How about Watson for Darnold?

[32EBoozer]

13 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

What would you guys rather build around:

1) Rookie QB + 2021 1st Rounder + 2022 1st Rounders + 2022 1st Rounder
2) Sam Darnold + 2021 1st Rounder + 2021 1st Rounder + 2022 1st Rounder + 2022 1st Rounder
3) Deshaun Watson + 2021 1st Rounder + 2022 1st Rounder

I’ll take what’s behind door # 3 Bob. 

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

So imagine with Watson!

I can, and its very exciting, but I can also imagine a dome quarterback in a perfect-weather cake division coming to an outdoor foul-weather windy division without the OL and WR's necessary to thrive because we gave those picks away to get him.

This isn't a no-brainer.  It's actually opposed to the philosophy we've heard so far from Douglas and Johnson.  Certainly is making January an interesting month.

SAR I

[football guy]

5 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

detest isn't a noun

Contempt was the word I was going for, but thanks

[Jetsfan4life90]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I can, and its very exciting, but I can also imagine a dome quarterback in a perfect-weather cake division coming to an outdoor foul-weather windy division without the OL and WR's necessary to thrive because we gave those picks away to get him.

This isn't a no-brainer.  It's actually opposed to the philosophy we've heard so far from Douglas and Johnson.  Certainly is making January an interesting month.

SAR I

Not sure of the splits, but I'm pretty sure Watson's numbers are fine in non-dome stadiums. 

[southtown24th]

straight up

man for man

sure

[nycdan]

28 minutes ago, football guy said:

Fans are setting themselves up to be let down with the Deshaun Watson hysteria. Would it be great? Yes. Deshaun is an elite, franchise QB. Do I think it happens? No. I think there's a greater chance he remains in Houston, is traded to Miami, or traded to Carolina. 

I think Watson would approve a trade to New York, but I don't see the Jets matching the type of offer Carolina or Miami would make because Joe Douglas's stance that the roster needs a lot of work to build a sustainable winner; he's not going to give up 3 1st round picks+ for any player. Even if all 3 were to make offers and they were somewhat similar, Deshaun would have power where he goes via the no-trade clause (and given the status of the Dolphins/Panthers rosters its hard to see him pass up those opportunities for the Jets) and the Texans would likely prefer to send him out of the AFC. 

If he gets traded, I think he'll end up in Carolina. They have a roster stacked with talent, a bold owner who will work to get the deal done, a window to become the top team in the division (Brees retiring, Brady 1-2 more years), a stabilized culture, and a new GM who made a name for himself for his involvement in brokering blockbuster trades. Keep in mind, since Pete Carroll arrived in 2010 the team has traded away 6 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks... if there was a team out there who would consider sending 4 1st round picks, I think it would be the Panthers. 

Agree that CAR should be strongly interested but the one thing they can't do is provide an answer to HOU on the replacement QB problem.  Bridgewater isn't it and the #6 pick could easily leave them on the outside looking in on Fields and/or Wilson.  If HOU is happy enough trying to sell Lance or Jones to the fanbase then it can work straight up, but that also feels like a big reach.  

I suppose HOU could then turn around and explore moving up with some of the picks they acquired from CAR but then why not just trade with NYJ or MIA in the first place.  It's possible a three-team deal could work better, if CAR values Watson more highly than NYJ does and HOU values Fields more highly than NYJ does as well, but it feels like a stretch. 

 

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

4 minutes ago, football guy said:

Contempt was the word I was going for

yahtzee

[SAR I]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

Agree that CAR should be strongly interested but the one thing they can't do is provide an answer to HOU on the replacement QB problem. 

DING DING DING!

That be the answer to it all.  Houston can't lose Watson for a cache of draft picks.  Houston needs a quarterback and a head coach.  Besides the Jets, I can't see who can help them.  We can give them Fields and Darnold if we want.

Would another team want its franchise quarterback swapped for a change of scenery?  Detroit?  Atlanta?  That's the kind of thinking that should be taking place here, not the conventional theories we're seeing so far.  Which NFL teams have a legitimate starting quarterback that Houston fans could be excited about?

SAR I

[Irish Jet]

59 minutes ago, nycdan said:

You should see what some of them are saying.  Just as bad the other way.

Or my absolute favorite:

 

Which is exactly how some posters here would be in the same situation.  If there's a trade...any trade...there are going to be some mighty unhappy fans on both sides.

While some of those are bizarre they're not as bad as what I've seen here. There was another poster who said he wouldn't give up a 1st.

I think 3 of the 4 1sts would be required at the very least. Including the #2 overall. 

Most Texans fans I've seen aren't even entertaining the trade. They're saying they're done with the franchise if he goes. 

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

While some of those are bizarre they're not as bad as what I've seen here. There was another poster who said he wouldn't give up a 1st.

I think 3 of the 4 1sts would be required at the very least. Including the #2 overall. 

Most Texans fans I've seen aren't even entertaining the trade. They're saying they're done with the franchise if he goes. 

If trading two 1st rounders for Tunsil didn't do it...

and trading Hopkins for a 2nd rounder and washed up RB didn't do it...

I'm not sure I believe them anymore LOL.

[football guy]

14 minutes ago, Icer said:

It would be gross to see Watson playing in Miami for the next 15 years knowing we had a shot to get him

 

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

This. If the Jets don't get him, the next best thing is him getting traded to the NFC. Miami getting him would be a nightmare lol. 

I wonder if the Jets could work around something like giving up the #2 pick this year, one of the 1st round picks next year, 2023 1st round pick, and Darnold for Watson? That's 3 1st round picks total (including the #2 this year) and Darnold. I wonder if that could work for both sides. Jets would still own a 1st round pick this year and next. 

It would really suck. However, trading Deshaun in-conference with the possibility of having to face him every year is not in the Texans' best interest by any means, so I think they would do everything in their power to avoid sending him to an AFC team if they go down that road. I get the argument that #2/#3 is more valuable, but I think they would be less concerned with what they receive this year and more for the next few years because making such a move would be committing to a full-blown teardown and rebuild. They'd need 2 years to recover, and the chances are they would look to fire/hire a new coach once the organization is attractive again. For these reasons, I think they would rather move him to the NFC even if it means taking a little less, which is a similar stance teams have taken in the past re: trading elite players, especially QBs. They'd get inquiries from everyone, so it's not like there would be a limit on the offers. They wouldn't have to play him for 3 years (unless they were to face off in the Super Bowl) and it wouldn't sting as much. 

 

If the Jets, Dolphins, or any AFC team were to trade for him, I think they'd automatically be asked to pay a premium. If Houston really likes Darnold/Tua that helps, but again, if the front office views it as a long-term rebuild their value is not as important. I think it would take at least 3 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks. Maybe you can swap out a 2nd for Darnold but still, I don't think there is any scenario they will accept a trade absent 3 1st round picks and I don't think Joe is trading 3 1sts for anyone. It's not his team-building philosophy. Miami might, but most likely I think it would be Carolina. I can see them offering a megadeal and then trade Teddy to someone for a 3rd. 

[JetPotato]

So DeShaun Watson wants out of Houston, primarily because of inept ownership and because he feels they aren't doing enough in the social movement of the current day, and people here think that he'll forget about all that to come play for Woody Johnson? Ok.

[oatmeal]

23 minutes ago, football guy said:

My sources have very little to do with my football intellect. I can't control how others perceive me; whether it's with respect or detest, I can only share what I know and could care less what others think. You challenging my credibility means very little to me, but for the sake of entertainment, I'll welcome you into the lions den. 

First and foremost, congratulations. I've never seen someone commit so many logical fallacies (9) using so little words (138). 

As far as actually contributing something of substance, I can walk circles around you on any topic RE: football without the use of a single source. I think you're uninformed not because you lack a source/I have them, but because of the incredibly stupid things you post. I don't think you understand what you are watching, and I think your rationale is incredibly fallacious and quite frankly, dumb. Taking the "temperature of other fan bases" as a basis to determine what you think will happen is the most brain-dead thing I've ever read.

Anyway, I own my own business in addition to being a lawyer. I think I'm doing just fine.  “If you look at this situation it’s obvious how it plays out” as me 

 

I don’t know why you feel the need to type paragraphs to me this a.m. This is a NYJ football forum ?‍♂️

Are you still salty because you made those silly comments about Bill Bieniemy being a “babbling used car salesmen” and me questioning your attendance during those interviews? If so I could careless 
 

A lawyer, a business owner, a nfl insider, a jetnation early a.m. paragraph poster and obvious post stalker.... Im moved ?

 

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

So DeShaun Watson wants out of Houston, primarily because of inept ownership and because he feels they aren't doing enough in the social movement of the current day, and people here think that he'll forget about all that to come play for Woody Johnson? Ok.

Johnsons deserves plenty of criticism but their jets have a great minority hiring history and they never wavered in supporting players’ prerogative to kneel/protest

[Jetsfan80]

6 hours ago, jgb said:

If JD swings that he should be investigated for witchcraft 

Goodell would block the trade and force Cal McNair to sell the team immediately.

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Goodell would block the trade and force Cal McNair to sell the team immediately.

Competency hearing before Judge Goodell

[football guy]

27 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Agree that CAR should be strongly interested but the one thing they can't do is provide an answer to HOU on the replacement QB problem.  Bridgewater isn't it and the #6 pick could easily leave them on the outside looking in on Fields and/or Wilson.  If HOU is happy enough trying to sell Lance or Jones to the fanbase then it can work straight up, but that also feels like a big reach.  

I suppose HOU could then turn around and explore moving up with some of the picks they acquired from CAR but then why not just trade with NYJ or MIA in the first place.  It's possible a three-team deal could work better, if CAR values Watson more highly than NYJ does and HOU values Fields more highly than NYJ does as well, but it feels like a stretch. 

If they trade Watson, I don't think they would seek to turn around and take another QB just because. I think they would approach it knowing they need to tear the whole thing down, and we can't just assume that they would "love" any of these QB prospects. I think it would be more likely that they would have a fire-sale, enter next year with McCarron as the starter or look into acquire a veteran (Jimmy Garoppolo?) and continue accumulating talent to make it a more attractive job in 2 years from now. Only way I see them dealing intraconference is if Caserio is willing to put his job on the line in support of Tua or Sam being long-term replacements to Deshaun. Not saying that's impossible but I wouldn't say its probable. It wouldn't shock me if Caserio decided to prioritize building around the QB position first and wait to draft a "future face of the franchise" later. In his eyes that may not even be necessary (if he were to acquire someone like Jimmy G). 

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, football guy said:

If they trade Watson, I don't think they would seek to turn around and take another QB just because. I think they would approach it knowing they need to tear the whole thing down, and we can't just assume that they would "love" any of these QB prospects. I think it would be more likely that they would have a fire-sale, enter next year with McCarron as the starter or look into acquire a veteran (Jimmy Garoppolo?) and continue accumulating talent to make it a more attractive job in 2 years from now. Only way I see them dealing intraconference is if Caserio is willing to put his job on the line in support of Tua or Sam being long-term replacements to Deshaun. Not saying that's impossible but I wouldn't say its probable. It wouldn't shock me if Caserio decided to prioritize building around the QB position first and wait to draft a "future face of the franchise" later. In his eyes that may not even be necessary (if he were to acquire someone like Jimmy G). 

My only area of disagreement is the intra-conference comment.

When you are trying to get to the Super Bowl, you certainly should be avoiding helping any intra-conference rivals.

When you are trying to get to the playoffs, you should try to avoid intra-division rivals.

When you are trying to get to 'not-sucking', all bets are off and you should trade with anyone that gets you the highest return.

[football guy]

28 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

 

I don’t know why you feel the need to type paragraphs to me this a.m. This is a NYJ football forum ?‍♂️

Are you still salty because you made those silly comments about Bill Bieniemy being a “babbling used car salesmen” and me questioning your attendance during those interviews? If so I could careless 
 

A lawyer, a business owner, a nfl insider, a jetnation early a.m. paragraph poster and obvious post stalker.... Im moved ?

 

Eric* Bieniemy. Never compared him to a used car salesman - that's another 3 fallacies for you (strawman, red herring, hasty generalization). You're on a real tear today, child. 

[football guy]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

My only area of disagreement is the intra-conference comment.

When you are trying to get to the Super Bowl, you certainly should be avoiding helping any intra-conference rivals.

When you are trying to get to the playoffs, you should try to avoid intra-division rivals.

When you are trying to get to 'not-sucking', all bets are off and you should trade with anyone that gets you the highest return.

I agree with this, but I don't think teams do for PR purposes 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Sarcasm I hope Theodore 

Obviously.

I'd never take that deal if I'm Joe Douglas.

[JetPotato]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Johnsons deserves plenty of criticism but their jets have a great minority hiring history and they never wavered in supporting players’ prerogative to kneel/protest

You're presenting facts as if they matter at all when it comes to these kinds of issues.

Woody is and always will be associated with Trump. I doubt many will dismiss that.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

You're presenting facts as if they matter at all when it comes to these kinds of issues.

Woody is and always will be associated with Trump. I doubt many will dismiss that.

Call me old fashioned but I’ll never give up on facts. I mean a Muslim just chose us ferchristsakes if anyone would be turned off by the association, it would be him.

[Jetsfan4life90]

9 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

You're presenting facts as if they matter at all when it comes to these kinds of issues.

Woody is and always will be associated with Trump. I doubt many will dismiss that.

At the end of the day, facts are what matters.

Watson clearly also doesn't have an issue regarding that if he has the Jets on his list. 

[Yucatan Jetfan]

Yup.  We have what they desperately need, not the other way around.

Fields + Daboll saves their franchise as they can sell that to their fanbase. Only the Jets can make that happen. 
SAR I

Holy smokes. Second post in a row that I agree with. SAR l post Gase is on a hot streak

Sent from my SM-J701M using Tapatalk

[batman10023]

9 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Darnold is done, if you go check the temperature of other fan bases the consensus is the jets are either going Watson or QB at 2. Really nobody believes the “Jets May build around darnold” narrative, the only people that legitimately believe this are Darnold fans. 
 

If you remove biases from this situation and analyze all factors, it’s kinda obvious how this thing plays out imo 

does it matter what the fan bases say versus the GMs?

that being said i'd be surprised if he sticks around.

[JetPotato]

44 minutes ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

At the end of the day, facts are what matters.

Watson clearly also doesn't have an issue regarding that if he has the Jets on his list. 

Facts are what SHOULD matter, not what does. That's a discussion for another day.

Not convinced the Jets are on his list until he says it himself. 

[rex-n-effect]

Practically you wouldn't give up a FQB for a guy who at best could be a FQB with a lot of help unless there is a lot to sweeten that deal. Even if Darnold can be what he was supposed to be he needs help which means guaranteeing at least one year of rebuilding with a real risk that he still never reaches that point. Houston would need enough draft capital to draft a potential starter this year and let Darnold and the draft pick battle for the starting position. That's going to mean a high draft pick this year plus some other draft capital. Unless Houston is unreasonably high on Darnold that probably takes this year's first plus two more early picks. At that point the Jets might as well draft the best QB available at #2 and use the other two picks to fill the roster and let Darnold plus another pick battle for the starting position.

[Ghost420]

7 hours ago, SAR I said:

Their fans don't want multiple picks.  They want a Watson replacement.  These aren't the Patriots, these aren't fans with multiple Super Bowls who can be chill for a few seasons while the Texans rebuild.  The Titans and Jaguars have legit quarterbacks.  The Colts will get a veteran behind that line.  The Texans need Fields, has to happen.

For the Jets, with Fields in hand, Watson becomes a luxury.  We can just sit tight at 2 and do nothing.  The Texans need to make something happen.  Fields is their answer.

SAR I

Wilson is better than fields tho

[varjet]

6 hours ago, Tranquilo said:

What would you guys rather build around:

1) Rookie QB + 2021 1st Rounder + 2022 1st Rounder + 2022 1st Rounder
2) Sam Darnold + 2021 1st Rounder + 2021 1st Rounder + 2022 1st Rounder + 2022 1st Rounder
3) Deshaun Watson + 2021 1st Rounder + 2022 1st Rounder

1

Seattle gave the Jets first round picks with an approximate aggregate value of 1500 points on the JJ Draft Value Chart. 

The 2 pick is worth 2600 points.  So all of this talk about Adams yielding 2 first round picks is misguided.

The most I would pay for Watson, including his salary, is the equivalent of around 3500 points.

[68JET11]

7 hours ago, jgb said:

Doesn’t work that way you double dipping sonuvagun

Yea I see my typo lol...

[vic]

Skip the Watson talk, Douglas will never do it. Much too expensive! He didn’t accumulate all these draft picks to hand them back for one player. We will either stick with Sam and trade down or go with Wilson at 2.


Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

[DonCorleone]

No thank you to Watson.

"Watson’s frustration “was on a 2 then I took it to 10,” he tweeted last week, nearly word for word confirming an ESPN report those were his anger levels between the Hopkins trade and now. He wanted input on the Texans’ searches for a general manager and head coach."

https://nypost.com/2021/01/20/deshaun-watson-should-quickly-get-to-jets-richard-sherman/

 

[Lizard King]

On 1/19/2021 at 3:56 AM, jgb said:

Me neither if they trade Watson they’ll insist on a package that includes a high pick this year and draft their guy. 

That would be a big mistake. In a competent environment I would guarantee you Darnold Plays ok. If I’m Houston I flip those picks 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Lizard King said:

That would be a big mistake. In a competent environment I would guarantee you Darnold Plays ok. If I’m Houston I flip those picks 

Define “competent environment” and “ok,” if you please.