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This should be it with the #2 pick: Watson, Sewell or trading down


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15 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Mims starts as a 2 or 3 on many teams. Herndon despite his misuse and bad drops would probably start on a handful of teams . Better question how many teams in the NFL would Sam start on ? 

Mims starts because he is a rookie. Herndon would have been cut if we had any other option at TE.

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Trade Down .. take wilson at 4-5 Watson and his mega contract can go elsewhere thank you. Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

We are not a Deshaun Watson away from having an elite team... Enough said.

Let's just simplify things people. We know that Justin Fields (doesn't fit the profile) and Zach Wilson (fits the WCO but with health and size issues) are question marks. Darnold's tenure has being fi

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4 hours ago, Bronx said:

Let's just simplify things people. We know that Justin Fields (doesn't fit the profile) and Zach Wilson (fits the WCO but with health and size issues) are question marks. Darnold's tenure has being filled with poor supporting cast, injuries and the worst coaching in the league.

With so many unknowns, the only two players I would spend the #2 pick are on Watson or Sewell. We either get an elite QB or anchor the line and support for Darnold. 

There should not really be another plan with the #2 besides trading down. Trading down could fill many holes. Gambling on rookie QBs with question marks is risky and would not guarantee a success for at least 3 years. Darnold has experience and could shine under the WCO with better weapons. Anchoring the OL with Sewell and Becton would be scary for any DC. However, having an elite QB with some decent support would be my preferred option. Look at Brady, Brees, Maholmes and Rodgers. These guys are always in contention. It's time to spend on the highest priority.

 I would love to see the Jets trade out of the pick and grab Mac Jones in the second round I think he's the best WCO QB in this draft

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1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

Mims starts because he is a rookie. Herndon would have been cut if we had any other option at TE.

But I'm arguing both would start on other teams, the  Darnold Weaponz  defense is getting old. 

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13 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yes, when those "terrible" WRs were playing -- whom you blame for Darnold's struggles -- they managed the 4th best average WR separation in the league. Then you blamed drops -- when I pointed out Jets were better than average in that category and the Packers, Texans and Chiefs were all much worse, you "dropped" that one, too. Finally, when the stats disproved all of your points, you said stats don't matter -- the Siegfried line of all unsupportable positions.

If you'd make an argument and stick with it, this would be more productive for both of us lol.

Right, let's start the conversation with you quoting a stat from where Hogan and Barrios were the starters and then let's defend it by talking about when Mims, Crowder, and Perriman were the receivers. And I'm the one not sticking to a position. 

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1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

 I would love to see the Jets trade out of the pick and grab Mac Jones in the second round I think he's the best WCO QB in this draft

WCO as in Worldly College Offense 

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4 hours ago, Bronx said:

Zach Wilson (fits the WCO but with health and size issues) are question marks.

He hurt his shoulder in HS and hes 3+ inches taller that Baker and taller than others

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If you can get Watson, f*cking get him. He's a top 5 QB at worst.

We could very well trade Jamal plus a pick for him. That dang box safety trade gave us fantastic flexibility and capital to make a move like this.

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2 hours ago, JTJet said:

Exactly right. 

We have just been celebrating JD and the Jets finally doing something the right way and sensing a shift in organizational culture. Hoping that they have turned the tides to run like an elite level team. 

Now. 

People are clamoring for a QB that has thrust his team negatively into the spotlight in a massive way very similar to Jamal (again justified or not justified). 

The OLD Jets would trade for Watson. 

The NEW Jets should stay the course. 

If JD is satisfied this is really a one time thing AND you can get him at a reasonable price.

I would be willing to go a pick more that you - 2 1's over the next two years rather than one you're offering, but much more than that would simply make it too hard to compete.

He's really good though.

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1 minute ago, jgb said:

You argued Darnold's struggles are because Mims, Crowder and Perriman were out. During that time, the Jets averaged #4 in the league in average yards of separation by their WRs. The point is pretty self-explanatory.

I would think everyone should agree how bad the WRs were when they were out.  

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9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I would think everyone should agree how bad the WRs were when they were out.  

It can both be true that the WRs were bad and that Sam Darnold still sucks. In fact, the evidence indicates this is by far the most likely situation. Darnold has been remarkably consistent for three years -- with guys hurt, with guys playing, different WRs each year, different OCs, different HCs -- consistently bottom of the league.

I stick with my prediction that with NFL-average or better QB play, the Jets weaponz will suddenly not look like trash and that the Jets offense will rank higher than its defense next year (if we move on from Sam) even before I know who the next QB will be. It's almost certain he will be better.

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1 hour ago, varjet said:

I think the Jets’ 2021 number 2 pick, plus Darnold, plus MAYBE the Seahawks’ first round in 2022 is a very fair deal for Watson.  

The only reason I would throw in the second 1st round pick is because Watson’s contract is not terrible.

When you think about the 49ers, they traded a second round for Garropolo, and then signed him to a record contract which is actually currently a decent deal.  The 49ers have been able to build a whole team without paying their QB too, too much money.  

The Texans should be better off keeping Watson, but their cap is busted.  It makes more sense for them to try their luck with Fields and 4 less expensive years.  

But this only works if Watson fits in the LeFleur system.  

This. Watson's contract not a huge one, compared to the other top paid (not necessarily top performing) QB's. Houston has no first or second round picks in the upcoming draft, and they are $17 M over the cap - so procuring young cheap talent through the draft is highly desirable. This might make a trade of their most expensive asset more likely than it otherwise would be.

 

And no wonder Watson wants out: the football operations are being run by an ex team chaplain, FFS. Unless he as a "hot line" phone directly connecting him to some heavenly authority, that's a disaster in the making.

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12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I would think everyone should agree how bad the WRs were when they were out.  

The point is they played and got separation - the stats don't lie.

How many times do you see guys come in off the street for GB , NO ..... and have good games . Hell Chad Hansen was productive for the Texans

If the guys are open the QB needs to get them the ball regardless of what their last name is. 

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15 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But I'm arguing both would start on other teams, the  Darnold Weaponz  defense is getting old. 

Can't wait for Mims to be the breakout WR in the league next year and Crowder gets 90 catches with a different QB.

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4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Oh for crying out loud. Yeah, we went 0-13 because this team was just so talented. 

Your arguments are all over the place , no one is saying the Jets were a good team , we're just pointing out the lack of talent is not the problem in regards to the QB play. 

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9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

If JD is satisfied this is really a one time thing AND you can get him at a reasonable price.

I would be willing to go a pick more that you - 2 1's over the next two years rather than one you're offering, but much more than that would simply make it too hard to compete.

He's really good though.

I'd easily get on board with 2  firsts plus additional compensation.

3 firsts is gonna have a much harder sell for me. If it is the picks we got for Jamal plus an additional first and we use the  the #2 to draft Devonta Smith to pair with Watson .... Ooo la la. I might be able to get on board.

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31 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Oh, you mean like Sam Darnolds playoff games? 

Heres Deshauns history:

2019 10-6 Lost Divisional Round (Won 1 Round)
2018 11-5 

We usually agree on most things, and I believe you think that I don't want Watson... That isn't the case, however at what cost is the case.

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17 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

WCO as in Worldly College Offense 

Well FWIW the WCO is the only offense where you can get away with not having elite arm talent. Montana never did but he certainly had it upstairs. I think in the right situation Mac Jones could be a damn good QB in the NFL don't be surprised if Shanahan try's to grab him.

if we trade out of the second pick (Jets decide to go with Darnold)and get numerous more draft picks a competition between Jones , Darnold and Morgan would make sense

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1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Well FWIW the WCO is the only offense where you can get away with not having elite arm talent. Montana never did but he certainly had it upstairs. I think in the right situation Mac Jones could be a damn good QB in the NFL don't be surprised if Shanahan try's to grab him

I have no doubt that he can be a decent QB , but he is one guy I'd agree we'd need a top notch Oline for. 

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3 hours ago, Bronx said:

Really? Dallas Cowboys are a prime example. Their OL was premier in the league during Tony Romo's tenure. It slowly decimate to a sorry line and we know the results. If we could anchor this line it would immediately impact our game. Sewell is one of the highest rated OL in years. I would be ecstatic if he was drafted at #2. Not a sexy pic, but one that would rip benefits for years to come.

 

But is he generational?? LOL

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1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

I have no doubt that he can be a decent QB , but he is one guy I'd agree we'd need a top notch Oline for. 

Yep that's for sure and with all the picks we get for trading out of 2 that could easily become a reality. Now I'm reading some Mocks have Mac Jones going to the Steelers in the first. 

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5 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Trade Down .. take wilson at 4-5

Watson and his mega contract can go elsewhere thank you.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

His contract over the next 5 seasons will be about the same as Darnold's IF Darnold pulls a 180 and becomes a stud QB. A big IF at that.

The only way of avoiding that is hitting paydirt in the draft and having everything in place while he's on a rookie contract.

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11 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Your arguments are all over the place , no one is saying the Jets were a good team , we're just pointing out the lack of talent is not the problem in regards to the QB play. 

Read what you just wrote, the lack of talent is not a problem for the QB. Do you honestly believe a QB can be successful with utter crap around him?

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1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

Read what you just wrote, the lack of talent is not a problem for the QB. Do you honestly believe a QB can be successful with utter crap around him?

The relevant question is if a QB plays poorly with utter crap around him, does that make him secretly good?

Gotta show your work from "Sam's supporting cast stinks" to "Sam is a secret-FQB-in-hiding." 

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1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

Read what you just wrote, the lack of talent is not a problem for the QB. Do you honestly believe a QB can be successful with utter crap around him?

Think about what you wrote.  These "crap" guys are all NFL players.  No name wr's  , UDFA's , 5th/6th rd  picks play for virtually every NFL team at some point in time . Are they all utter crap , no they take advantage of their opportunity and are helped out by competent QB's.  

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28 minutes ago, jgb said:

It can both be true that the WRs were bad and that Sam Darnold still sucks. In fact, the evidence indicates this is by far the most likely situation. Darnold has been remarkably consistent for three years -- with guys hurt, with guys playing, different WRs each year, different OCs, different HCs -- consistently bottom of the league.

I stick with my prediction that with NFL-average or better QB play, the Jets weaponz will suddenly not look like trash and that the Jets offense will rank higher than its defense next year (if we move on from Sam) even before I know who the next QB will be. It's almost certain he will be better.

No one, I dont care if we had a better QB was going to produce with Barrios, Smith and Hogan as the WRs for any QB.

How well did Flacco look with that group? 21-44 for 48%, 180 yards, no TDs, and INT, QB rating of 50?  And a shutout.  Hardly better in his first game.  

But yes we can say Darnold sucks but how bad and can he be rehabbed.  Thats the magic question that none of music knows for sure.  

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7 minutes ago, jgb said:

The relevant question is if a QB plays poorly with utter crap around him, does that make him secretly good?

Gotta show your work from "Sam's supporting cast stinks" to "Sam is a secret-FQB-in-hiding." 

You sure you don't  want to talk about average separation for the first four games and then reflect that onto a different  stat that was brought up for the first 4 games but you argue it over the entire season with different receivers make your point?

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2 hours ago, Bronx said:

Well my friend, I guess we could wait another 3 years to taste the playoffs or draft another QB.

More than one way to skin a cat. 

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