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Dan Orlovsky interview just now on ESPN. "This isn't just a good match, it's the perfect fit for Sam Darnold"


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I trust whatever JD does but I do think he still believes in Sam being the QB.  That doesn’t mean he will be come the spring but I do feel it’s starting to lean toward to the Jets keeping him.  I also feel Douglas wants more picks Given how many holes we have.  

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Quick interview just now on ESPN with Greeny and Orlovsky.   On why Saleh is a great coach and fit for the Jets... 1) Excellent listener.  Too many coaches talk at players.  He listens.

As frustrated as I was this year, and I know all of you were as well, I don't think it's time to give up on a 23 year old QB with experience under horrific conditions. New regime, new Sam, put somethi

Maybe Darnold isn't ruined... Maybe he just needs a little love and attention...  

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1 hour ago, Lurker89 said:

It's gonna be hard to get behind another season of Sam ....  I like Sam but he looked so broken this year.

Exactly how I feel, and I think most fans feel.  Good guy, but has looked like a bad QB.  His best year seemed to be his first year.  The question of why he regressed hasn't been answered.  Perhaps he just revealed who he really is as a QB, was figured out  once putting up some film, etc.  Or, maybe the coaching and roster condition really was 75% of the reason.  We'll see.

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Going into the season I just wanted him to not be a trash bag... Then he was a trash bag full of holes oozing trash juice and roaches.

3 years of play peaked his rookie year and now we have to think about paying him .... 

I guess it's up to Joe and Saleh if they want to die on that hill and pass on the prospects at hand.

This is why they're here, to make tough decisions.  I've said before that getting the HC decision right is more important than the QB in the short term.  I still believe that.  Unless Trevor drops to #2 there is no sure thing QB available.  If the Jets feel that Wilson, Fields and Darnold all have a similar risk/reward profile then it wouldn't shock me to exercise the 5th year option and maximize the value of the #2 pick in a trade down or taking Sewell, rather than using it for a very expensive (Draft-wise) lottery ticket.

I've been a little tough on JD in the face of the wide praise he's gotten here.  I didn't like last offseason's plan at WR and the OLine rebuild was expensive to only bring it up to the Meh level.  I'm also concerned about every pick he made from Round 2-4.  BUT, I have to point to three great things he's done IMO.... His picks in Rounds 1 and 2 last year absolutely threaded the needle on Value/Need/BPA.  Becton and Mims (after a trade down) look like super solid picks.  Second, his trade of Jamal Adams was very shrewd.  He got more value than most people thought he would for a guy that would be holding out or leaving right now, and saved the Jets money.  Third, I think JD counseled Christopher Johnson well on how to handle the coaching situation.  Keeping Gase thru the end of the season, believe it or not, was a good move.  The team wasn't good, Gase was a bad coach, but he never lost the locker room and the team won 2 of its final 3 games against playoff teams.  It was the fair and appropriate thing to do, retaining Gase until Black Monday.  The fear that not firing Gase midseason would delay their ability to jump on a HC hire was completely debunked last night.  JD got his guy and seems to have a plan for this organization.

With all that said, those three reasons are why I trust the Jets to make the right decision at QB.  Know this, if the Jets have both a GM and a new HC, neither of whom drafted Darnold, AND with Wilson, Fields and others on the board they decide to KEEP Sam Darnold then that is very, very, VERY telling.

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36 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Quick interview just now on ESPN with Greeny and Orlovsky.  

On why Saleh is a great coach and fit for the Jets...

1) Excellent listener.  Too many coaches talk at players.  He listens.

2) Thrived in adversity.  Lost lots of players, defense continued to perform.  He's adaptable.

3) Bringing LaFleur.  The Shanahan tree works.  It's all over the league and succeeding.  To be good on offense in the NFL you need either a great QB or a great OC.

Now on Sam....

Says this isn't just a good match for Sam Darnold, "it's the exact perfect fit."  Described the offense a bit, talked about easy throws and decision making.  Said he is connected to Darnold thru people and at one point Orlovsky was asked by those close to Darnold, "If Sam is going to move on from the Jets where should he go?"  Orlovsky replied, "Do whatever you can to get to San Francisco and under Shanahan!"  Now, the SF offense comes to Sam instead of him having to go there.  Also said that Schefter doesn't just say things or speculate, if he's saying he thinks Darnold stays it's because someone very close to the Jets or the new coaches told him that.

Please add more or clarify if anyone else heard it!

 

 

I mean, your dear Ol’ Ape has been saying this for 3 years.

What remains to be seen now is if Sam can be untrained in all the bad coaching, mechanical tendencies and mental mush-mosh he’s developed. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I have no issue if they keep darnold

I have no issue if they draft a QB, but you better love the new QB at #2 and feel he is going to be a franchise guy.  If you do not like darnold and do not like the draft QBs go get someone in Fa for a year or two and keep looking.

Agree 100 percent....what people don't seem to realize is picking the wrong QB at 2 sets the team back MUCH further then giving Sam another year and that not working out....also there's QBs in every draft rated just as high as Fields and Wilson they aren't a once in a generation prospects like Lawrence so you better be in LOVE with whoever you pick.

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28 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

That’s very telling, why would Sams people do this if him and the GM share the same agent? Something doesn’t sound right 🤷‍♂️

It may have just been another data point.  Asking as many people as possible for opinions and input?

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11 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

If they keep Darnold.. 🤣

We can start speculating about who the big competition for #1 overall is again

This^^^ 

 

 and scouting 2022 QB class 😢😢

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2 minutes ago, undertow said:

Agree 100 percent....what people don't seem to realize is picking the wrong QB at 2 sets the team back MUCH further then giving Sam another year and that not working out....also there's QBs in every draft rated just as high as Fields and Wilson they aren't a once in a generation prospects like Lawrence so you better be in LOVE with whoever you pick.

Agreed.  Maybe Douglas doesn’t love either guy at 2.  He doesn’t seem to be the type of guy to force anything 

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23 minutes ago, Dcat said:

so unwise believing Sam can be fixed.  

We are all in for tremendous disappointment if the plan is to fix Darnold.  

I have no idea.  But as smart as you are my friend, I have to go with JD, Saleh and LaFleur regarding their judgement here.  Whether they go with Darnold or Wilson or someone else, I'll back it.

However, when I need legal advice, I know who to call. :D

 

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34 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

12 months from tom we'll be thinking about drafting a QB in middle of next years draft and wondering how much it would cost to trade up trade up.

Well as of now we have two 1st and two 3rds plus we could have more if we trade out of #2 this year.  So we may be in very good position to trade up if it comes to that.  Maybe building out the roster this year and grabbing the QB next year isn't as awful as it sounds.  And that's assuming (as many of you do, but isn't absolutely certain) that Darnold can't have an Allen-esque like turnaround next season under LaFleur and with better talent around him.  Even a small chance that happens would have enormous dividends.

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2 minutes ago, undertow said:

Agree 100 percent....what people don't seem to realize is picking the wrong QB at 2 sets the team back MUCH further then giving Sam another year and that not working out....also there's QBs in every draft rated just as high as Fields and Wilson they aren't a once in a generation prospects like Lawrence so you better be in LOVE with whoever you pick.

I am not convinced he is as bad a QB as he showed the last two years. You have to consider his coaching as a major factor. Dowell Logains? You think he is getting another job? Gase?

I would not be against Sam for this year with a solid veteran backup. I know the argument for a QB at 2, but as others said, you have to be 100% correct on it. 

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3 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I have no idea.  But as smart as you are my friend, I have to go with JD, Saleh and LaFleur regarding their judgement here.  Whether they go with Darnold or Wilson or someone else, I'll back it.

However, when I need legal advice, I know who to call. :D

 

Could not agree more.  To me, Josh Allen looked 100% unfixable after 2019.  But I was wrong.  Everyone has to remember, your opinions are not facts.  And the opinions of Douglas, Saleh and the people they bring in to help evaluate these things are probably more likely to be right than any of ours.  I know a few people here will absolutely disagree with that notion, but they would be wrong. :D

 

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I dunno about Lafleur's take on it, but what always bugged me was the language of West Coast systems, and how unnecessarily complex they are. 

An example of an actual playcall of Shanahan's:

Far Double Wing Right 'B' Right Outside Fake 18 HO Force QB Naked Left

Ready? Er . . . no. BREAK!

An example of a call from Weis' 2004 Pats playbook:

0 Trips

 

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10 minutes ago, undertow said:

Agree 100 percent....what people don't seem to realize is picking the wrong QB at 2 sets the team back MUCH further then giving Sam another year and that not working out....also there's QBs in every draft rated just as high as Fields and Wilson they aren't a once in a generation prospects like Lawrence so you better be in LOVE with whoever you pick.

I agree with this except the Lawrence part, top prospect in the draft?  yes, generational?  No

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2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Exactly how I feel, and I think most fans feel.  Good guy, but has looked like a bad QB.  His best year seemed to be his first year.  The question of why he regressed hasn't been answered.  Perhaps he just revealed who he really is as a QB, was figured out  once putting up some film, etc.  Or, maybe the coaching and roster condition really was 75% of the reason.  We'll see.

This is why they're here, to make tough decisions.  I've said before that getting the HC decision right is more important than the QB in the short term.  I still believe that.  Unless Trevor drops to #2 there is no sure thing QB available.  If the Jets feel that Wilson, Fields and Darnold all have a similar risk/reward profile then it wouldn't shock me to exercise the 5th year option and maximize the value of the #2 pick in a trade down or taking Sewell, rather than using it for a very expensive (Draft-wise) lottery ticket.

I've been a little tough on JD in the face of the wide praise he's gotten here.  I didn't like last offseason's plan at WR and the OLine rebuild was expensive to only bring it up to the Meh level.  I'm also concerned about every pick he made from Round 2-4.  BUT, I have to point to three great things he's done IMO.... His picks in Rounds 1 and 2 last year absolutely threaded the needle on Value/Need/BPA.  Becton and Mims (after a trade down) look like super solid picks.  Second, his trade of Jamal Adams was very shrewd.  He got more value than most people thought he would for a guy that would be holding our or leaving right now, and saved the Jets money.  Third, I think JD counseled Christopher Johnson well on how to handle the coaching situation.  Keeping Gase thru the end of the season, believe it or not, was a good move.  The team wasn't good, Gase was a bad coach, but he never lost the locker room and the team won 2 of its final 3 games against playoff teams.  It was the fair and appropriate thing to do, retaining Gase until Black Monday.  The fear that not firing Gase midseason would delay their ability to jump on a HC hire was completely debunked last night.  JD got his guy and seems to have a plan for this organization.

With all that said, those three reasons are why I trust the Jets to make the right decision at QB.  Know this, if the Jets have both a GM and a new HC, neither of whom drafted Darnold, AND with Wilson, Fields and others on the board they decide to KEEP Sam Darnold then that is very, very, VERY telling.

On that, I believe JD and Saleh are the type to go with what they believe is best and not hear outside noise. 

JD x Saleh BABY!!

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I resigned myself to a 4th year of Darnold awhile ago. The media is trying to spin the line that the organization still thinks more of him than we do, but who knows the validity of that. It is the season of misinformation as well, and what better way to create value for both Darnold and the pick than to let their be some uncertainty about both. 

If we are trusting JD to turn the franchise around then we'll have to trust what he thinks about Fields and Wilson long-term as well. He might not love them as prospects if he opts to trade the pick more than he believes in Darnold.

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46 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

It's gonna be hard to get behind another season of Sam ....  I like Sam but he looked so broken this year.

Going into the season I just wanted him to not be a trash bag... Then he was a trash bag full of holes oozing trash juice and roaches.

3 years of play peaked his rookie year and now we have to think about paying him .... 

I guess it's up to Joe and Saleh if they want to die on that hill and pass on the prospects at hand.

I agree. 

Irony is, if this had been done a year ago, we moved on from gase, brought in Saleh who seemed likely to implement the Shanahan offense, I would have pumped to see what Darnold would do.  Now, after this past season's regression, I am still hoping they move on from Sam.  But if they don't, I sure hope it works out.  If he is a Jet next year, I would love to be wrong about Darnold.

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13 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I have no idea.  But as smart as you are my friend, I have to go with JD, Saleh and LaFleur regarding their judgement here.  Whether they go with Darnold or Wilson or someone else, I'll back it.

However, when I need legal advice, I know who to call. :D

 

Absolutely.  No offense to anyone on here but I trust those guys  a hell of a lot more than anyone on here if they choose to “ fix” Sam.  Personally I am still believer in Sam and felt he was dealt a horrible hand but at the same time I recognize he had a really rough year.  If Douglas chooses to go in another direction I’m on board with that too.  Either way I think we are in a really good position going forward 

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22 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

If we can somehow gamble with a trade down + keeping Sam....AND it works out...then we can be set up for a serious run.

And if Darnold continues doing what he's been doing for 3 years, then what?  Yeah I know just go get a franchise QB while picking #12 in the draft

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Please see Baker Mayfield vs Jets when his team was decimated for reference as to what Sam has had to play with here. I want to move on as well from him but let’s not pretend for a minute that players like Josh Allen or Mayfield would be much better had they landed here under these circumstances.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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55 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Saleh is so fiery.  Darnold is very flat.  Saleh seems to enjoy what he does.  Darnold doesn't.

Either Saleh's energy will be a positive infuence on Darnold, or it might not be a good match if Darnold maintains his current dimeanor.

Not an excuse for Darnold regressing but it had to be tough looking anything other than flat with Gase/Loggains and Bowles bringing the “energy”....I still think Jeremy Bates actually got somewhere with Sam(as aQB coach, less so as overall OC)..Bates had a little more energy so maybe there’s something in that....I still think his issues are more than just motivation and demeanour but it clearly didn’t help 

 

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Things that aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive:

The Jets don’t really like the quarterbacks who will be available at 2.

Sam Darnold’s contract status and development thus far don’t really make it feasible that he’s the long term starter.

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5 minutes ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

Please see Baker Mayfield vs Jets when his team was decimated for reference as to what Sam has had to play with here. I want to move on as well from him but let’s not pretend for a minute that players like Josh Allen or Mayfield would be much better had they landed here under these circumstances.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So what’s the response when someone mentions the Joe Flacco elephant in the room? 

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12 minutes ago, flgreen said:

And if Darnold continues doing what he's been doing for 3 years, then what?  Yeah I know just go get a franchise QB while picking #12 in the draft

That’s the gamble. I’m all in on the Zach Wilson bandwagon, but hypothetically if that gamble worked it would be huge. 

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I really can’t get on board with bringing Sam back.  Saleh and JD are now connected contract wise - Sam isn’t on the same timeline.  Time to cut the losses with him and bring in another QB that they like, can develop and have on their timeline.

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I know Darnold did not perform well these past 3 years. Some times he showed it, but more than not he didn't. The one thing I keep going back to however is how many of you were on board and were thrilled that he fell to us. He might have had some issues at USC that we knew about, but looked somewhat fixed his first year here under Bates. While not being an entirely light the team on fire guy, he did prove that he had something at USC. I'm not saying he can be fixed in a week, but if they decide to stick with him, then he has to be in contact with the OC and given things to work on in the offseason. I truly believe even though he liked GASE, that GASE couldn't coach up anyone. He's proved it with every QB he's had with the exception of Manning, which I don't believe he coached at all.

I hate the thought of picking a QB at 2 because I don't think there are any this year that deserve it, and that goes for TL as well. TL, JF, Mac Jones, all had great teams around them and it's hard to judge them when most of the time they sit back and have no pressure in their face. You see what happened to TL when OSU was all up in his grill. The prudent move is to trade down and grab a Center, and OG in the first 2 rounds. Until we fix the OL, it will be hard to judge any QB.

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1 hour ago, ChuckkieB said:

Yep....the Jets have leaked their intentions as to their QB situation, thereby destroying any leverage they might have with the #2 pick, to all of these "insiders" less than a day after hiring their new HC.  C'mon people.

They don’t need that leverage when teams like the 49ers, lions, WFT, and etc need QB’s. They have all the leverage they need.

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59 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No system or coach can help a QB who misses open receivers, is a slow processor, is a bit weak-minded, and is injury prone.  

Regardless of who we were going to hire at HC, Darnold was never going to be the answer.  And I'll question Saleh's judgment if he doesn't see that very quickly.  Darnold already contributed to getting some people fired here.  How many more people want to join that list?

Sorry bub you were wrong.. again..

Get behind Sam because hes getting a chance with a real coach and better players.

As I've been trying to tell you for 3 months.

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5 minutes ago, heymangold said:

I really can’t get on board with bringing Sam back.  Saleh and JD are now connected contract wise - Sam isn’t on the same timeline.  Time to cut the losses with him and bring in another QB that they like, can develop and have on their timeline.

Why cut bait when you have control for at least 2 more seasons? It’s not like gase has had great qb production / offensive success outside of his Peyton Manning seasons. It’s known around the league that gase and his offense doesn’t work in the NFL. Sam has the tools, just needs to be in position to succeed. Not sure if he ever will be but the Jets have an amazing opportunity to land an absurd haul for the number 2 pick. If Sam sucks, this Jets team will have all the amo they need to go and get their qb of the future in 2022. If Sam turns it around, we have amo to retool this franchise. I think it’s a win / win keeping Sam and trading that pick. 

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