Adam Schefter: I expect Sam Darnold to start for the Jets next season

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Biggs said:

I would love to have a great QB.  The reality is we didn't draft one when they were available.  Josh Allen is likely to be the best QB in our division for the next 10 years regardless of who we draft.  We ain't winning a SB by drafting the best QB in the league.  

While I don't think Darnold is good enough to be a quality game manager we can get one in FA.   We might even have one in Morgan?

None of this post makes sense.  Are you saying the Jets are incapable of drafting an elite QB?  Or that drafting an elite QB doesn't matter, and/or isn't a worthwhile venture?

Yes, lets sign a game manager.  That always works out great for a franchise.  And it worked out great for us with the likes of Ryan Fitzpatrick (2nd season he was here) and Josh McCown.  No-mans land is the place to be, clearly.

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, ChuckkieB said:

A rookie QB has to learn a new playbook, play with new players, and adapt a new team philosophy no matter how much experience the coach might have, so I don't think it makes much of a difference.  

Yes, but you don’t want the rookie doing that at the same time as every O player. You want to insert the rookie on a unit that knows the plays frontwards and backwards. The rookie QB will make enough mistakes. You don’t need to add to it the mistakes that every other O player will make while learning the scheme and playbook.

[ChuckkieB]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Yes, but you don’t want the rookie doing that at the same time as every O player. You want to insert the rookie on a unit that knows the plays frontwards and backwards. The rookie QB will make enough mistakes. You don’t need to add to it the mistakes that every other O player will make while learning the scheme and playbook.

The situation might not be ideal, but the Jets need a QB (in my opinion) and they cannot pass on one simply because the best logistical circumstances haven't presented themselves.     

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, y2k8 said:

Sam is free money. Why start the clock when you don't have to?

game theory this thing out

it's in everyone's best interest to talk up Sam Darnold

if JD wants to trade Sam he can't say he doesn't believe in him and leak that Fields and Wilson are better prospects 

if Saleh wants to remake the team with his players he needs time to do it (not a 1 year all in)

there is no FA spend binge coming

they need to maximize Sam's value to get a trade for Sam

they need to Maximize Sewell's value to get a trade down 

there is no real outcome where anyone is trading up for Fields or Wilson 

on paper yes the QBs should have more value than the OT but not those QBs and not this OT 

 

 

[Sonny Werblin]

1 minute ago, ChuckkieB said:

The situation might not be ideal, but the Jets need a QB (in my opinion) and they cannot pass on one simply because the best logistical circumstances haven't presented themselves.     

Fair enough. There is more than one way to skin a cat. 

[oatmeal]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

game theory this thing out

it's in everyone's best interest to talk up Sam Darnold

if JD wants to trade Sam he can't say he doesn't believe in him and leak that Fields and Wilson are better prospects 

if Saleh wants to remake the team with his players he needs time to do it (not a 1 year all in)

there is no FA spend binge coming

they need to maximize Sam's value to get a trade for Sam

they need to Maximize Sewell's value to get a trade down 

there is no real outcome where anyone is trading up for Fields or Wilson 

on paper yes the QBs should have more value than the OT but not those QBs and not this OT 

 

 

I finally agree with you bruh ?

You’re 3000% correct though 

[Jets723]

5 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

The situation might not be ideal, but the Jets need a QB (in my opinion) and they cannot pass on one simply because the best logistical circumstances haven't presented themselves.     

I don’t JD is the type to force something.  If he doesn’t love either at 2 he won’t force it and pick them.  Honestly we don’t know what his plan is.  It’s possible he hadn’t made up his mind either.  A lot of things need to be explored yet 

[bitonti]

49 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Logic is the reliable source here.  

They will trade Sam and take a QB at 2.  

Which QB they take or what they get for Sam are the two things we should be discussing.  

This is not logic 

Logic requires A to be true, B to be true, therefore C. 

this is like "the secret"

There WILL Be a Tesla outside my house when i look next 

um...nope... it's still a rusted out sh*tbox with no hubcaps

remember that James Bond movie never say never? 

They probably will trade Sam. They might take a QB at 2. 

these outcomes could come to pass but 

talking in absolutes has no place in the NFL draft

 and when i see posters like you and @slats saying things are definitely going to happen it sounds more like bargaining than prediction 

 

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

Surround him with a veteran offense and you have recreated the Rex and Sanchez era. 

Great!  Where's our Revis, David Harris, and elite Offensive Line coming from?

And what trophies did Rex and Sanchez win, by the way?

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

And if they are not sold on Justin Fields or Zach Wilson?  You would prefer they waste the #2 overall pick on a QB they don't like?  I can see the headlines now calling for JD's head if one of those two QB's don't work out.

There are several quality QB prospects in this draft.  Grab one and add a veteran option while you're at it.  There is no circumstance where Sam Darnold should be the unquestioned starter in 2021.  That alone would be a fireable offense for Joe Douglas.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, fullblast said:

We traded 3 #2 picks and will pony up 25 mill in a year for a game manager. Awesome.

And it's not even a true statement.  Sam Darnold isn't a game manager.  He's the worst possible choice for that role.  He's a gunslinger who doesn't throw touchdowns and finishes with less than 200 yards nearly every game.  I.E. in many ways he's a Mark Sanchez clone.

[Philc1]

It’s impossible for Sam to improve if we build an actual roster with a competent coaching staff - IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

There are several quality QB prospects in this draft.  Grab one and add a veteran option while you're at it.  There is no circumstance where Sam Darnold should be the unquestioned starter in 2021.  That alone would be a fireable offense for Joe Douglas.

We are drafting whatever qb falls to 23.  It’s going to be one of Lance, Wilson, Trask or Jones

 

If Sam sucks playing behind an all-world O-line with better WRs than last year the new kid will get a chance

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Adam Gase.

Darnold sucked prior to Adam Gase.  He's not to blame for all of his problems.  No coach ever is when it comes to bad QB's.

[Philc1]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Darnold sucked prior to Adam Gase.  He's not to blame for all of his problems.  No coach ever is when it comes to bad QB's.

Oh right because Todd Bowles was good

[slats]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

This is not logic 

Logic requires A to be true, B to be true, therefore C. 

this is like "the secret"

There WILL Be a Tesla outside my house when i look next 

um...nope... it's still a rusted out sh*tbox with no hubcaps

remember that James Bond movie never say never? 

They probably will trade Sam. They might take a QB at 2. 

these outcomes could come to pass but 

talking in absolutes has no place in the NFL draft

 and when i see posters like you and @slats saying things are definitely going to happen it sounds more like bargaining than prediction 

 

I’ve only said one that is not going to happen. You just said yesterday that Saleh was out of the picture. People say things. 
 
FWIW, I think we’re hearing a lot about Sam sticking because he’s going to stick. If that’s the case, I expect a trade down from #2. They’ll be linked to Sewell to help drive the value of the pick, but they’re not picking him. 
 
If they stick with Sam, they’ll still need another QB. I’d expect a starting caliber vet in free agency, but it’s also possible they take one later in the first or in the second round. Kinda like the Eagles and Wentz/Hurts. 

[oatmeal]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

We are drafting whatever qb falls to 23.  It’s going to be one of Lance, Wilson, Trask or Jones

 

If Sam sucks playing behind an all-world O-line with better WRs than last year the new kid will get a chance

God please no on those 2 ???

[Jets Voice of Reason]

31 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

None of this post makes sense.  Are you saying the Jets are incapable of drafting an elite QB?  Or that drafting an elite QB doesn't matter, and/or isn't a worthwhile venture?

Yes, lets sign a game manager.  That always works out great for a franchise.  And it worked out great for us with the likes of Ryan Fitzpatrick (2nd season he was here) and Josh McCown.  No-mans land is the place to be, clearly.

Colts and Bears are way better teams, but I don't envy the position they are in of being good enough for the playoffs, but not being good enough to get a bye and win the SB.

[slats]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And it's not even a true statement.  Sam Darnold isn't a game manager.  He's the worst possible choice for that role.  He's a gunslinger who doesn't throw touchdowns and finishes with less than 200 yards nearly every game.  I.E. in many ways he's a Mark Sanchez clone.

If the Jets choose to stick with Sam, I hope he makes you look more foolish than Josh Allen has. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, y2k8 said:

You're just wrong. The consequences for taking a flyer at #2 for a raw QB prospect and it not working out are infinitely higher than passing on a QB that goes on to be good. Macagnan was fired because he had terrible draft after terrible draft, not because he picked Sam or passed on Mahomes. Lots of teams pass on a player. Only one picks him. 

This is only true if you keep that failure of a QB around for too long, like the Jets always seem to do.  The Cardinals "failed quickly" with Josh Rosen.  Had they passed on Kyler Murray because of Rosen's presence (like Maccagnan did by passing on Mahomes/Watson because of Hackenberg), THAT would be what truly set the franchise back.  Instead, the Rosen pick didn't really set them back at all.

[Philc1]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

This is only true if you keep that failure of a QB around for too long, like the Jets always seem to do.  The Cardinals "failed quickly" with Josh Rosen.  Had they passed on Kyler Murray because of Rosen's presence (like Maccagnan did by passing on Mahomes/Watson because of Hackenberg), THAT would be what truly set the franchise back.  Instead, the Rosen pick didn't really set them back at all.

Murray with Kingsbury coaching him >>>>>>>>> Fields

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, Jetster said:

What do you think the Jets are going to do with close to 100 million in free agency & only one guy (Maye) that deserves a new market contract? You fans wanting more & more draft picks make it seem like you could have 7/8 rookies starting next year from this draft class & that just isn't happening. 

If all 3 of our top picks start & play well I'll be happy. #2, #23, #34. I've said this before, I only see 2 teams that might trade up with the Jets & that's Cincy or the Falcons for Sewell.  Miami isn't taking a QB, Atlanta? Who knows what they'll do but Matt Ryan still played well this year, then you have Cincy. 

I'd trade back with Cincy or Atlanta I just don't think with the cap being low teams will be willing to give up draft capital for Fields, Wilson or Sewell. 

I get the first part (the unrealistic fantasy many have of 4-5 rookies from this class starting in 2021) but it's also a bit of an oversimplification to see all the picks as "start him in 2021 or he sucks" as well. There's something to be said for a high-end prospect getting feathered in gradually. Only OL and QB don't do that.  

#2 overall - when there are desirable QB prospects in play at that draft slot - is wayyyyy overkill for a RT, which is where the hole is. And in truth it's a desired upgrade, not an absolute hole, seeing how Fant is under contract if they choose to keep him. 

Just because we have a lot of picks isn't therefore a justification to reach to fill a typically lower-end position with a premium pick. While #2 may not be reaching for Sewell individually, #2 is a reach for a RT. Not only isn't it difficult to fill the RT slot with a much lower pick than #2, it's what playoff and championship teams do >90% of the time. We have plenty of opportunity to upgrade RT more than adequately well after pick #2. Hopefully - and presumably - Douglas sees it that way. The leaks seem to indicate as much.

• FA G
• FA G/C (McGovern staying at C or sliding to G depending who's signed)
• draft RT well outside the top 10 overall
• draft another interior OL for depth and to take over or McGovern if he doesn't bounce back.

FFS well before I'd draft a RT 2nd in the country I'd trade down from #2, then trade that 1st round pick (or our pick at #23) to a cap-needy team short on picks for an established star still in his prime, and pocket the extra trade-down pick(s).

Either draft a QB, or if one isn't deemed worthy of #2 overall then trade down, because upgrading RT isn't worthy of #2 overall either.

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

 You just said yesterday that Saleh was out of the picture. People say things. 
 
FWIW, I think we’re hearing a lot about Sam sticking because he’s going to stick. If that’s the case, I expect a trade down from #2. They’ll be linked to Sewell to help drive the value of the pick, but they’re not picking him. 
 
If they stick with Sam, they’ll still need another QB 

touche

this is some logic as well

ok so let's insist they never ever will take Sewell 

however if we also say they will drive up his value for get a trade

for a bluff to be credible it has to be somewhat real

 if everyone believes in DJ's assertion that Slater is worth more than Sewell (hah) then there is no trade market at all at 2 

Sewell is ultra-premium, and an actual possibility at 2 overall 

to say otherwise is "secreting"

they will never take Sewell because I don't want them to take Sewell is not logic 

ps - they have another QB his names is James Captain Morgan

[slimjasi]

9 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

We are drafting whatever qb falls to 23.  It’s going to be one of Lance, Wilson, Trask or Jones

 

If Sam sucks playing behind an all-world O-line with better WRs than last year the new kid will get a chance

Lance is a good looking prospect 

[FidelioJet]

17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

This is not logic 

Logic requires A to be true, B to be true, therefore C. 

this is like "the secret"

There WILL Be a Tesla outside my house when i look next 

um...nope... it's still a rusted out sh*tbox with no hubcaps

remember that James Bond movie never say never? 

They probably will trade Sam. They might take a QB at 2. 

these outcomes could come to pass but 

talking in absolutes has no place in the NFL draft

 and when i see posters like you and @slats saying things are definitely going to happen it sounds more like bargaining than prediction 

 

Nope.  They WILL trade Sam and WILL take  a QB at 2.

If Joe D (A) wants to keep his Job (B) he must trade Sam and take a QB (C)

It really is that simple.  Self preservation will dictate that Sam gets traded and they take a QB at 2.  

Not complicated and wether he knows it yet or not it is the inevitable conclusion JD will come to. 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Nope.  They WILL trade Sam and WILL take  a QB at 2.

If Joe D (A) wants to keep his Job (B) he must trade Sam and take a QB (C)

It really is that simple.  Self preservation will dictate that Sam gets traded and they take a QB at 2.  

Not complicated and wether he knows it yet or not it is the inevitable conclusion JD will come to. 

sigh

that's not logic and repeating it over and over doesn't make it logic

brought to you by Carls Jr

it's more like a parent yelling at their child 

YOU WILL MAKE YOUR BED 

it might be the best outcome it might be the outcome you want the most but the Jets don't respond to orders and again, nothing is certain in the NFL draft 

 

 

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Lance is a good looking prospect 

In the right system he could be what Kaepernick was his first couple years in the NFL

[section314]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

touche

this is some logic as well

ok so let's insist they never ever will take Sewell 

however if we also say they will drive up his value for get a trade

for a bluff to be credible it has to be somewhat real

 if everyone believes in DJ's assertion that Slater is worth more than Sewell (hah) then there is no trade market at all at 2 

Sewell is ultra-premium, and an actual possibility at 2 overall 

to say otherwise is "secreting"

they will never take Sewell because I don't want them to take Sewell is not logic 

ps - they have another QB his names is James Captain Morgan

The future. Book it.

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Nope.  They WILL trade Sam and WILL take  a QB at 2.

If Joe D (A) wants to keep his Job (B) he must trade Sam and take a QB (C)

It really is that simple.  Self preservation will dictate that Sam gets traded and they take a QB at 2.  

Not complicated and wether he knows it yet or not it is the inevitable conclusion JD will come to. 

Fields will get JD and Saleh both fired 

[oatmeal]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I get the first part (the unrealistic fantasy many have of 4-5 rookies from this class starting in 2021) but it's also a bit of an oversimplification to see all the picks as "start him in 2021 or he sucks" as well. There's something to be said for a high-end prospect getting feathered in gradually. Only OL and QB don't do that.  

#2 overall - when there are desirable QB prospects in play at that draft slot - is wayyyyy overkill for a RT, which is where the hole is. And in truth it's a desired upgrade, not an absolute hole, seeing how Fant is under contract if they choose to keep him. 

Just because we have a lot of picks isn't therefore a justification to reach to fill a typically lower-end position with a premium pick. While #2 may not be reaching for Sewell individually, #2 is a reach for a RT. Not only isn't it difficult to fill the RT slot with a much lower pick than #2, it's what playoff and championship teams do >90% of the time. We have plenty of opportunity to upgrade RT more than adequately well after pick #2. Hopefully - and presumably - Douglas sees it that way. The leaks seem to indicate as much.

• FA G
• FA G/C (McGovern staying at C or sliding to G depending who's signed)
• draft RT well outside the top 10 overall
• draft another interior OL for depth and to take over or McGovern if he doesn't bounce back.

FFS well before I'd draft a RT 2nd in the country I'd trade down from #2, then trade that 1st round pick (or our pick at #23) to a cap-needy team short on picks for an established star still in his prime, and pocket the extra trade-down pick(s).

Either draft a QB, or if one isn't deemed worthy of #2 overall then trade down, because upgrading RT isn't worthy of #2 overall either.

Great post, it should definitely be Qb or trade down imo 

[theron]

Trade the #2 then draft a QB with mid-late Pick. (Mac Jones, Trask ,Ridder)

Battle it out with Rookie ,Sam and Morgan . One of them should be a competent QB . If Sam plays well and your Rookie shows promise you still can trade one of them for a high pick 

[slats]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

they will never take Sewell because I don't want them to take Sewell is not logic 

They won’t take him because taking OTs high in the first round in back-to-back drafts is poor team building. If the best non-QB this year was an Edge, that player would be very much in play and maybe too good to pass on. They’ll pass on the OT because they already have a really good young cheap one. 
 
And JD likes moar picks. We know that from just one draft and the Adams deal. If they don’t love a QB, they’ll take the best offer to move down. 

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, slats said:

If the Jets choose to stick with Sam, I hope he makes you look more foolish than Josh Allen has. 

I hope so too.  But hoping for an extreme anomlay is a terrible bet, and I don't want a GM/HC combo relying on that entering the season.  

Evaluate this statement:  Sam Darnold entering the 2021 season as the unquestioned starter would be a poor outcome.  

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

touche

this is some logic as well

ok so let's insist they never ever will take Sewell 

however if we also say they will drive up his value for get a trade

for a bluff to be credible it has to be somewhat real

 if everyone believes in DJ's assertion that Slater is worth more than Sewell (hah) then there is no trade market at all at 2 

Sewell is ultra-premium, and an actual possibility at 2 overall 

to say otherwise is "secreting"

they will never take Sewell because I don't want them to take Sewell is not logic 

ps - they have another QB his names is James Captain Morgan

I might be confused on the definition of secreting because trying to manifest a quarterback out of James Morgan seems like that.

[Mike135]

Great news!  Now build a great oline (via draft n Thuney) and sign Allen Robinson.