and she thought she hit the jackpot. My friend was devastated but don’t worry this has a happy ending.

So couple weeks later actor flies her out to LA to hang out — first class not private jet, it wasn’t Tom Cruise or something as you’ll soon see. She gets moved up to an earlier flight and decides to take a taxi to his place and surprise him. Shows up at his crib and what does she see? An actual, no sheet orgy with actor dude in the middle. Now for the reveal: the actor who she dumped my friend for after a drunk Spring Break hook up? Paulie Effing Shore.

My friend is now a multi-millionaire surgeon and she’s 40, still single and still hitting the club circuit trying to land someone famous.

Whenever I see him now we always watch a Paulie Shore movie with his wife and beautiful kids. His wife is like “Why do you like this guy’s movies? He sucks!”

We just smile and say, “We just do.”

[JohnnyLV]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

Barely related story. Friend had a very beautiful fiancee in college. He was madly in love and legitimately one of the best people I know. She dumped him because she had been to Cabo for Spring Break and hooked up with a Hollywood actor and he had apparently made tons of promises to her about wanting a serious relationship or whatever and she thought she hit the jackpot. My friend was devastated but don’t worry this has a happy ending.

So couple weeks later actor flies her out to LA to hang out — first class not private jet. She gets moved up to an earlier flight and decides to take a taxi to his place and surprise him. Shows up at his crib and what does she see? An actual, no sheet orgy with actor dude in the middle. Now for the reveal: the actor who she dumped my friend for after a Spring Break hook up? Paulie Effing Shore.

My friend is now a multi-millionaire surgeon and she’s 40, still single and still hitting the club circuit trying to land someone famous.

Whenever I see him now we always watch a Paulie Shore movie with his wife and beautiful kids. His wife is like “why do you like this guy’s movies, he sucks!”

We just smile and say, “We just do.”

Wow, that's better than mine because he was famous at time, but suckier because he is a scumbag.

[jgb]

Just now, johnnysd said:

Wow, that's better than mine because he was famous at time, but suckier because he is a scumbag.

No, yours is better because it happened to you  

[Shockwave]

On 1/7/2021 at 2:46 PM, RedBeardedSavage said:

I don't even care about Darnold anymore. I just think it's absolutely ridiculous to assume a new, rookie quarterback not named Trevor Lawrence, is going to improve this team. 

There are so many other ways we can bolster this team, and should bolster this team, before we take another quarterback high again. 

We could always take a Box safety top 10 and wait for a QB class of 2021. The above rationale worked out well for us before. 

[jgb]

Just now, Shockwave said:

We could always take a Box safety top 10 and wait for a QB class of 2021. The above rationale worked out well for us before. 

People are understandably gun shy about drafting a QB high after our recent misadventures but the only way to score is to shoot

[JohnnyLV]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

No, yours is better because it happened to you  

I guess. Fame is a weird thing. I once met the biggest rock star in Russia. Like the guy can't (at the time at least, it was 10 or more years ago) even go outside without getting mobbed. So he lives in San Diego for 6 months a year. But I never heard of the guy, still don't remember his name. But I was talking and playing music sort of with someone that a person in Russia might give a kidney to do that and it meant nothing to me.

Plus my experience was with a waitress that just happened to become super famous. I

[RedBeardedSavage]

22 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

We could always take a Box safety top 10 and wait for a QB class of 2021. The above rationale worked out well for us before. 

Definitely no thanks to that... but like Ja Marr Chase or Penei Sewell? 

[WillTheJetseverbegoodagain]

I believe that too. Joe Douglas has to give Darnold a competent HC & some more quality receivers and a few  offensive lineman. Douglas must have a great draft again and spend the abundance of money wisely on help for Darnold.

[football guy]

It’s less about whether he turns it around and more about the value of the #2 pick. 

I’m not convinced the Jets will take a QB at #2 regardless if Sam is here or not

[Philc1]

9 hours ago, jgb said:

People are understandably gun shy about drafting a QB high after our recent misadventures but the only way to score is to shoot

Name me the successful Ohio St QBs in the nfl

[oatmeal]

On 1/7/2021 at 2:56 PM, RedBeardedSavage said:

What's their record?

Stop moving the goal post, it’s not about the record it’s about the QBs play(Texans record blows but Watson still balled out)that’s what franchise QBs do period.

 And by your backwards logic if “we aren’t in a position to develop a QB right now” Darnold won't fare well next year either, because if a rookie stands no chance with what we would have going into next year, why would a 4th year player who’s play level and stats are bottom 5, fair any better?
 

It’s actually smarter to hedge your bets on the rookie

Picking who ever at #2 to help darnold won’t improve his happy feet, poor decision making and limited ability to read a nfl defense. A new coach and Joe Douglas will get more time and patience with a rookie QB. 
 

This situation is not rocket science, you darnold fans will be sad in April ?‍♂️

[Philc1]

6 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Stop moving the goal post, it’s not about the record it’s about the QBs play(Texans record blows but Watson still balled out)that’s what franchise QBs do period.

 And by your backwards logic if “we aren’t in a position to develop a QB right now” Darnold won't fare well next year either, because if a rookie stands no chance with what we would have going into next year, why would a 4th year player who’s play level and stats are bottom 5, fair any better?
 

It’s actually smarter to hedge your bets on the rookie

Picking who ever at #2 to help darnold won’t improve his happy feet, poor decision making and limited ability to read a nfl defense. A new coach and Joe Douglas will get more time and patience with a rookie QB. 
 

This situation is not rocket science, you darnold fans will be sad in April ?‍♂️

Fields is going to bust

[jgb]

41 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Name me the successful Ohio St QBs in the nfl

Name me the successful Clemson QB in the NFL before Watson.

Name me the successful Texas Tech QB in the NFL before Mahomes.

Name me the successful BYU QB in the NFL before Steve Young.

Good QBs are the rarest thing in sport. The sample size is too small to draw any conclusions with statistical confidence as to which schools—if any—are better at producing them. This is additionally demonstrated by the fact that there are no “QB factories” that consistently pump out successful NFL QBs.

[jgb]

11 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I guess. Fame is a weird thing. I once met the biggest rock star in Russia. Like the guy can't (at the time at least, it was 10 or more years ago) even go outside without getting mobbed. So he lives in San Diego for 6 months a year. But I never heard of the guy, still don't remember his name. But I was talking and playing music sort of with someone that a person in Russia might give a kidney to do that and it meant nothing to me.

Plus my experience was with a waitress that just happened to become super famous. I

I bet Russian rock stars know how to party lol. Guy probably enjoyed hanging out with you because you didn’t treat him how a crazed fan would.

How super famous we talking? Like A list movie star?

[jgb]

2 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Stop moving the goal post, it’s not about the record it’s about the QBs play(Texans record blows but Watson still balled out)that’s what franchise QBs do period.

 And by your backwards logic if “we aren’t in a position to develop a QB right now” Darnold won't fare well next year either, because if a rookie stands no chance with what we would have going into next year, why would a 4th year player who’s play level and stats are bottom 5, fair any better?
 

It’s actually smarter to hedge your bets on the rookie

Picking who ever at #2 to help darnold won’t improve his happy feet, poor decision making and limited ability to read a nfl defense. A new coach and Joe Douglas will get more time and patience with a rookie QB. 
 

This situation is not rocket science, you darnold fans will be sad in April ?‍♂️

I love how some argue Watson isn’t that good because Texans has a bad record but use Jets bad record as “proof” that Darnold’s supporting cast stinks and he will improve with weapoinz. ?‍♂️ 

[Jets723]

I’m still a firm believer in Sam.  Did he have a bad year?  Of course he did  I won’t deny that.  But I think we can all agree no matter what your stance is on the QB situation that this organization failed this kid.  When you have piss poor coaching , no protection, and little to no weapons you are going to struggle.  Even Gase who never takes responsibility for anything admitted he failed the kid.Now I’m also a firm believer in Douglas so if he wants to move on I’m totally on board.  But if he wants to keep Sam and trade down To acquire even more assets I’m on board with that too because more than anything we need to build a strong team regardless of who the QB is 

[oatmeal]

21 minutes ago, jgb said:

I love how some argue Watson isn’t that good because Texans has a bad record but use Jets bad record as “proof” that Darnold’s supporting cast stinks and he will improve with weapoinz. ?‍♂️ 

It’s just idiotic at his point, grasping for every straw in America to save the literal worst QB in the league. 

And to think Seattle has a portion of the fan base who wants to trade Russell Wilson(a guy on a hall of fame career trajectory) Jets fans are convincing themselves everything bad they’ve seen from Darnold is solely Todd Bowles and Adam Gases fault. SMFH 

 

I hate this stupid ass fanbase sometimes 

[oatmeal]

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Fields is going to bust

I can respect this position, but the delusional part of the fan base that think it’s smart to “extend Sam cheaply” or “hes Ryan Tannehill” I have no more words for. 
 

Besides if Joe Douglas and future Coach thinks Sam is the best option moving forward we will have a new GM in 2 years and potentially a new coach. Am I being negative? No this is common sense that the odds favor Sam being a bust more than they do Sam turning it around, similar to how most of the fan base knew Gase would fail when he was hired by us.
 

99.9% of players and coaches that enter the NFL’s bottom stay there and don’t return, then eventually they’re pushed out the league.  
 

It’s just getting real stupid at this point 

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

I bet Russian rock stars know how to party lol. Guy probably enjoyed hanging out with you because you didn’t treat him how a crazed fan would.

How super famous we talking? Like A list movie star?

Yeah my friend worked at a music store in downtown San Diego which is how he met him and yes that is exactly it he was just a regular guy here.

Everyone on this board would know her name

[RedBeardedSavage]

3 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Stop moving the goal post, it’s not about the record it’s about the QBs play(Texans record blows but Watson still balled out)that’s what franchise QBs do period.

 And by your backwards logic if “we aren’t in a position to develop a QB right now” Darnold won't fare well next year either, because if a rookie stands no chance with what we would have going into next year, why would a 4th year player who’s play level and stats are bottom 5, fair any better?
 

It’s actually smarter to hedge your bets on the rookie

Picking who ever at #2 to help darnold won’t improve his happy feet, poor decision making and limited ability to read a nfl defense. A new coach and Joe Douglas will get more time and patience with a rookie QB. 
 

This situation is not rocket science, you darnold fans will be sad in April ?‍♂️

You keep making it about Darnold.

I keep saying we can wait a year to draft a quarterback and build out the rest of the team first.

Do you see the distinction? 

[football guy]

3 hours ago, oatmeal said:

I can respect this position, but the delusional part of the fan base that think it’s smart to “extend Sam cheaply” or “hes Ryan Tannehill” I have no more words for. 
 

Besides if Joe Douglas and future Coach thinks Sam is the best option moving forward we will have a new GM in 2 years and potentially a new coach. Am I being negative? No this is common sense that the odds favor Sam being a bust more than they do Sam turning it around, similar to how most of the fan base knew Gase would fail when he was hired by us.
 

99.9% of players and coaches that enter the NFL’s bottom stay there and don’t return, then eventually they’re pushed out the league.  
 

It’s just getting real stupid at this point 

You are experiencing the same thing that Darnold truthers are experiencing: partisanship. You have a view and feel so strongly about that view, citing inconsistent/incomplete information and optics to formulate a position. You have a faulty view just as those you criticize do.

Banking on Darnold is ludicrous, but having a hardline stance that he can’t improve is also ludicrous. 

Furthermore, the situation is more complex than either narrative. Can you name how many teams who opted to take a QB in their coaches’ first year? How are those teams doing? Similarly, how many teams opted to accumulate draft capital instead of filling their QB need? How are they doing? It goes beyond Sam

 

[Chrebetfan80]

4 minutes ago, football guy said:

You are experiencing the same thing that Darnold truthers are experiencing: partisanship. You have a view and feel so strongly about that view, citing inconsistent/incomplete information and optics to formulate a position. You have a faulty view just as those you criticize do.

Banking on Darnold is ludicrous, but having a hardline stance that he can’t improve is also ludicrous. 

Furthermore, the situation is more complex than either narrative. Can you name how many teams who opted to take a QB in their coaches’ first year? How are those teams doing? Similarly, how many teams opted to accumulate draft capital instead of filling their QB need? How are they doing? It goes beyond Sam

 

Also people need to stop with the narrative that a New HC is "hitching his wagon to sam". A one year trial is not "hitching your wagon to sam".  By that logic if sam bombed next year the coach should be fired since he "hitched his wagon to him"

 

Its a ridiculous proposal.  Any coach coming in and wanting to work with sam will have the opportunity to try to turn him around, and if he fails again, the opportunity to either try with veteran FA or draft another prospect next year.  The QB position under JD is going to be way more fluid than anyone realizes and there are many ways to fill the need.