How Jets will resolve Sam Darnold dilemma? Todd McShay has a hunch

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jets723 said:

Oh well agree to disagree I guess

Disagreements lead to progress.

[Jets723]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

#1 rings very true. Just like us fans will cling to our previous assessments long after all evidence has demonstrated that we were wrong. This is especially true with QBs. There are still some here lying dormant now that will emerge like earthworms after rain next time Geno starts a game or throws a TD in mop up duty.

Again I think that’s an unfair assessment of fans.  They are t “earthworms” they ate pretty knowledgeable fans. Doesn’t mean you are right and they are wrong or vice versa  Nobody know what the future holds for the kid yet.  

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jets723 said:

Again I think that’s an unfair assessment of fans.  They are t “earthworms” they ate pretty knowledgeable fans.  Nobody know what the future holds for the kid yet.  

It's a simile.

And yes, no one knows. Just like no one knows who will win the SB this year. But there are odds.

[Jets723]

Just now, jgb said:

It's a simile.

I know 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

I know 

Well then thanks for pointing out the Geno's old defenders are not actual earthworms!

[Augustiniak]

11 minutes ago, jgb said:

This is why I believe we are not getting a premium pick in a Darnold trade. It's easy for GMs to talk anonymously how Darnold has the talent to turn it around but another to bet their careers on it. There will be teams interested in Darnold. He will come in as a backup. He will need to climb back to relevance like Tannehill, IMHO. Probably best for him, too. He needs a year on the bench and will probably benefit from it.

could you imagine the talk here if the jets were rumored to want to trade for darnold, what the compensation would have to be.  imagine the reaction here if douglas gave up a late 2nd rounder for him.  

[jgb]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

could you imagine the talk here if the jets were rumored to want to trade for darnold, what the compensation would have to be.  imagine the reaction here if douglas gave up a late 2nd rounder for him.  

Reminds me of my personal objectivity test I apply to every Jets move: "If the Dolphins did this same thing, would I laugh or be worried?"

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

Disagreements lead to progress.

They don't want progress. They just want the quarterback to stay the same forever. They fear change more than they hate losing and then they cry when you tell them it's their fault the team sucks.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, jgb said:

Reminds me of my personal objectivity test I apply to every Jets move: "If the Dolphins did this same thing, would I laugh or be worried?"

i can see the steelers and colts wanting darnold, willing to give up a 3rd rounder and maybe a conditional pick.  that seems fair based on how he's played.  

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

It's also easy to bang on the table for high-risk guys when you're in the draft room but not the GM. When you're the one writing the name on the card, it must feel much heavier. Some guys rise to the challenge and manage the responsibility well. Say what you will about John Dorsey but he had the courage of his convictions and never shied from the moment. He went with the guys he wanted, consensus be damned. Other guys like Macc lock up and rush into the warm bosom of "BAP" and thus draft not to lose rather than to win.

Not enough data points on JD yet to know which type he is or somewhere in the middle.

Yep, this is exactly it. Bradway may very well have banged on the table for Russell Wilson. He might have also banged on the table - and got his wish - for Coples a round earlier for all we know, and conveniently didn't see to it that was leaked. He wasn't hitting on every single pick - let alone at QB - when the decisions all belonged to him. FFS he banged the table for himself to draft a ****ing kicker in round 2. 

[Biggs]

After watching a 2nd string XFL QB carve up Tamp Bay's D I suspect there really isn't a dilemma.   He will be cut.

[kmnj]

jets cant keep sam but will keep sam....

joe used a draft pick in mims who was invisible with sam and all year the mims crowd said it is because sam sucks.....

I believe joe is going to try and get pederson to coach them too which would be an epic failure as well

 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i can see the steelers and colts wanting darnold, willing to give up a 3rd rounder and maybe a conditional pick.  that seems fair based on how he's played.  

I also voted 3rd rounder in the poll. However, I think Jets give back some later picks as part of getting that 3rd.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, kmnj said:

jets cant keep sam but will keep sam....

joe used a draft pick in mims who was invisible with sam and all year the mims crowd said it is because sam sucks.....

I believe joe is going to try and get pederson to coach them too which would be an epic failure as well

 

I am in the Mims crowd. I do not know what Mims will become. But (a) Sam does suck; and (b) Mims is a top 4 athletic freak WR in the NFL.

So I have a lot more faith in Mims being good with a better QB than Darnold being good with better weaponz.

It's a bold prediction -- many have mocked it, although if it becomes true, people will ret-con it into a "duh" prediction as they did with my Tannehill and Rosen calls -- that Mims will be a pro bowler within 2 years if Jets find a QB that throws for 3500+ yards and 20+ TDs (roughly league average).

[Jets723]

14 minutes ago, jgb said:

Well then thanks for pointing out the Geno's old defenders are not actual earthworms!

Ok....that escalated quickly.  I mean I thought we were just having a civil conversation ? 

[FTL Jet Fan]

Can someone please lock this guy up until after the draft. I can’t keep drinking at 9 am.

[Jets723]

13 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

They don't want progress. They just want the quarterback to stay the same forever. They fear change more than they hate losing and then they cry when you tell them it's their fault the team sucks.

That’s completely untrue.  I mean if you look at my posts I clearly said “If JD moves on and drafts a QB I’m totally on Board with that” 

[UntouchableCrew]

20 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Really?

Watson pulled off an AMZING season and his team produced the 3rd pick.  Try again.  

Did you watch the Jets this season?

We stunk because Sam Darnold stunk. He was the worst QB in the NFL which is why we had the 32nd offense in the NFL, which is why we went 2-14.

The idea that we still would have been that bad if he'd played well is a fantasy scenario. The Texans have nothing to do with the Jets whatsoever.

[Warfish]

20 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Sam is not coming back and they're taking a QB at 2.

Just about a certainty.

I don't think there are too many "certainties" right now in re: the Jets.

[kmnj]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

I am in the Mims crowd. I do not know what Mims will become. But (a) Sam does suck; and (b) Mims is a top 4 athletic freak WR in the NFL.

So I have a lot more faith in Mims being good with a better QB than Darnold being good with better weaponz.

It's a bold prediction -- many have mocked it, although if it becomes true, people will ret-con it into a "duh" prediction as they did with my Tannehill and Rosen calls -- that Mims will be a pro bowler within 2 years if Jets find a QB that throws for 3500+ yards and 20+ TDs (roughly league average).

hope u are correct on mims

right now his production was less than stephen hill's was his first year and there are other rookies that have smashesd this year and other rookies drafted later with trash qbs that have vastly outperformed mims too-example Mooney with the bears -61 catches 600+ yards and 4 tds and he was what a 5th rounder?

 

 

 

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Can someone please lock this guy up until after the draft. I can’t keep drinking at 9 am.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, kmnj said:

hope u are correct on mims

right now his production was less than stephen hill's was his first year and there are other rookies that have smashesd this year and other rookies drafted later with trash qbs that have vastly outperformed mims too-example Mooney with the bears -61 catches 600+ yards and 4 tds and he was what a 5th rounder?

 

 

 

You are right to bring up Stephen Hill. He is a cautionary tale that athletic freaks don't always turn into NFL WRs. Mims might fail. That's why it's a bold prediction

 

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

It's also easy to bang on the table for high-risk guys when you're in the draft room but not the GM. When you're the one writing the name on the card, it must feel much heavier. Some guys rise to the challenge and manage the responsibility well. Say what you will about John Dorsey but he had the courage of his convictions and never shied from the moment. He went with the guys he wanted, consensus be damned. Other guys like Macc lock up and rush into the warm bosom of "BAP" and thus draft not to lose rather than to win.

Not enough data points on JD yet to know which type he is or somewhere in the middle.

Sam isn't coming back as undisputed starter. First, I believe he's not coming back. If I'm wrong and he does, JD has to bring in some legitimate competition. If he does not, he sucks and I will be on the Fire JD Train.

Self-interest is a wonderful thing though and I believe it will prevent JD from putting all his eggs in the broken Sam basket even if he harbors some belief that Sam is the white whale that will experience a top-3 QB turnaround in NFL history.

 

Exactly.  For all the bluster about JD liking Darnold and them sharing the same agent that's been talked about a lot on JN, it's probably all just noise to try to drive up Darnold's trade value and send up a smokescreen on what the Jets do at # 2.  Douglas isn't putting his career on the line for Sam f**king Darnold.  This is a business, and a cold one at that. 

Douglas is here in large part because of Adam Gase, and you had people arguing that that relationship would keep Gase here another year.  We see how that worked out.  I imagine Darnold is headed for a similar fate.  A handshake and a classy, mutually beneficial parting of ways.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

I am in the Mims crowd. I do not know what Mims will become. But (a) Sam does suck; and (b) Mims is a top 4 athletic freak WR in the NFL.

So I have a lot more faith in Mims being good with a better QB than Darnold being good with better weaponz.

It's a bold prediction -- many have mocked it, although if it becomes true, people will ret-con it into a "duh" prediction as they did with my Tannehill and Rosen calls -- that Mims will be a pro bowler within 2 years if Jets find a QB that throws for 3500+ yards and 20+ TDs (roughly league average).

I don't see that as a bold prediction at all.  Mims has already looked like a top-8 WR in the 2020 class despite being the 13th receiver off the board.  And that's in a season with sh*tty QB play and injuries that prevented him from getting any real offseason in.  Imagine what he'll do when he's able to build chemistry with a non-sh*tty QB.  

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I don't see that as a bold prediction at all.  Mims has already looked like a top-8 WR in the 2020 class despite being the 13th receiver off the board.  And that's in a season with sh*tty QB play and injuries that prevented him from getting any real offseason in.  Imagine what he'll do when he's able to build chemistry with a non-sh*tty QB.  

See, they're already starting to believe and downplay the boldness of my prediction!  

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

See, they're already starting to believe and downplay the boldness of my prediction!  

Next you'll be predicting the Jaguars take Lawrence # 1.  Such boldness!

[Warfish]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Douglas is here in large part because of Adam Gase

People keep saying this, and yet there is no verifiable evidence of that actually being true. 

 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Next you'll be predicting the Jaguars take Lawrence # 1.  Such boldness!

You want bold? Mitch Trubisky will be a good NFL QB and held out, along with Ryan Tannehill, as an example why Justin Fields can still turn it around after a poor start as QB of the NYJ 

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, Warfish said:

People keep saying this, and yet there is no verifiable evidence of that actually being true. 

They worked together in Chicago in 2015.  Gase knifed Macc after the draft.  Douglas was then hired.  Also, this:

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/80193/newlyweds-jets-adam-gase-says-gm-joe-douglas-likes-my-insanity

Quote

They know each other. They respect each other. They wanted to work together.

Quote

 

Gase met Douglas when they worked for the Chicago Bears in 2015, when Gase was the offensive coordinator and Douglas was a top scout. Chicago was only a one-year stopover for both men -- they went on to bigger jobs -- but they hit it off in a short period of time. Douglas took a chance by leaving a cushy scouting job with the Baltimore Ravens, and he didn't know many people in Chicago.

"I'll never forget, Adam is the guy that reached out to me almost immediately," Douglas said. "We struck up a friendship and he invited us over to his house. We were able to have dinner, we were able to talk ball. It was just apparent from the beginning that we shared a lot of the same visions about teamwork and team building."

 

 

[kmnj]

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I don't see that as a bold prediction at all.  Mims has already looked like a top-8 WR in the 2020 class despite being the 13th receiver off the board.  And that's in a season with sh*tty QB play and injuries that prevented him from getting any real offseason in.  Imagine what he'll do when he's able to build chemistry with a non-sh*tty QB.  

top 8?

Mims had Zero TDS for starters-I am pretty sure he is the only wr that did not have one single TD and some had bad qbs too

he only had 350 yards as well

you can make every excuse in the book you want for him but his numbers were terrible -he basically ranks where he was drafted 13 wr for  the class and that is putting him over Van Jefferson. I have hope for the future but people acting like he was the steal of the draft or had a great year are beyond crazy. Next year lets hope he takes off and has a great year but until then he is what his numbers say he is. A guy that could not stay on the field and could not catch a touchdown

top 8 u say?

jefferson-

Lamb-

Aiyuk

higgins

pittman

lavisky

claypool

Jeudy

Davis-4th round pick

Mooney-5th round pick

KJ Hamler-similar but had more tds -mims had a big 0

Ruggs -performed slightly better but had some tds-he has been a bad pick based on results where drafted

Raegor-pretty much some as mims but had some tds-he has been a bad pick based on results for where drafted

Van Jefferson-he is about where mims is  but even he had a td

 

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

They worked together in Chicago in 2015.  Gase knifed Macc after the draft.  Douglas was then hired.  Also, this:

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/80193/newlyweds-jets-adam-gase-says-gm-joe-douglas-likes-my-insanity

 

But if you weren't in the room how can you actually know????

I swear you could fill a book of logical fallacies from the counter-arguments used on this board lol

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

But if you weren't in the room how can you actually know????

I swear you could fill a book of logical fallacies from the counter-arguments used on this board lol

@Hackenberg - Banned

[prime21]

38 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Exactly.  For all the bluster about JD liking Darnold and them sharing the same agent that's been talked about a lot on JN, it's probably all just noise to try to drive up Darnold's trade value and send up a smokescreen on what the Jets do at # 2.  Douglas isn't putting his career on the line for Sam f**king Darnold.  This is a business, and a cold one at that. 

Douglas is here in large part because of Adam Gase, and you had people arguing that that relationship would keep Gase here another year.  We see how that worked out.  I imagine Darnold is headed for a similar fate.  A handshake and a classy, mutually beneficial parting of ways.  

YUP.     In sports its either you or me. 

"Sorry Sam, but for real, lets stay in touch and when the pandemic is over I still owe you that dinner"

They will never speak again

 

 

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

@Hackenberg - Banned

You couldn't have been in the room because the room doesn't actually exist.

 

[Warfish]

23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

They worked together in Chicago in 2015.  Gase knifed Macc after the draft.  Douglas was then hired.  Also, this:

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/80193/newlyweds-jets-adam-gase-says-gm-joe-douglas-likes-my-insanity

 

None of that is evidence.   

That's the same thing the parties would say even if Gase had nothing to do with the firing/hiring, and the Johnsons made it on their own.

Gase.  Deserves.  Nothing.  Not credit, not praise, nothing.