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I don't want Watson, I want a better team


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We just saw what can happen when Deshaun Watson is on a team lacking talent - he goes 4-12. We are so much farther away from contending than just a QB. We need all the help we can get, we need al

I also want the Jets to suck forever

4 first round picks? No. 3? Maybe, depending on the picks 2? Yes Everything is dependent on price

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17 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Irish as ****. Oddly enough, my kids, who are 1/2 Middle Eastern, are actually paler than I am. Weird.

Yeah, I'm so white that I get sunburned if I stand under a 100W light bulb for too long.

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1 hour ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Watson MAKES the Jets a better team.

I'm the whitest of whitey boys, Love Notre Dame, Army Football, Star Wars and Historical Fiction,  but are we REALLY this scared of an AA Quarterback that we want to cling to the Ginger popgun?

 

Leaving James Harden GIF by Farmers Insurance ®

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3 hours ago, Dcronin said:

We just saw what can happen when Deshaun Watson is on a team lacking talent - he goes 4-12.

We are so much farther away from contending than just a QB. We need all the help we can get, we need all the picks we can get. 

Trade down, sign FAs, do anything to get an influx of talent. But don't give up a ransom for Deshaun.

That's where I'm leaning. Okay, now talk me into how we get Deshaun and still get better.

DC

Wait, are the Jets not getting anyone else if they get Deshaun? 

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3 hours ago, Dcronin said:

We just saw what can happen when Deshaun Watson is on a team lacking talent - he goes 4-12.

We are so much farther away from contending than just a QB. We need all the help we can get, we need all the picks we can get. 

Trade down, sign FAs, do anything to get an influx of talent. But don't give up a ransom for Deshaun.

That's where I'm leaning. Okay, now talk me into how we get Deshaun and still get better.

DC

With Watson in play here's how I would do it.

Trade #23 Next years 1 and 2023 1 plus Sam Darnold for Watson. That's 3 ones and Sam

Trade the # 2 and accumulate more picks. If we trade back to 5 or 6 Sign Jamarr Chase and Sign Allan Robinson via FA and we are set at WR for the next 5 + years.

Figure out a way to package a few picks to move up and draft Najee Harris. If this is obtainable you are set at the skill positions .

With the remaining 2's and 3rd round picks get a guard and a center ..... then spend the rest of the draft on defense.

With Robinson and Watson you add about 50 mil to our cap so if we have 80 Mil under the cap that should be enough to sign our draft picks and whatever else we need  to round out or roster. 

Keeping in mind we do not have to get Robinson if we draft Chase and we would still be explosive on offense because I think we can resurrect Herndon's career.

 

With all this being said I would still lean toward not trading for Deshaun and building through the draft but i would still trade the #2 OA and look to draft Mac Jones later in the first or in the second. In this scenario Jones, Morgan and Darnold would be competing for the starting job and i would expect Jones to win the Job and run our shiny new WCO

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3 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

2020 Winning Percentage

Deshaun Watson - 25%

Sam Darnold - 17%

 

We want to give up a bunch of 1st round picks for what again?

 

 

 

Hide Reaction GIF by flor

 

:hap:

As the Pittsburg Pirates said to the HOfer Ralph Kiner “we can come in last without you!”   
 

Interesting Point!

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Well to be fair....90% of this anti Josh Allen 55% comp percent  crowd is back giving opinions on the next great qb this team should trade for/ select via trade or draft.  
 

if you can get Watson get him....he’s a game change and 25.

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3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

There is more than one path to success. Anyone that thinks getting Watson is a horrible idea is a fool and conversely anyone that says passing on Watson is a horrible idea is also a fool. 

The benefit of adding Watson are pretty clear.

1- He is 25 and already a franchise QB and arguably the best QB this organization has ever had (Sorry Joe). 

2- We have 4 1st round picks the next 2  years so giving up 2 isn't that devastating to our rebuild

3- We have 9 draft picks this year. Again, Joe did a great job stockpiling picks so we have the chance to improve this roster even if we give up #2 plus

4- This team is not Houston. Houston is an aging relic of a team in cap hell this year. We can afford to bring in Watson and have cap space to bring in some more players to build the team fast. 

5- Most importantly, who cares how bad Houston did last year? They don't WANT to trade him. He is forcing a trade. Some of you are acting as if they are fed up with Watson. 

6- In 2018, the Packers were 6-9-1 with Rodgers. Would you have said "Why get Rodgers when the Packers can't win with him????" The next year, the Packers went  13-3. You know what changed? The coach. You know what's changing in NY? The coach. 

7- Do we really want Allen on the Bills and Watson on the Dolphins? Are we rebuilding for 2031 when those guys may be out of their prime? 

Don't be silly

JOE D will not FCUK this up badly.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Titan24 said:

Well to be fair....90% of this anti Josh Allen 55% comp percent  crowd is back giving opinions on the next great qb this team should trade for/ select via trade or draft.  
 

if you can get Watson get him....he’s a game change and 25.

He's an excellent QB but I keep seeing these type of posts coming immediately after Houston won 4 games.

4 of the top 8 passing stat QBs from last year missed the playoffs.

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4 hours ago, Dcronin said:

We just saw what can happen when Deshaun Watson is on a team lacking talent - he goes 4-12.

We are so much farther away from contending than just a QB. We need all the help we can get, we need all the picks we can get. 

Trade down, sign FAs, do anything to get an influx of talent. But don't give up a ransom for Deshaun.

That's where I'm leaning. Okay, now talk me into how we get Deshaun and still get better.

DC

Trading away Jamal Adams and an additional 1st is not mortgaging the future for a top 3 QB in the league.

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3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

There is more than one path to success. Anyone that thinks getting Watson is a horrible idea is a fool and conversely anyone that says passing on Watson is a horrible idea is also a fool. 

The benefit of adding Watson are pretty clear.

1- He is 25 and already a franchise QB and arguably the best QB this organization has ever had (Sorry Joe). 

2- We have 4 1st round picks the next 2  years so giving up 2 isn't that devastating to our rebuild

3- We have 9 draft picks this year. Again, Joe did a great job stockpiling picks so we have the chance to improve this roster even if we give up #2 plus

4- This team is not Houston. Houston is an aging relic of a team in cap hell this year. We can afford to bring in Watson and have cap space to bring in some more players to build the team fast. 

5- Most importantly, who cares how bad Houston did last year? They don't WANT to trade him. He is forcing a trade. Some of you are acting as if they are fed up with Watson. 

6- In 2018, the Packers were 6-9-1 with Rodgers. Would you have said "Why get Rodgers when the Packers can't win with him????" The next year, the Packers went  13-3. You know what changed? The coach. You know what's changing in NY? The coach. 

7- Do we really want Allen on the Bills and Watson on the Dolphins? Are we rebuilding for 2031 when those guys may be out of their prime? 

So we are only giving up two 1st rounders?  SOLD! 

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Even if it took 3 firsts, we still would have plenty of draft capital and a ton of cap space. We also have a promising WR in Mims, a good slot guy, a franchise LT, and (supposedly) a good coach with a good OC. 

I'm usually a stockpiling draft picks guy, but you're talking about taking a chance on unproven talent vs. almost guaranteeing top 5 QB play.

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3 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Watson MAKES the Jets a better team.

I'm the whitest of whitey boys, Love Notre Dame, Army Football, Star Wars and Historical Fiction,  but are we REALLY this scared of an AA Quarterback that we want to cling to the Ginger popgun?

 

Leaving James Harden GIF by Farmers Insurance ®

 

Nobody is  bringing up AA in the conversation.  It’s all about what we have to give up.  The dudes a top 5 qb!   This isn’t Geno 2.0

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3 hours ago, Pac said:

Change if Watson was our QB last year to if Saleh was our coach and you can make the same argument.

No you cant.

Saleh is an unknown at this point, Watson isnt 

 

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I want fields and we still have enough draft capital to build. 

That being said I would be willing to give up the 2nd pick and Seattle's first round this year and next year. In essence you're moving the 2nd overall which technically should be a franchise qb and Jamal Adam's. 

Anything more and it starts to feel too.much. 

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55 minutes ago, Titan24 said:

Well to be fair....90% of this anti Josh Allen 55% comp percent  crowd is back giving opinions on the next great qb this team should trade for/ select via trade or draft.  
 

if you can get Watson get him....he’s a game change and 25.

I'm one of those and I'll take Watson please

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7 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

 

Nobody is  bringing up AA in the conversation.  It’s all about what we have to give up.  The dudes a top 5 qb!   This isn’t Geno 2.0

Agreed. A First on top of what we got for Adams is change compared to what a legitimate Franchise QB could bring the organization. 

 

Also, I was kinda trolling some of the reactionaries because I'm an ass. 😆 

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We just got 32nd rated QB play and had awful coaching. If you can add top 5-7 QB play with real coaching, sign some FAs and hit some draft picks (If you give 3 NYJ firsts for Watson we’d still have the Seattle 1s), this team will be turned around very quickly   

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13 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

We had 2 very, very good teams with an average/below average young QB in 09 and 10.  We made it to back to back AFC title games.  That window closed almost immediately and hasn't reopened since.  I'd argue we've had a few recent rosters since then but QB play has been asking the worst in the NFL.

By potentially acquiring Watson, the Jets open about an 8 year window.  

By doing whatever non Watson strategy that might exist, they are risking the 09/10 cycle again where they have a really good team but not a QB good enough to win it all.  

It's also possible that the Jets strike gold at QB in a non Watson route.  That is obviously the ideal scenario.  It's also the biggest crapshoot.

The thing that is fascinating to me about this discussion is really that this is a very simple risk tolerance discussion.  In my "real" life, I'm a very risk adverse person, and in this scenario, I side with the less risky option(Watson). 

 

 

While I agree. Sort of. The 09/10 team was filled with high priced free agents/veterans. There was no young core to keep going. It’s always gonna close fast if you build like that. If you can draft well, you’re basically the Colts. Keeping above water until you find the right guy at QB. 

Then again..the Jags were a team that built a nice young team that peaked for 1-2 years but no QB and well, here they are. 

Moral of the story....if you can stabilize the QB position for 5 or so years with a top 5 talent, you fn do it. Otherwise you’re treading water. 

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5 hours ago, Dcronin said:

We just saw what can happen when Deshaun Watson is on a team lacking talent - he goes 4-12.

We are so much farther away from contending than just a QB. We need all the help we can get, we need all the picks we can get. 

Trade down, sign FAs, do anything to get an influx of talent. But don't give up a ransom for Deshaun.

That's where I'm leaning. Okay, now talk me into how we get Deshaun and still get better.

DC

Great Post!!!

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People have become so enamored with Watson they seem to have forgotten the number of holes on this roster.  How many players this year were playing on a one year contract?  It's going to take a large number of picks and free agents just to field a complete team.

Is it possible to trade multiple premium picks for Watson and his big contract and still build a decent team around him?  Yes, but the team's margin for error is going to get much smaller.  Joe Douglas is going to have to hit on a significant percentage of his picks and free agent signings.  He's going to have to draft high quality starters with mid round picks, much better than he did last year with Davis, Perine, Morgan, and Zuniga.

At the end of the day, I think it's going to come down to the team's evaluation of the quarterbacks in this draft.  I understand that it's human nature to overlook a proven commodity for a question mark or a player that has underperformed, but that is why an NFL team employs a general manager and a team of scouts for millions of dollars every year.  Let them do their jobs.  When we look back in 5 years, it very well may be the case that:

Zach Wilson/Justin Fields + 2 first round picks + $100m in cap space to sign premium players > Deshaun Watson

OR

Sam Darnold + 3 first round picks + $50m in cap space to sign premium players > Deshaun Watson

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I’m strangely content with all of our options right now. 
 

I’m sure I’ll get torn apart for these opinions, but I’m not all that worried about which direction JD takes with the offseason. If we end up with Watson, that’s awesome. It all depends on how much, of course, but they’d finally have an answer at QB. Will Sam be a part of that trade? I dunno. I’d be cool with that. I’d prefer we could keep as many high picks as possible, I pass if it goes to more than three firsts. I mean Jamal Adams plus a first... I could live with that, but they have to have a first rounder in one of the next two drafts.
 

If JD passes, they can either draft Fields, Sewell, Wilson, Chase, Smith, whoever. All of those players have question marks so pick whoever makes the team better. All are pretty decent options. 
 

If that choice is not a QB, they build around Sam to give him a final chance to earn his spot. Lots of options with so many early picks in the next two years. I don’t hate this option, but I don’t love it. I’d love to see that Gase really was the issue and Sam recovers and becomes a solid QB, I dunno. I lost a lot of faith in Sam this year. Worst case scenario is a better version of last season and Sam is gone next year and at least it will be fun to watch the new players and read JN. 

 

if JD trades down, then that’s more opportunities to get young talent for a new, fresh coaching staff. Hopefully these new coaches work well together and the team gets better. I think that I have seen enough of JD to think that he’ll have a 50-60% success rate and could be higher. I don’t think he’s another Macc. I hope not. He’s made some mistakes, but seems to have a decent plan. It’s his first time in the big chair so there will be bumps. 
 

As long as this front office hits more than it misses, these are not horrible options. I don’t think next season will be like this season. 

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5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Name two of the Packers starting offensive linemen without Googling it

How is this such a great point? 

The highest paid lineman in the football is on the packers 

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9 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

 Joe Douglas is going to have to hit on a significant percentage of his picks and free agent signings.  He's going to have to draft high quality starters with mid round picks, much better than he did last year with Davis, Perine, Morgan, and Zuniga.

 

I agree, except the part about finding starters with mid-round picks.  Those are luxuries.  You need starters with your first two picks, and good depth players (you hope) with later picks.  Starters are a luxury in the 4th-7th rounds.

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15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Name two of the Packers starting offensive linemen without Googling it

Don't know. But I do know that when the Packers last won a superbowl their starting Tackles were Chad Clifton and Brian Bulaga, both of whom I think were drafted by the Packers in the first three rounds of the draft. And something tells me that if the Packers win the SB this year, we'll all know the names of their O linemen.

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14 hours ago, hawk said:

What is to say he doesn't pout like a baby when things don't go his way again?  Incredibly fun to watch, and highly talented.  Great!  If he throws a tantrum against his team, he is not a team player.  Period.  

I get not being happy with your boss, but there are right ways to handle it and poor ways.  

 

JMO

Was thinking the same thing. Who knows?

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