Cimini on Status of Sam Darnold

[Pac 33,588]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Sam Darnold will be traded and the Jets are taking a QB at 2.

You're probably the one I look most forward to hearing from when it finally sinks into your dome that Darnold is staying...

Although I will give you props for Gase.  You called that out right when he was a rumored candidate and unrelentingly bashed the move for the last 2 years.  You called that one...  this one?  not so much.

[flgreen 28,682]

27 minutes ago, Rob Moore said:

Honestly what’s depressing is that in the midst of a new coach hire and hopefully a new hopeful direction for this franchise, we have a number of posters who just cannot help but trash our QB as soon as he’s mentioned (or even when he’s not).  
I don’t mean to single you out flgreen, bc most of your posts I enjoy.  But there’s a contingent of posters that are taking the darnold hate to new levels and the constant derailing of every thread into darnold hate is getting old fast.

I never understood the "suck for Sam" thing that sweep the board that draft.  At the time I had Darnold as the #3 QB in the draft.   With that said, I never hated the kid.  He seems to be a very nice person.  His personality some what won me over, and I was really rooting for him to succeed.  As a mater of fact I have several posts from before the season started thinking/hoping  this would be the year he took a step forward.  He didn't

Yes, I know the Jets sucked this year.  It is very difficult for a QB to succeed when the team sucks.  I get it.  But he wasn't so much a victim of the suckage, as he was a major contributor to it. The kid just seems to have horrible field vision.  I'm not sure that is fixable.  Go look at some of the overhead tape where you can see the whole field.  I can't count the times there has been a WR with a step on a CB, or wide open, and Sam doesn't see him, holds the ball to long, then throws it into coverage.  It's madding.  lol

If this was a year that the Jets were picking in the middle of the draft, I'd probably be all right with letting Sam play out the last year of his rookie contract.  That's not the situation.

IMO there might be 3 QB's at 2 who are a big upstep from Darnold .  Jets need to get one.  They may not be in that good of a situation again for a very long time.   They will be an improved team next year with, or without Darnold.     IMO Darnold is going to have a Sanchez like career.  Be good enough to hang around the league for 10 or so years, but never be the guy.

Jets have a rare opportunity to get a good QB to build around, do it.

[Adoni Beast 4,114]

27 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don’t know why this is so hard for fans to understand. The Jets are open minded about how to approach the QB position. The front office and coaching staff are aligned in thinking that Sam Darnold is a legitimate QB who has the potential to be an upper enchelon quarterback. They feel the system is a terrific fit for him, and they love his upside. At the same time, they acknowledge they’re in position to take the 2nd best QB in the draft and have him under contract cheaply for 4 years. 

What they will decide is what is better for the TEAM: QB Darnold + value of #2 (trade) OR QB #2 + value of Darnold (trade). 

I’d say there’s a 75% chance they determine bringing Darnold back and trading the pick will be the best way to build the team for a variety of reasons I’ve outlined the past month—some having to do with Darnold but most not.

What people also don’t realize is that this is going to be largely dependent on what teams are offering for the 2nd pick and what they’re offering for Darnold. 
 

If the team thinks grades out Darnold/Wilson/Fields around the same long term projection with this new scheme and they’re being offered a haul for the #2 pick, how do you say no?

If Wilson or Fields grade out better than Sam, you draft one. 
 

If someone is offering a late 1st or a high 2nd for Sam (doubtful but you never know), and you have all 3 QB’s close in projection, you trade Sam. 
 

Too many variables. Its not black and white. 

[Wonderboy 4,568]

30 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don’t know why this is so hard for fans to understand. The Jets are open minded about how to approach the QB position. The front office and coaching staff are aligned in thinking that Sam Darnold is a legitimate QB who has the potential to be an upper enchelon quarterback. They feel the system is a terrific fit for him, and they love his upside. At the same time, they acknowledge they’re in position to take the 2nd best QB in the draft and have him under contract cheaply for 4 years. 

What they will decide is what is better for the TEAM: QB Darnold + value of #2 (trade) OR QB #2 + value of Darnold (trade). 

I’d say there’s a 75% chance they determine bringing Darnold back and trading the pick will be the best way to build the team for a variety of reasons I’ve outlined the past month—some having to do with Darnold but most not.

The Jets are open minded about how to approach the QB position. The front office and coaching staff are aligned in thinking that Sam Darnold is a legitimate QB who has the potential to be an upper enchelon quarterback
Stopped reading after this. 

[Jet Nut 16,211]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

The more I'm hearing this from different sources,  the more legit it sounds. Not everyone would be reporting this if there wasn't a well placed source.

It was reported by Schefter before Saleh was hired.  

He repeated that it would be Darnold the night Saleh was hired.

Somehow I dont believe that a source reported that Saleh and JD wanted to keep Sam an hour or so after Saleh was hired.

I'd bet the house that is a well played guess.  Sam has played in a form of this offense in his rookie year and showed a lot of promise and it would be beneficial to the Jets to use every draft asset on players not another QB.

Funny to @joewilly12s post.  Cimini on the year ending SNY Jet Nation show said that Sam was gone, wouldnt be back and would be traded.  Now his ESPN buddy says something else and Cimini jumps on board.

[Beerfish 33,618]

IF you are going to keep darnold and not draft a QB trade down at all costs even if we do not get 'blow your socks off value'

[y2k8 1,580]

13 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Jets have a rare opportunity to get a good QB to build around, do it.

You see, this is the crux of the fundamental board disagreement.

It's not about Sam Lovers and Sam Haters, it's about what to do with the #2 pick and how it can best be used to build a sustainable winning franchise.

And it seems consensus is building around the idea that we can draft a good QB either later or next year - that there is nothing special about this years' class (not named Lawrence) that won't be available next year.

That's it. That's the argument.

Is this a rare opportunity to draft THE quarterback?

I say no. 

[y2k8 1,580]

7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 

Funny to @joewilly12s post.  Cimini on the year ending SNY Jet Nation show said that Sam was gone, wouldnt be back and would be traded.  Now his ESPN buddy says something else and Cimini jumps on board.

Yeah, Cimini can best be described as an NFL Outsider at this point. JetNation has way better sources than Richie

[Matt39 42,703]

“Mark Sanchez can be an upper ecehelon quarterback”

Even Bears fans aren’t this delusional with Trubisky. 

[FlightBoyz 1,190]

Gonna be so many Darnold hypotheticals till draft day. It's going to drive everyone crazy.

[choon328 5,217]

Any other available options... Hmmm

[Matt39 42,703]

10 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

The Jets are open minded about how to approach the QB position. The front office and coaching staff are aligned in thinking that Sam Darnold is a legitimate QB who has the potential to be an upper enchelon quarterback
Stopped reading after this. 

Either the Jets PR machine is in all out mode or this fanbase doesn’t watch other football teams. 

[Pac 33,588]

1 minute ago, y2k8 said:

that there is nothing special about this years class (not named Lawrence) that won't be available next year.

It's really this simple.

I don't think I saw anyone saying we should keep Darnold when TL was in play.  Once that dream was dashed then it became a completely different decision.

Trading down, giving Darnold a final chance in an offense tailor-made for him, and accumulating multiple premium picks gives you ample ammunition to attack the position in next years draft if it came to that.

Can you imagine if Darnold turns it around and we have 3 first round picks next year?! 

[Jets723 4,501]

15 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

You see, this is the crux of the fundamental board disagreement.

It's not about Sam Lovers and Sam Haters, it's about what to do with the #2 pick and how it can best be used to build a sustainable winning franchise.

And it seems consensus is building around the idea that we can draft a good QB either later or next year - that there is nothing special about this years class (not named Lawrence) that won't be available next year.

That's it. That's the argument. Is this a rare opportunity to draft THE quarterback?

I say no. 

Absolutely.  For me Trevor Lawrence was the main QB to take in the top 2. Fields and Wilson for me are not as much sure things. You shouldn’t force a pick either.  Plus more importantly we are in a rare position to trade down and acquire even more assets that will build this team significantly better.  Unless the offers are underwhelming that’s a hard opportunity to pass up 

[choon328 5,217]

I will just say this. You don't get the 2nd pick in the draft very often so if you don't have a viable franchise QB then you take one at #2. It's a philosophy many teams use. 

[y2k8 1,580]

2 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Any other available options... Hmmm

Completely consistent with everything being discussed. It's also the correct approach to take. 

Let Saleh get in the building and begin the due diligence. Let JD do his job. Long way to go here. Nothing has been decided.

[RutgersJetFan 93,429]

If the Jets stick with Darnold that is a surefire sign that nothing has changed in this ******* organization. 

[kevinc855 2,783]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Joe Douglas: The Plan Is for Jamal Adams to Be a Jet for Life

Feb 25, 2020 at 02:45 PM

Jamal got into twitter fueds and dumped on the team in public

Sam will not do that

bad comparision 

[y2k8 1,580]

3 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I will just say this. You don't get the 2nd pick in the draft very often so if you don't have a viable franchise QB then you take one at #2. It's a philosophy many teams use. 

True. People like Goff and Wentz and Mariota and Winston were all picked top 2 recently. 

[Pac 33,588]

1 minute ago, choon328 said:

I will just say this. You don't get the 2nd pick in the draft very often so if you don't have a viable franchise QB then you take one at #2. It's a philosophy many teams use. 

That's how we got Darnold lol.

A while back I looked at top 3 QB picks the last 30 years or so and there were far, FAR, more busts than hits.

It's an interesting decision but I think the most logical choice is giving it one more year with Sammy.  If he winds up sucking like many of you think he will, then we potentially have 3 first round picks next year with 2 of them likely being in the top 15 (assuming we don't trade down too far this year).

[Beerfish 33,618]

6 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I will just say this. You don't get the 2nd pick in the draft very often so if you don't have a viable franchise QB then you take one at #2. It's a philosophy many teams use. 

Only if there is a worthy Qb there.

Forcing the value of QBs up higher  because of need and draft position is faulty.

If they think Fields or Wilson are really great prospects you go ahead and take them,  If not you trade down build the team an look next year and the year after.

 

[choon328 5,217]

2 minutes ago, Pac said:

It's really this simple.

I don't think I saw anyone saying we should keep Darnold when TL was in play.  Once that dream was dashed then it became a completely different decision.

Trading down, giving Darnold a final chance in an offense tailor-made for him, and accumulating multiple premium picks gives you ample ammunition to attack the position in next years draft if it came to that.

Can you imagine if Darnold turns it around and we have 3 first round picks next year?! 

Can you imagine if we waste another year on Darnold only to finish 6-10. Then have to use all 3 1st round picks plus more to move up into position to draft a QB. Which most likely won't be the top QB bc there will be other teams looking for a QB as well.  You guys act like we can just press a button like in Madden and make a trade up. What if the top 3 teams in the draft need QBs next year? Then what? Plus, there is no Trevor Lawrence next year. The QBs next year are all Wilson/Fields type prospects. Just take the 1 you like this year and take the risk out of the whole situation.  That's my opinion anyway. 

[Jets723 4,501]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Only if there is a worthy Qb there.

Forcing the value of QBs up higher  because of need and draft position is faulty.

If they think Fields or Wilson are really great prospects you go ahead and take them,  If not you trade down build the team an look next year and the year after.

 

This 

[Rob Moore 145]

26 minutes ago, flgreen said:

I never understood the "suck for Sam" thing that sweep the board that draft.  At the time I had Darnold as the #3 QB in the draft.   With that said, I never hated the kid.  He seems to be a very nice person.  His personality some what won me over, and I was really rooting for him to succeed.  As a mater of fact I have several posts from before the season started thinking/hoping  this would be the year he took a step forward.  He didn't

Yes, I know the Jets sucked this year.  It is very difficult for a QB to succeed when the team sucks.  I get it.  But he wasn't so much a victim of the suckage, as he was a major contributor to it. The kid just seems to have horrible field vision.  I'm not sure that is fixable.  Go look at some of the overhead tape where you can see the whole field.  I can't count the times there has been a WR with a step on a CB, or wide open, and Sam doesn't see him, holds the ball to long, then throws it into coverage.  It's madding.  lol

If this was a year that the Jets were picking in the middle of the draft, I'd probably be all right with letting Sam play out the last year of his rookie contract.  That's not the situation.

IMO there might be 3 QB's at 2 who are a big upstep from Darnold .  Jets need to get one.  They may not be in that good of a situation again for a very long time.   They will be an improved team next year with, or without Darnold.     IMO Darnold is going to have a Sanchez like career.  Be good enough to hang around the league for 10 or so years, but never be the guy.

Jets have a rare opportunity to get a good QB to build around, do it.

I absolutely 1000% understand your point of view on this, and again I wasn’t singling you out bc your posts are usually well thought out and enjoyable, as is this one so I thank you for that.  It’s many of the others that have become broken records. 
Bottom line is we all want what’s best for the team.  Personally I don’t want to take a QB at 2, but if we do I’ll be his biggest fan and wish Sam good luck elsewhere. 

[T0mShane 139,944]

Disgusted that the Jets brass refuses to publicly refer to Sam Darnold as “Sam E. Trash.” Read the room jets brass!!!!!!!!!!

[Untouchable 14,648]

42 minutes ago, Warfish said:

There WILL be a trade partner because someone will fall in love with 1. Fields, 2. Wilson or 3. Sewell.

It isn't the 8th pick this time, it's the 2nd.  2nd is alot easier to trade than where we've been in the past.

Worst case we get an all-world O-lineman prospect to play opposite Becton (regardless of who plays which side, not the big stinky issue detractors like to think it is) OR a world-class WR prospect to pair with Mims and Crowder and whomever else we draft/sign.  

Oh no, the humanity.

LOL.

For once, draft wise, WE'RE sitting in the catbird seat.

This

Hell, the Jets might even be able to entice a team not looking for a QB like the Bengals to move up for Sewell.

That would be just about perfect for me. The Jets drop back 3 spots, pick up an additional 2nd this year and an extra 1st next year and draft a DeVonta Smith or Ja’Marr Chase at #5.

Then you still have 3 additional picks in the Top 40 alone.

And you have 3 1st rounders in your back pocket next year so if Darnold falls flat on his face, you have the ammo to make a move for someone like Howell if need be.

[joewilly12 24,430]

5 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Jamal got into twitter fueds and dumped on the team in public

Sam will not do that

bad comparision 

Sam can't do that bad QB play and a bad attitude will only get him out of the NFL. 

[Wonderboy 4,568]

4 minutes ago, Pac said:

It's really this simple.

I don't think I saw anyone saying we should keep Darnold when TL was in play.  Once that dream was dashed then it became a completely different decision.

Trading down, giving Darnold a final chance in an offense tailor-made for him, and accumulating multiple premium picks gives you ample ammunition to attack the position in next years draft if it came to that.

Can you imagine if Darnold turns it around and we have 3 first round picks next year?! 

Darnold ain’t turning nothing around unless he binges it on tv. It would be in his best interest to watch every episode from April ‘57 to present.

 

[varjet 3,844]

The Johnsons have never been believers in sunk cost.  They will be reluctant to write off the Darnold investment.  Unfortunately, the Johnsons hired Gase, who was a terrible match for Darnold.  

I think when you look at the last 5 years of Darnold and compare to Wilson, Fields and Lance, the comparison is not definitive.  You can argue that Darnold should get a chance in this system.  But it is all about the contract. 

Trubisky, for his pros and cons, will sign a contract this season.  That is not a bad high end for Darnold.  Although the Jets have a cheap year of Darnold next year guaranteed (its cash of about $4.6mm, not his $9.7mm cap value (he costs cap space to trade), if the Jets believe there is hope for Darnold, I would reboot his contract and sign him for an extension that is between his rookie contract and next contract.  Maybe two years, $30mm, guaranteed.  Let him prove himself and start over, leaving the Jets the franchise tag in 2023.   But...that is actually almost the exact same money as next year plus the 5th year option...which is why the Jets will likely do that. 

[joewilly12 24,430]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Disgusted that the Jets brass refuses to publicly refer to Sam Darnold as “Sam E. Trash.” Read the room jets brass!!!!!!!!!!

Adam Is Trash Gase managed to get ousted here. 

Sorry for your loss. 

NOT 

[prime21 5,637]

Tell the candidates that we know we don’t want that we like Sam. They will get the word out and offers will come flying in for #2.
WINNING


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jets723 4,501]

3 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

This

Hell, the Jets might even be able to entice a team not looking for a QB like the Bengals to move up for Sewell.

That would be just about perfect for me. The Jets drop back 3 spots, pick up an additional 2nd this year and an extra 1st next year and draft a DeVonta Smith or Ja’Marr Chase at #5.

Then you still have 3 additional picks in the Top 40 alone.

And you have 3 1st rounders in your back pocket next year so if Darnold falls flat on his face, you have the ammo to make a move for someone like Howell if need be.

Absolutely.  Trading down makes sense given all the holes of the roster

[choon328 5,217]

15 minutes ago, Pac said:

That's how we got Darnold lol.

A while back I looked at top 3 QB picks the last 30 years or so and there were far, FAR, more busts than hits.

It's an interesting decision but I think the most logical choice is giving it one more year with Sammy.  If he winds up sucking like many of you think he will, then we potentially have 3 first round picks next year with 2 of them likely being in the top 15 (assuming we don't trade down too far this year).

It's not as easy with Darnold as you're suggesting. He comes with a $25 million question for 2022. If they don't pick up the option and he plays like a top 20 QB now you either have to give an extension he's not worth or a franchise tag he's not worth or let him go and now mortgage multiple draft picks to move up to the same position you were already in this year. And there is no guarantee you'll be able to even do that. 

[genot 2,093]

33 minutes ago, Pac said:

You're probably the one I look most forward to hearing from when it finally sinks into your dome that Darnold is staying...

Although I will give you props for Gase.  You called that out right when he was a rumored candidate and unrelentingly bashed the move for the last 2 years.  You called that one...  this one?  not so much.

Some people here are delusional. Good people and all. But still. Lol. I wish they would face reality and hope that the people closest to these issues are right, and just concern themselves with are other personal issues.

[Greensleeves 1,053]

44 minutes ago, Pac said:

You're probably the one I look most forward to hearing from when it finally sinks into your dome that Darnold is staying...

Although I will give you props for Gase.  You called that out right when he was a rumored candidate and unrelentingly bashed the move for the last 2 years.  You called that one...  this one?  not so much.

I'm good either way, but it works both ways. You're going out on a limb just as much as Fidelio - we'll be listening to your take if that happens too. I think it's too early to call. As soon as Saleh was hired I saw several people say that Wilson is perfect for the offense they will be implementing. Not sure who to believe yet. The only thing that would piss me off is if we stay at 2 and take the LT with our first pick just like we did last year. Trade back a few spots and pick Chase or Smith if you don't grab Wilson at 2 and with the picks you acquire grab a PR, center, corner and possibly and elite RB. If you keep Sam you have to give him an elite weapon - or go in another direction.