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I don't want Watson, I want a better team


Dcronin
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15 hours ago, Dcronin said:

We just saw what can happen when Deshaun Watson is on a team lacking talent - he goes 4-12.

We are so much farther away from contending than just a QB. We need all the help we can get, we need all the picks we can get. 

Trade down, sign FAs, do anything to get an influx of talent. But don't give up a ransom for Deshaun.

That's where I'm leaning. Okay, now talk me into how we get Deshaun and still get better.

DC

2-14 vs 4-12. QB’s are crucial but the Jets have to build a team before they break the draft bank on one guy with 2 reconstructed knees. 

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3 minutes ago, MaxAF said:

2-14 vs 4-12. QB’s are crucial but the Jets have to build a team before they break the draft bank on one guy with 2 reconstructed knees. 

A situation this unique isn't something that can be timed; he's available when he's available. If we were talking about RBs with a short expected shelf life, or a 28 yr old CB, I'd agree. 

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1 minute ago, The Gooch said:

Hey stranger!  Where the heck have you been?

Had to take a break from the sh*t show this year. First time in 50 years I skipped a few games. I even endured the Kotite era. But we have new blood 🩸 in the ranks so on to rebuild 4.0 or is it 5.0 or 6.0. Lost count. 

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4 minutes ago, MaxAF said:

Had to take a break from the sh*t show this year. First time in 50 years I skipped a few games. I even endured the Kotite era. But we have new blood 🩸 in the ranks so on to rebuild 4.0 or is it 5.0 or 6.0. Lost count. 

Well you came back just in time for all the drama!!

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16 hours ago, Dcronin said:

We just saw what can happen when Deshaun Watson is on a team lacking talent - he goes 4-12.

We are so much farther away from contending than just a QB. We need all the help we can get, we need all the picks we can get. 

Trade down, sign FAs, do anything to get an influx of talent. But don't give up a ransom for Deshaun.

That's where I'm leaning. Okay, now talk me into how we get Deshaun and still get better.

DC

I'm 100% with you.  Let's just get better, and give Darnold another year with a better roster and a better coach.

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12 hours ago, Beerfish said:

He's an excellent QB but I keep seeing these type of posts coming immediately after Houston won 4 games.

4 of the top 8 passing stat QBs from last year missed the playoffs.

Thank you!

It is the myth of the QB solving everything, when they don't and they can't!

Watson won 4 Games; 2 more than the Jets, and that is with far superior talent on the offensive side of the ball!

So great QB play definitely helps your team win but that ISN'T enough!  The Jets haven't been a poor team for almost a decade because of poor QB play alone!

There simply  group of fans who fanaticize about just how good the Jets talent is and that somehow one player or two is holding the jets from being the Bills.

No; we have a horrible roster and there is plenty of work to do besides just having a new QB.

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17 hours ago, Dcronin said:

We just saw what can happen when Deshaun Watson is on a team lacking talent - he goes 4-12.

We are so much farther away from contending than just a QB. We need all the help we can get, we need all the picks we can get. 

Trade down, sign FAs, do anything to get an influx of talent. But don't give up a ransom for Deshaun.

That's where I'm leaning. Okay, now talk me into how we get Deshaun and still get better.

DC

Please ban this person for life.

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6 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you!

It is the myth of the QB solving everything, when they don't and they can't!

Watson won 4 Games; 2 more than the Jets, and that is with far superior talent on the offensive side of the ball!

So great QB play definitely helps your team win but that ISN'T enough!  The Jets haven't been a poor team for almost a decade because of poor QB play alone!

There simply  group of fans who fanaticize about just how good the Jets talent is and that somehow one player or two is holding the jets from being the Bills.

No; we have a horrible roster and there is plenty of work to do besides just having a new QB.

There is no doubt the roster still needs major work but for all those worried about trading picks away for Watson, let me paint a picture for you.

Let's say we keep the picks and draft Wilson or Fields. For this plan to work, the guys you take with our other high picks have to be studs first of all. Then, you need to give the new QB at least 3 years to develop and acclimate to the NFL. If at the end of the 3 years the QB stinks and hasn't developed, you're screwed. You just wasted the opportunity cost over 3 years of finding another QB in the draft and have to start all over again. The players you drafted 3 years ago with those high picks are nearing their next contract and their talents are going to waste as you resume another search for a new QB (and that is assuming you actually hit on those picks to begin with which is a 50/50 proposition).

There is no doubt a QB can't do it all alone. You need to have a roster around him. But some QBs cover up holes in rosters better than others. Mahomes does it, Rodgers does it, Allen does it, Lamar does it (sometimes), brady did it forever. I believe Watson is that type of QB. The idea of passing on a QB like that when you have been searching for 50 years for him is mind boggling. It actually hurts my brain that others would rather keep lottery tickets that may not work out rather than an elite qb who can provide you a decade of solid QB play. YOU HAVE A DECADE TO HELP SUPPORT HIM! I don't know what else to say. God bless all Jets fans!

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11 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

People have become so enamored with Watson they seem to have forgotten the number of holes on this roster. 

People have been so used to terrible Jets QB play for the last 50 years that they think there are more holes than there are on the Jets roster, year in and year out.  Many of the supposed holes on this roster will no longer be deemed holes with Watson under center.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

People have been so used to terrible Jets QB play for the last 50 years that they think there are more holes than there are on the Jets roster, year in and year out.  Many of the supposed holes on this roster will no longer be deemed holes with Watson under center.

How did those holes in the Texans roster look last season?

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2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Don't know. But I do know that when the Packers last won a superbowl their starting Tackles were Chad Clifton and Brian Bulaga, both of whom I think were drafted by the Packers in the first three rounds of the draft. And something tells me that if the Packers win the SB this year, we'll all know the names of their O linemen.

Well its a good thing Douglas used a 1st round pick on Becton last draft, and has a lot of other picks and FA dollars to use for the G/C/RT spots as he sees fit, even after a hypothetical trade for Watson were to occur.

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9 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Arguably the biggest single step to fielding a better team is having better QB play. 

Exactly.  Everyone's job gets easier, from the WR's and O-Linemen down to the coaches on the lowest rungs of the ladder/hierarchy.  Free agents clamor to come play for you as long as you can pay market value for their talents.  Suddenly the GM and HC are confident they have more job security and can take bigger swings in roster building and on-field strategy.  Food tastes better, meaning @The Crusher is happier.

Everything for a franchise gets so much better with a young franchise QB.  We just don't know what that feels like (unless you were at least 10 years old when Namath was here), hence why a sizable portion of the posters here are against trading for Watson altogether.  All they see are the picks and the cap dollars and think that's the end of the story.  They only see what is lost by acquiring Watson, not all the things that are to be gained.

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12 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Arguably the biggest single step to fielding a better team is having better QB play. 

It all goes back to people not wanting to admit they were wrong about the QB. 

I could've sworn Herbert was going to be awful in the NFL - I was totally wrong, the kid's great. There's nothing wrong with being wrong; as long as you don't double down on the mistake by throwing good money after bad.

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6 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

It all goes back to people not wanting to admit they were wrong about the QB. 

I could've sworn Herbert was going to be awful in the NFL - I was totally wrong, the kid's great. There's nothing wrong with being wrong; as long as you don't double down on the mistake by throwing good money after bad.

Yep, I thought Allen was almost guaranteed to bust and that Sam would, at the very worst, be above average. It happens. Gotta get over it. 

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1 hour ago, Sammybighead said:

There is no doubt the roster still needs major work but for all those worried about trading picks away for Watson, let me paint a picture for you.

Let's say we keep the picks and draft Wilson or Fields. For this plan to work, the guys you take with our other high picks have to be studs first of all. Then, you need to give the new QB at least 3 years to develop and acclimate to the NFL. If at the end of the 3 years the QB stinks and hasn't developed, you're screwed. You just wasted the opportunity cost over 3 years of finding another QB in the draft and have to start all over again. The players you drafted 3 years ago with those high picks are nearing their next contract and their talents are going to waste as you resume another search for a new QB (and that is assuming you actually hit on those picks to begin with which is a 50/50 proposition).

There is no doubt a QB can't do it all alone. You need to have a roster around him. But some QBs cover up holes in rosters better than others. Mahomes does it, Rodgers does it, Allen does it, Lamar does it (sometimes), brady did it forever. I believe Watson is that type of QB. The idea of passing on a QB like that when you have been searching for 50 years for him is mind boggling. It actually hurts my brain that others would rather keep lottery tickets that may not work out rather than an elite qb who can provide you a decade of solid QB play. YOU HAVE A DECADE TO HELP SUPPORT HIM! I don't know what else to say. God bless all Jets fans!

I agree 100%!!!

I for one want Watson here!

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1 hour ago, Sammybighead said:

There is no doubt the roster still needs major work but for all those worried about trading picks away for Watson, let me paint a picture for you.

Let's say we keep the picks and draft Wilson or Fields. For this plan to work, the guys you take with our other high picks have to be studs first of all. Then, you need to give the new QB at least 3 years to develop and acclimate to the NFL. If at the end of the 3 years the QB stinks and hasn't developed, you're screwed. You just wasted the opportunity cost over 3 years of finding another QB in the draft and have to start all over again. The players you drafted 3 years ago with those high picks are nearing their next contract and their talents are going to waste as you resume another search for a new QB (and that is assuming you actually hit on those picks to begin with which is a 50/50 proposition).

There is no doubt a QB can't do it all alone. You need to have a roster around him. But some QBs cover up holes in rosters better than others. Mahomes does it, Rodgers does it, Allen does it, Lamar does it (sometimes), brady did it forever. I believe Watson is that type of QB. The idea of passing on a QB like that when you have been searching for 50 years for him is mind boggling. It actually hurts my brain that others would rather keep lottery tickets that may not work out rather than an elite qb who can provide you a decade of solid QB play. YOU HAVE A DECADE TO HELP SUPPORT HIM! I don't know what else to say. God bless all Jets fans!

No. Poor assessment. You’re going to waste 3 years of Watson with 5-11 and 7-9 records with the Jets anyway. This is the fan in you leading this conversation  

Here’s the reality:

-even if you draft Fields and he isn’t the answer, you’ve more than likely improved the roster 10 fold during those years with picks and cash to set the table for the next guy. A Dilfer even. 

-even the semi serviceable on the roster now will need to be replaced over the next 3 years. This team has 5/53 long term players on the roster. FIVE. FOR FCK SAKES 

Again. Team Watson glossing over current challenges to suite their narrative. Tom fcking Brady couldn’t put the Jets in the playoffs over the next 2 years without a major overhaul. 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Well its a good thing Douglas used a 1st round pick on Becton last draft, and has a lot of other picks and FA dollars to use for the G/C/RT spots as he sees fit, even after a hypothetical trade for Watson were to occur.

Like I said, we need to calm down and see what the offseason plan is and what FA's he brings in. If we get better on the OL, I'm all for trading Seattle's 2 1's this and next year and Sam for Watson, but I would keep our #2 so we have leverage to move down and recoup a pick or 2...

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send darnold and our two first rounders -

watson is elite qb that is cap friendly in the early part of his contract

pair him with Arod or Godwin

bring in Gus Edwards / Jeff wilson and philipp lyndsey

sign hunter henry

use rest of draft picks on o and d line

boom we are a playoff team next year and not at the expense of our future

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17 minutes ago, Paradis said:

No. Poor assessment. You’re going to waste 3 years of Watson with 5-11 and 7-9 records with the Jets anyway. This is the fan in you leading this conversation  

Absolutely not.  There will only be one "wasted season", at most.  He will then be 26 and you will then have at least 8 years of perennial contention ahead.  

Thinking that "rebuilds" take 3 years in this league is antiquated thinking.  Having a QB accelerates the process immensely every single time.  A top 5 QB would accelerate things even moreso.

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it's all about resource allocation.  the jets can use the draft picks to land a big time qb in a trade and use salary cap to bring in some top oiline help or they can draft a qb and use draft picks for the oline and then salary cap for other skill players.  another point is if the jets do make a move for watson i can see other teams trying to get into the act.  maybe the 49ers offer up garapollo for a different draft pick set.  maybe detroit does the same with stafford.  there are lots of possibilities.

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Absolutely not.  There will only be one "wasted season", at most.  He will then be 26 and you will then have at least 8 years of perennial contention ahead.  

Thinking that "rebuilds" take 3 years in this league is antiquated thinking.  Having a QB accelerates the process every single time.  

On teams with some semblance of a foundation. We disagree on how bad this roster is. 
 

now if I was GM... I’d need only 2 drafts 😘

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8 minutes ago, Paradis said:

On teams with some semblance of a foundation. We disagree on how bad this roster is. 

If the 2020 roster as it stands were simply jumped ahead in time to 2021, you would be correct that the roster is indeed mostly awful. 

But acquiring Watson changes the way the team is built for the better.  Yes, we lose high picks.  But we also no longer would have to spend heavy draft capital on a QB (as we'd be forced to do, either this year or next), and suddenly would become a terrific destination for free agents.

If Douglas is any good at his job (which I believe we can all agree he's at least decent), the 2021 roster will look fine.  Not ready to contend, no, but fine.

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If the 2020 roster as it stands were simply jumped ahead in time to 2021, you would be correct that the roster is indeed mostly awful. 

But acquiring Watson changes the way the team is built for the better.  Yes, we lose high picks.  But we also no longer would have to spend heavy draft capital on a QB (as we'd be forced to do, either this year or next), and suddenly would become a terrific destination for free agents.

If Douglas is any good at his job (which I believe we can all agree he's at least decent), the 2021 roster will look fine.  Not ready to contend, no, but fine.

Unless Darnold 

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15 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

With Watson in play here's how I would do it.

Trade #23 Next years 1 and 2023 1 plus Sam Darnold for Watson. That's 3 ones and Sam

Trade the # 2 and accumulate more picks. If we trade back to 5 or 6 Sign Jamarr Chase and Sign Allan Robinson via FA and we are set at WR for the next 5 + years.

Figure out a way to package a few picks to move up and draft Najee Harris. If this is obtainable you are set at the skill positions .

With the remaining 2's and 3rd round picks get a guard and a center ..... then spend the rest of the draft on defense.

With Robinson and Watson you add about 50 mil to our cap so if we have 80 Mil under the cap that should be enough to sign our draft picks and whatever else we need  to round out or roster. 

Keeping in mind we do not have to get Robinson if we draft Chase and we would still be explosive on offense because I think we can resurrect Herndon's career.

 

With all this being said I would still lean toward not trading for Deshaun and building through the draft but i would still trade the #2 OA and look to draft Mac Jones later in the first or in the second. In this scenario Jones, Morgan and Darnold would be competing for the starting job and i would expect Jones to win the Job and run our shiny new WCO

Except they will want the #2 to draft Fields and appease the fans. No way they do it without that pick. 

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