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We need Macc's help


jgb

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3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

In fairness 80 percent of this forum and the world were high on rosen and Darnold. Just goes to show you nothing is a lock

Yes but do you remember the article about how Mac had latched onto darnold early on and personally scouted him? It was almost like Mac was trying to do a pr job on himself to distract from the success Watson and mahommes were having.

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5 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

TBH, the Macc pick is really Penei Sewell.  

The Jets had Leo Williams, drafted Quinnen Williams because BPA.

The Jets have Mekhi Becton, draft Penei Sewell because BPA.

That would be the Macc playbook.

And, there's 0% chance he'd give up on his golden boy QB drafted in 2018.  In fact, Darnold would be getting extended right now if Macc was still here.

Dead on.

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3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

In fairness 80 percent of this forum and the world were high on rosen and Darnold. Just goes to show you nothing is a lock

I loved Darnold, but wanted nothing to do with Rosen.  Hey, I was 50%.

I wanted Josh Allen if Cleveland took Darnold.  Josh was my #2.  

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7 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

TBH, the Macc pick is really Penei Sewell.  

The Jets had Leo Williams, drafted Quinnen Williams because BPA.

The Jets have Mekhi Becton, draft Penei Sewell because BPA.

That would be the Macc playbook.

And, there's 0% chance he'd give up on his golden boy QB drafted in 2018.  In fact, Darnold would be getting extended right now if Macc was still here.

Reading this post made me so thankful Gase helped Christopher ? see the light and fire Mac. Mac was the type to dig in and keep a mistake in the building because of his pride. 

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1 minute ago, playtowinthegame said:

Reading this post made me so thankful Gase helped Christopher ? see the light and fire Mac. Mac was the type to dig in and keep a mistake in the building because of his pride. 

Let's see what JD does with Darnold before we break out the party streamers.

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9 minutes ago, jgb said:

Let's see what JD does with Darnold before we break out the party streamers.

I'm speaking of Mac passing on Watson and Mahomes in the 1st rd of the 2017 NFL Draft because he drafted Christian Hackenberg in the 2nd rd of the 2016 NFL Draft. I cannot for the life of me envision Joe Douglas passing on an opportunity to reset with one of the top quarterbacks from this draft on a rookie contract. Just my opinion here, but I believe the odds are in favor of Joe Douglas wanting to turn the page on Sam Darnold, which could be good for both parties tbh. Darnold is an asset that is depreciating and he'll likely be liquidated for more draft capital.

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27 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Allen has wide receivers

dont overlook that 

True, but that moves the needle only incrementally.  I've come around on this after three years of watching Darnold.  Coaching and roster are really important, but can only explain so much.  If Darnold had better WRs (actually more consistent and less injured WRs because I think Crowder, Perriman and Mims are decent) I think he might have moved from the 32nd ranked QB to say 25th?  Upgrade the RB and get some better coaching and maybe what, 20th?  We'd still likely need a QB.  Sam missed quite a few open guys, made some poor decisions (ex. throwing INTs in the redzone in Week 17, running out of bounds behind the LOS rather than throwing the ball away, etc.).  That's not corrected by better WRs or even better coaching because I'm 100% positive Gase isn't telling him to throw into double coverage or to not look at his second read.

 

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1 minute ago, playtowinthegame said:

I'm speaking of Mac passing on Watson and Mahomes in the 1st rd of the 2017 NFL Draft because he drafted Christian Hackenberg in the 2nd rd of the 2016 NFL Draft. I cannot for the life of me envision Joe Douglas passing on an opportunity to reset with one of the top quarterbacks from this draft on a rookie contract. Just my opinion here, but I believe the odds are in favor of Joe Douglas wanting to turn the page on Sam Darnold, which could be good for both parties tbh. Darnold is an asset that is depreciating and he'll likely be liquidated for more draft capital.

I believe the same with a big caveat: if JD simply does not believe in one of the QBs in this draft aside from Trevor, he will have to get creative. This may mean (ugh) hanging onto Sam and getting the best available QB in trade/FA and let them duke it out. Someone such as (unlikely) Stafford, Watson to (more likely) Tyrod Taylor, Trubisky, Minshew. In any scenario I cannot see him going into 2021 TC without credible competition for Darnold. Again, I believe it's far more likely we draft a QB and trade Darnold.

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2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

True, but that moves the needle incrementally.  I've come around on this three years of watching Darnold.  Coaching and roster are really important, but can only explain so much.  If Darnold had better WRs (actually more consistent and less injured WRs because I think Crowder, Perriman and Mims are decent) I think he might have moved from the 32nd ranked QB to say 25th?  Upgrade the RB and get some better coaching and maybe what, 20th?  We'd still likely need a QB.  Sam missed quite a few open guys, made some poor decisions (ex. throwing INTs in the redzone in Week 17, running out of bounds behind the LOS rather than throwing the ball away, etc.).  That's not corrected by better WRs or even better coaching because I'm 100% positive Gase isn't telling him to throw into double coverage or to not look at his second read.

 

FQBs -- even on bad teams -- show up as the best guy on the field at least a couple times a year. Sam never did that this year. If we are really generous he only has done it twice in his career -- his 1st career game against DET (despite starting with a pick-6, oh the sign of things to come) and OAK last year. That's simply not enough. If his supporting cast is so bad, it should be easy for him to stand out as the best dude on the field more than that. As you point out, opportunities to make plays were there. He just didn't make them.

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Haha. Good idea.

Remembering the past is why I’m just going to sit back and watch. I’ll have an opinion but I’m not going to get all emotional about it. My QB ranking was Baker > Rosen > Darnold. Oops.

WR is a different story. It’s the only position group I seemed to get right consistently. It’s an easier position to understand why a player has success. OL, QB I don’t know sh*t. I thought Nathan Peterman was going to be a steal. 

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54 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

TBH, the Macc pick is really Penei Sewell.  

The Jets had Leo Williams, drafted Quinnen Williams because BPA.

The Jets have Mekhi Becton, draft Penei Sewell because BPA.

That would be the Macc playbook.

And, there's 0% chance he'd give up on his golden boy QB drafted in 2018.  In fact, Darnold would be getting extended right now if Macc was still here.

MacLoser would NEVER pick Sewell ever. He is on record that he does not believe in using high picks on OL. After last nigh if Macschitforbrains was still GM he would take Barmore

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4 hours ago, jgb said:

In 2018, Macc was focused most heavily on 2 QBs: Darnold (his #1) and Rosen (his #2). The reports are that he would "settle" for Mayfield if the other two were gone.

So of the 5 first round QBs -- Macc had the only two not in the playoffs as his 1 and 2. With one barely hanging around in the league and the other, well, you know.

We need to bring him in on a one-day consultancy and ask him what he feels about Fields and Wilson.

And then do the exact opposite. And if he likes both, trade down.

Good luck finding him.

Be on the look out for a guy carrying a Red Stapler.

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58 minutes ago, Alka said:

I loved Darnold, but wanted nothing to do with Rosen.  Hey, I was 50%.

I wanted Josh Allen if Cleveland took Darnold.  Josh was my #2.  

Allen would be completing about 45% of his passes and be almost out of the league if he were drafted by Maccagnan and surrounded by the same “talent” and “coaches”....instead of what now looks like a potential Hall of Fame trajectory (I think he just keeps getting better with the great coaching and strong personnel around him).

They have really done an outstanding job in coaching up his game.  He had the biggest upside potential when drafted but also the biggest bust risk.  Guy was barely completing 50% of his passes at Wyoming.  He has gotten incredibly more accurate, at the pro level, to go with incredible arm talent.  You NEVER see that.

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34 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Even though I would not like it a LB looks in play at 23 if Saleh is the HC, watch out for the Tulsa guy, and yes he's not tiny 6'4 260.

If we pick a LB in the 1st three rounds I'll be enraged.

If we go back to favouring defense because we hired a defensive coach I'll be enraged.

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I wanted Baker since it seemed like a lock that Darnold would go #1. Rosen was Plan B

Hack had scared me off taking project QBs like Allen and Lamar wasn't even talked about as an option. 

Feels like forever ago but its only been three years

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4 minutes ago, Icer said:

I wanted Baker since it seemed like a lock that Darnold would go #1. Rosen was Plan B

Hack had scared me off taking project QBs like Allen and Lamar wasn't even talked about as an option. 

Feels like forever ago but its only been three years

I had it Baker-Darnold-Allen-Jackson-every other QB in draft-Rosen (undraftable). 

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10 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Allen would be completing about 45% of his passes and be almost out of the league if he were drafted by Maccagnan and surrounded by the same “talent” and “coaches”....instead of what now looks like a potential Hall of Fame trajectory (I think he just keeps getting better with the great coaching and strong personnel around him).

They have really done an outstanding job in coaching up his game.  He had the biggest upside potential when drafted but also the biggest bust risk.  Guy was barely completing 50% of his passes at Wyoming.  He has gotten incredibly more accurate, at the pro level, to go with incredible arm talent.  You NEVER see that.

Because the improvements Josh Allen has made are more about the hard work he puts in not the players around him or the coaching, sure that’s plays a part but look at Pittsburgh they have a similar offense as buffalo, heavy passing, not much of a run game. I would argue that Pittsburgh has the better receivers overall, even those Diggs is better than anything Pittsburgh has. 
 

the difference is the play of the QB, Josh Allen is a more accurate passer than Ben Rothesberger. 

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1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

TBH, the Macc pick is really Penei Sewell.  

The Jets had Leo Williams, drafted Quinnen Williams because BPA.

The Jets have Mekhi Becton, draft Penei Sewell because BPA.

That would be the Macc playbook.

And, there's 0% chance he'd give up on his golden boy QB drafted in 2018.  In fact, Darnold would be getting extended right now if Macc was still here.

Macc showed not indication that he would ever "waste" a first round pick on OL.

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5 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Macc showed not indication that he would ever "waste" a first round pick on OL.

 

39 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

MacLoser would NEVER pick Sewell ever. He is on record that he does not believe in using high picks on OL. After last nigh if Macschitforbrains was still GM he would take Barmore

It would be the ultimate "unstoppable force meets unmovable object" scenario. Macc is on the clock high in the first and the unanimous BAP prospect is sitting there: an O lineman... I think Macc's love of BAP exceeds his hatred of OL. But it's a philosophical discussion with no right or wrong answer lol 

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1 hour ago, Alka said:

I loved Darnold, but wanted nothing to do with Rosen.  Hey, I was 50%.

I wanted Josh Allen if Cleveland took Darnold.  Josh was my #2.  

This is the way I viewed things back then.  Yes on Darnold and Allen and no on Rosen, Mayfield, and Jackson. TBH honest don't even think I was wrong about Mayfield I always thought he could be a game manager type QB not worthy of a top 10 pick and he would have been a complete disaster here.

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1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

True, but that moves the needle only incrementally.  I've come around on this after three years of watching Darnold.  Coaching and roster are really important, but can only explain so much.  If Darnold had better WRs (actually more consistent and less injured WRs because I think Crowder, Perriman and Mims are decent) I think he might have moved from the 32nd ranked QB to say 25th?  Upgrade the RB and get some better coaching and maybe what, 20th?  We'd still likely need a QB.  Sam missed quite a few open guys, made some poor decisions (ex. throwing INTs in the redzone in Week 17, running out of bounds behind the LOS rather than throwing the ball away, etc.).  That's not corrected by better WRs or even better coaching because I'm 100% positive Gase isn't telling him to throw into double coverage or to not look at his second read.

 

Momentum and confidence have to play a part too, give any player, but especially a QB, a running game that gets 5-7 yards on first down rather than 1 at most and a system that utilises high percentage passes to gain 4- 8 yards per play or WR’s that can stay on the field and build chemistry and suddenly you gain confidence and confidence is a huge factor in form ....might explain guys like Tannehill but whether or not that’s a factor with Darnold is probably less relevant than the issues he has throwing into triple coverage, going through his reads and missing wide open guys downfield. 

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I have a great idea to solve the Fields debate? We'll ask Mac what he thinks? Everyone knows any player he likes we should run away in the opposite direction. 

When he tells us that Justin Fields is a truly excellent player, we'll know then that the Jets should draft anyone but him .....

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