This should be it with the #2 pick: Watson, Sewell or trading down

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Jets can offer both Seattle picks plus Sam.  Who is outbidding that?

 

NE? - not Belichick’s style

MIA?- they just tanked for Tua 

Panthers?- don’t have the extra draft capital we have

 

HOU will probably need to get a QB they believe in as part of the deal or a pick that is likely to put them in the running for one of the top QBs available this draft or next. Neither of SEA's picks are likely to fit the bill.

[Bronx]

6 minutes ago, JTJet said:

People are clamoring for a QB that has thrust his team negatively into the spotlight in a massive way very similar to Jamal (again justified or not justified). 

You didn't put Adams overrated ass and compared it to Watson's legit talent...no you didn't!

[More Cowbell]

9 minutes ago, jgb said:

Thanks, I didn't understand what you mean about Gase making Bowles look good. Still don't but that's OK.

I do find the no camp argument rather interesting considering rookie QBs like Burrow and Herbert have never been through an NFL camp crushed Darnold's "good" rookie year into particulate matter. Allen also had a historical turnaround without a camp. If a QB going into his third year needs a camp when no one else has one to not be the worst QB in the league, you don't have a FQB.

I'm not arguing that Darnold is good, he clearly isn't but none of this helped and those teams you jist talked about didn't  have Adam Gase as the HC. That was a massive handicap. It's  like now that he is gone it was no big deal he was ever here. 

Oh, and sorry, I didn't know there was a Todd Bowles fan club here. I guess you thought Bowles looked good all along or that Gase was not demonstrably worse.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

I'm not arguing that Darnold is good, he clearly isn't but none of this helped and those teams you jist talked about didn't  have Adam Gase as the HC. That was a massive handicap. It's  like now that he is gone it was no big deal he was ever here. 

[Philc1]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

HOU will probably need to get a QB they believe in as part of the deal or a pick that is likely to put them in the running for one of the top QBs available this draft or next. Neither of SEA's picks are likely to fit the bill.

Lance, Trask, Jones and maybe even Wilson may all be there at 23 in addition to getting Darnold

[JTJet]

6 minutes ago, Bronx said:

You didn't put Adams overrated ass and compared it to Watson's legit talent...no you didn't!

If JD is who we all hope he is, and says he is, he would not make the trade. 

He would use our capital to build through the draft. 

[Bronx]

Just now, JTJet said:

If JD is who we all hope he is, and says he is, he would not make the trade. 

He would use our capital to build through the draft. 

Well my friend, I guess we could wait another 3 years to taste the playoffs or draft another QB.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Lance, Trask, Jones and maybe even Wilson may all be there at 23 in addition to getting Darnold

What do you think the Jets could back for Darnold is a straight draft-pick trade?

[More Cowbell]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Cute. Try following along.

You said Sam went through two HC's and 3 OC's like they actually did things that helped him develop. I pointed out that they did nothing to help him develop along with a bunch of other things that didn't  help him develop. That fact that Darnold has not shown he is very good also doesn't help but never mind this was just compounded by the CS and roster.

I have never seen a QB that was screwed over by a team the way the Jets screwed over Sam. 

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, 68JET11 said:

I get that, and nothing the last 50 years can change the fact that we have a bad team and we still need a lot of pieces, and giving away our draft capitol just to get the QB I don't think is the best move. I'm not a GM so I'm not saying my way is the right way.

JUST TO GET A QB? 
OMG! You don’t give away shots in the dark to JUST GET A QB! 
Are you watching the playoffs? 
FINAL 4 

Brady-Rogers-Mahomes-Allen (having a breakout season!)

The Bucs haven’t been in the playoffs for years! Brady leads them to the NFCCG! 

The Bills hadn’t won a playoff game since Jim freaking Kelly! 25 years ago! 

JUST TO GET A QB? 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Cute. Try following along.

You said Sam went through two HC's and 3 OC's like they actually did things that helped him develop. I pointed out that they did nothing to help him develop along with a bunch of other things that didn't  help him develop. That fact that Darnold has not shown he is very good also doesn't help but never mind this was just compounded by the CS and roster.

I have never seen a QB that was screwed over by a team the way the Jets screwed over Sam. 

No I'm saying if you fail under three systems, the solution probably starts in the mirror.

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, Jetster said:

JUST TO GET A QB? 
OMG! You don’t give away shots in the dark to JUST GET A QB! 
Are you watching the playoffs? 
FINAL 4 

Brady-Rogers-Mahomes-Allen (having a breakout season!)

The Bucs haven’t been in the playoffs for years! Brady leads them to the AFCCG! 

The Bills hadn’t won a playoff game since Jim freaking Kelly! 25 years ago! 

JUST TO GET A QB? 

5 of the 6 teams with the highest-paid QBs made the playoffs in 2020. 6 of 6 in the last 2 years.

19 of the last 20 SB champ QBs had at least one Pro Bowl under their belts. The one exception just outplayed Sam this year in a situation in which some seem to insinuate even Watson would be the worst-rated QB in the league.

16 of the last 20 SB champ QBs are in the HOF or well on their way.

But QBs don't matter and giving one a big contract is the "wrong way to build a team."

[varjet]

I think the Jets’ 2021 number 2 pick, plus Darnold, plus MAYBE the Seahawks’ first round in 2022 is a very fair deal for Watson.  

The only reason I would throw in the second 1st round pick is because Watson’s contract is not terrible.

When you think about the 49ers, they traded a second round for Garropolo, and then signed him to a record contract which is actually currently a decent deal.  The 49ers have been able to build a whole team without paying their QB too, too much money.  

The Texans should be better off keeping Watson, but their cap is busted.  It makes more sense for them to try their luck with Fields and 4 less expensive years.  

But this only works if Watson fits in the LeFleur system.  

[Jetster]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

5 of the 6 teams with the highest-paid QBs made the playoffs in 2020. 6 of 6 in the last 2 years.

19 of 20 of the last SB champ QBs had at least one Pro Bowl under their belts. The one exception just outplayed Sam this year in a situation "no one could succeed in."

16 of the last 20 SB champ QBs are in the HOF or well on their way.

But QBs don't matter and giving one a big contract is the "wrong way to build a team."

I feel like I’m in the twilight zone! Now I have no idea what’s gonna happen with Watson & Houston but never have the stars been aligned so perfectly with us having multiple #1 draft picks the next 2 years, plus a QB that would probably fetch a second round pick if Texans just wanted picks & not Darnold to throw to the wolves next year. 
If ever the moves JD made with Adams have aligned with the stars of Deshaun Watson maybe being available would be the lucky rabbits foot Jet fans have been waiting for for 52 years! But not surprisingly we have a contingency of fans saying they don’t want to give up draft capital for a top 5 QB but they’ve been on here contributing to threads based on taking an unknown quantity like trading back for Wilson, or taking guy that falls to #23? 
You can’t make this sh*t up! 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I feel like I’m in the twilight zone! Now I have no idea what’s gonna happen with Watson & Houston but never have the stars been aligned so perfectly with us having multiple #1 draft picks the next 2 years, plus a QB that would probably fetch a second round pick if Texans just wanted picks & not Darnold to throw to the wolves next year. 
If ever the moves JD made with Adams have aligned with the stars of Deshaun Watson maybe being available would be the lucky rabbits foot Jet fans have been waiting for for 52 years! But not surprisingly we have a contingency of fans saying they don’t want to give up draft capital for a top 5 QB but they’ve been on here contributing to threads based on taking an unknown quantity like trading back for Wilson, or taking guy that falls to #23? 
You can’t make this sh*t up! 

I think it's just mental gymnastics to convince themselves they are right about Sam becoming a FQB. If Watson is brought in, the dream dies.

If Darnold was a Dolphin and they had the picks we have, those that defend Darnold now would be pooping in a pot worried that the Fins were likely to upgrade their joke of a QB for an elite one.

[Bronx]

2 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I feel like I’m in the twilight zone! Now I have no idea what’s gonna happen with Watson & Houston but never have the stars been aligned so perfectly with us having multiple #1 draft picks the next 2 years, plus a QB that would probably fetch a second round pick if Texans just wanted picks & not Darnold to throw to the wolves next year. 
If ever the moves JD made with Adams have aligned with the stars of Deshaun Watson maybe being available would be the lucky rabbits foot Jet fans have been waiting for for 52 years! But not surprisingly we have a contingency of fans saying they don’t want to give up draft capital for a top 5 QB but they’ve been on here contributing to threads based on taking an unknown quantity like trading back for Wilson, or taking guy that falls to #23? 
You can’t make this sh*t up! 

I think many of the fans are still stuck on Lawrence and are living a fantasy with these other question marks.

[prime21]

Make the call. Get the price for having a trade talk and come back with a much lower offer. Unless a team wants to throw everything at the Texans, they have no leverage plus a huge PR nightmare as each day grows.



Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

[Bruce Harper]

I had grown attached to the idea of having four first rounders over then next two years.  If we could get him for the Seattle picks + Darnold (and maybe a third?) I guess you would have to do it.  But I am torn because I am really attached to the idea of filling out the roster with all these high picks.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Bronx said:

I think many of the fans are still stuck on Lawrence and are living a fantasy with these other question marks.

They're right about that though. Every QB in the draft is a question mark (yes, even Lawrence). The NFL has yet to crack the code on how to get into a prospects head and determine if he has what it takes upstairs to be a FQB.

Watson, though, is not a question mark. We've seen him perform at an elite level in all sorts of situations.

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, Bronx said:

Let's just simplify things people. We know that Justin Fields (doesn't fit the profile) and Zach Wilson (fits the WCO but with health and size issues) are question marks. Darnold's tenure has being filled with poor supporting cast, injuries and the worst coaching in the league.

With so many unknowns, the only two players I would spend the #2 pick are on Watson or Sewell. We either get an elite QB or anchor the line and support for Darnold. 

There should not really be another plan with the #2 besides trading down. Trading down could fill many holes. Gambling on rookie QBs with question marks is risky and would not guarantee a success for at least 3 years. Darnold has experience and could shine under the WCO with better weapons. Anchoring the OL with Sewell and Becton would be scary for any DC. However, having an elite QB with some decent support would be my preferred option. Look at Brady, Brees, Maholmes and Rodgers. These guys are always in contention. It's time to spend on the highest priority.

WRONG.

[Jetster]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

I think it's just mental gymnastics to convince themselves they are right about Sam becoming a FQB. If Watson is brought in, the dream dies.

If Darnold was a Dolphin and they had the picks we had, we'd be pooping in a pot that they were likely to upgrade their joke of a QB for an elite one.

I’m very nervous about Miami getting Watson. 
THAT is worse case scenario here for the Jets! 
Because if that happens & we keep Darnold I’m seeing 3rd place finishes for a few more years unless we strike gold with Fields, Wilson, or someone in 2022. 
Either way, we won’t be even competing until 2023/2024. I’m getting old fast! 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, prime21 said:

Make the call. Get the price for having a trade talk and come back with a much lower offer. Unless a team wants to throw everything at the Texans, they have no leverage plus a huge PR nightmare as each day grows.



Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

They have a valuable, sought-after asset under long-term contract. Maybe the situation reduces their leverage somewhat -- but it doesn't reduce it to anywhere close to zero.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I’m very nervous about Miami getting Watson. 
THAT is worse case scenario here for the Jets! 
Because if that happens & we keep Darnold I’m seeing 3rd place finishes for a few more years unless we strike gold with Fields, Wilson, or someone in 2022. 
Either way, we won’t be even competing until 2023/2024. I’m getting old fast! 

Perfect is the enemy of the good. Yes, in a perfect world Sam would turn it around and justify the sunk cost of acquiring him or we will hit a grand slam in the draft with a QB and have him on a cheap rookie deal. But a GM needs to weigh probabilities and net present value of each move. There is a reason if Watson becomes available it is an unprecedented situation. Teams do not let FQBs go in their prime.

[More Cowbell]

25 minutes ago, jgb said:

No I'm saying if you fail under three systems, the solution probably starts in the mirror.

And if the systems were installed by totally  unqualified people. People who were arguably  the worst there was at their positions, we shouldn't  care, is that what you are saying?

[Bronx]

4 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

WRONG.

I'm sure you feel more comfortable and certain going into the 21' season with Wilson, Fields or even Darnold over Watson. 

[jgb]

Just now, More Cowbell said:

And if the systems were installed by totally  unqualified people. People who were arguably  the worst there was at their positions, we shouldn't  care, is that what you are saying?

Compare Tannehill stats under Gase. QBs that have FQB potential are at least able to give a taste of what can happen in a better situation.

[Sonny Werblin]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Ok, this is getting to be too much. Do you honestly believe Watson is going to be traded? Yes, there have been trades of talented QB's in the past but that was when the other team was presented with another option at the position.  Can someone tell me what option the Texans have other than keeping Watson? So Watson is angry, Shefter thinks he has taken his last snap. He is angry about the Hopkins trade which btw did not exactly put Arizona over the top and he is angry about that he was not consulted on the GM hiring. He is a 25 year diva QB. This is what we want? We want him to bring that act here along with his 150 million contract as well as possibly  all of our high draft picks for the next year or so? Any negotiation  starts with the #2 pick and goes up from there. I honestly would rather take Fields if we have to use the second pick on a QB but I do not believe the Texans are going to trade Watson just because he is pissed off. He has been paid very well to play QB on that team. If I was the owner, I would be thinking the same thing. Take your money and stay in your lane. 

 

If I'm the Texans, I tell Watson that I'd be willing to trade him to Jacksonville for a package involving the the #1 overall pick and other draft choices because that is how highly I think of him. This is the only deal that would make sense for the Texans. It jumpstarts a quick re-tool by replacing a star QB with the best QB prospect in a number of years and provides cap relief. It should be the ONLY deal the Texans should even consider. 

[More Cowbell]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Compare Tannehill stats under Gase. QBs that have FQB potential are at least able to give a taste of what can happen in a better situation.

Look at the teams that Tanny played on. Is there anyone Sam is throwing to as good as Landry?

[jgb]

13 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Look at the teams that Tanny played on. Is there anyone Sam is throwing to as good as Landry?

And the carousel of excuses continues to turn. Jets WRs were 4th in the league in average yards of separation in the first quarter of the season before Darnold got hurt. His production in those games? 198 yds/game. I'm sure you'll say that Gase instructed Darnold to ignore open receivers, though.

Darnold is holding back his weaponz, not the other way around.

[The Troll]

2 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

We are not a Deshaun Watson away from having an elite team... Enough said.

Yeah, what use do we have in a 25 year old franchise QB?

By the time we could build a team around him, he'd be like 27 or 28 and nearing retirement.

[Bronx]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

He’s not good enough to even come close to meriting some of the wildly crazy trade packages I’m seeing thrown out here

 

3 first round picks + more for a player with a $30 million cap hit next 4 years?  Our roster has holes everywhere and we will be in cap hell

 

Watson is a legit QB, he has to get paid. Dak Prescott will demand even more but without losing draft capital.

But Phil, if we draft a rookie, it would be another rebuild process. If I'm using your thought process correctly, your choice would be Darnold. 

I rather pay a hefty price and bring in an elite QB. We will smell the playoffs again and there is not even one single fan that would not appreciate that accomplishment.

[Bronx]

3 minutes ago, The Troll said:

Yeah, what use do we have in a 25 year old franchise QB?

By the time we could build a team around him, he'd be like 27 or 28 and nearing retirement.

We are talking about QBs, not running backs.

[Paradis]

Fk Watson and Fk these threads

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, The Troll said:

Yeah, what use do we have in a 25 year old franchise QB?

By the time we could build a team around him, he'd be like 27 or 28 and nearing retirement.

Their position is that Watson is better than Darnold (at least they concede that) but that the team doesn't have enough good players to invest in good players.

6 minutes ago, Bronx said:

Watson is a legit QB, he has to get paid. Dak Prescott will demand even more but without losing draft capital.

But Phil, if we draft a rookie, it would be another rebuild process. If I'm using your thought process correctly, your choice would be Darnold. 

I rather pay a hefty price and bring in an elite QB. We will smell the playoffs again and there is not even one single fan that would not appreciate that accomplishment.

If Darnold does what his most ardent defenders hope and explodes next year, how much do they think he'll want to get paid starting in 2022? "You know what guys, you believed in me when the chips were down so I only want $20M a year," said no FQB ever.

[Lurker89]

I don't want nice things...

 

But in all seriousness I don't care if we go for Watson. If we get  him cool but I definitely don't want to to hamstring building the rest if the team and end up right where the Texans are 3 years from now.