ESPN Article: Texans in No-Win Situation

[bitonti]

[Philc1]

5 hours ago, football guy said:

I do agree you don't want to fill your team with disgruntled players, but it's pretty clear that Deshaun is better than Jay or Jeff ever were. Personally I would bank on his talent, skill set, intangibles, competitiveness, and leadership and hedge that if he shows up he's going to give full effort for his coaches and teammates if not for the organization. 

My read on it: 

The Texans are going to hire Bieniemy or another minority HC for all the wrong reasons: to appease Deshaun and make him feel heard, to appease the talking heads, to regain credibility among the league... essentially damage control. Then, the ball returns to Deshaun's court. If they hire Bieniemy and Deshaun's still pouting, what becomes the narrative? That he's a diva, and he wants to avoid that. 

Then, the team will try to air the grievances, sell him on the fact that they didn't want to exclude him rather just needed to establish a process, all the while knowing that Deshaun's true grievances are less about the politics and more about getting the hell out of dodge because the Texans status among the NFL (black sheep, dysfunctional, need to rebuild). That's where the new coach is going to have to come in and sell him on the fact that things may be tough, but that they need to work together, embrace being underdogs, and that they can win now because of Deshaun. Typical coach speak. Watson will likely buy in to this, albeit reluctantly, get back to work and put this behind him. 

In 2 years, when Caserio has reset the aging roster and enters 2023 with a trove of draft picks, financial flexibility, and a 27 year old franchise QB, they'll fire the underperforming coaching staff and be in position to hire a top coach and return to contention. Maybe it will be Josh McDaniels, maybe Jerod Mayo. Who knows. But Deshaun will buy-in because there will be a light at the end of the tunnel... and that's what I think this is about, more so than any other narrative out there 

I’ve seen better players than Watson coast during regular season games to get out of town

[Jetsfan80]

16 hours ago, HighPitch said:

Deshawn watson=fools gold

have ye learned nothing from the past?

build from the draft for once. We are in an amazing position to do that right now

 

So Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith, Christian Hackenberg and Sam Darnold weren't "fool's gold"?

In my view, acquiring Watson would actually be the Jets doing a great job of learning from the past.  It would be the Jets acknowledging that evaluating college QB prospects is highly difficult, and instead going for a sure thing at the most important position on the field.

Besides, there's no historical comparison to be made for this.  A young franchise QB has never come available via trade before.  So there's nothing to learn from there.

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

So Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith, Christian Hackenberg and Sam Darnold weren't "fool's gold"?

In my view, acquiring Watson would actually be the Jets doing a great job of learning from the past.  

Besides, there's no historical comparison to be made for this.  So there's nothing to learn from.

Trading 5x first round picks for Watson is the next great Jet debacle

[Jetsfan80]

14 hours ago, football guy said:

This whole notion that Deshaun has leverage is laughable. David Mulugheta probably paying people to spread that narrative at this point. 

Only time Deshaun has leverage is when the Texans make the decision to trade him, and they won’t make that decision unless they determine it’s the best move for the franchise moving forward.

If he were to sit out, the Texans can fine him $40,000 a day and withhold game checks — amassing like $15 million dollars for the season, not including the signing bonus money they would go after. 

Yet nearly every single time a player has demanded a trade, in any sport (including the NFL), a trade has happened.  

No one actually lets a player "rot", even if the financials of the situation suggest that's the best move.

Watson absolutely has leverage here.  The primary one being that Houston's backup QB is AJ McCarron, and the team has no ability to upgrade there without trading Watson for capital.  They're currently $18M over the cap and would need a QB from the draft.

Should Watson demand a trade, it will happen prior to the 2021 draft.  Bank on it.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Trading 5x first round picks for Watson is the next great Jet debacle

I love how the anti Watson side feels the need to pump up the price to absurd levels to try to make their case. Robby all over again “He ain’t worth $18M/yr!”

[Jetsfan80]

7 hours ago, football guy said:

I understand the reference all too well lol. However in the Texans situation, this also allows the fan base to grow animosity towards the player/make them more OK with him being traded, and the team accomplishes the tank all the while. Multiple angles to view it from, but I don’t see a trade happening; all of this is media driven

It doesn't matter which direction PR shifts on this one.  The Texans will still be the ones left with AJ McCarron at QB and no 1st round pick if they opt not to move him prior to the draft.  In the end, the Texans are the biggest losers no matter what.  

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

I love how the anti Watson side feels the need to pump up the price to absurd levels to try to make their case. Robby all over again “He ain’t worth $18M/yr!”

Not anti Watson I’m just not pro let’s do a Brooklyn Nets/Kevin Garnett style of trade

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Not anti Watson I’m just not pro let’s do a Brooklyn Nets/Kevin Garnett style of trade

5 first round picks? C’mon dawg.

[dcJet]

I don't see a trade now.  We should have seen a public trade demand from Watson by now.  

Texans owner apologized and is sleeping on the couch.  In another couple of days, he'll be allowed upstairs again.

[Beerfish]

15 minutes ago, jgb said:

I love how the anti Watson side feels the need to pump up the price to absurd levels to try to make their case. Robby all over again “He ain’t worth $18M/yr!”

The 2nd overall pick is worth 3 1st round picks plus a 2nd if you trade down to seattle 1st round pick level.  People want to give up two more 1st rounders to go along with  the #2 overall.

Thus the 5 first round picks plus a 2nd is a valid comment, value wise.

As for pumping up value people that want to make the trade are minimizing the value of  2nd overall pick in a draft by lumping it in with other 1st rounders of lower value or unknown value.

 

[dcJet]

12 hours ago, tfine said:

Don’t want Watson....build the team through the draft....this is not 2008 when we were a QB away from playoffs


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

The three draft picks don't accomplish the team building as much as Watson does.

Watson alone, builds us better than the last three draft picks. (Genold, Quinnen and Mehki)

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The 2nd overall pick is worth 3 1st round picks plus a 2nd if you trade down to seattle 1st round pick level.  People want to give up two more 1st rounders to go along with  the #2 overall.

Thus the 5 first round picks plus a 2nd is a valid comment, value wise.

As for pumping up value people that want to make the trade are minimizing the value of  2nd overall pick in a draft by lumping it in with other 1st rounders of lower value or unknown value.

 

If we are going to play that game then I raise you that whatever picks we would use to draft/trade up for a QB this year or next shouldn’t count in a trade for Watson.

No, I think it’s better to use words as they are intended.

[Jetsfan80]

31 minutes ago, dcJet said:

I don't see a trade now.  We should have seen a public trade demand from Watson by now.  

Texans owner apologized and is sleeping on the couch.  In another couple of days, he'll be allowed upstairs again.

Will apologies get DeAndre Hopkins back?  Will it make JJ Watt happy?  Will it get the GM fired?   Will it get that con man in the organization fired?  Will it get the owner to sell the team? 

These issues run deep for Watson.

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Will apologies get DeAndre Hopkins back?  Will it get the GM fired?   Will it get the owner to sell the team?

These issues run deep for Watson.

I am also skeptical that he is traded. Texans have a massive incentive to bend the knee here. Will it be enough? Dunno.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

I am also skeptical that he is traded. Texans have a massive incentive to bend the knee here. Will it be enough? Dunno.

It's probably more likely he's a Texan in 2021 than he is playing for any other team.  But people seem to think a couple simple steps, like an apology and hiring Bieniemy, will be all it takes to appease Watson.  It won't.  There are things that have been done in that org that can't easily be undone.  

[Wit]

37 minutes ago, dcJet said:

I don't see a trade now.  We should have seen a public trade demand from Watson by now.  

Texans owner apologized and is sleeping on the couch.  In another couple of days, he'll be allowed upstairs again.

I agree with this. Watson will be appeased. 

[dcJet]

Apology plus some front office actions plus some success will clear it up.

For it to happen, this thing needs to go to the next step soon - a public demand for trade, or my fingertips are going to get worn off.

[football guy]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yet nearly every single time a player has demanded a trade, in any sport (including the NFL), a trade has happened.  

No one actually lets a player "rot", even if the financials of the situation suggest that's the best move.

Watson absolutely has leverage here.  The primary one being that Houston's backup QB is AJ McCarron, and the team has no ability to upgrade there without trading Watson for capital.  They're currently $18M over the cap and would need a QB from the draft.

Should Watson demand a trade, it will happen prior to the 2021 draft.  Bank on it.

Name them, because off the top of my head there are more times than not where a player wants a trade and ends up not getting traded. 

Recent NBA history is not an accurate depiction of what happens typically, especially in the NFL. 

[carlito1171]

1 hour ago, dcJet said:

I don't see a trade now.  We should have seen a public trade demand from Watson by now.  

Texans owner apologized and is sleeping on the couch.  In another couple of days, he'll be allowed upstairs again.

Not necessarily....

Lets see the HC hire first....the longer this drags on the more I think they’re waiting for Bieniemy. Was Daboll interviewed?

[Jetsfan80]

52 minutes ago, football guy said:

Name them, because off the top of my head there are more times than not where a player wants a trade and ends up not getting traded. 

Recent NBA history is not an accurate depiction of what happens typically, especially in the NFL. 

Gladly.

• Jamal Adams (2020, NYJ-SEA)
• Yannick Ngakoue (2020, JAC-MIN)
• Trent Williams (2020, WAS-SF)
• Emmanuel Sanders (2019, DEN-SF)
• Jalen Ramsey (2019, JAX-STL)
• Antonio Brown (2019, OAK-PIT)
• Carson Palmer (2011, CIN-OAK)
• Jay Cutler (2009, DEN-CHI)
• Brett Favre (2008, GB-NYJ)
• Randy Moss (2005, MIN-OAK)
• Jerry Rice (2004, OAK-SEA)
• Eli Manning (2004, SD-NYG)
• Marshall Faulk (1999, IND-STL)
• Jerome Bettis (1996, STL-PIT)
• Joe Montana (1993, SF-KC)
• Eric Dickerson (1987, LAR-IND)
• John Elway (1983, BAL-DEN)

Note that 6 of the players on the above list were QB's.

And he never demanded a trade, but Khalil Mack was traded from the Raiders to the Bears in 2018 after forcing the front office's hand.  He demanded an extension prior to the season.  The Raiders traded him instead.

Brandon Marshall also was traded in 2009 after voicing his displeasure with the Broncos.  He was shipped off to Miami.  

Keenan McCardell held out prior to the 2004 season, and was traded from the Bucs to the Chargers.

[static14]

If Watson stays in Houston he’s going back to a team that will be worse in 2021 than they were in 2020. They’re going to have to cut good players just to have enough money to pay the kids they draft. 18 million over the cap is a horrible place to be.

So aside from his issues with the GM and owner he knows the team is headed in the wrong direction. It’s gonna keep the fire lit under him to get the hell out of town. 

[Jetster]

20 hours ago, static14 said:

If Watson stays in Houston he’s going back to a team that will be worse in 2021 than they were in 2020. They’re going to have to cut good players just to have enough money to pay the kids they draft. 18 million over the cap is a horrible place to be.

So aside from his issues with the GM and owner he knows the team is headed in the wrong direction. It’s gonna keep the fire lit under him to get the hell out of town. 

I said that earlier. People are like, why would he want to come to the Jets? Well, for one thing we have assets to try & fix the team. Even if we traded three #1s we'd still have assets. Houston has NOTHING! Their defense is worse than the Jets, they have no money, they have no high draft picks. They have old veterans, they have very few good young players, they are getting the scraps for coaches. Bienenamy was a card holder for Andy Reid, everyone knows that. 

[Larz]

Ask Watson to participate in zoom meeting for next interviews 

win

[Greensleeves]

22 hours ago, JetPotato said:

You couldn't possibly be more wrong. 

I like the part where you ignorantly think being a rookie GM has relevance. You don't get points for time served. You are a GM or you aren't. Additionally, Watson is under contract for several years. If he wants to sit out, have fun with that. The Texans can also fine him for every day of camp he misses.

Why would any competent GM make his biggest asset sit out and create a horror show for the organization and the fans? Just to spite him and send the organization into an abyss? It makes much more sense to unload him for a bunch of picks and start fresh. They aren't in a good spot right now with talent and cap space. This allows them the chance to totally rebuild. Working out of spite doesn't make sense here. Watson does have some say with his no trade clause. He can refuse to go where they want to send him and have his agent give them a list of teams he is good with, but I doubt he would say no if he really wants out. This is the new NFL - star players can and will force their way out. It's unfortunate, but this is not your regular corporation. Was Jamal under contract with us? Where is he now? Also remember that teams have no problem cutting players loose and out of their contracts if it doesn't suit them. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

On 1/21/2021 at 6:46 PM, 32EBoozer said:

Under the collective bargaining agreement, the team could choose to fine Watson up to $50,000 for each day he misses during training camp. Unlike the previous agreement, the fines cannot be waived.

And because of the language in Watson's contract -- standard in deals done by the Texans -- if Watson misses mandatory workouts, there's a chance that could play into whether Watson has to pay back his signing bonus.

Fine his ass until he shows up ; problem solved .

[Savage69]

4 minutes ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

Fine his ass until he shows up ; problem solved .

Hire Bieniemy Monday and Warson will be happy.. 

[The Gooch]

2 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Hire Bieniemy Monday and Warson will be happy.. 

I hate Warson!!!!!

[Jet_Engine1]

On 1/21/2021 at 10:19 PM, 32EBoozer said:

Or my favorite ..... concussion protocol

[Ian Fleming]

[Jet_Engine1]

I think the narrative that the Jets are a "Dysfunctional Organization" needs to be taken outside and put out of its misery. Yeah, Gase and Gregg were aholes, but that was just a PR issue. 

 

The Texans are now considered a "racist" organization after McNairs "inmates" comment, and then hiring a consultant to narrow down the GM Search, who subsequently recommended 2 candidates (who happened to be minorities)...and McNair promptly ignored the people he hired and Hired Caserio from NE for no reason. This was all after they traded Hopkins on the recommendation from their "Character Coach" who reportedly told people in the org., "We don't need people 'like that' here". LOL. This is the same guy (from NE, of course), who weaseled his way from "team chaplain" to essentially a VP of Football Ops position. They then decide to interview only a handful of candidates, ignore completely the highest profile Minority candidates (Bienemy,  Saleh), and alienate their Pro Bowl QB to the point that its now widely rumored that he wants to be traded....

 

Across the Country, the "Washington Football Team" (lol) not only ignores pressure to change a name with racist overtones, they are so tone deaf and willfully stubborn, they don't even have a PLAN or Backup name in place. Duh.... Oh, and apparently the entire front office is straight out of Mad Men, with boozing, sexual harassment, and a general vibe of drunken, rapey Frat Boys. 

 

 

Out in the Midwest, the Lions fire Everyone (again), and are so ****ed up  local guy and presumed front runner for the Job, walks into the room, looks around, and essentially runs out of the building to get on the first flight to New York. 

 

Over in Philly,  they had to fire the head coach because apparently he (and the entire locker room) can't stand the QB who was handed a massive contract and is either always broken, or panics on the field to the point he makes Darnold look like Marino in the pocket.....

 

The Chargers have no fans. 

 

Cincinnati is owned by the Cheapest Man in NFL History.

 

Its time for that tired old narrative to die.   

[NYJ1]

I really don't think there's any way Watson is traded? I'm sure the Texans will realize FQB do not grow on trees. I figure they will ultimately have Watson join them in the HC hiring process and all the bad feelings will be buried.

[Jetster]

5 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

I really don't think there's any way Watson is traded? I'm sure the Texans will realize FQB do not grow on trees. I figure they will ultimately have Watson join them in the HC hiring process and all the bad feelings will be buried.

Here's the thing, he's unhappy & they literally have NO WAY to make him happy! Hire the coach he wants? Ok, what then? They have no way to fix the team. They have no money & no draft picks. 

This team is going to be WORSE! JJ Watt is a goner, check out his contract & then the dead money if cut (ZERO). Even though JJ is shell of what he was in his prime that's still better than anyone they'll find to replace him. Mercilus is one year older & has been fighting injuries. 

With Jax getting Urban Myer & drafting Lawrence & 90 million to spend in free agency, Indy is very solid, Titans are way more physical than the Texans. 2021 has 3-13 written all over it! Watson is going to be playing for an organization he doesn't trust anymore, you know it, I know it, the team knows it, they'll be LUCKY to finish 7-9, and probably worse. Deshaun Watson is going to be the most MISERABLE QB in the league if he stays in Texas! It's a huge mess & trading him would be best for everyone involved I believe. 

[NYJ1]

50 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I think the narrative that the Jets are a "Dysfunctional Organization" needs to be taken outside and put out of its misery. Yeah, Gase and Gregg were aholes, but that was just a PR issue. 

 

The Texans are now considered a "racist" organization after McNairs "inmates" comment, and then hiring a consultant to narrow down the GM Search, who subsequently recommended 2 candidates (who happened to be minorities)...and McNair promptly ignored the people he hired and Hired Caserio from NE for no reason. This was all after they traded Hopkins on the recommendation from their "Character Coach" who reportedly told people in the org., "We don't need people 'like that' here". LOL. This is the same guy (from NE, of course), who weaseled his way from "team chaplain" to essentially a VP of Football Ops position. They then decide to interview only a handful of candidates, ignore completely the highest profile Minority candidates (Bienemy,  Saleh), and alienate their Pro Bowl QB to the point that its now widely rumored that he wants to be traded....

 

Across the Country, the "Washington Football Team" (lol) not only ignores pressure to change a name with racist overtones, they are do tone deaf, they don't even have a PLAN or Backup name in place. Duh.... Oh, and apparently tge entire front office is straight out of Mad Men, with boozing, sexual harassment, and a general vibe of Rapey Frat Boys. 

 

 

Out in the Midwest, tye Lions fire Everyone (again), and are so ****ed up  local guy and presumed front runner for the Job, walks into the room, looks around, and essentially runs out of the building to get on the first flight to New York. 

 

Over in Philly,  they had to fire the head coach because apparently he (and the entire locker room) can't stand the QB who was handed a massive contract and is either always broken, or panics on the field to the point he makes Darnold look like Marino in the pocket.....

 

The Chargers have no fans. 

 

Cincinnati is owned by tye Cheapest Man in NFL History.

 

Its time for that tired old narrative to die.   

What is this? Are you trying to card stack NFL organizations based on accusations leveled against them? I think this is silly. If any of these organizations were racist they wouldn't hire minorities to work for them.

The fact is IMO (and at the end of the day it's all just personal opinions) the Jets were never a "dysfunctional organization". The Johnson's just made poor hiring choices.  

[NYJ1]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Here's the thing, he's unhappy & they literally have NO WAY to make him happy! Hire the coach he wants? Ok, what then? They have no way to fix the team. They have no money & no draft picks. 

This team is going to be WORSE! JJ Watt is a goner, check out his contract & then the dead money if cut (ZERO). Even though JJ is shell of what he was in his prime that's still better than anyone they'll find to replace him. Mercilus is one year older & has been fighting injuries. 

With Jax getting Urban Myer & drafting Lawrence & 90 million to spend in free agency, Indy is very solid, Titans are way more physical than the Texans. 2021 has 3-13 written all over it! Watson is going to be playing for an organization he doesn't trust anymore, you know it, I know it, the team knows it, they'll be LUCKY to finish 7-9, and probably worse. Deshaun Watson is going to be the most MISERABLE QB in the league if he stays in Texas! It's a huge mess & trading him would be best for everyone involved I believe. 

Ridiculous. The new GM might have to cut a few players but that's no different than any other team that finds themselves in a cap pickle. If Watson is expecting to never have to cut a few players to get their financial house in order, he'll never be happy no matter where he goes. The Texans are probably going to be a little less competitive for the next few years until they clean out some dead money and bad contracts, but that certainly does NOT mean that they can't retain Watson if they want to and I'm SURE they do.....