Adam Schefter: I expect Sam Darnold to start for the Jets next season

[56mehl56]

Just now, slimjasi said:

I think Jet fans have become so accustomed to bad QB play , that even when we get mediocre play they think its good. Remember this year when Sam had a turnover free game and threw for over 200 yards - build with that beast. 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

I think Jet fans have become so accustomed to bad QB play , that even when we get mediocre play they think its good. Remember this year when Sam had a turnover free game and threw for over 200 yards - build with that beast. 

Absolutely. 

totally agree. 

[slimjasi]

edit: double post

[jgb]

double

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I think Jet fans have become so accustomed to bad QB play , that even when we get mediocre play they think its good. Remember this year when Sam had a turnover free game and threw for over 200 yards - build with that beast. 

The only QB to win a SB in the last 20 years without going to a pro bowl first is Joe Flacco, whose ghost just outperformed Sam this year. Should tell you something about our odds of winning with Sam.

[usanyj]

36 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Well the best qb's in the league from the top teams were all drafted 10 or lower. so I dont really agree with you. But if you were correct we could move up when we had a team that was not bottom of league in talent. KC is most obvious example.

You dont spend the 2 on a qb this year, same reason we should have not spent all the captol on Sam when we did. You have to give your QB a chance. Look at the browns they did same as us as far as drafting thier QB, but since then they have added talent, we did not. They even fired and got rid of bad coaches when we refused and signed up for another year of gase, but anyway the point is you build a team that can win with our a qb because when you draft one you have small window to make it work.

Agree to disagree I guess.

i just don’t see the logic in waiting if you think fields or Wilson is a franchise guy. Essentially what you’re saying is pass on a guy we view as a franchise guy because the team isn’t ready to win. Qb is the hardest position to fill and the most important position in sports, if you think you can get your guy you get him, especially if you don’t have to give up capital.

I was a big darnold guy, but you can’t say the Jets refused to get rid of bad coaches and signed up for one more year of them, then endorse keeping Sam, because he’s been bad, like, worst in the league bad, yet you want to hitch him to two guys who had no say in picking him? It just doesn’t add up to me. I’ll trust JD AND RS but I think it would be a mistake to run it back with Sam.

[Ghost420]

5 hours ago, Jetster said:

The one thing he better learn is better play action ball handling! Gase let him get lazy with that sh*t & because no one was afraid the of 37 year old Frank Gore no one even payed attention to it! A lot more stretch runs & stuff, and Sam has sneaky speed, I could see some more planned boot legs & keepers near the goal line. Douglas & Saleh are going to build a nasty, nasty Oline! JD coming from Philly & Baltimore & Saleh coming from the Niners? 
One of the Niners drafts was Mike Mclinchey RT. Sewell is a BEAST and the Jets brass wants to run the ball & protect the QB! See below boys! 2018 Draft. Mike McLinchey #9 overall! 
This guy isn’t even in the same stratosphere of Pennei Sewell. 
 

Position

Offensive tackle

College

Notre Dame

NFL Draft

2018 / Round: 1 / Pick: 9

I agree Sewell is a beast. If they stick with Sam hopefully they can help him turn it around.

[jgb]

35 minutes ago, usanyj said:

Agree to disagree I guess.

i just don’t see the logic in waiting if you think fields or Wilson is a franchise guy. Essentially what you’re saying is pass on a guy we view as a franchise guy because the team isn’t ready to win. Qb is the hardest position to fill and the most important position in sports, if you think you can get your guy you get him, especially if you don’t have to give up capital.

I was a big darnold guy, but you can’t say the Jets refused to get rid of bad coaches and signed up for one more year of them, then endorse keeping Sam, because he’s been bad, like, worst in the league bad, yet you want to hitch him to two guys who had no say in picking him? It just doesn’t add up to me. I’ll trust JD AND RS but I think it would be a mistake to run it back with Sam.

"The team isn't ready" = "I don't want to be wrong about Sam but he's impossible to defend right now, so I'll say this instead."

[carlito1171]

I personally think it’s a mistake and I will def have a short leash and short patience for him if it plays out that way.....

They better be sure they can coach the turnovers , poor decisions and poor field vision out of him...upgrading the team will help but not in those areas, that’s all up to Sam....

This decision has the potential to derail this entire regime so they have to get it correct 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, derp said:

I'm really focused on the idea of what they do at QB here and what was happening in that post. Top 32 selections is a big, big jump from top 2 selections. You can stay in the top 32 this draft with the Seattle pick. I'm not talking about taking a third round QB - but the risk/reward of taking a guy at the top of the draft. We all get excited about the prospect of drafting a top quarterback but it honestly hasn't worked out that often for guys drafted really high.

You and I both know the Newsome example is a small sample size situation. But I do think the way he's drafted quarterbacks - second half of the first round, and not when teams know you want to draft one - is something that I think Douglas may follow in. That was the point I was making.

 

Time will bear out the kind of prospect Sewell is, too. This is a really strange year to evaluate, given he never played as a junior and we're not going to get a combine. His sophomore year was pretty insane and he looks absolutely freakish physically. Based on that, to me he's in a different tier of the other position player prospects in the draft. He's also been getting dinged quite a bit lately so perhaps the stats on him from early in his career aren't representative of the kind of player he is.

I don't think it's ideal position wise and I think that years of Mike Maccagnan taking the "best player in the draft" when he's really taking an above average but not elite athlete at a non-premium position has taken its toll on the way Jets fans view drafting. On paper, heading into this season, Sewell checked the physical freak box and the good football player box and  that combination is really uncommon, IMO. And I think you take that when you can get it. But - maybe he's not actually that level of prospect. My thought that you take him has been pretty rooted in that idea, and maybe he's a much more technically raw prospect than I've given him credit for and if that's the case I could absolutely see the argument for moving down.

I also think from a roster construction standpoint - we'll see where things are after FA, but the team is pretty gross right now. You could absolutely make a case for bringing in that alpha WR, improving the iOL, and if the team loves a QB go ahead and take him. But right now if you're taking Chase or Smith at 2 or in a trade down, are you confident Darnold's not going to hold them back? Adding an OL helps in the run game and the passing game - the Jets are clearly going to be planning to run to set up the pass, too - and doesn't need someone to complement their skill set in order to make an impact like a QB needs receivers or a receiver needs a QB.

I’m not beating a drum for a QB at #2. Just to not take an OL pick there when the only OL position worthy of #2 overall is the one we’ve filled already. 

[NamathToCaster]

Do we really want to roll with Mr. Darnold?   

No we do not.

[derp]

31 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I’m not beating a drum for a QB at #2. Just to not take an OL pick there when the only position worth of #2 is the one we’ve filled already. 

And my perspective is that entirely depends on how good the prospects are. In my head I’d previously  - right or wrong - built Sewell into kind of the Calvin Johnson tier of there is just nothing major to nitpick prospect. And if he’s that but at tackle, I think it makes a big impact on your team. The rest of the position prospects in this draft have huge question marks too. I think the correct tackle prospect has a big impact day one and I’m not as opposed to the position as you are for the right prospect - don’t think either of us is changing our mind which is fine.

Frankly, taking a fair value trade - rather than a QB premium deal - from Atlanta for them to go up and get a QB would probably be a reasonable good scenario. Cincy doesn’t trade up, I kind of doubt Philly will with Hurts promising at the end of the year, Detroit would need to give their 2022 1st which I’d take in a heartbeat but they have to know how valuable that pick is and wouldn’t give it up, and Carolina seems content to just hang out and do their thing. Maybe Elway gets desperate? I just think a trade down is a stretch and the history of skinny WR prospects is unkind and has no precedent in the top 5 let alone at 2 overall.

[bitonti]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

My point is that there are ways - better ways - of building an excellent line that don't involve using two top 10 picks on tackles in back to back drafts

Becton was the 11 pick 

He didn't go top 10 

 

[CanadaSteve]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Becton was the 11 pick 

He didn't go top 10 

 

Semantics Bit.

Using the 11th pick overall on a franchise LT one year, and then using the #2 overall pick the following year on a franchise LT would be a VERY Jetsy thing to do. 

[sackdance]

15 hours ago, predator_05 said:

Trade bait. Let's see if anyone is willing to offer stupid value for the pick. It's possible. 

Im happy for Sam, I'd like to see how he looks with a different coaching staff.  

 

While Tannehill played for Gase, conventional wisdom in Miami (and amongst fans around the league) was not merely “Tanny sucks” - it was that he shouldn’t even be in the league. 

I think the new HC/OC can help Darnold become a genuine asset. 

[bitonti]

16 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Semantics Bit.

Using the 11th pick overall on a franchise LT one year, and then using the #2 overall pick the following year on a franchise LT would be a VERY Jetsy thing to do. 

It would be a smart thing to do

Jetsy would be reach on qb2 out of need 

Despite not having any offense around at all to support this player 

It's literally what they just did with Sam Darnold 

[Sperm Edwards]

39 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Becton was the 11 pick 

He didn't go top 10 

 

That’s the hill you’re going to die on? 11 vs 10? 

No one has ever upgraded their RT by using the #2 overall pick, if you want to go that route. Not unless the prospect drafted is a flop LT and is stowed at RT until that guaranteed rookie contract has expired.

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That’s the hill you’re going to die on? 11 vs 10? 

No one has ever upgraded their RT by using the #2 overall pick, if you want to go that route. Not unless the prospect drafted is a flop LT and is stowed at RT until that guaranteed rookie contract has expired.

I'm not dying on any hill. Facts are facts. 

Teams upgrade their lt at 2 all the time 

Becton is a pro bowl snub. He led fans voting which means players and coaches did not agree. He did not make it to all pro either

He gave up 7 sacks, missed 2 games and was one of the best run blockers in the game 

Becton could be an all pro at right tackle. The jets play him at lt out of necessity 

None of this is to bash Becton. They just need to build around him 

Sewell and Becton are complimentary players. Having one makes the other better. 

[Rhg1084]

24 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It would be a smart thing to do

Jetsy would be reach on qb2 out of need 

Despite not having any offense around at all to support this player 

It's literally what they just did with Sam Darnold 

The Jetsy to do would be to draft Sewell and watch Fields and Wilson go on to become Watson and Herbert. Meanwhile we’ll still be looking for a QB for the next 50 years.

[Larz]

Give Sam devonta smith?

I can’t shake the feeling that 3 years from now he will be the best player in this draft 

[CanadaSteve]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

It would be a smart thing to do

Jetsy would be reach on qb2 out of need 

Despite not having any offense around at all to support this player 

It's literally what they just did with Sam Darnold 

Who wants to draft a QB at 2?

Not this guy....

[oatmeal]

2 hours ago, Larz said:

Give Sam devonta smith?

I can’t shake the feeling that 3 years from now he will be the best player in this draft 

Broncos gave a trash QB a stud receiver from the draft last year, the receiver naturally had a underwhelming season and took shots at the trash QB. 
 

Guess fans want that here with our inaccurate trash qb ?‍♂️

[QB1]

How does this thread have 12 pages? Haven’t we exhausted the Darnold topic at this point. 

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, QB1 said:

How does this thread have 12 pages? Haven’t we exhausted the Darnold topic at this point. 

It’s not going away anytime soon. 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

I'm not dying on any hill. Facts are facts. 

Teams upgrade their lt at 2 all the time 

Becton is a pro bowl snub. He led fans voting which means players and coaches did not agree. He did not make it to all pro either

He gave up 7 sacks, missed 2 games and was one of the best run blockers in the game 

Becton could be an all pro at right tackle. The jets play him at lt out of necessity 

None of this is to bash Becton. They just need to build around him 

Sewell and Becton are complimentary players. Having one makes the other better. 

Teams who just drafted a LT with their first round pick, and are happy with his play, attempt to upgrade at #2 overall “all the time”?? Name one time that’s happened. All the time suggests you should easily come up with 10 examples, but I’d love to hear one example. 

I’m not going to go into detail addressing the silliness of the idea that a rookie - who was expected to be less refined right away, and then was a rookie during the covid summer and then further played next to suspect LGs and blocked for a QB who holds the ball too long - has already shown his ceiling, which is what you’re suggesting by harping on a rookie stat in that setting. In that case the Jets should’ve given up on Ferguson and drafted a new LT a year and/or two later because he was a just-ok pass blocker and substandard run blocker for his first couple seasons before finally coming into his own as a top 5 LT for a few year stretch.

You overestimate the value of one alleged probowl (or even all pro) player. I think you’re still upset over the Adams trade that every Seattle fan wishes their team could undo. 

There is no serious track record of a team building successfully by drafting a LT at/around #2 overall a year after drafting a LT at/around #10 overall who looked better than expected/hoped as a rookie.

[DetroitRed]

No need to argue.  The new coach will make the call on Sam

[doitny]

get the WR everyone is drooling over. make this an explosive offense. im sure we could get a decent RT with the Seattle pick. 

Devonta Smith will give defense headaches for years to come. 

[QB1]

Ok so the only thing I’ll say on the subject is that the decision isn’t simply Darnold vs. Fields/Wilson. It’s Sam + 3-4 premium pick players vs. those guys. Keeping Sam allows us to trade out of 2 which would net us at least an extra 2nd this year and a 1st next year (probably more based on precedent) plus the ability to use our 1st pick on a blue chip player like Pitts, Smith, or Chase. 

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

get the WR everyone is drooling over. make this an explosive offense. im sure we could get a decent RT with the Seattle pick. 

Devonta Smith will give defense headaches for years to come. 

Need to improve the guard spots before right tackle.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

All Sam needs is a white helmet.  He was a budding all star before the Jets switched to green.

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, DetroitRed said:

No need to argue.  The new coach will make the call on Sam

are you telling me they dont listen to what we say here wtf

[Greenseed4]

I don’t see the allure of sticking with Sam and not extracting the most possible value out of that #2 pick by trading down with a QB hungry team; getting at least a 2022 first on top of some extra mid round picks this year, maybe next. 

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, Maxman said:

Need to improve the guard spots before right tackle.

Drafting the tackle means they can use anyone at guard 

Playing guard next to an excellent tackle is easy. Ask pat elflein 

[bitonti]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Name one time that’s happened.

You overestimate the value of one alleged probowl (or even all pro) player. I think you’re still upset over the Adams trade that every Seattle fan wishes their team could undo. 

There is no serious track record of a team building successfully by drafting a LT at/around #2 overall a year after drafting a LT at/around #10 overall who looked better than expected/hoped as a rookie.

Again I'll name that when you go through every bum that was ever drafted at 2 overall to play qb. Not around 2 overall, exactly at 2

By the way I do regret a deal the Jets made but it's not Adams. It was when the Jets passed on Quenton Nelson and 3 2nd Rd picks for Sam Darnold. They could have just stuck at 6. 

Nelson was such a clean prospect. Team leader. Sewell is Quenton Nelson but at tackle. Instant all pro. It's a chance to rebuild the line. It's a chance to build an identity.

And most importantly it's a very low risk pick compared to the qb 

Put it another way. Do you play poker? Fields or Wilson is going all in on a coin flip. AKs vs pocket queens.

Sewell is like AA over 22... He's got the best pff grade in history the only sophomore Outland trophy winner. it would be hitting the two out card if he doesn't pan out 

[Irish Jet]

15 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

List all the playoff teams that used their 2 high 1st round draft picks on their OL (in successive years, no less). I'll stay on the line. 

So because those lines haven’t been constructed in exactly that way they’re suddenly not worth it?

Cleveland gave a second contract to a former Top 10 pick as well as spending one on a tackle. That is a similar level of investment, more even in terms of the cap. Their priority was the same and look at what it’s done for them. Best in the league, blowing teams away.  6-10 to 11-5.

You’re far too obsessed with allocation of resources when all that matters is what the end result is on the field. A dominant line will almost always lead to success. The dominant interior which you’ve previously compared it to does not, which is why that comparison to Mac’s love of DT’s doesn’t hold.