Jump to content

Most Divisive Jets QB Debate of the 2000s


Most Divisive Jets QB Debate of the 2000s  

144 members have voted

  1. 1. Most Divisive Jets QB Debate of the 2000s



Recommended Posts

  • Replies 255
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Pennington and it's not even close.

Please.  It was obvious that Chad Pennington was a limp, glass noodle more consumed with his completion percentage than actually making plays to win games.  Universally hated. Mark Sanchez is the

No debate.  It's Pennington by a mile. The Penningtolists vs. the ACM (Anti-Chad Militia)?  It was like Israelis vs. Palestinians.  Nobody ever budged.  

Posted Images

On 1/18/2021 at 12:51 PM, jgb said:

The correct answer is zero because *opens Darnold excuse book to p. 184* he would've busted here anyway.

Besides not being excuses, we had the tools, we had Walker, Toon, Freeman, Harper, Hector a really good OL and a pretty good defense.  

Marino went to a SB with less

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/19/2021 at 7:30 AM, rangerous said:

IMO, the issue with chaddy is he was the ultimate tease. When healthy, he was great but he was just about never healthy.  The thing too is chaddy made the team around him better.  The Sanchez teams won in spite of him. (Oh I know many will point to the playoff wins but those were also complete teams). As for the other guys, the book on fitzy was well known and he turned out to be more of a horses as.  Geno came in being a horses as.

Pennington had something that none of the other QB's had, a brain.  Unfortunately he played in the Northeast outside and before his shoulder injuries had a below average NFL arm.  After he got hurt he couldn't make a large portion of the NFL route tree throws.  He still had enough smarts and guile to win.  Defenses were compressed because of his arm.  He still faked them out of their jocks and completed a high percentage of throws into amazingly tight windows.  

I was always suspect of him because of his arm and playing outdoors in cold weather.  After he was hurt I actually admired him more.  It was clear he didn't have the physical tools to be a starting QB in the NFL but he was able to win games and control games with his head.  It's highly under rated.  

I'm really not sure why the hate at this point.  The guy gave the fan base more hope and injected life into a team that was dead and buried.  For a short time he burned very bright.  

I suspect most of the hate for Pennington was because he gave us a glimpse of greatness and it didn't happen.  It wasn't his fault he got hurt. 

 

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Maxman said:

Maybe you weren't around for the Pennington stuff lol.

Can’t imagine ever rooting for a Jet to fail in order to be proven right on a messageboard. That’s sad.

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Pennington had something that none of the other QB's had, a brain.  Unfortunately he played in the Northeast outside and before his shoulder injuries had a below average NFL arm.  After he got hurt he couldn't make a large portion of the NFL route tree throws.  He still had enough smarts and guile to win.  Defenses were compressed because of his arm.  He still faked them out of their jocks and completed a high percentage of throws into amazingly tight windows.  

I was always suspect of him because of his arm and playing outdoors in cold weather.  After he was hurt I actually admired him more.  It was clear he didn't have the physical tools to be a starting QB in the NFL but he was able to win games and control games with his head.  It's highly under rated.  

I'm really not sure why the hate at this point.  The guy gave the fan base more hope and injected life into a team that was dead and buried.  For a short time he burned very bright.  

I suspect most of the hate for Pennington was because he gave us a glimpse of greatness and it didn't happen.  It wasn't his fault he got hurt. 

 

totally agree. that's why he was such a tease.  not his fault especially after he got injured.  too many qbs come in with big arms but just don't understand how to play the game.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

No need to imagine. Happens every single day by many of the same people who claim it doesn’t happen.

Haven’t seen anyone openly rooting for Darnold to fail, of course maybe that would change if he actually had a good game and made anti-Darnolds nervous 🤷‍♂️ 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, greenwichjetfan said:

Then stop turning a blind eye.

I’m pretty simpatico with the anti-Darnolds— you’ve probably noticed — haven’t seen it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the age of message boards - Pennington. Was THE topic on JI from the Raiders playoff game to an injured Favre losing to Chad in Week 17.

Rex Ryan destroying Chad in the Wildcard Game the following week probably had a lot to do w/ Woody hiring him.

If message boards were around in the 80s, O’Brien might have been more divisive.  Just used to hear so much debate about him amongst adults in the parking lot as a kid.  I.e - passing on Marino, Pat Ryan, taking too many bad sacks.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, jgb said:

I’m pretty simpatico with the anti-Darnolds— you’ve probably noticed — haven’t seen it.

Methinks your camaraderie disallows honest.

I’m done with Darnold too, but that’s the thing: I’m done with him. I’m not anti-him. There are posters who go out of their way to absolutely trash him, make fun of serious diseases, start threads rooting for him to be bad, and have rageposted for months and years about how he will never be good. People did similarly things for each of the QBs listed here. Those people can claim they’re rooting for them, but they’re simply being disingenuous on a message board.

I was over Pennington by ‘05, hated the Sanchez pick, hated the geno pick, and wanted someone else when Darnold was picked. Its all on record here and on JI. I got buttfumbled to oblivion on draft day because of the thread I started where I simply asked posters to sell me on Darnold cuz I wanted Rosen (yikes- talk about being wrong).

Still, I rooted for all of them and genuinely hoped they’d succeed, and was stoked when I thought I was finally proven wrong near the end of 2018. My self worth has never been tied to being validated on online forums. Then you’ve got others who need their stances to be right on message boards because they tie intelligence into their fandom as some sort of weird self validation:

On 1/19/2021 at 3:31 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

Isn't it amazing how the smart people on the board always end up being proven right in these QB debates?  The anti-Chads, Sanchez's, and Geno's all ended up right in the end.  And they'll end up right about Darnold being terrible, too.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Pennington had something that none of the other QB's had, a brain.  Unfortunately he played in the Northeast outside and before his shoulder injuries had a below average NFL arm.  After he got hurt he couldn't make a large portion of the NFL route tree throws.  He still had enough smarts and guile to win.  Defenses were compressed because of his arm.  He still faked them out of their jocks and completed a high percentage of throws into amazingly tight windows.  

I was always suspect of him because of his arm and playing outdoors in cold weather.  After he was hurt I actually admired him more.  It was clear he didn't have the physical tools to be a starting QB in the NFL but he was able to win games and control games with his head.  It's highly under rated.  

I'm really not sure why the hate at this point.  The guy gave the fan base more hope and injected life into a team that was dead and buried.  For a short time he burned very bright.  

I suspect most of the hate for Pennington was because he gave us a glimpse of greatness and it didn't happen.  It wasn't his fault he got hurt. 

 

He wasn't hurt during the Raider game in the 2002 playoffs.  21-47, 183 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs, 44.9 QB Rating.  What was the excuse for that performance, again?

It wasn't JUST about injuries/arm strength for Pennington.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Yep. Great guy, legit results, compromised by injury. There were a lot of Dimensions to that debate

Yes, lots of dimensions, as evidenced by this very post.  Because he wasn't a great guy, and he wasn't all that good even before his injuries.  

Really the only good thing you could legitimately argue about Chad Pennington in the positive is that, when the Jets were the better team, he took care of business.  He was good at protecting leads against weaker teams and rarely lost a game the Jets were supposed to win.  You can't say that about the Jets QB's who came after him.

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Methinks your camaraderie disallows honest.

I’m done with Darnold too, but that’s the thing: I’m done with him. I’m not anti-him. There are posters who go out of their way to absolutely trash him, make fun of serious diseases, start threads rooting for him to be bad, and have rageposted for months and years about how he will never be good. People did similarly things for each of the QBs listed here. Those people can claim they’re rooting for them, but they’re simply being disingenuous on a message board.

I was over Pennington by ‘05, hated the Sanchez pick, hated the geno pick, and wanted someone else when Darnold was picked. Its all on record here and on JI. I got buttfumbled to oblivion on draft day because of the thread I started where I simply asked posters to sell me on Darnold cuz I wanted Rosen (yikes- talk about being wrong).

Still, I rooted for all of them and genuinely hoped they’d succeed, and was stoked when I thought I was finally proven wrong near the end of 2018. My self worth has never been tied to being validated on online forums. Then you’ve got others who need their stances to be right on message boards because they tie intelligence into their fandom as some sort of weird self validation:

 

We have a very different experience here. If Darnold stays here I hope he proves me 100% wrong. If he doesn’t stay, I don’t care. Like you it’s not personal. I want the team to succeed.

FYI I thought Darnold was the right guy — wrong! — and we dodged a major bullet by not getting stuck with Rosen. Didn’t matter in the end. I believe had we taken Rosen we’d be hearing the same supporting cast arguments for him as Darnold.

Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

He wasn't hurt during the Raider game in the 2002 playoffs.  21-47, 183 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs, 44.9 QB Rating.  What was the excuse for that performance, again?

It wasn't JUST about injuries/arm strength for Pennington.  

We put up 41 the week before against the Colts in the playoffs to get to Oakland.  Oakland had a bye was at home and they had a much better team.   You’re cherry-picking.  
 

that Jets team was a 4 win team without Pennington giving it life. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

We put up 41 the week before against the Colts in the playoffs to get to Oakland.  Oakland had a bye was at home and they had a much better team.   You’re cherry-picking.  
 

that Jets team was a 4 win team without Pennington giving it life. 

I was at that Colts game.  One of the greatest games I've been to in my life in any sport.

It's not cherry picking to point out that Pennington threw up a complete dud in a playoff game.  That's a pretty horrid time to play poorly, and there was no excuse for it.  "Coming off a bye", lol.  Like you said, we were coming off a 41-0 win.  We had the momentum.

And he played poorly in big games and against competent defenses his whole career, so it's very relevant.  That kind of pattern means you can't put it all on the physical issues when it comes to Pennington.  Are you trying to suggest his arm was fine against weak teams, but a problem against good teams?

He simply wasn't that good.  It's OK to admit that over a decade later.  Jets fans have a strange reverence for QB's that either flat out sucked or weren't all that good.  This franchise hasn't had a real QB since Namath.  Pennington is part of that bad history of QB's, he's not an exception to it.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Clemens vs Chad was pretty heated for 2 years on multiple jet messageboards

 

 

Until Clemens actually played 😂

Clemens was not good though he did manage to fashion himself a nice career as a clip board holder in the league.

I felt sorry for Clemens, if there is one QB that had to deal with less talent on offense than the present jet it was him.

#1 Wr Justin Mcciarens

#1 TE Anthony Becht

oline with legends like anthony clement, adrien clarke and adrian jones

I can't even remember who he RB was , Reggie Barlow?

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Biggs said:

that Jets team was a 4 win team without Pennington giving it life. 

Based on what exactly?

There were 1-2 when chad took over, he went 8-5

The year prior they werwe 10-6, the year before that 9-7

They were projected as likely division winners by most of the "experts"  pre season, 8 of 15 voted  Jets,  4 dolphins , 3 pats

How did a 10 win team predicted to win the diviion morph into a 4 win team to support the noodle narrative

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/preview02/s/predictions.html

 

image.png.34b50e1cade8a1e08b51ad666d101a9e.png

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jgb said:

We have a very different experience here. If Darnold stays here I hope he proves me 100% wrong. If he doesn’t stay, I don’t care. Like you it’s not personal. I want the team to succeed.

FYI I thought Darnold was the right guy — wrong! — and we dodged a major bullet by not getting stuck with Rosen. Didn’t matter in the end. I believe had we taken Rosen we’d be hearing the same supporting cast arguments for him as Darnold.

Yeah I goof on Darnold to troll his fan boys, I have zero animus towards the guy and hope he works it out. Just never was a believer.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jgb said:

Can’t imagine ever rooting for a Jet to fail in order to be proven right on a messageboard. That’s sad.

Two words:  Adam Gase

SAR I

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, CTM said:

How did a 10 win team predicted to win the diviion morph into a 4 win team to support the noodle narrative

91.gif

SAR I

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CTM said:

Based on what exactly?

There were 1-2 when chad took over, he went 8-5

The year prior they werwe 10-6, the year before that 9-7

They were projected as likely division winners by most of the "experts"  pre season, 8 of 15 voted  Jets,  4 dolphins , 3 pats

How did a 10 win team predicted to win the diviion morph into a 4 win team to support the noodle narrative

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/preview02/s/predictions.html

 

image.png.34b50e1cade8a1e08b51ad666d101a9e.png

Vinny started 4 games.  Chad took over after Vinny went 0 for 4 and took a 10 yard sack after not generating any O in the 2 games prior.  Vinny was absolutely done by 2002.  He started 35 games from 2002 until he retired he went 12 and 23.  The Jets weren't sniffing the playoffs in 2002 with Vinny playing at the level he was playing and trying to run Paul Hacketts WCO.   Chad was 8 and 4 in 12 starts with the same team.  Chad could actually run the WCO.  That team probably gets a first round bye if Chad was installed as the starter when camp opened in 2002.  That was Herm's fault.  His loyalty to Vinny cost that team.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, jgb said:

Can’t imagine ever rooting for a Jet to fail in order to be proven right on a messageboard. That’s sad.

I wish it didn't happen and it is very rare but unfortunately it has happened here over the years.

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Maxman said:

Maybe you weren't around for the Pennington stuff lol.

Don't be silly.  There were just some who were much better at identifying his failure far earlier than others were willing/able.  So if anything, it was simply rooting for the known failure to get off the damn team, rather than continuing to waste even more of all our time.  A subtle difference.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CTM said:

Yeah I goof on Darnold to troll his fan boys, I have zero animus towards the guy and hope he works it out. Just never was a believer.

Goofing on him once in a while to troll the rare Nicos is very different from the nonstop rage posting in every thread that some are consumed with. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The answer is obviously Pennington, but I am surprised nobody is mentioning Hackenberg.  The number of people expecting that stiff to start and be good simply based on the fact that he never played a down was mind numbing.  It may not have been the most divisive, but there were a shocking number of people that believed in that guy, right though the trade, his FA pickup and getting a chance in the AAF.  It is/was insane. 

Have to agree with @JetsFanatic that Todd vs. Robinson was a good one that would have been awesome if there were message boards.  I was a Robinson guy, but I was very young and wanted to throw deep on every down.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Don't be silly.  There were just some who were much better at identifying his failure far earlier than others were willing/able.  So if anything, it was simply rooting for the known failure to get off the damn team, rather than continuing to waste even more of all our time.  A subtle difference.

And now that failure is known as the good old days. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Vinny started 4 games.  Chad took over after Vinny went 0 for 4 and took a 10 yard sack after not generating any O in the 2 games prior.  Vinny was absolutely done by 2002.  He started 35 games from 2002 until he retired he went 12 and 23.  The Jets weren't sniffing the playoffs in 2002 with Vinny playing at the level he was playing and trying to run Paul Hacketts WCO.   Chad was 8 and 4 in 12 starts with the same team.  Chad could actually run the WCO.  That team probably gets a first round bye if Chad was installed as the starter when camp opened in 2002.  That was Herm's fault.  His loyalty to Vinny cost that team.

1) Vinny attempted 4 passes in game 4, Chad 34.. Hanging that loss on VInny is disingeneuous. That's Chad's loss

2) Your point that VInny was done and thus the primary cause of early season struggles (1-2) only supports my point that the team was not bereft of talent. Chad took over a playoff caliber team and went 8-5 before being completely inept and blowing the divisional game.. yawn

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, CTM said:

1) Vinny attempted 4 passes in game 4, Chad 34.. Hanging that loss on VInny is disingeneuous. That's Chad's loss

2) Your point that VInny was done and thus the primary cause of early season struggles (1-2) only supports my point that the team was not bereft of talent. Chad took over a playoff caliber team and went 8-5 before being completely inept and blowing the divisional game.. yawn

Chad started because Vinny played himself out of the starting job.   Vinny got all the work in pre-season.  Chad came in cold and moved the team.  The loss was on Herm for starting Vinny.  Vinny simply forced Herm's hand.  

If you're arguing that Chad didn't lift that team you're being argumentative because you hate Chad.  He lifted the team.  He lead that team.  It was going nowhere with a washed up Vinny running Paul Hacketts WCO.   Herm was loyal to a fault and even he knew the team was DOA if it continued with Vinny.

Every NFL team has talent.  Chad was drafted in the first round by the same guys that drafted the foundation for that team to be a playoff team.  That was a terrific draft and Chad was worthy of a first round pick by a very competent group who were evaluating the talent.  The guy when healthy, which was not long enough was a very good NFL QB.

I hated Chad because I hated the WCO and loved running the ball and going over the top of defenses with a big armed QB who could take the top off a field and make the long throws down the field outside the hashmarks.  That wasn't Chad.  Not my ideal QB.  The guy had a great head, great ball fakes and made things happen on a team that was headed nowhere. 

Football is an interesting game because it's complex and there are a lot of ways to attack.  Chad had the mental makeup to attack defenses and be effective until his shoulder gave out.  I hate the throwing talent and really admire the guy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...