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1 minute ago, jetophile said:

Then people need to make up their minds definitively how much off-the-field actions should or shouldn't matter.

Hey, once you allow Ray Lewis to come back to the league so easily, the horse is out of the barn.

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The 2021 Hall of Fame finalist list was released and , surprise , no Joe Klecko . This is disgraceful . What's wrong with the New York pro football writers ? Do they have their heads up their ass or w

He's not getting in because he doesn't deserve to. He was a great Jet.  He is beloved by his fanbase.  That shall suffice. SAR I

Says the man who proclaimed that Mark Sanchez was a better QB than Joe Namath.

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11 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

There is not one thing that I can argue there. And, the NFL does not even care about competitive balance and has favorite son franchises. But, I digress.

Ya caught me in the midst of honing my thought. In the end I don't think we're disagreeing with one another. I think we're just looking at it through a slightly different kaleidoscope. 

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12 minutes ago, jetophile said:

The NFL is a hypocritical fish that rots from the head down. They have countless times looked the other way while talking out of both sides of their mouths about the Integrity of the product. I always fall back on my opinion that Adam Jones should never have been allowed back into the league. He was for one reason and one reason only: to pave the way for The Dog Killer to be reinstated. I will always stick by that opinion. 

Guys like Pac man and vick get reinstated but neither is hall of fame worthy. 

Everybody seems to assume there's a double standard but I can't find any hall of fame players who were convicted of a felony before their enshrining. Even guys like oj simpson that all happened after they made his bust. 

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Just now, jetophile said:

Ya caught me in the midst of honing my thought. In the end I don't think we're disagreeing with one another. I think we just looking at it through a slightly different kaleidoscope. 

We are aligned. Sorry you have to wear that badge.

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Just now, bitonti said:

Guys like Pac man and vick get reinstated but neither is hall of fame worthy. 

Everybody seems to assume there's a double standard but I can't find any hall of fame players who were convicted of a felony before their enshrining. Even guys like oj simpson that all happened after they made his bust. 

As mentioned, Ray Lewis was charged with obstruction of justice and plead guilty.

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8 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Hey, once you allow Ray Lewis to come back to the league so easily, the horse is out of the barn.

I can't stand Ray Lewis, lol. I'll get into that another time, but good one.

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11 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Hey, once you allow Ray Lewis to come back to the league so easily, the horse is out of the barn.

Ray Lewis was accused of obstruction of justice. He paid a fine and served no time. The two other people were acquitted. As you say there's a difference between obstruction and getting fined and fraud and getting 3 months in federal prison. 

All this is to say I think Ray Lewis has a cleaner record than Joe klecko 

Jets Fans would never believe that to be true, but there it is 

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Borderline HOF player who played in an era with lots of incredible defensive lineman.  I was shocked Hill went in who was much more deserving so don't give up hope.  He might get in but it's not a travesty that he's not in.  He was great for a short time but he had lots of peers who were just as good, played on championship teams and did it longer.  

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6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Guys like Pac man and vick get reinstated but neither is hall of fame worthy. 

Everybody seems to assume there's a double standard but I can't find any hall of fame players who were convicted of a felony before their enshrining. Even guys like oj simpson that all happened after they made his bust. 

Do you agree that they should have been reinstated? I know you carried on a lot at the time that they were just dogs as far as Vick goes, but what he really was in trouble for at the end of the day was gambling across state lines. Anyway, your point is duly noted, but what about Jim Brown? I guess beating women didn't really matter at the time that he was inducted. If his arrest came after he was inducted I'm sure he just didn't start slapping women around out of nowhere.

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1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Borderline HOF player who played in an era with lots of incredible defensive lineman.  I was shocked Hill went in who was much more deserving so don't give up hope.  He might get in but it's not a travesty that he's not in.  He was great for a short time but he had lots of peers who were just as good, played on championship teams and did it longer.  

He is not going to get in.  There is no momentum for it, the Jets bad performance, bad press, and bad fans aren't helping, and his Swiss Army Knife resume isn't appreciated either.

Klecko isn't getting snubbed; some fans have unrealistic expectations.

SAR I

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1 minute ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

Joe Klecko was no Adam Gase!

#Team_SAR_I

Be careful what you wish for.  Have you seen the coaching candidates on our short list?  Yikes.

At the rate of rejection we're experiencing, Joe Klecko may have to be our head coach.  He can earn his yellow jacket that way.

SAR I

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6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Ray Lewis was accused of obstruction of justice. He paid a fine and served no time. The two other people were acquitted. As you say there's a difference between obstruction and getting fined and fraud and getting 3 months in federal prison. 

All this is to say I think Ray Lewis has a cleaner record than Joe klecko 

Jets Fans would never believe that to be true, but there it is 

Ray Lewis served 2 weeks in jail. He was charged with murder, and then had it reduced to obstruction of justice for his cooperation. His cooperation led to no convictions of murder for anyone. It was termed "self defense".

Ray Lewis skated very easily.

 

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2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

He is not going to get in.  There is no momentum for it, the Jets bad performance, bad press, and bad fans aren't helping, and his Swiss Army Knife resume isn't appreciated either.

Klecko isn't getting snubbed; some fans have unrealistic expectations.

SAR I

More interesting is no Jets fans think Marvin Powell is being snubbed and he was an all pro tackle 3 times.  

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4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Be careful what you wish for.  Have you seen the coaching candidates on our short list?  Yikes.

At the rate of rejection we're experiencing, Joe Klecko may have to be our head coach.  He can earn his yellow jacket that way.

SAR I

Every time I read one of your posts on this site, it harkens me back to what Bill Parcells said about his then wife, Judy: Parcells said: "First of all, this is no disrespect to my wife Judy, because she's been in this for a long time. Judy doesn't know whether the ball is blown up or stuffed with feathers, OK?"

No offense meant. I just substitute Judy with Sar1.

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7 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Be careful what you wish for.  Have you seen the coaching candidates on our short list?  Yikes.

At the rate of rejection we're experiencing, Joe Klecko may have to be our head coach.  He can earn his yellow jacket that way.

SAR I

I give Gase full credit for the amazing accomplishments he had in his short tenure here.

He is by far one of the most impactful Jets figures of my lifetime.

If this team gets out of the swamp in the near future, Adam Gase will be the unspoken hero.

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7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Ray Lewis served 2 weeks in jail. He was charged with murder, and then had it reduced to obstruction of justice for his cooperation. His cooperation led to no convictions of murder for anyone. It was termed "self defense".

Ray Lewis skated very easily.

 

OK so Ray Lewis spent 2 weeks in jail he also has a much better football resume than klecko who spent 3m in jail. We're talking about 15x pro bowl sb champ, sb mvp from the linebacker position etc who pled to a lesser crime vs a 4x pro bowl guy in klecko with zero rings etc 

 

14 minutes ago, jetophile said:

Do you agree that they should have been reinstated? I know you carried on a lot at the time that they were just dogs as far as Vick goes, but what he really was in trouble for at the end of the day was gambling across state lines. Anyway, your point is duly noted, but what about Jim Brown? I guess beating women didn't really matter at the time that he was inducted. If his arrest came after he was inducted I'm sure he just didn't start slapping women around out of nowhere.

I believe that a man, once served his debt to society, deserves to make a living. Jim brown has a clean criminal record, despite all the accusations. He pled to a misdemeanor once 

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12 minutes ago, Biggs said:

More interesting is no Jets fans think Marvin Powell is being snubbed and he was an all pro tackle 3 times.  

61reMM0aZGL._AC_SY445_.jpg

That is an excellent point.

SAR I

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

OK so Ray Lewis spent 2 weeks in jail he also has a much better football resume than klecko who spent 3m in jail. We're talking about 15x pro bowl sb champ, sb mvp from the linebacker position etc who pled to a lesser crime vs a 4x pro bowl guy in klecko with zero rings etc 

 

I believe that a man, once served his debt to society, deserves to make a living. Jim brown has a clean criminal record, despite all the accusations. He pled to a misdemeanor once 

I don't disagree with anything you have to say here. 

But, what happened in Atlanta, and he was directly or indirectly involved with is a huge stain on his credibility and character. And, if pompous NFL writers and media are going to ignore that stain, then the Klecko "thing" should also be ignored. 

They can't have it be both ways, either character is a thing, or it isn't. There is a lot of hypocrisy involved. And I know you know this and respect all your opinions.

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1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

But, what happened in Atlanta, and he was directly or indirectly involved with is a huge stain on his credibility and character.

The guy he hit and killed with his SUV happened in the Bronx.

SAR I

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10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

OK so Ray Lewis spent 2 weeks in jail he also has a much better football resume than klecko who spent 3m in jail. We're talking about 15x pro bowl sb champ, sb mvp from the linebacker position etc who pled to a lesser crime vs a 4x pro bowl guy in klecko with zero rings etc 

 

I believe that a man, once served his debt to society, deserves to make a living. Jim brown has a clean criminal record, despite all the accusations. He pled to a misdemeanor once 

I don't even believe in second chances when it comes to that. I believe in 5th, 6th, and even 10th chances, because I'm kind of an idiot that way; it's just that serving your debt to society shouldn't mean that you're handed your old job back. That's like saying a cop who committed a really bad shooting, went to jail for second-degree murder and served his time should be allowed to be police officer again. No, he can serve his time and go be a busboy or re-invent himself altogether.  The second part is what I'm really behind. Society often makes it very difficult for people who commit petty crimes while others who commit something truly heinous don't suffer much to speak of. Look how long it took R. Kelly to get arrested.

The NFL, just like any other huge business, is a microcosm and a reflection of society at large in many ways. 

 

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6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The guy he hit and killed with his SUV happened in the Bronx.

SAR I

I am not familiar with that case, but if he was involved with something outside of the Atlanta murders that relates to criminality, that only deepens the stain.

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16 minutes ago, jetophile said:

I don't even believe in second chances when it comes to that. I believe in 5th, 6th, and even 10th chances, because I'm kind of an idiot that way; it's just that serving your debt to society shouldn't mean that you're handed your old job back. That's like saying a cop who committed a really bad shooting, went to jail for second-degree murder and served his time should be allowed to be police officer again. No, he can serve his time and go be a busboy or re-invent himself altogether.  

 

Vick and Pac man were hired not out of sympathy but because teams believed they had something left. Those teams wanted to purchase their labor despite their misdeeds and bad pr. The free market should allow this. After all, the supply of world class athletes is small and the demand is high 

To say otherwise is to create a blacklist, which we can all agree is un-American 

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Klecko didn't make the all decade teams in either the 70's or the 80's.  Here is the list from the 80's.

Reggie White, Howie Long, Lee Roy Selman, Bruce Smith, Randy White, Dan Hampton, Keith Mallard, Dave Butz.  

Hampton is a very comparable player to Klecko.  He was also a SB champion and played on arguably one of the top 2 or 3 defenses of all time.

Klecko is a borderline HOF player without the criminal issues.  He's not being snubbed.   

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15 hours ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

The 2021 Hall of Fame finalist list was released and , surprise , no Joe Klecko . This is disgraceful . What's wrong with the New York pro football writers ? Do they have their heads up their ass or what ? We want Klecko in the hall of fame before he's six feet under .

It sucks and it's bullsh*t but it's par for the course with the Hall.

But do any of those finalists have a dog this cool named after them? Klecko does:

 

20210107_152057.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Klecko didn't make the all decade teams in either the 70's or the 80's.  Here is the list from the 80's.

Reggie White, Howie Long, Lee Roy Selman, Bruce Smith, Randy White, Dan Hampton, Keith Mallard, Dave Butz.  

Hampton is a very comparable player to Klecko.  He was also a SB champion and played on arguably one of the top 2 or 3 defenses of all time.

Klecko is a borderline HOF player without the criminal issues.  He's not being snubbed.   

WRONG

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8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Vick and Pac man were hired not out of sympathy but because teams believed they had something left. Those teams wanted to purchase their labor despite their misdeeds and bad pr. The free market should allow this. After all, the supply of world class athletes is small and the demand is high 

To say otherwise is to create a blacklist, which we can all agree is un-American 

I think you're parsing the major point, really, although I do understand where you're coming from. I'll put it this way: if you were the owner of a small niche business, like book-binding, for example, would you try to take someone who is down on their luck who committed a minor crime under your wing and apprentice them or would you hire back your old employee who shot up the place just because he served his sentence? This isn't whataboutism, I'm just unclear what you think a "second chance" really means. I'm also unclear if you think that off-the-field behavior means anything or not, or whether it should or shouldn't.

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15 hours ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

The 2021 Hall of Fame finalist list was released and , surprise , no Joe Klecko . This is disgraceful . What's wrong with the New York pro football writers ? Do they have their heads up their ass or what ? We want Klecko in the hall of fame before he's six feet under .

It's not a "snub" at this point.

We, as a fanbase, likely just need to come to terms with the fact that the greater Sports world (i.e. the Voters) simply doesn't see Klecko as a HOF'er the way we do.

I don't think he ever gets in.  Not today.  Not ever.

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14 hours ago, SAR I said:

He's not getting in because he doesn't deserve to.

He was a great Jet.  He is beloved by his fanbase.  That shall suffice.

SAR I

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, but a strong case can be made for Klecko to be in the Hall.

Only defensive player in NFL history to make the pro-bowl at 2 different positions.

He had a year with over 20 sacks.  Those are facts.  

Opinions from Hall of Famers:  Offensive lineman from the Patriots who made the Hall of Fame lobbied for Klecko to make it, as well as the respected Howie Long.

Opposing teams needed to focus on Klecko, and I remember Don Shula specifically mentioning that they had to game-plan around Joe Klecko, and always know where he was on the field.

I realize my opinion matters no more than your opinion, but to me, there was Joe Namath, Don Maynard, then Joe Klecko in that order that were the greatest Jets of all time. 

Then you can make strong arguments that players who are currently in the Hall of Fame at Joe Klecko's position, are not the players that Joe Klecko was.  In essence, Joe Klecko was a more feared, better player than others currently in the Hall.

 

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1 minute ago, Alka said:

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, but a strong case can be made for Klecko to be in the Hall.

Only defensive player in NFL history to make the pro-bowl at 2 different positions.

He had a year with over 20 sacks.  Those are facts.  

Opinions from Hall of Famers:  Offensive lineman from the Patriots who made the Hall of Fame lobbied for Klecko to make it, as well as the respected Howie Long.

Opposing teams needed to focus on Klecko, and I remember Don Shula specifically mentioning that they had to game-plan around Joe Klecko, and always know where he was on the field.

I realize my opinion matters no more than your opinion, but to me, there was Joe Namath, Don Maynard, then Joe Klecko in that order that were the greatest Jets of all time. 

Then you can make strong arguments that players who are currently in the Hall of Fame at Joe Klecko's position, are not the players that Joe Klecko was.  In essence, Joe Klecko was a more feared, better player than others currently in the Hall.

 

A strong case can be made for why he shouldn't go in.  That's what a borderline HOF player is there are arguments on both sides.  

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's not a "snub" at this point.

We, as a fanbase, likely just need to come to terms with the fact that the greater Sports world (i.e. the Voters) simply doesn't see Klecko as a HOF'er the way we do.

I don't think he ever gets in.  Not today.  Not ever.

I was shocked Hill got in who in my opinion was much more dominant than Klecko and was arguably the best player on the field during the SB.  He pushed around defensive lineman and linebackers on the Colts who were outright feared.  He consistently got to the second level and stood out on the tape of that game as the best player on the field.  When you're great and you win a championship and you stand out in that game you deserve to go in.  Hill got in. 

Klecko may get in.  The NFL apparently does a pretty good job of reviewing players who were "snubbed" by the normal process.  

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