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Head coaches with no previous experience


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2 hours ago, AFJF said:

Correct.  How many of them turned bad teams around in their first gig and won a ring?  Oh, and within their first 15 years.

About the same percentage of first round QBs that won rings. When the rewards are great, so must be the risk.

I think FQBs and HCs are kind of similar. Good ones are rare and the sample size is pretty limited. Hard to make any statistically-significant conclusions as to where is the best place to find a successful one. I know the NFL is a copy-cat league and teams will chase the next hot thing -- remember when the league went nuts hiring anyone who once shook McVay's hand? But despite the trend-chasing, the league has cracked neither the good HC or FQB code.

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9 minutes ago, jgb said:

About the same percentage of first round QBs that became FQBs. When the rewards are great, so must be the risk.

I think FQBs and HCs are kind of similar. Good ones are rare and the sample size is pretty limited. Pretty hard to make any statistically-significant conclusions as to where is the best place to find a successful one. I know the NFL is a copy-cat league and teams will chase the next hot thing -- remember when the league went nuts hiring anyone who once shook McVay's hand? But despite the trend-chasing, the league has cracked neither the good HC or FQB code.

 If someone wrote a book about the character traits that define successful rookie coaches and where others fail.  I would probably read it.  Because I love human behavioral stuff like that.  Bill Walsh's book is probably as close as we'll get.

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5 hours ago, AFJF said:

Been a fan for about 35 years.  Trying to recall how many times I've seen a first-time head coach take over a bad team and win a ring.  Off the top of my head I can think of Doug Pederson and Mike McCarthy.  I guess Billick did it too but what an aberration..."offensive guru" whose team couldn't find the end zone but had arguably the best defense of all time.  Oh, Harbaugh and Payton too.  So four or five times in 35 years?

Who am I missing?

Dude who took over for Walsh in SF.  I forget his name.

Ditka.   Holmgren.    Jimmy Johnson    Barry Switzer    Kubiak    Parcells       Gibbs     Walsh     Lombardi    Pederson      Madden 

Flores      

Others with good success, Reid in Philly, Dungy with TB, Rivera in Carolina, Reeves in Denver,  Vermeil in Philly.  

I mean, there are only 33 different head coaches who have a SB ring.

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11 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

George Seifert. To be fair though, I'm pretty sure you or I could've gotten the 89 Niners to the SB. 

Thanks.   Same with Switzer.

I looked it up, about 50% of the SB won were by coaches on their 1st go around.  BB by himself swings it by winning 6 on his 2nd go around.   Saying most 1st time HC don't win a SB is kind of a silly comment.   Most coaches never win a SB at all, again there are only 33 total who have won.  

I mean, when Andy Reid shook lose a few years ago, some posters didn't want him because he had never won a SB, he only made 4 NFL title games and 1 Super Bowl.   Meanwhile others want Rex back because he made it to back to back AFC championships.

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3 hours ago, varjet said:

In the past the Jets have hired coordinators as HCs with the criteria that they be good coordinators without even considering if they could run and lead a team.  

Everyone has to start somewhere.  Herm Edwards actually became somewhat of a CEO leader.  I don’t think he was a coordinator.   We used to like to joke about him, but he made the playoffs a bunch.  

The man was a genius when it came to BBQ'ing..  878f07e674039f73009c8090ab580271.gif

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Somewhat off-topic but this is always the concern hiring first time HCs..IMO it doesn't matter if their background is on the O or D side 

 

Kingsbury Needs Help with Game-Day Strategy

It’s time for the Arizona Cardinals to find help for head coach Kliff Kingsbury with game-day strategy.

HOWARD BALZER

1 HOUR AGO

Is it time for Cardinals head coach Kliff Kingsbury to accept some help when it comes to the management of the entire game?

It sure appears that should happen.

While most of the outside criticism of Kingsbury has been in the realm of play-calling, that aspect is somewhat misplaced.

Kingsbury often questioned himself after games in that area, and he has to realize that foments the narrative that plays fail because of the call rather than the execution of the play.

There are myriads of reasons for plays working or not working, but most have to do with the players themselves, including the opponent. After all, when was the last time good play by the Cardinals defense was linked to poor play-calling by the other team?

However, game management is another story and that falls directly on the shoulders of the head coach. Yet, despite numerous head-scratching situations during the season, there were rarely, if ever, questions about them after games and Kingsbury never fell on the sword when they occurred.

The reality is that head coaches who call the offensive plays are so focused on their play sheet that the often crucial details of game management can get short shrift.

Kingsbury isn’t the only head coach in the NFL that calls the offensive plays, but many that do have assistants assigned to game strategy that aren’t even listed as official members of the coaching staff.

That should be on the list for what needs to happen in the offseason for the team to continue the progress there has been the last two seasons.

After all, Kingsbury acknowledged the issue in a sort of back-handed way during the 2020 season when he appeared on the Scott Van Pelt of ESPN podcast.

When asked if he would ever give up calling plays, Kingsbury said, "I would retire. It's part of the game; I couldn't just sit there and watch it. A lot of people are great at that, managing games, and that's not my strong suit. My strong suit is calling it and interacting with the quarterback. I've got to play to my strengths."

That’s why he was hired, but it’s jarring to hear Kingsbury admit managing games isn’t his “strong suit” and noting that others are great at it.

That makes it imperative that the Cardinals find someone that is at least good at it, if not great. Not only would that likely help the team improve, it could also result in Kingsbury becoming better at what he does best.

https://www.si.com/nfl/cardinals/news/kingsbury-help-game-day-strategy

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5 hours ago, AFJF said:

Which coaches?  Which years?  Which teams sucked when they took over?

Yeah but by this criteria, which coaches of any background, experience or not, took over a bad team and won a Super Bowl?

You can't even list Belichick because the Pats were good under Parcells.

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4 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

The original post reminds of the guy deciding to sit down at the street side cafe, having a couple of drinks. A couple of drinks, in , his eyes begin to wander and he starts gazing at some of the people as they walk by:

"Look at that blonde there with the short miniskirt. I knew a girl that had that same miniskirt. She was a slut. That girl is a slut".

"Look at that guy with that limp in his gait. I knew a friend that walked like that and he had muscular dystrophy. That guy has muscular dystrophy". 

"Look at that guy walking out of the bank. That rich mothereffer has money to burn and he is not sharing it with anyone". 

Personally, I have no idea who the Jets may hire, nor what his background will be. I do know that he will be different than any other coach the jets have hired. That is easy to say, because they are ALL different. I do hope the slutty blonde takes a look at us, because we are pretty dog ugly right now. My hope is that this new coach can get us to a level of respectability at this point. That is what happens to teams before they are Super Bowl contender worthy. That would be a great start. And, if that coach can not get us over the hump, then we move on. 

You have to start somewhere. 

 

;tldr

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7 hours ago, AFJF said:

Ehhhh..I think Cowher took 100 years to win one so I left him off.  Tomlin took over a SB winner so not exactly a bad team.

Gotdamn man do you want the facts or just wanna move the goalposts 

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First time HC's suck.  Former coaches who have won a Super Bowl suck.  And we just learned that hiring a HC who sucked at his first stop will suck at his 2nd one as well.

By JN logic, no HC hired will succeed, ever.  

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5 hours ago, AFJF said:

His name is Matt Rhule...oh wait....

Maybe Pat Fitzgerald?  Todd Monken?  

I dunno, somebody who has won some football games as a head coach instead of a guy with 4 years as a DC, two of which were among the worst in the NFL?

So you would have supported hiring Mike McCarthy last time around, right?

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21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

First time HC's suck.  Former coaches who have won a Super Bowl suck.  And we just learned that hiring a HC who sucked at his first stop will suck at his 2nd one as well.

By JN logic, no HC hired will succeed, ever.  

Perfect is the enemy of the good.

All Ohio State QBs suck.

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Been a fan for about 35 years.  Trying to recall how many times I've seen a first-time head coach take over a bad team and win a ring.  Off the top of my head I can think of Doug Pederson and Mike McCarthy.  I guess Billick did it too but what an aberration..."offensive guru" whose team couldn't find the end zone but had arguably the best defense of all time.  Oh, Harbaugh and Payton too.  So four or five times in 35 years?
Who am I missing?

Parcells


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app
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5 hours ago, AFJF said:

His name is Matt Rhule...oh wait....

Maybe Pat Fitzgerald?  Todd Monken?  

I dunno, somebody who has won some football games as a head coach instead of a guy with 4 years as a DC, two of which were among the worst in the NFL?

I feel like you are trying to make fetch happen with Monken. Why has nobody else hired him? He has been fired as an offensive coordinator several times.

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Well, I've been a Jets fan for 57 years and I'll tell you what I don't want.  I don't want a HC hired who previously has won a SB as a HC.  None of these recycled winning SB coaches has ever won the ring with their second gig.  That includes Lombardi, Parcels, Johnson, etc...so, if this was a post to hire Pederson, I don't want him and he is no where close to being in the same conversation at the three mentioned.

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5 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

First, let's start with the premise that there have been only 33 super bowl winning coaches. 

Then, when you start listing first time coaches (I guess the list is excluding those that coached in college), That shortens the list even more.

Then, when you want to say they started with "bad teams", that shortens the list further.

This site has a case of "this player looks like" and "this has never happened, so it can't happen". And those ideals are based upon people and teams. and circumstance. None of which are exactly alike and they forget that every person and team situation are different. 

Stop putting people and teams in boxes and making analytic statements. It is silly. 

 

This reply reminds me of a guy on a message board who had an unhealthy obsession with another guy on a message board.

It's silly.

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38 minutes ago, Maxman said:

I feel like you are trying to make fetch happen with Monken. Why has nobody else hired him? He has been fired as an offensive coordinator several times.

I don't think every guy who would make  a good head coach is currently a head coach.  Sometimes the owners get it wrong.

But I get it.  Time for optimism.  Ignore the results and tell ourselves Saleh is finally the one.

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6 hours ago, AFJF said:

Correct.  How many of them turned bad teams around in their first gig and won a ring?  Oh, and within their first 15 years.

You realize the overwhelming majority of all coaching hires never win rings right? Especially when taking over bad teams?

I'm also not sure what you're arguing... That we should hire a retread because they're more likely to win championships? Based on what, exactly? How many retread HCs have taken over bad teams and won a ring?

Good coaches are good coaches.

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59 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I don't think every guy who would make  a good head coach is currently a head coach.  Sometimes the owners get it wrong.

But I get it.  Time for optimism.  Ignore the results and tell ourselves Saleh is finally the one.

Skeptical but hopeful. Basically the status quo.

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51 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

It's a message board. Don't take yourself and your opinions so seriously.

How you interpret what I say is up to you.  None of this is serious.  It's all a hobby.

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2 hours ago, AFJF said:

I don't think every guy who would make  a good head coach is currently a head coach.  Sometimes the owners get it wrong.

But I get it.  Time for optimism.  Ignore the results and tell ourselves Saleh is finally the one.

Why would we tell ourselves that the guy who hasn't been hired yet is the one?

I don't tell people to be optimistic. I just don't have a problem if they hire a coordinator with no head coaching experience. That is more of a home run swing, and I support it if they go that route. Because that means he hasn't failed as a head coach yet.

Totally long shot but I still think it is possible to hire a 41 year old coach and have him coach here for 30 years!

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10 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Why would we tell ourselves that the guy who hasn't been hired yet is the one?

I don't tell people to be optimistic. I just don't have a problem if they hire a coordinator with no head coaching experience. That is more of a home run swing, and I support it if they go that route. Because that means he hasn't failed as a head coach yet.

Totally long shot but I still think it is possible to hire a 41 year old coach and have him coach here for 30 years!

He might be the greatest head coach in NFL history.  We just have no idea what to expect because he's never done it before.  No idea why owners are so averse to experienced coaches, but maybe they'll guess right this time.

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2 hours ago, AFJF said:

He might be the greatest head coach in NFL history.  We just have no idea what to expect because he's never done it before.  No idea why owners are so averse to experienced coaches, but maybe they'll guess right this time.

Well that is a general statement. I believe the owners here are adverse because of $.

Me personally? Bill Cowher would have been the coach I would have gone after.

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Anthony Lynn had no head coaching experience when he was hired by the Chargers. You'd figure if the candidate is a good coach they will only improve as a HC when they gain more experience. So a guy like Lynn who did a respectable job is probably better than he was 4 years ago. So why not try to take advantage of that development rather than having to groom a first time HC.  I haven't heard his name mentioned for interviews mostly the current batch of hot coordinators. I'd bring Lynn in for an interview, he was popular with players in the Chargers org I liked the job he did with them. 

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