Put Your Name to the Watson/Darnold/Draft Qb Dilemna!

[Beerfish]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

4,800 passing yards, 70% completion rate, 30+ TD's, >10 INT's on a bad team in a down year.

"Failure".

4 of the top 8 passers in the league this past year missed the playoffs.

[redlichtie]

42 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

No position on the field can turn things around as quickly as an elite QB.  You just wrote an essay to try to suggest otherwise, and its kind of silly.  Deshaun Watson is indeed a game changer, because he's a top 5 QB, and you can't win a Super Bowl without an elite QB.  Just because the Texans failed in 2020 doesn't change this.  How can you NOT blame the organization for their failure last season?  They traded away arguably the best WR in the game for peanuts before the season, and their defense allowed 29 points per game.  They alienated their QB and now he seemingly wants out. 

So, yes, bottom line, the Texans suck and Watson is awesome.  What happened in Houston wouldn't happen here, at least not to the extent that it's happened there.  They have a con-man in the owner's ear, running sh*t into the ground over there.  Joe Douglas, for all the legitimate complaints about some of his moves last offseason, is at least competent.

And meanwhile, it's indeed possible to have a QB AND a solid roster and coaching staff around him.  This isn't rocket science.  Watson/Saleh/Douglas would make a solid trio that gives this franchise a lot of hope for the future.

Absolutely nobody is suggesting that having an ‘elite’ QB wouldn’t be a nice thing to have. Sorry if an essay is too much for you, I’ll dumb it down to your level in future.

There’s nothing else I can help you with, have good day and enjoy the press conference and hopefully the start of an exciting new era under Robert Saleh. I’ll be happy to join you in celebrating winning Jets football in future whoever the QB is.

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Yep, you said it 

I think your definition of failure may be questionable.

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

4 of the top 8 passers in the league this past year missed the playoffs.

And?

How many of the bottom 8 passers made the playoffs?

[jgb]

16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

4,800 passing yards, 70% completion rate, 30+ TD's, >10 INT's on a bad team in a down year.

"Failure".

“Any QB will fail with Jets weaponz! A FQB would be a waste here because the team stinks.”

”The Texans bad record falls squarely on their QB’s feet.”

The knots the pro-Darnold squad twists themselves into are impressive and cheaper then a Cirque de Soleil ticket.

[thebuzzardman]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Huh, its like we were reading each other's minds.

You may have posted it, so kudos if you did. Since there's a dozen topics on this and I skip around, it's possible I read it and didn't realize it. 

[peekskill68]

17 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How about this:  In 3 of the Texans' losses, they put up over 30 points (38, 36, 31).  The defense allowed 41, 42, and 37 points in those games, respectively.  Guess that was all Deshaun's fault though.  Shame on him for not being a game changer there!

Using your logic, and seeing the points differential given up by the Defense in 2019 vs. 2020,  JD was a dope for not getting more in the Jamal trade...

[chirorob]

27 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

4 of the top 8 passers in the league this past year missed the playoffs.

Passing yards is not the best stat to guage a QB.

Teams that are losing tend to pass more.   Teams that are losing big tend to get prevent defenses.   Of course, that makes Sam look even worse.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Using your logic, and seeing the points differential given up by the Defense in 2019 vs. 2020,  JD was a dope for not getting more in the Jamal trade...

Yes because QB's and Box Safeties impact the game exactly the same.  You nailed it there!

[ZachEY]

32 minutes ago, Warfish said:

4,800 passing yards, 70% completion rate, 30+ TD's, >10 INT's on a bad team in a down year.

"Failure".

The problem with Watson is that he proves that a QB can do well on a bad team, and that really ****s up the Sam Darnold "It's all Todd Bowles/Adam Gase/Offensive Line/Weaponzzzz" narrative.

[Jetsfan80]

32 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Absolutely nobody is suggesting that having an ‘elite’ QB wouldn’t be a nice thing to have.

Then what exactly was the point of all that?  You should be right there with me hoping the Jets acquire Watson.  lmao.

2 years from now (or less) no one would give two sh*ts about how much the Jets gave up to get Watson, if it happened.  Odds are you'd never get enough talent with those picks to match what Watson brings to the table in the end.

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Using absolutely no logic, and seeing the points differential given up by the Defense in 2019 vs. 2020,  JD was a dope for not getting more in the Jamal trade...

fixed.

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

The problem with Watson is that he proves that a QB can do well on a bad team, and that really ****s up the Sam Darnold "It's all Todd Bowles/Adam Gase/Offensive Line/Weaponzzzz" narrative.

We all want a QB who is:

1. Young

2. Cheap

3. Can put up Top-5 Production

We can have two of those things, and the cheap isn't really an issue because we have no high priced talent.

Watson is a sure thing, he produces.

Drafting a QB is a crapshoot, they could be Darnold.

I guess it comes down to your faith in BOTH the available prospects AND JD's ability to draft the right ones.

If you believe that 1. Fields/Wilson is as good, immediately, as Watson and 2. JD will Draft Fields/Wilson at #2 and 3. JD will ALSO draft great starters with the other #1's traded away, then ok, I can understand not wanting to make the trade.

So is that what anti-Watson folks believe:  That Fields (or Wilson) is 100% as good as Watson, will produce in 2021 and beyond equally to Watson, and that JD will also draft great players with the 2022 and 2023 #1's?

[peekskill68]

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes because QB's and Box Safeties impact the game exactly the same.  You nailed it there!

Never said that bro.  Just pointing out your logic is flawed.  Using points scored and blaming the defense for losses is the same as using points allowed and blaming the offense. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Never said that bro.  Just pointing out your logic is flawed.  Using points scored and blaming the defense for losses is the same as using points allowed and blaming the offense. 

Jamal Adams was on a defense that allowed 29 points per game.

Deshaun Watson was on an offense that scored 24 points per game.

Nothing about your point makes any sense.  

[New York Mick]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

Seems we agree the offense is a competent QB away from being not embarrassing. 

Let’s see what happens without Gase and numbnuts designing and calling plays 

[peekskill68]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Jamal Adams was on a defense that allowed 29 points per game.

Deshaun Watson was on an offense that scored 24 points per game.

Nothing about your point makes any sense.  

To justify your trading multiple #1 picks for Watson you brought up the subject of his Houston production/points scored as a way to defend his 4-12 record.  Using your same logic, the Jets traded Jamal for two late round ones, a three and McDougland and the D gave up 100 points more in 2020 vs. 2019.  How much of that is Jamal?  All of it?  Some of it? None of it?  If Fields or Wilson starts for Houston in 2020 instead of Watson, how many fewer points would they have scored?  It's not about valuing a FQB vs. a box safety.  It's about the impact that Watson has vs. an alternative QB in the same spot and Jamal has vs. an alternative safety.  My point is I think points scored is a flawed process to evaluate Watson.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

To justify your trading multiple #1 picks for Watson you brought up the subject of his Houston production/points scored as a way to defend his 4-12 record.  Using your same logic, the Jets traded Jamal for two late round ones, a three and McDougland and the D gave up 100 points more in 2020 vs. 2019.  How much of that is Jamal?  All of it?  Some of it? None of it?  If Fields or Wilson starts for Houston in 2020 instead of Watson, how many fewer points would they have scored?  It's not about valuing a FQB vs. a box safety.  It's about the impact that Watson has vs. an alternative QB in the same spot and Jamal has vs. an alternative safety.  My point is I think points scored is a flawed process to evaluate Watson.

Points scored was used to show that Watson did his job and the defense did not.  This is more than relevant, because people want to argue that Watson was a big reason the team went 4-12.  He was not.  He performed great last season, however one wants to spin things.

In Seattle's case, the Wilson-led offense did its job and the Adams-led defense did not.

Watson performed about as well as Wilson.  One made the playoffs, the other didn't.  That does not somehow negate Watson's performance last season.  It suggests that Watson is a playoff-caliber QB whose team (primarily the defense) had a bad season.

The anti-Watson crowd keeps shouting "4-12!  4-12!"  But the minute one points out that the previous 2 seasons, the Texans went 10-6 and 11-5, respectively, with 2 division titles and a playoff win, they either go silent or suggest that only 2020 matters because it was most recent. 

Watson's play did not drop off from 2018-19 to 2020.  And it's extra impressive that it didn't considering the team traded away arguably the best WR in football prior to the season for almost nothing.  The anti-Watson crowd can't even argue that Hopkins made Watson anymore, so they default to the silly W-L record argument.

[peekskill68]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Points scored was used to show that Watson did his job and the defense did not.  This is more than relevant, because people want to argue that Watson was a big reason the team went 4-12.  He was not.  He performed great last season, however one wants to spin things.

In Seattle's case, the Wilson-led offense did its job and the Adams-led defense did not.

Watson performed about as well as Wilson.  One made the playoffs, the other didn't.  That does not somehow negate Watson's performance last season.  It suggests that Watson is a playoff-caliber QB whose team (primarily the defense) had a bad season.

The anti-Watson crowd keeps shouting "4-12!  4-12!"  But the minute one points out that the previous 2 seasons, the Texans went 10-6 and 11-5, respectively, with 2 division titles and a playoff win, they either go silent or suggest that only 2020 matters because it was most recent. 

Watson's play did not drop off from 2018-19 to 2020.  And it's extra impressive that it didn't considering the team traded away arguably the best WR in football prior to the season for almost nothing.  The anti-Watson crowd can't even argue that Hopkins made Watson anymore, so they default to the silly W-L record argument.

Fair enough.  You have a right to be enthusiastic for Watson.  He's a FQB. I guess I have a right to think people are underestimating the alternatives available to JD and are undervaluing the #2 draft slot in a year where several "built to win now" teams have QB problems...

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Fair enough.  You have a right to be enthusiastic for Watson.  He's a FQB. I guess I have a right to think people are underestimating the alternatives available to JD and are undervaluing the #2 draft slot in a year where several "built to win now" teams have QB problems...

I get that the # 2 pick has value and all that.  Trading down is indeed intriguing.  But eventually the Jets are going to need to find a QB.  Kicking the can down the road with that decision will only lead to frustration.  And if we trade down this year, a year later we may well be looking to trade right back up again to get a QB.

We're 50 years and counting on having a true franchise QB.  Watson, if available, would represent the only time in NFL history where a ready-made, young franchise QB can be traded for.  And in that instance you have to go after him aggressively.  @Mogglez has already reported that the Jets absolutely are interested in Watson, so clearly Douglas seems to see things that way, too.  In which case, we'll still be talking about the value of that # 2 pick as part of a trade.  Maybe Douglas can work some magic, and the # 2 pick and one of the Seattle picks will be all that is required to get Watson.  Who knows.

[rayzor]

Pretty surprising it's neck and neck for drafting Wilson/Fields vs keeping Darnold.  Do people get that it's not easy to be in position to get a top 2 QB in the draft?  And how costly it can be just to move up a few spots?  Like the 3 2nd's we paid  just to move up 3 spots??

[peekskill68]

6 minutes ago, rayzor said:

Pretty surprising it's neck and neck for drafting Wilson/Fields vs keeping Darnold.  Do people get that it's not easy to be in position to get a top 2 QB in the draft?  And how costly it can be just to move up a few spots?  Like the 3 2nd's we paid  just to move up 3 spots??

Agree and think this is one of the key points some of us have been trying to make.  There is a huge value difference between any 1st round pick and THE #2 SLOT INA YEAR WHERE THE CAP IS GOING DOWN AND SEVERAL VERY GOOD TEAMS NEED A QB WHILE IN CAP HELL.  

[Jetster]

4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Jamarr Chase (or Devonta smith or Kyle Pitts or Zac Wilson)

Jaycee Horn (or Gregory Rousseau)

Najee Harris

Wyatt Davis

2022 1st round pick

2022 4th round pick

For

Deshaun Watson

Why are you saying #2, #23, #34? There is no way in hell the Jets are trading ALL of their picks. Won't happen.

[32EBoozer]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Then what exactly was the point of all that?  You should be right there with me hoping the Jets acquire Watson.  lmao.

2 years from now (or less) no one would give two sh*ts about how much the Jets gave up to get Watson, if it happened.  Odds are you'd never get enough talent with those picks to match what Watson brings to the table in the end.

Opportunity Costs..... that is what we need to evaluate! Is the cost to install a top 5 QB on a reasonable contract for the next 4 years of greater value than the picks (unknown variable) given up to acquire a player of that stature. 

JD/Saleh cannot seriously look at that equation and not realize that D. Watson is worth that cost. Saves the coach and the GM from the scrutiny they will be subjected to if the picks that would have been used on a known commodity(Watson) don't work out. It will be their Waterloo if Watson goes on to star elsewhere and JD's picks become average NFL players (JAGS). NY media and fan base will explode with thunderous joy. JD and Saleh can concern themselves with getting the rest of the FA/draft picks who would best support our best player.

[Seibelt]

On 1/20/2021 at 3:47 PM, redlichtie said:

Talk us through all those games he changed last year...go on....talk us through all 4 of them 

Watson is an elite QB, I think there is enough proof that you would agree with that.

Did you watch the playoffs last year when Houston played Buffalo? I will admit I only watch the Jets and look to other games for Fantasy Football stats but watching that game alone made me realize I wish we had a QB that can say "Hold my beer and watch this."

We have not had that in a long time. That is what I mean by a Game Changer.

[jetlaw]

I’d draft Fields and sit him for a year so he can get fully familiar with the west coast system which is not easy to learn. Then you still have the 2 Seattle picks and the jets own future picks to build a team.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[32EBoozer]

Well after 2 days we have a clear #1 choice...... Go Get Watson!!

[32EBoozer]

Based off the Mock Draft with Watson I may have to include this as a new poll option! LOL

 

 

[Warfish]

13 hours ago, jetlaw said:

I’d draft Fields and sit him for a year so he can get fully familiar with the west coast system which is not easy to learn. Then you still have the 2 Seattle picks and the jets own future picks to build a team.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Who is playing QB for you in 2021 then?  Darnold?

And you're ok with a 50/50 (or worse) chance that Fields is a bust like Darnold?

So under your plan, you'll be ok if/when we lose 10 games under Darnold, and may be in this same spot again in 3-4 years?

[redlichtie]

18 hours ago, Seibelt said:

Watson is an elite QB, I think there is enough proof that you would agree with that.

Did you watch the playoffs last year when Houston played Buffalo? I will admit I only watch the Jets and look to other games for Fantasy Football stats but watching that game alone made me realize I wish we had a QB that can say "Hold my beer and watch this."

We have not had that in a long time. That is what I mean by a Game Changer.

Right!... so you never watch the Texans other than a playoff game ages ago but you know he’s a ‘game changer, who changes games’ because your Fantasy Football says so?

OK, thanks for clarifying

[32EBoozer]

4 hours ago, redlichtie said:

Right!... so you never watch the Texans other than a playoff game ages ago but you know he’s a ‘game changer, who changes games’ because your Fantasy Football says so?

OK, thanks for clarifying

How many Texan games have you watched the past 2 years. At least FF provides stats to review. I’m sure his film backs up his talent. 

[Seibelt]

6 hours ago, redlichtie said:

Right!... so you never watch the Texans other than a playoff game ages ago but you know he’s a ‘game changer, who changes games’ because your Fantasy Football says so?

OK, thanks for clarifying

Ages ago? Am I arguing with a 12 year old?

Well I guess you win, Watson is just slightly better than Darnold and the college prospects are worth the scratch off tickets we possess.

 

[Wonderboy]

On 1/19/2021 at 8:45 PM, Spoot-Face said:

Me reading all the people who don't want to trade for Watson:

 

[Dunnie]

My preference...

Wilson

... would prefer trade down and take him.

Think ... Watson ... just have a gut feeling... it will handcuff this team for a decade... it's what we were cut out for..

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Seibelt]

10 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

My preference...

Wilson

... would prefer trade down and take him.

Think ... Watson ... just have a gut feeling... it will handcuff this team for a decade... it's what we were cut out for..

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Yep, and that’s what we should avoid. Pay a premium but not destroy our resources. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.