Justin Fields Questions - Take the pole you morans!

[prime21]

2 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

Last night proved one thing and that is, nobody is giving up a boat load of picks to move up for Fields. So the JETS now have a new dilemma. Do they or don't they trade out of #2. Here's the issue and that's Miami at #3. Do we let them have Sewell or Smith or get the draft haul we could have gotten from Cincy. We can still get that draft haul from Cincy, however then we don't get either player. There will be those who say I'm crazy, but just to let you know.... I already know that lol...

Although I would love to block Miami from taking a player we want, the focus needs to be on bettering our team instead of worrying about what they might do.  The Cincy spot would be a great trade for us but Cincy has a lot holes to fill to.  I don't think they wan to give up so much draft capital for a non QB.    

[56mehl56]

9 hours ago, football guy said:

It was always going to be a tough game for him. Alabama's defense is great. The issue with Fields is his weaknesses are present regardless whether the stats are there or not. Dane Brugler put it best tonight: 

This, coupled with the Ohio State offense (lack of teaching how to read defenses), his limited ability as a progression passer, struggles against pressure, and the fact that he plays in a see-it throw-it offense, all should leave people feeling skeptical. That's not a criticize though; people were skeptical about Mahomes, people were skeptical about Lamar, people were skeptical about Allen... 

He absolutely has talent and is a fine developmental QB. I think Atlanta is his ceiling and would likely be the best situation for him; gets to play in his home state and sit behind Matt Ryan for a year or 2 before he's asked to take the reigns. I really do think there's a strong possibility they go that route purely because of ownership. Otherwise, maybe Carolina? I think Carolina likes Lance. I'm not sure how Fields would fit in SF. I could see him being an excellent fit in CHI... they have a scheme that fits his skill sets very nicely. 

Not the great Dane Brugler. Now that he's spoken we can just end the thread. 

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Clemson sold out to try to stop Sermon last week who had 193 yards rushing.  Fields had open first reads in single coverage the entire night

 

last night Sermon had like 2 yards rushing.  Fields sucked.  
 

Did you even watch the game, Sermon had 1 carry and got hurt and never returned. 

[Philc1]

22 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Did you even watch the game, Sermon had 1 carry and got hurt and never returned. 

And without Sermon going nuts how did Fields do?

[jetstream23]

43 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Did you even watch the game, Sermon had 1 carry and got hurt and never returned. 

I think that's what he's saying.  With little run threat Fields obviously suffered.  But that happens with any QB.

Big lead for Alabama, no running game for OSU = Very, very difficult spot for a QB against an excellent defense.

Last night was hard to use as an evaluation game for Fields IMO.  He was also dealing with some injuries.  Almost a no-win situation.

[jetstream23]

21 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

And without Sermon going nuts how did Fields do?

60% of the reason Baker Mayfield has been successful this year.  Without Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt, and a very good OLine we wouldn't see good QB performance.  

[Sonny Werblin]

9 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

60% of the reason Baker Mayfield has been successful this year.  Without Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt, and a very good OLine we wouldn't see good QB performance.  

How did you come up with 60%? How does the other 40% break down?

[playtowinthegame]

7 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

60% of the reason Baker Mayfield has been successful this year.  Without Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt, and a very good OLine we wouldn't see good QB performance.  

Isn't Philc1 the one who's quoted in a signature by a poster here saying Christian Hackenberg is a good quarterback? I could of sworn I read that before. Lol 

[Biggs]

3 hours ago, maury77 said:

Ok, for starters, I'm not a professional football scout and I don't have a huge internet following for my draft takes. I've learned what I can by following the draft religiously since the Blair Thomas draft (FML). Even the pros, at best, bat 50% in the draft. 

That disclaimer aside, the question the Jets are facing is the llikelihood of Darnold improving with  a few months to decide whether to exercise his 5th year option vs. Justin Fields vs. Zach Wilson. 

Regarding Darnold, I think QBs, at the NFL level, fall into 3 categories: a. guys you win because of; b. guys you can win with; c. guys you can't win with. Up until now, Darnold has been in category c. It pains me to admit that. I followed him since his freshman season at USC, I saw the Rose Bowl and I bought into the hype of Daniel Jeremiah calling Darnold the best QB prospect since Luck. But it hasn't happened. I think we all can admit there are other huge factors that affected his play (Gase, surrounding talent), but even in bad circumstances, the cream will rise to the top. Look at Deshaun Watson this year. The Texans were awful (they would be picking 3rd if not for the Tunsil trade) and Watson still played lights out, excuses be damned. Darnold is never going to reach that level. Could he be a Tannehill type QB? Maybe (and even that is a stretch if we are being honest with ourselves). But what happens to the Tannehill types when everything around them isn't clicking? You saw this past weekend. Baltimore took Derrick Henry out and Tannehill (without being able to use the play. action) was pretty mediocre. I think that is Darnold's ceiling. 

Regarding Wilson, he reminds me of Darnold and,  for your older guys, Pete Marevich (different sport, I know). If football had the equivalent of the basketball game HORSE, I think Wilson would beat out Lawrence and Fields. Wilson makes jaw dropping throws, he absolutely does. But a lesson I've learned with Darnold is to look past that and look at the whole picture. 2 of the oldest rules when it comes to looking at players is the level of competition they played and their injury history. Look at the top 10 QBs in the NFL today. Most of them played in Power 5 schools. The 1 exception is Josh Allen, who is the size of a linebacker, runs like a tight end and might have the strongest arm in the league today. I cant help but be wary when I look at BYU's schedule. The one time I saw Wilson play a power 5 school (Washington in 2019), I saw a skittish QB who missed a lot when he was under pressure. I see that often with Wilson where he abandons the pocket early or he starts running backwards with pressure coming up the middle. I don't think Wilson has the balls to consistently hang in the pocket, take a hit and deliver a strike. I honestly think he is afraid of getting hit and I think this was something I missed on with Darnold as well. The other issue I have with Wilson is the injury history. Its not so much that I'm afraid of one of his past injuries coming back, but the guy looks like he has a small frame and he has been dinged up a lot. Look at Dee Millner and look at Jabari Zuniga. Guys that come into the NFL being injury prone tend to stay that way. 

On to Fields. Fields is not a perfect prospect. He appears to go through his reads slow at times, but, as @Paradis alluded to in another thread, that can be hard to tell at times at the college level. Fields had a rough game against Indiana (who was good this year). I'm willing to give him a pass on the Northwestern game because a lot of guys were out with Covid and, even though the backups may also be studs, it takes some time to get your timing down with new receivers. Fields was not good against Alabama, but the guy showed a lot of guts going out there with a hip pointer and an injured thumb (if you don't think it was affecting him, Ohio State called 1 RPO the whole game by the time I shut the TV off midway through the 4th). For those of you that will argue that Fields was injured against Clemson as well, think back to the time when you played sports (if that time ever existed). I played football, basketball and baseball during high school. As an adult, I used to practice Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Thai Boxing and now I practice Krav Maga. I can't tell you the number of times I've hurt myself, but I was able to keep going because of adrenaline and being in the moment only to feel like crap a few days later. Look at Darnold this year. He hurt his shoulder this year against Denver (I believe) and he came back in the game, only to miss several of the next games because of the shoulder. Once the body cools down, injuries can start to feel a lot worse. 

I love how tough Fields is. The way he came back into the Clemson game after the shot he took resonated with me and I can assure you it probably resonated with his teammates and made them play harder. I also look at how successful guys like Lamar and Josh Allen have been in the NFL. Lamar is faster than Fields while Allen has a bigger arm. However, I looked at Lamar and Allen a lot in 2018 leading up to the draft and I think Fields is much further along as a passer while also offering the same threat as a runner. 

If it were up to me, I'd roll with Fields next year (sorry for the long post). 

I would roll with Maravich.  Maravich was one of the players who was worth the price of admission win or lose.  Maravich reminds me a lot more of Mahomes and Watson than of Sam Darnold.  The guy was one of the most creative players I've ever seen.  

[Jethead]

JD doesn't strike me as the type who gambles or goes, "screw it, I'm all in".

To me that's a good thing. I expect him to keep Sam and keep building, Sewell or Smith look like great options to me, especially if he can pull off a trade back one or two spots and still get a guy like Smith.

 If he decides to take Fields, if think he will still keep Sam for another year. 

Whoever he picks as coach will certainly influence his decision but at the end of the day it will be his call.

 

[Krappedetector]

11 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

You obviously don't know me.  It was 100% on purpose.

Did you take the pole?

You're right, I don't know you.. and thanks for the laugh!

PS I visit many sports message boards and see posts like yours.. that are FOR REAL!

[68JET11]

3 hours ago, prime21 said:

Although I would love to block Miami from taking a player we want, the focus needs to be on bettering our team instead of worrying about what they might do.  The Cincy spot would be a great trade for us but Cincy has a lot holes to fill to.  I don't think they wan to give up so much draft capital for a non QB.    

Yea, I agree, not trying to worry about what other teams do, I was just pointing out we have a dilemma on our hands... I get that Cincy might not be willing to trade, but I do believe someone will, it just depends how far down we go, or who we actually want.

[CTM]

6 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Amazing how the injuries didn’t affect him last week but today Fields is whining publicly about it

 

hes mentally and physically brittle.  Putting him in NY is almost cruel

I haven't seen this but that isn't a good sign

[Paradis]

Poll season. It’s here. 

[Joe Jets fan]

No

[Paradis]

Summary of thoughts:

1. Fields is indeed, the #2 QB in this class. That's said with firm resolve. 
2. The football universe isn't acknowledging how injured Fields was last night. Couldn't step into his throws, use his torso, or even run for that matter. He had 1 big scramble. Its Ridiculous that people like Dane Brugler are glossing over that. 
3. I personally probably wouldn't take Fields if I was GM. Or any QB this year outside of maybe a steal later on... That's just because I prefer a different plant. The Jets have a unique chance to trade back and wind up with FIVE 1st round picks 2021/2022 in addition to SEVEN TO NINE round 2-4 picks.. Like my god. You can't begin to understand how much you can accelerate a roster's development with those numbers.
4. I would be comfortable with Fields at #2 if the staff wanted it, and they had a plan
5. People who work in the NFL are still higher on Darnold than Jets Fans. If you're somehow still wondering why there's a chance he'll be back - it's because you're not a coach, or Management. Darnold is still viewed as million dollar clay, though with much more of work to be done. 

[bitonti]

Speaking of polls there was one on the natty thread how many TDs will fields throw 

Something like 60 percent of the board voted 3-4 and another 20 percent thought more than 5 td 

[Scott Dierking]

4 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

Isn't Philc1 the one who's quoted in a signature by a poster here saying Christian Hackenberg is a good quarterback? I could of sworn I read that before. Lol 

Yes, check my signature and the thread it is attached to. Basically a troll.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Speaking of polls there was one on the natty thread how many TDs will fields throw 

Something like 60 percent of the board voted 3-4 and another 20 percent thought more than 5 td 

Regression toward the mean is not a familiar concept to most. The better you do in one game, the lower the likelihood of repeating/bettering it next time.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

60% of the reason Baker Mayfield has been successful this year.  Without Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt, and a very good OLine we wouldn't see good QB performance.  

Just assume a can opener

[Anthony Jet]

I all for whatever course of action JD thinks to build the strongest TEAM. If it means keeping Darnold, I’m with it if the resources are used to solidify the team, but if they do keep Darnold, they must bring in someone to compete for the starting job. I m not really a fan of Darnold but if management doesn’t feel that fields is worth taking and they actually build a solid team using the assets they have, I can’t complain even if fields goes on to be a good pro

[jetstream23]

4 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

How did you come up with 60%? How does the other 40% break down?

 

 

An extremely deep and complex analysis I performed.

[Paradis]

Mostly unrelated, but check out this 2017 recruiting class for Alabama.

I liken it to the potential Jets draft haul over the next two years if they trade down. You can win with a guy like Mac Jones if you have the oline and playmakers this team had for example

(if you CLICK on it, it's more clear)

[Jets Voice of Reason]

9 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Summary of thoughts:

1. Fields is indeed, the #2 QB in this class. That's said with firm resolve. 
2. The football universe isn't acknowledging how injured Fields was last night. Couldn't step into his throws, use his torso, or even run for that matter. He had 1 big scramble. Its Ridiculous that people like Dane Brugler are glossing over that. 
3. I personally probably wouldn't take Fields if I was GM. Or any QB this year outside of maybe a steal later on... That's just because I prefer a different plant. The Jets have a unique chance to trade back and wind up with FIVE 1st round picks 2021/2022 in addition to SEVEN TO NINE round 2-4 picks.. Like my god. You can't begin to understand how much you can accelerate a roster's development with those numbers.
4. I would be comfortable with Fields at #2 if the staff wanted it, and they had a plan
5. People who work in the NFL are still higher on Darnold than Jets Fans. If you're somehow still wondering why there's a chance he'll be back - it's because you're not a coach, or Management. Darnold is still viewed as million dollar clay, though with much more of work to be done. 

I think anyone who is connected, yourself included, has echoed the same sentiment about Darnold, so I tend to believe that trading down is the top option on the board at the moment. I also agree about the Fields injury, he was a different guy.

I'm just surprised that you are in favor of trading down personally. Do you personally feel like if you surround Darnold with elite talent that he can succeed? What if that fails, are we just going to hope we get lucky down the road?

[Paradis]

39 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I think anyone who is connected, yourself included, has echoed the same sentiment about Darnold, so I tend to believe that trading down is the top option on the board at the moment. I also agree about the Fields injury, he was a different guy.

I'm just surprised that you are in favor of trading down personally. Do you personally feel like if you surround Darnold with elite talent that he can succeed? What if that fails, are we just going to hope we get lucky down the road?

Basically yes. Not saying it’s a better plan, but I’m greedy and willing to roll the dice on adding another 1^st to 2022 haul in addition to the rounds 2/3 picks we’ll pick up as well. Fields is definitely a worthy selection to place you faith in – but he’s not so enticing that you can’t look at alternatives. Sam either is remolded by a guy like Kafka or we’d let him go next with even less remorse. We still NEED to draft OTs,WRs, TEs, RBs, CBs etc… whomever takes over 2022 is going to be set up for success even more so than Fields would be. There’ll always be options.

[BettyBoop]

16 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Where do you stand on Justin Fields?

What’s a moran?  

[jetstream23]

2 minutes ago, BettyBoop said:

What’s a moran?  

It's kinda like an imbusill or an idiut.

 

[BettyBoop]

7 hours ago, prime21 said:

Although I would love to block Miami from taking a player we want, the focus needs to be on bettering our team instead of worrying about what they might do.  The Cincy spot would be a great trade for us but Cincy has a lot holes to fill to.  I don't think they wan to give up so much draft capital for a non QB.    

This is just not a year for a draft haul at #2.  Unless things change in the next four months (which they could) the best to hope for is trading down to #4-8 and get an early second rounder and a late rounder.  That could be they way Douglas goes if he wants to build this team before he takes a QB with a high pick.

Trade with Carolina for #8, #39 and a 2022 third rounder sounds about right.  Anyone thinking we’re getting three firsts, two seconds and two thirds or a haul like that is delusional.

[BettyBoop]

11 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

It's kinda like an imbusill or an idiut.

 

Oh, that.

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Basically yes. Not saying it’s a better plan, but I’m greedy and willing to roll the dice on adding another 1^st to 2022 haul in addition to the rounds 2/3 picks we’ll pick up as well. Fields is definitely a worthy selection to place you faith in – but he’s not so enticing that you can’t look at alternatives. Sam either is remolded by a guy like Kafka or we’d let him go next with even less remorse. We still NEED to draft OTs,WRs, TEs, RBs, CBs etc… whomever takes over 2022 is going to be set up for success even more so than Fields would be. There’ll always be options.

Playing around on the PFN Mock Draft Simulator with multiple trade downs....  OT, C, RB, TE, WR (x2) on offense with several dynamite defensive prospects at the two premiere spots, Edge and CB. (Only did 4 rounds)

[BettyBoop]

2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Playing around on the PFN Mock Draft Simulator with multiple trade downs....  OT, C, RB, TE, WR (x2) on offense with several dynamite defensive prospects at the two premiere spots, Edge and CB.

That is a great and reasonable approach.  Personally I hope Douglas drafts two CB.

 

[Mark78]

8 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

Not the great Dane Brugler. Now that he's spoken we can just end the thread. 

 

[Mark78]

3 hours ago, Paradis said:

Summary of thoughts:

1. Fields is indeed, the #2 QB in this class. That's said with firm resolve. 
2. The football universe isn't acknowledging how injured Fields was last night. Couldn't step into his throws, use his torso, or even run for that matter. He had 1 big scramble. Its Ridiculous that people like Dane Brugler are glossing over that. 
3. I personally probably wouldn't take Fields if I was GM. Or any QB this year outside of maybe a steal later on... That's just because I prefer a different plant. The Jets have a unique chance to trade back and wind up with FIVE 1st round picks 2021/2022 in addition to SEVEN TO NINE round 2-4 picks.. Like my god. You can't begin to understand how much you can accelerate a roster's development with those numbers.
4. I would be comfortable with Fields at #2 if the staff wanted it, and they had a plan
5. People who work in the NFL are still higher on Darnold than Jets Fans. If you're somehow still wondering why there's a chance he'll be back - it's because you're not a coach, or Management. Darnold is still viewed as million dollar clay, though with much more of work to be done. 

The problem is the 5th year option.  What if Sam is back and shows SOME improvement.  Are you gambling by paying him all that money for animprovement over the horrible last season?

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Playing around on the PFN Mock Draft Simulator with multiple trade downs....  OT, C, RB, TE, WR (x2) on offense with several dynamite defensive prospects at the two premiere spots, Edge and CB. (Only did 4 rounds)

I like your style - but there's problems with this. The whole "multiple trades back" thing is... asking a lot from the suspension of disbelief department... but more importantly we can't roster 25+ rookies over a calendar year including next draft.. Yes our roster is in rough shape but that might be pushing it.

Trade back once, acquire next year's 1 & 2 and this year's 2nd, maybe there's some additional "we'll give you a 4th for your 3rd" talk... 

Then you pick your 5-6 guys in the top 100 and move around to go get them. Especially in those 2-3 rounds, Use your capital. 

[Paradis]

6 minutes ago, Mark78 said:

The problem is the 5th year option.  What if Sam is back and shows SOME improvement.  Are you gambling by paying him all that money for animprovement over the horrible last season?

If there's confidence over the summer that this is a new Sam in a new system, you pick up the option. Unless he gets injured bad (a risk, but so everything) then you can still cut bait after 2021 if its not enough. I think Sam would have to have a Tannehill sized come back player of the year type performance to warrant any further considerations... but... he does have the profile/pedigree of someone who could be that guy