Cimini Wants Watson, But Can't Afford Him

[peekskill68]

34 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

The dude is signaling if we got D Wat, he'd come to NY, no?. 

Please give examples of where top tier FA's in a salary capped league, and where careers are short, offer discounts to teams so they can play with a given QB.  

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

I'm shocked at how many people don't want deshaun watson.

Shocked. 

It makes 0 sense to me.

Seattle gifted us 2 1st rounders. We add in 2 of our own and we have a franchise qb for the next 15 years.

What am I missing? 

 

it's the same logic of not wanting a QB at 2

the team is too far away for 1 player to step in and make it work just by being that QB guy  

the Texans offense is better than the Jets offense at every position except Becton/Tunsil and even that's an argument.  (Tunsil has made 2 Pro Bowls, Becton was snubbed as a rookie) 

there's no Will Fuller on the roster or even a David Johnson 

why would Watson want to come to NY to rebuild this team? because of Robert Saleh? it's a stretch and Watson will likely be blitzed into the ground within a month 

just like Trevor or Justin Fields would have or how Sam has been pinata'ed since his debut 

this team isn't equipped for the QB1, that's how severe of a gut job JD did to get rid of Gase 

[bgivs21]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We're not winning a championship without a QB, either.  At least my path locks in the most important piece.  And no, we wouldn't only be relying on later round picks.  We'd still have a first rounder or 2 left between now and 2023, depending on which 1sts Douglas gives up.  Plus we'd get pick(s) back after trading Darnold.

I said it in another post. This is the fundamental disagreement between us. IMO if we get Watson, it wont be for anything less than our 4 first rounders the next two years. 

If we can get him for what you said earlier, 3 first rounders spread between 2021-2023, then yeah I'd be open to getting him. But to me that's nothing more than a pipe dream. 

[Paradis]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Watson is 25.  It doesn't matter if the team isn't ready to compete until 2023.  Watson would only be 28 by then.  Plenty of great years ahead.  

And my argument is it wouldn't take nearly that long to compete.  The entire roster will look a lot better with Watson under center (plus the new coaching staff).

trade Four for Watsons, and that 2023 becomes 2025. 

I'd rather take my chances with Fields..... x100000000000

[varjet]

Look at the Packers and the Bucs.  The Packers built through the draft, drafted a QB in the 20s, coached and developed him and eventually paid him top of the market and have been competitive almost every year.  The Bucs built through the draft and paid a veteran QB a below top of the market salary so he can throw to a great team of receivers.

Look at the Chiefs and Bills-same but different story.   Both teams drafted a first round draft pick to move up a bit and draft a QB.  They otherwise built through the draft.  Each team has written or will write a big contract for that QB.

Trading many, many draft picks for Watson, and still pay him $30+mm after 2021 (a year where the Jets still need players) seems crazy.  I do not think that a team pays the price for Watson that the media expects.   I saw this trade referred to as the Herschel Walker trade, but in reverse.  No-those trades always work for the team that gets the draft picks.  You trade all of those picks and Watson ends up like Alex Smith its over.

When the Texans decided to pay Watson all that money, that was a risky but sound decision.  They still had their draft picks (at the time).   To pay all that money and lose your draft picks-that is lunacy.

Trading a ton of picks for Watson would be a classic Johnson move.  They are salivating over that.  I can't see JD doing it. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

Is your argument that trading for Watson would be like signing Kirk Cousins?  Because that would be absurd.  I hope this isn't what you're saying here.  

[Jets723]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

go back and reread. You and to a lesser extend @Warfish are arguing in some cosmic universe where you think the Jets are ready to compete in 2021 or 2022... we'll be LUCKY FCKING DUCKS if we are competitive in 2022. And all of the guys you're forgetting that like Crowder, Maye, 4/5 of our Oline etc will all be leaving or sucking by then. 

Realistically this team isn't making a deep playoff run until 2023... that's if EVERYTHING worked out. We are the worst team in the NFL right now. Watson doesn't accelerate that projection by 24 months -- if that was true they'd be playing KC right now.

Not debating how valuable Watson is, but some of you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to managing the other 52

Agreed.  Nobody is downgrading Watson. We all admit he is very good and in a better situation we would love to bring him on board.  Sadly we have too many holes to fill and we can’t afford this huge asking price 

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

What does Cousins have to do with anything? I'm not sure what you are getting at. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

trade Four for Watsons, and that 2023 becomes 2025. 

I'd rather take my chances with Fields..... x100000000000

All available reports suggest the Jets want to trade down and run it back with Darnold.  Might be a smokescreen but for now its what we have.  So unless they fall in love with Fields in the next few months that's not even happening anyways.  We'd be kicking the QB can down the road.  

And no, trading our 1sts wouldn't push things to 2025.  lmao.  You're catastrophizing unnecessarily.  Add Watson and this team wins 8-9 games in 2021 and is off and running.  A couple smart FA adds and a few smart picks by Douglas in the 2nd-3rd rounds and we're a contender.  This roster is bad but its not THAT bad.

[bgivs21]

4 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

Being against the trade because you would have to pay a top QB what top QB's earn is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. I guess every team that has a franchise QB not on a rookie deal should just start tearing apart their teams since they obviously won't be able to win paying a QB over $30M/year. 

You obviously didn't read my entire opinion on the matter. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

I said it in another post. This is the fundamental disagreement between us. IMO if we get Watson, it wont be for anything less than our 4 first rounders the next two years. 

If we can get him for what you said earlier, 3 first rounders spread between 2021-2023, then yeah I'd be open to getting him. But to me that's nothing more than a pipe dream. 

We have 5 first rounders in the next 3 drafts.  Four 1st rounders would leave one regardless of how you look at it.

I don't think it would cost four 1sts, since the # 2 pick would be involved.  

[slimjasi]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Might be a smokescreen but for now its what we have.  So unless they fall in love with Fields in the next few months that's not even happening anyways.  We'd be kicking the QB can down the road.  

I still think there is a shot they fall in love with Wilson and/or Fields. 

I think people are underestimating how much work gets done between now and the draft. Once the offensive coaching staff is fully assembled, they will evaluate Darnold. Even if you buy the argument that the SF coaches loved Darnold, they probably haven't seriously evaluated him since week 2 when we played the 49ers. Dude put out a LOT of bad tape after that. 

Then, regardless of what the new staff thinks of Darnold, they are going to be evaluating the QBs in this draft, which includes working them out and interviewing them. Plenty of time to fall in love. 

[dbatesman]

57 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

It's insane the amount of resistance to taking an actual top 3-5 QB in the league. 

When people blame the fans for the Jets being bad all the time, this is exactly what they're talking about. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

Just now, peekskill68 said:

Please give examples of where top tier FA's in a salary capped league, and where careers are short, offer discounts to teams so they can play with a given QB.  

Never said the dude is offering a discount. 

I'm saying A Rob isn't coming here as we're currently constructed. Why would he? But with Deshaun...

As Cimini referenced in his article, this is a unique situation. 

[32EBoozer]

55 minutes ago, static14 said:

Namath’s knees were famously strong and surgery free right? 

Different era. You can’t breath on a QB these days w/o a flag. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, slimjasi said:

I still think there is a shot they fall in love with Wilson and/or Fields. 

I think people are underestimating how much work gets done between now and the draft. Once the offensive coaching staff is fully assembled, they will evaluate Darnold. Even if you buy the argument that the SF coaches loved Darnold, they probably haven't seriously evaluated him since week 2 when we played the 49ers. Dude put out a LOT of bad tape after that. 

Then, regardless of what the new staff thinks of Darnold, they are going to be evaluating the QBs in this draft, which includes working them out and interviewing them. Plenty of time to fall in love. 

Well hopefully they're already in love with Watson and the Texans are in love with draft picks.  I'm tired of waiting on a franchise QB for this franchise.  

[greenwichjetfan]

12 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Honestly I’m dumbfounded at the number of pro-Watson posters who refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of the alternative, which is to sit and build through the draft...

”that’s stupid, we’ll be fine”

lol are u fcking kidding me? 

It’s not confusing as to why cutting to the chase and trading for Watson has its benefits. But there is a naïveté about how the rest of the team is just going to organically evolve around that decision. You can’t buy a championship. God knows how many teams like MIN have tried and failed.

There’s a reason why we have 4 firsts. This team SUCKS. you’re god damn right there’s merit in entertaining drafting over trading. 

looking at the two years those pics span over,

• we have a left tackle, a receiver, and a corner. That’s it.
• Maye's got a couple years at best left in him,
• those Band-Aid lineman will be gone in two years, as well Crowder just about anyone else listed on offense.
• We all know CJ Mosley‘s gonna be half the guy he was when we signed him. Hasn’t played a full season in two years.
• We kind a have a Dline. Kinda. No pass rush but some trench warriors. 

Don’t waste my time pretending the ONLY sensible thing to do is to write a blank check to HOU.  Just don’t.  

Hot takes from this crowd:

- "Deshaun will automatically make the whole team better" while turning a blind eye to the fact that a significantly better roster with a top 5 QB season just went 4-12

- "JD draft James Morgan to be the Jets FQB of the future" while now wanting to spend more draft capital on acquiring another FQB of the future. 

 

I absolutely love Watson as a player and person and can't think of any other QB outside of Mahomes that I'd start a franchise with tomorrow. Still, essentially 5-6 first round picks (assuming the 1.02 could be traded for an additional 1st rounder next year) is extremely steep for a player who is a consistent injury risk because of the way he plays. 

[Dunnie]

47 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

That’s in the ballpark of what you’ll have to give up for a 25 year old, borderline Top 5 QB.

It amazes me how some Jets fans think we’re going to land Watson for the same price Seattle paid for a box safety.

That trade would still leave the Jets with #23 this year, two 3rd’s, a 4th, two 5th’s, a 6th and a 7th. We’d probably add an extra 2nd/3rd after trading Darnold as well.

We’d also still have a 1st next year and all of our other picks minus the 4th rounder included in the Adams trade.

The Jets will have essentially traded Jamal Adams and a 2023 1st round pick for Deshaun Watson. What fan in their right mind wouldn’t make that deal?

Exactly .. which is why this will never happen .. Watson simply doesnt have the rings to demand that kind of deal.

[slimjasi]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Well hopefully they're already in love with Watson and the Texans are in love with draft picks.  I'm tired of waiting on a franchise QB for this franchise.  

Me too, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I still think it's a bit of a pipe dream, unfortunately. 

I still am not convinced Watson gets traded, and even if he is traded, I am still not convinced Douglas trades away enough draft capital to get it done. 

[Paradis]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

All available reports suggest the Jets want to trade down and run it back with Darnold.  Might be a smokescreen but for now its what we have.  So unless they fall in love with Fields in the next few months that's not even happening anyways.  We'd be kicking the QB can down the road.  

And no, trading our 1sts wouldn't push things to 2025.  lmao.  

Yes it would. Absolutely. 

And i know that at crust of this issue is "Sam-avoidance" which continues to motivate people into believing that Watson will set the wheel in motion where suddenly Oline pulls a benjamin button and all the other holes are filled like Taxi Girls vol 3... 

• Accept that 2021 is yr 1.5 of a rebuild. Whether it's Sam or Josh McCown at QB - doesn't matter. It's about get those pieces in place
• Again, accept that you'll finish 5-11, maybe 7-9 next year if we stand on our heads.
• Revisit the 2 points
• One more time, reread those first 2 points
• If Sam pulls a Tannehill, great. amazing.. Who knew? If not, great. Means we have top 10, maybe top 5 pick.
• We find our QB this year or next year in the draft. If next year - great, that rookie contract starts in 2022 when we can make use of it.

 

The Fan in you wants Watson. the GM in knows that's the biggest risk of your career

[Dunnie]

1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Hot takes from this crowd:

- "Deshaun will automatically make the whole team better" while turning a blind eye to the fact that a significantly better roster with a top 5 QB season just went 4-12

- "JD draft James Morgan to be the Jets FQB of the future" while now wanting to spend more draft capital on acquiring another FQB of the future. 

 

I absolutely love Watson as a player and person and can't think of any other QB outside of Mahomes that I'd start a franchise with tomorrow. Still, essentially 5-6 first round picks (assuming the 1.02 could be traded for an additional 1st rounder next year) is extremely steep for a player who is a consistent injury risk because of the way he plays. 

- Where is Darnold or even better ... Fields or Wilson.

 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Paradis said:

Yes it would. Absolutely. 

And i know that at crust of this issue is "Sam-avoidance" which continues to motivate people into believing that Watson will set the wheel in motion where suddenly Oline pulls a benjamin button and all the other holes are filled like Taxi Girls vol 3... 

• Accept that 2021 is yr 1.5 of a rebuild. Whether it's Sam or Josh McCown at QB - doesn't matter. It's about get those pieces in place
• Again, accept that you'll finish 5-11, maybe 7-9 next year if we stand on our heads.
• Revisit the 2 points
• One more time, reread those first 2 points
• If Sam pulls a Tannehill, great. amazing.. Who knew? If not, great. Means we have top 10, maybe top 5 pick.
• We find our QB this year or next year in the draft. If next year - great, that rookie contract starts in 2022 when we can make use of it.

 

The Fan in you wants Watson. the GM in knows that's the biggest risk of your career

 

It's far riskier to pass on Deshaun Watson.  Just ask Mike Maccagnan how that worked out.

[RedBeardedSavage]

Just now, greenwichjetfan said:

Hot takes from this crowd:

- "Deshaun will automatically make the whole team better" while turning a blind eye to the fact that a significantly better roster with a top 5 QB season just went 4-12

- "JD draft James Morgan to be the Jets FQB of the future" while now wanting to spend more draft capital on acquiring another FQB of the future. 

 

I absolutely love Watson as a player and person and can't think of any other QB outside of Mahomes that I'd start a franchise with tomorrow. Still, essentially 5-6 first round picks (assuming the 1.02 could be traded for an additional 1st rounder next year) is extremely steep for a player who is a consistent injury risk because of the way he plays. 

Another hawt take:

The #2, a first rounder next year, and one in 2023 does not leave us particularly weak in draft capital over the next several years. We'd only be without a first round pick in 2023. 

That, along with our cap space, still gives us the ability to build the roster after a Watson trade. 

[bgivs21]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And you said $40M per and that's false.  You are forgetting that much of the bonus money owed to Watson would have to get paid out by Houston after trading him here.  The amount the Jets would be left to pay Watson would be very reasonable for a franchise QB. 

You seem to operate like nobody has to pay QB's like we'd have to pay Watson.  It's a silly aspect of the argument.  Franchise QB's get paid, period.  And for the most part they deserve every penny.  If the Jets draft Fields at # 2 overall, they'd eventually have to pay him a lot more than Watson would be getting.

It's not false, his salary in guaranteed money in 2022 is 35 mil, that's all on the Jets. His salary in 2023 is 20 mil guaranteed with a 17 mil roster bonus, also on the Jets (37 mil). I said 40 mil because you don't round down, but you're numbers are off. 

[32EBoozer]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I still think there is a shot they fall in love with Wilson and/or Fields. 

I think people are underestimating how much work gets done between now and the draft. Once the offensive coaching staff is fully assembled, they will evaluate Darnold. Even if you buy the argument that the SF coaches loved Darnold, they probably haven't seriously evaluated him since week 2 when we played the 49ers. Dude put out a LOT of bad tape after that. 

Then, regardless of what the new staff thinks of Darnold, they are going to be evaluating the QBs in this draft, which includes working them out and interviewing them. Plenty of time to fall in love. 

With the Combine being canceled and uncertainty of what individual workouts will be like... there is less opportunity to be 100% sure this is “the guy”!

Watson has a ton of tape showing 100% he has been “the guy” for a few years now. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I want nothing to do w/ watson.  Build through the draft.  let the dolphins mortgage their future for a qb w/ 2 reconstructed knees.

You're acting like it's 1975 and ACL injuries are a career threatening injury. Nowadays, guys come back 100% in months and have zero issues the rest of their careers. 

It's also comical to act like you want nothing to do with Watson, a player who will arguably be the best QB this franchise has ever had.

[peekskill68]

3 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Never said the dude is offering a discount. 

I'm saying A Rob isn't coming here as we're currently constructed. Why would he? But with Deshaun...

As Cimini referenced in his article, this is a unique situation. 

And I'm saying I think he WOULD come here and have Darnold throwing to him if JD offered him the most money.  I guess we just disagree...

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, bgivs21 said:

It's not false, his salary in guaranteed money in 2022 is 35 mil, that's all on the Jets. His salary in 2023 is 20 mil guaranteed with a 17 mil roster bonus, also on the Jets (37 mil). I said 40 mil because you don't round down, but you're numbers are off. 

$11M in 2021 brings that average wayyyyy down.  We'll go from $60M in cap space in 2021 down to $49M.  Worry about the future years later.  And like I said, franchise QB's get paid.  A lot.  This is a silly aspect of a hypothetical trade to be worried about.  All QB's worthy of a 2nd contract are going to get paid a lot of money.  

[Untouchable]

22 minutes ago, QB1 said:

You’re forgetting about the 2nd overall pick 

Yes, the 2nd overall pick...which many want to spend on a complete shot in the dark like Fields or Wilson.

At the end of the day, I think all of this is moot anyway.

The Jets are probably going to keep Darnold, trade down from #2 and add to the haul of picks we have over the next two years.

But I still wouldn’t be against such a trade for a 25 year old pro-bowl QB who just threw for over 4800 yards and 33 TD’s despite his team trading away arguably the best WR in the NFL.

Towards the end of the year Watson was making Chad Hansen look like an NFL player for Christ’s sake.

Players like this never become available. Douglas would be a dildo to not at least explore it and gauge Watson’s interest in playing for the Jets.

Next to the Bears and Browns we’ve been the most QB depraved team in the league over the last 50 years.

[Jets723]

Look let’s say we do this.  Let’s say in order to get Watson it cost the #2 pick, our own 2022 first round pick, our 2023, And a 2022 second round pick.  So basically we will be left with the 23rd pick this year and Seattle’s pick next year which will be in the 20’s most likely.  IMO that puts even more pressure on Douglas to hit a homerun in those late round picks which is far less likely than having the number 2 pick and the other two first rounders.  Not only that he would also need to get lucky and hit a homerun  on the second and third rounders.  Don’t forget in my scenario we gave up an additional 2nd rounder.  Plus FA would still have to overpay on top of taking on Watson’s contract do we would have less cap space.  Point is it will be far harder to rebuild this team and you would need a lot of luck to hit a homerun the last round d picks.  I just don’t see Douglas doing it for that price 

[RedBeardedSavage]

Just now, peekskill68 said:

And I'm saying I think he WOULD come here and have Darnold throwing to him if JD offered him the most money.  I guess we just disagree...

If we pay above market value, depending on the degree, yes, we might be able to land A Rob even with Darnold at quarterback. 

I think we'd be able to land A Rob @ market value if we had Deshaun.

We agree the dude that posted cash registers in a response to a twitter post about his good year isn't taking discounts. 

I question the wisdom of signing him above market value if we do not make the Deshaun trade. Might as well stay young and build slow. But if we did give up a bunch of draft picks, then signing A Rob lessens the hit we take from trading those draft picks

[dcJet]

Three firsts is not a huge price.  The 2nd overall would be used for fields, so that's a wash when we get watson.

The other two Seattle picks are probably in the 20's which may get two starters or only one.  Maybe Hollywood Brown types.

Fields + 1 or 2 starters is not better than Watson.  Fields may bust, 2 rookies may bust.  Watson doesn't bust and might get us a FA like Arob and we have other draft picks - we're loaded

 

[dcJet]

Watson is a QB.  Dude can play another 15 years.  Four years from now, he has 10 years left and we have more draft picks and cap space.

This is the current GB, KC, TB and BUF model - you know, the 4 teams left in the playoffs.  They have the FQB, and they have new draft picks every year and they manage the cap.

We can be in that position in 4 years with Watson.  

[Paradis]

All that said — it’s all hot air. 

any coach thinking about taking that job is gonna want Watson to stick around. I addition to that if talks really started, some team ready to compete will wind up being the Cinderella to land him. Gruden in Vegas or Smith in ATL, or even Ron in DC - teams with some semblance of momentum - will be the landing spot. 

not the worst team in the NFL

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

22 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's the same logic of not wanting a QB at 2

the team is too far away for 1 player to step in and make it work just by being that QB guy  

the Texans offense is better than the Jets offense at every position except Becton/Tunsil and even that's an argument.  (Tunsil has made 2 Pro Bowls, Becton was snubbed as a rookie) 

there's no Will Fuller on the roster or even a David Johnson 

why would Watson want to come to NY to rebuild this team? because of Robert Saleh? it's a stretch and Watson will likely be blitzed into the ground within a month 

just like Trevor or Justin Fields would have or how Sam has been pinata'ed since his debut 

this team isn't equipped for the QB1, that's how severe of a gut job JD did to get rid of Gase 

So basically faulty logic?

Because what u basically wrote is that trevor lawrence would be a bad pick for the jets. Fields would be a bad pick. And Watson would be a bad trade.

So in your opinion, when will the Jets be ready for a qb1? 

Next year? In 3 years? 5 years? Never?