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Put Your Name to the Watson/Darnold/Draft Qb Dilemna!


32EBoozer

Which of the following Qb scenarios are you in favor of.  

220 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of the following Qb scenarios are you in favor of

    • Roll with Sam (no 5th yr)and keep all our picks sign FA Qb to compete
    • Stay at #2 and select Fields or Wilson and keep picks
    • Try and trade out & get more picks (50/50 chance you get a team to move up)
    • Send #2; ‘22 #1 and ‘23 #1 for Watson and build around him


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3 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

I think that deal is a possibility.The Texans have their back against the wall. What other teams can offer more than us and still have draft capital moving forward?... Miami? They only have one #1 pick in 22 & 23 and they'll be in the #25 - 32 range with Deshaun. Would they give up both #1's this year and their '22 #1 as well?

A LOT has to happen for this type of haul.... especially if teams know you're not taking Sewell or a Qb. Why trade up to #2?

To answer your first part: I don’t think 3 1st round picks gets it done. I think that’s the starting point. I also think Deshaun has zero leverage... Houston’s back isn’t against the wall despite the ominous media narrative. If they want to trade him, they will. If they don’t, they won’t. Plain and simple. If they do make him available, we’re firmly in the mix because of the Capital we have, but I wouldn’t assume that puts us in front. I think the Texans would take less to move him out of the conference, and being that they’re in for a long rebuild they may prefer 3 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks from 2021-2024 from Carolina instead of 3 1st round picks from the Jets despite the fact that the Jets have #2 because of that desire to move him out of conference and the fact that the rebuild will be long, they’ll require quantity > quality, etc. It wouldn’t be the first time a team took less to trade a player out of conference...


 

To address your second point, Washington sent the Rams a massive haul despite knowing they wouldn’t take a QB; the Rams sent the Titans a massive haul despite knowing they wouldn’t take a QB; the Jets sent the Colts a massive haul despite knowing they wouldn’t take a QB. The reason teams trade up is pretty much a combination of 3 reasons: (1) they love the prospect; (2) they sense they’re only a player away from contending; and (3) they want to beat another team to the punch.  

Teams can’t be sure what Joe Douglas will do on draft day. They’ll speculate, but until the pick is in there’s always a possibility he’ll take a QB (see 2017 49ers-Bears trade)... it’s not like Darnold is Burrow; there’s definitely at least a possibility they’d take one. Second, if a team wants to be sure, they need to get to the highest pick available. If say Carolina prioritized negotiating with Miami at #3 and the Jets traded to Atlanta at #4, that team potentially loses their QB. Final reason, the demand for QBs is so high that a team may make a stupid decision, as Washington did in 2012.

Personally, I won’t be surprised if the Jets trade down twice to teams needing QBs, collect additional 2nd’s this year and future 1sts next. I think Douglas sees an opportunity to build a year-in, year-out winner regardless of the QB, and the best way to do it will be to stay disciplined and to not get blinded by the flashy QB prospects. At the end of the day, if the Jets draft a total of 6 1st round prospects, say 3 2nd round prospects, and 3 3rd round prospects over the next 2 drafts, you can put Sanchez in the lineup and the Jets should win 10 games a year. That’s how I think Joe Douglas is going to play it absent a Watson trade.

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No disagreement there.  But people who are against trading for Watson are focused entirely on what the Jets will be able to do in the short-term to build around Watson.  It's as if they put up blinders when you point out that Watson is 25 and could very well be playing at an elite level all the way through 2030.  There's plenty of time and resources available to create a Super Bowl window around Watson, even if the Jets were to give up a lot to get him.  

Trade for Watson, even with 3 or even 4 first rounders headed Houston's way, and this team is a perennial contender starting in 2022.

in concept i agree.  but i think the texans will want too much draft capital and douglas has a longer term view of it all.  for all we know, they've already decided to keep darnold and trade back with any number of teams who will want to move up, namely atlanta and carolina.  while i would rather them take zach wilson who i think will be an instant star, i can see douglas trading back to 4 and then taking a wr, either smith or chase. that would really begin to put playmakers on this offense and in any such trade they'd get an extra high 2nd round pick, giving them another 1st, 2 2nds and at least 2 3rds.  and you have douglas who seems to have high confidence in his ability to draft.  douglas wants all those picks, he didn't trade adams and other vets to then have to pay watson while the rest of the roster is still very much below nfl average.

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6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

The Jets' biggest need is QB.  Watson is not overpriced.  

The Jets will get a WR better than Diggs in free agency with Watson here.  

They can also draft OL and a RB among their remaining picks. 

EDGE and CB will be harder to find without using first round pick(s), but for now, f**k defense.  You've been opposed to drafting an EDGE, and defense in general, for a while now but all of a sudden you're talking up the Bills defense?  Interesting.

Solid take, otherwise!

I have no interest in defense until they sort out the offense 

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6 minutes ago, football guy said:

At the end of the day, if the Jets draft a total of 6 1st round prospects, say 3 2nd round prospects, and 3 3rd round prospects over the next 2 drafts, you can put Sanchez in the lineup and the Jets should win 10 games a year. That’s how I think Joe Douglas is going to play it absent a Watson trade

So how would you grade JD’s draft last year. I know it’s early, and rookies had no camp... just looking at it cold stone evaluation. I give it a C. Maybe Davis and Mims, Perine, Zuniga and Clarke become solid players but after year 1? “Meh”

Are you confident that JD can get 6 top 15 starters at their respective positions to overlook the QB position? I’m not so sure. If he had 5 drafts under his belt and he drafts like Ozzie then yes, we can pass on Watson. 
Watson could take 2-3 years off a rebuild from Day 1. Instead of having to draft lights out, he takes the pressure off JD by only needing to hit at a 30% rate vs 65%. In my humble opinion 

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1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

I am curious as to the opinion of our Jet beat reporter @KRL 

Who are you hoping to cover this summer my friend? Watson, Darnold or a new rookie quarterback?

What Say You Season 6 GIF by The Office

I've made my opinions known in various posts but here they are:

- He's a fine young man with a good head on his shoulders but I'm
done with Darnold.  I would deal him and draft a QB at #2

- The Watson issue to me is all noise and no substance.  Something 
for the media to generate articles over but HOU holds all the cards
and doesn't have to deal him.  In addition I'm not in favor of
dealing all of our draft assets & cap space for a QB when we still
have holes in our roster.  I don't want to become like HOU or DET
with a high $$$ QB that generates stats but doesn't win.  As good
as Watson was last year HOU won 2 more games than the Jets

- With all that being said I believe Douglas/Saleh are going to keep
Darnold.  The offensive system and coaches brought in all scream
"we love Darnold".  So I think Douglas will deal the #2, pick get back
a massive haul and fill out the roster

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yes but Houston cares.  They're not just going to give him up for a 2nd round pick to Watson's first choice of destinations.  A trade will happen if Watson demands one, but it will be to a team that can afford his contract and can offer multiple firsts.  We check both boxes there.

Even in the NBA, where players' demands are appeased way more than the NFL, the Rockets got a LOT back for James Harden, after all.  Some even argue they got the far better end of the deal, even when Harden was in many ways holding the team hostage.

you made my point. Harden got a huge deal, why cant Watson get the same. he will. 

dont worry about Houston. there going to get alot for Watson. getting 4 1s and  a couple of 2s or 3 and 3 ( the deal i think it will take ) is not Houston getting robbed. thats a pretty damm good deal. better than 3 1s from the Jets.

that #2 that we think is so important is only as important as Houston feels about Fields or Wilson. if they dont like him. that pick isnt that big a deal. and i dont see the big deal about 2 first rds in the same year. who cares if they get a 1st rounder every year for the next 3 or 4 years. and that 2nd pick is 23? i would take my chances on not taking that and taking one in 2023 or 2024. you never know what could happened. Watson could be hurt, or other injuries that make us win 5 games. then that pick is in the teens. 

in all these big trades like Harden and Herschel players were included. the Nets sent 3 guys out, the Viking sent 5. all to make room for the contract. so if a team really wants him they can do some stuff to make room.  

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, KRL said:

- He's a fine young man with a good head on his shoulders but I'm
done with Darnold.  I would deal him and draft a QB at #2

47 minutes ago, KRL said:

- With all that being said I believe Douglas/Saleh are going to keep
Darnold.  The offensive system and coaches brought in all scream
"we love Darnold".  So I think Douglas will deal the #2, pick get back
a massive haul and fill out the roster

Thanks. Hoping there’s a normal camp this season for you to report from.

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2 hours ago, football guy said:

To answer your first part: I don’t think 3 1st round picks gets it done. I think that’s the starting point. I also think Deshaun has zero leverage... Houston’s back isn’t against the wall despite the ominous media narrative. If they want to trade him, they will. If they don’t, they won’t. Plain and simple. If they do make him available, we’re firmly in the mix because of the Capital we have, but I wouldn’t assume that puts us in front. I think the Texans would take less to move him out of the conference, and being that they’re in for a long rebuild they may prefer 3 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks from 2021-2024 from Carolina instead of 3 1st round picks from the Jets despite the fact that the Jets have #2 because of that desire to move him out of conference and the fact that the rebuild will be long, they’ll require quantity > quality, etc. It wouldn’t be the first time a team took less to trade a player out of conference...


 

To address your second point, Washington sent the Rams a massive haul despite knowing they wouldn’t take a QB; the Rams sent the Titans a massive haul despite knowing they wouldn’t take a QB; the Jets sent the Colts a massive haul despite knowing they wouldn’t take a QB. The reason teams trade up is pretty much a combination of 3 reasons: (1) they love the prospect; (2) they sense they’re only a player away from contending; and (3) they want to beat another team to the punch.  

Teams can’t be sure what Joe Douglas will do on draft day. They’ll speculate, but until the pick is in there’s always a possibility he’ll take a QB (see 2017 49ers-Bears trade)... it’s not like Darnold is Burrow; there’s definitely at least a possibility they’d take one. Second, if a team wants to be sure, they need to get to the highest pick available. If say Carolina prioritized negotiating with Miami at #3 and the Jets traded to Atlanta at #4, that team potentially loses their QB. Final reason, the demand for QBs is so high that a team may make a stupid decision, as Washington did in 2012.

Personally, I won’t be surprised if the Jets trade down twice to teams needing QBs, collect additional 2nd’s this year and future 1sts next. I think Douglas sees an opportunity to build a year-in, year-out winner regardless of the QB, and the best way to do it will be to stay disciplined and to not get blinded by the flashy QB prospects. At the end of the day, if the Jets draft a total of 6 1st round prospects, say 3 2nd round prospects, and 3 3rd round prospects over the next 2 drafts, you can put Sanchez in the lineup and the Jets should win 10 games a year. That’s how I think Joe Douglas is going to play it absent a Watson trade.

Thank you for providing a GM perspective

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56 minutes ago, Vader said:

Just 3 #1s for a HOF trending QB maybe not even in his prime and we keep Darnold... no brainer 

Agreed. We as a fan base must have come down with the Stockholm Syndrome where you become attached to your captors (Losing & Jet Mngmt) and defend them and desire to stay in captivity!!

I don’t understand it!

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12 hours ago, predator_05 said:

 

What's he ever done with Houston? Other than rack up meaningless stats. 

 

I don't get the love for Watson.

I get it, the Jets are like the desperate schlub at the bar, looking for some girl to go home with at 3 AM before closing time. But let's be honest, Watson isn't worth it. You're taking on a big contract and postponing a much needed rebuild so you can bust a quick nut 

Does Watson play defense?

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On 1/19/2021 at 8:21 PM, Jets Voice of Reason said:

my preference: 
1) Get Watson

2) get Fields and hope he’s the goods. 

What I think will happen:

We trade down and roll with Sam. Probably bring in one of the 49ers qbs and act like that’s legit vet competition. Act surprised when it doesn’t work out and hope there is a qb prospect we can trade up for in next year’s draft. 

That would be senseless since we're in prime position to take a QB prospect at #2.  It's a calculated risk you have to take. Trading back this year, only to trade back up next year doesn't guarantee you will get as good a prospect as Fields.

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6 hours ago, New York Mick said:

I have no interest in defense until they sort out the offense 

Lol. If Jets move on from Sam, when offense is rated higher than defense next year, there will be so much hatred thrown at the defense it will be crazy.

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12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

My point is that saying Watson isn't a "game changer" based on the 2020 Texans' W-L record is incredibly stupid.  

You're willfully ignoring both the W-L record of the 2018 and 2019 Texans as part of your extremely flawed analysis, as well as the contributions Watson made in the losing effort in 2020.

If you "are what your record says you are", then in addition to the 4-12 2020 season, you must also acknowledge his 10-6 and 11-5 records in the prior two seasons, his 2 division titles, and his playoff victory.

And my point is that wilfully ignoring his failure In 2020 is also incredibly stupid

you are desperate to avoid the elephant in the room, stick your fingers in your ears and la-la-la ....the original post I responded to was a grand statement that he’s “ a game changer...he changes games”...which is arrant nonsense because he very clearly doesn’t...not on his own at any rate, which is not actually a criticism of Watson, or shouldn’t be seen exclusively as, because I don’t think there’s a single QB in the game who does that.

Some People may think Brady off f the back of this season but he went from Belichick to an offensive guru in Arians with an already very talented Bucs team. But even guys like Rodgers have had 3-13 seasons, Stafford, Luck, Rivers....all great QB’s but barely a playoff appearance between them. Matt Ryan only made it to a Super Bowl surrounded by a top 10 defense and guys like Julio Jones, otherwise, not much.

The problem is less Watson, and more about the blind assumption that throwing all our draft capital at 1 player, even a QB, is somehow changing everything, that he’ll turn it around all on his own, we have very clear proof from the 2020 season that thinking that way is foolish. The problem is the prevailing assumption that we are a QB away...we are not.

I’ve head the argument “if we get Watson, he instantly makes us a contender” except he doesn’t, because he didn’t do that in Houston, and they are in better shape than we are so why would he magically turn our crappy roster into a playoff contender?

Is it imperative we get the right guy behind centre?....absolutely, but not at all costs...that’s Maccagnan level thinking, panicking and ploughing our hard earned resources into Watson or any other QB not only make sense if there’s a plan behind it to build a supporting cast to help him, Watson will need a lot of help, as you’ve inadvertently admitted he can’t do it on his own

We need to see the 2020 season for what it is, a useful reminder that all the fancy stat padding and nice FF numbers in the world mean nothing in the win loss column. Watson’s performance in the  2020 season is by far the most relevant reference because it’s the most recent example, absolutely everyone is quoting the Watson of 2020 in their reasons as to why we should give up huge amounts of draft capital, not to mention the colossal contract and the fact he’s now a known malcontent, to get him.  the previous seasons are to all intents and purposes irrelevant in the context of this discussion because the Texans were an entirely different team, the context is entirely changed.

Of course you are desperate to blame the rest of the Houston organisation for that pathetic 4 win season and it was only the heroic Deshaun that dragged them to those 4 wins but somehow, amazingly....it was Deshaun alone who takes the credit for previous winning seasons..convenient, but ludicrous .....is it a team game or not?

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1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

Or if they put a good team and coaching around him and he plays better they will too. I gladly welcome that. One step at a time. 

Seems we agree the offense is a competent QB away from being not embarrassing. 

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9 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

I will be curious to see how Saleh and JD handle the Watson question tomorrow. Obviously they can’t tamper, but I’ll be looking to see how the #2 pick and Sam questions are answered. Their answers could shed light on how they view Sam and a rookie Qb.

Saleh knows what he’s doing he will say the right things

 

What a great hire.  It’s not a coincidence that as soon as we hire Saleh suddenly all these guys Watson, Robinson and Sherman want to come here 

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Here's the rub folks. Just imagine a world where you have a disgruntled QB, no cap dollars, no draft picks, and your pretty much f*cked for the next 2 years & a new GM coming in & the Jets offer you 3 #1 picks & Sam Darnold? including #2 this year where you could trade out & obtain more picks but what all of you are saying is WHY WOULD THEY WANT SAM DARNOLD? 

Think about that!!! WHY DO WE WANT SAM DARNOLD THEN? 

If Houston doesn't want 3 firsts & a really young QB with 3 years experience why the hell is Sam Darnold an option for us here? Basically, your swapping everything the Jets have now (Darnold & picks). 

So which team is more stupid? Houston for not wanting picks + Darnold or the Jets wanting to KEEP Darnold & build around him with draft picks? 

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My preference:

1) Deshaun Watson - No brainer really, guy is a stud on the field and a good character off the field. The big question is if Houston trades him and for how much, I get the feeling they will hire Bienemy and roll out all the stops to get him to stay.

2) Draft Wilson at #2 and draft as many offensive players as we can the rest of the draft. Im not against Fields in general but from what I gather Wilson seems to fit Shanahan WCO better.

3) Trade down a few spots and get Chase or Smith at WR, use the rest of the picks on offensive and see if Sam Darnold can suck any less in the Shanahan offense.

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IF the Texans could be convinced to take #1's in 2021, 2022 and 2023, but the #1 in 2021 is Seattle's, that would be most awesome. And yes, I get fairly unlikely. But what if the Jets sweetened it a little with a 2nd rounder this year?

2021 ex Seattle #1 pick, 2nd rounder from Jets (fairly high)

2022 Jets #1 (Texans bank on Jets being worse than Seattle, pick mid first round)

2023 Jets #1

Jets keep 2nd overall, JD trades back, recoups some picks, maybe replaces 2023 #1 immediately

Watson, sign the best possible receiver that makes sense playing with Mims and Crowder, sign best offensive lineman possible, draft a C if the right one is available in the 2nd round .

Cheaper FA signings on a RB by committee kind of guy

Use the draft and cheaper FA signings to build out the depth, fill obvious positions of need. 

 

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What about E) None of the Above.  I have changed my tune on perhaps giving three first round picks, and think the following could be done

2021: 1st round pick (#23),  Sam Darnold

2022: 1st round pick (ours not Seattle's), 

2023: 1st round pick

You could perhaps throw in a 2nd rounder in there, probably this year.  But there is NO way you give up the #2 pick, which can then be used to replenish all that you have given up.  

The Texans get Darnold who holds the fort for a year, and then the Texans have two firsts in 2022 to go and get their guy.  They need a MASSIVE rebuild, like we are under.  Its amazing: how bad Mac was for us, O'Brien was worse for them.

 

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8 minutes ago, thebuzzardman said:

IF the Texans could be convinced to take #1's in 2021, 2022 and 2023, but the #1 in 2021 is Seattle's, that would be most awesome. And yes, I get fairly unlikely. But what if the Jets sweetened it a little with a 2nd rounder this year?

2021 ex Seattle #1 pick, 2nd rounder from Jets (fairly high)

2022 Jets #1 (Texans bank on Jets being worse than Seattle, pick mid first round)

2023 Jets #1

Jets keep 2nd overall, JD trades back, recoups some picks, maybe replaces 2023 #1 immediately

Watson, sign the best possible receiver that makes sense playing with Mims and Crowder, sign best offensive lineman possible, draft a C if the right one is available in the 2nd round .

Cheaper FA signings on a RB by committee kind of guy

Use the draft and cheaper FA signings to build out the depth, fill obvious positions of need. 

 

Huh, its like we were reading each other's minds.

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33 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Here's the rub folks. Just imagine a world where you have a disgruntled QB, no cap dollars, no draft picks, and your pretty much f*cked for the next 2 years & a new GM coming in & the Jets offer you 3 #1 picks & Sam Darnold? including #2 this year where you could trade out & obtain more picks but what all of you are saying is WHY WOULD THEY WANT SAM DARNOLD? 

Think about that!!! WHY DO WE WANT SAM DARNOLD THEN? 

If Houston doesn't want 3 firsts & a really young QB with 3 years experience why the hell is Sam Darnold an option for us here? Basically, your swapping everything the Jets have now (Darnold & picks). 

So which team is more stupid? Houston for not wanting picks + Darnold or the Jets wanting to KEEP Darnold & build around him with draft picks? 

Hmm....We don't know what Houston wants?

It seems there is plenty of discussion around the NFL that Sam Darnold isn't as bad as Jets fans think he is, so he might very well warrant consideration in a deal involving Watson.  But we just don't know because we are not privy to their depends.

 

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50 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

I honestly don't understand the folks who want to trade out of #2 and accumulate more picks?! We need a Qb.... whether that is Fields, Wilson or Watson. You don't dick around at QB. If they are rolling with Sam then pick your player at #2 & #23 

We do not have to get the QB this year, there is no law that says we have to move on from darnold, or look for a vet as a short term get.

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3 hours ago, redlichtie said:

And my point is that wilfully ignoring his failure In 2020 is also incredibly stupid

you are desperate to avoid the elephant in the room, stick your fingers in your ears and la-la-la ....the original post I responded to was a grand statement that he’s “ a game changer...he changes games”...which is arrant nonsense because he very clearly doesn’t...not on his own at any rate, which is not actually a criticism of Watson, or shouldn’t be seen exclusively as, because I don’t think there’s a single QB in the game who does that.

Some People may think Brady off f the back of this season but he went from Belichick to an offensive guru in Arians with an already very talented Bucs team. But even guys like Rodgers have had 3-13 seasons, Stafford, Luck, Rivers....all great QB’s but barely a playoff appearance between them. Matt Ryan only made it to a Super Bowl surrounded by a top 10 defense and guys like Julio Jones, otherwise, not much.

The problem is less Watson, and more about the blind assumption that throwing all our draft capital at 1 player, even a QB, is somehow changing everything, that he’ll turn it around all on his own, we have very clear proof from the 2020 season that thinking that way is foolish. The problem is the prevailing assumption that we are a QB away...we are not.

I’ve head the argument “if we get Watson, he instantly makes us a contender” except he doesn’t, because he didn’t do that in Houston, and they are in better shape than we are so why would he magically turn our crappy roster into a playoff contender?

Is it imperative we get the right guy behind centre?....absolutely, but not at all costs...that’s Maccagnan level thinking, panicking and ploughing our hard earned resources into Watson or any other QB not only make sense if there’s a plan behind it to build a supporting cast to help him, Watson will need a lot of help, as you’ve inadvertently admitted he can’t do it on his own

We need to see the 2020 season for what it is, a useful reminder that all the fancy stat padding and nice FF numbers in the world mean nothing in the win loss column. Watson’s performance in the  2020 season is by far the most relevant reference because it’s the most recent example, absolutely everyone is quoting the Watson of 2020 in their reasons as to why we should give up huge amounts of draft capital, not to mention the colossal contract and the fact he’s now a known malcontent, to get him.  the previous seasons are to all intents and purposes irrelevant in the context of this discussion because the Texans were an entirely different team, the context is entirely changed.

Of course you are desperate to blame the rest of the Houston organisation for that pathetic 4 win season and it was only the heroic Deshaun that dragged them to those 4 wins but somehow, amazingly....it was Deshaun alone who takes the credit for previous winning seasons..convenient, but ludicrous .....is it a team game or not?

 

No position on the field can turn things around as quickly as an elite QB.  You just wrote an essay to try to suggest otherwise, and its kind of silly.  Deshaun Watson is indeed a game changer, because he's a top 5 QB, and you can't win a Super Bowl without an elite QB.  Just because the Texans failed in 2020 doesn't change this.  How can you NOT blame the organization for their failure last season?  They traded away arguably the best WR in the game for peanuts before the season, and their defense allowed 29 points per game.  They alienated their QB and now he seemingly wants out. 

So, yes, bottom line, the Texans suck and Watson is awesome.  What happened in Houston wouldn't happen here, at least not to the extent that it's happened there.  They have a con-man in the owner's ear, running sh*t into the ground over there.  Joe Douglas, for all the legitimate complaints about some of his moves last offseason, is at least competent.

And meanwhile, it's indeed possible to have a QB AND a solid roster and coaching staff around him.  This isn't rocket science.  Watson/Saleh/Douglas would make a solid trio that gives this franchise a lot of hope for the future.

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3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

We do not have to get the QB this year, there is no law that says we have to move on from darnold, or look for a vet as a short term get.

There's no law, no, but it would be nice to try hard to find one, given that we haven't had one for about 50 years.  I guess we're not allowed to have nice things though.  

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