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Ignore expensive FA RBs and don't draft a RB in the first 2 rounds


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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

This is a tough topic, one in which  there may not be an iron clad right answer.

On the one hand we are going to be playing a system where low resource backs have flourished in the past and at least do well.

On the other hand I watch guys like Kamarra and Cook and Henry and such who make a massive difference every single week.  None of those guys went as high as 23 but are all worthy of that draft spot. 

As with all things 'it depends who else is on the board' at that time.

I would not go looking for a RB at 23 for sure.  I also would not eliminate a RB at 23.

you answered your own musings.

This system crunches out RBs like grill cheese... given the state of our roster, lets leverage that for the time. We can circle back later. 

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The Jets are going to improve their rushing attack even without a dramatic upgrade at RB.  It's all about the system, the blocking talent (OL, TE, FB) and having a reasonable passing threat. Here

So u say dont take a running back high in the draft then post a list showing: dobbins, chubb, henry, sanders, cook, taylor, jones etc who were all high draft picks. hahahahahahahaha

The NY Jets RB corps is terrible its been terrible for years.  A good passing game benefits from a good running game and our passing game needs all the help it can get.  If Etienne or Harris

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17 minutes ago, Paradis said:

you answered your own musings.

This system crunches out RBs like grill cheese... given the state of our roster, lets leverage that for the time. We can circle back later. 

I'm sure that is the way it will go but imo you still have to wait until pick time.  The jets do have so many holes it is tough to imagine not getting a player of value other than a RB......however....

If I am sitting there and Alvin kamara or dalvin cook is there, who i really like, i do not avoid him to take jabari zuniga.

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

I'm sure that is the way it will go but imo you still have to wait until pick time.  The jets do have so many holes it is tough to imagine not getting a player of value other than a RB......however....

If I am sitting there and Alvin kamara or dalvin cook is there, who i really like, i do not avoid him to take jabari zuniga.

For sure. You can't pass on bonafide talent because of some scrambled sense of positional value. If Kenny Gainwell wound up sitting there at the top of 3 because those two inflated Tarheels go early - you jump on it - and never ever look back. 

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1 hour ago, choon328 said:

Jamal Williams to go along with Perine and Johnson would be a good fit in my opinion

I like this idea too. Williams, Ty Johnson, Perine and use a 3rd/4th round pick on a RB that "fits" what Lafleur wants to do scheme wise.  You can keep 4RBs these days.

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This team needs a CB far more than a RB.  Good ones are harder to find, cost alot more in FA and have to show far more individual talent to be considered successful (vs. RB's who often have success tied to systems and blocking schemes)

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43 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Matt Breida is one of the only veterans worth spending money on this year. He would be a wise investment. 

Mattt Breida can't stay on the field. He's a band aid boy - always injured and very brittle.   Just draft a fast RB in the late rounds.  Johnson is fine for the SF system.  Perine is too.  Wilson and Mostert came off the scrap heap.  Jets can and should do the same.   No on Jamal Williams.  He's too old already and likely too expensive. No on Harris and Etienne. The Jets need to use the Seattle pick and their own 2nd round pick on other holes.  Plus these guys played on high octane offenses that had huge size and athleticism advantages on the OL.  I wish this Harris and Etienne talk would just stop.  I would be absolutely floored if Douglas and a coach from the Shanahan system used a high pick on a RB.  

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3 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

So u say dont take a running back high in the draft then post a list showing: dobbins, chubb, henry, sanders, cook, taylor, jones etc who were all high draft picks.

hahahahahahahaha

I was gonna say the same thing.. even the QBs on the list are 1st rounders.

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1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Mattt Breida can't stay on the field. He's a band aid boy - always injured and very brittle.   Just draft a fast RB in the late rounds.  Johnson is fine for the SF system.  Perine is too.  Wilson and Mostert came off the scrap heap.  Jets can and should do the same.   No on Jamal Williams.  He's too old already and likely too expensive. No on Harris and Etienne. The Jets need to use the Seattle pick and their own 2nd round pick on other holes.  Plus these guys played on high octane offenses that had huge size and athleticism advantages on the OL.  I wish this Harris and Etienne talk would just stop.  I would be absolutely floored if Douglas and a coach from the Shanahan system used a high pick on a RB.  

That mentality has left us with piss poor running back rooms. Matt is not going to come with much if any guaranteed money....If he gets injured you waive him.

I don’t disagree with you, but you still need some semblance of competence. signing Breida doesn’t relinquish our responsibility to take a swing in the draff

 

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What did mckinnin, coleman, mostert and wilson all have in common?  They all suck.

They literally tried 4 different guys and none of them could handle the job.

This is what u want to emulate??  Not derrick henry or dalvin cook????

This is really crazy time on this board and some of u have lost ur minds.

Take najae harris at 23 and we will have a pro bowler and wont have to think about that position for the next 4 years.

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13 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Ha!  Fair point.  Let me be a little more clear.... I'm talking about the Jets 1st and 2nd round picks this year.  If we were picking 63rd rather than 34th I'd be flexible, but I'm just saying this team, in the condition it's in right now, shouldn't use a Top 34 pick on RB.  Again, my opinion, and I'm factoring in the multitude of other needs this team has.  An early RB is a bit of a luxury.... teams that can protect their QB, complete passes down the field, rush and sack the opponent's passer, defend the opponent's WR down the field should be using 1st and 2nd round picks on a RB.  But we don't any of those four important things well enough yet to be spending valuable picks on a RB.  It seems like a 2022 or 2023 kinda pick for the Jets.

Totally agree with this. Zeke Elliott was neatralized when the Cowboys Oline deteriorated. Look what guys like Robinson did for Jax. I'm fine if Saleh bring just Wilson in rock with Perine & Ty Johnson. Maybe Sermon with our late 3rd? Maybe. I have to say that I'm starting to lean towards signing a Center like Lindsey who would cost a lot less than Thuney or Scherff, move McGovern to Guard & draft Wyatt Davis. I'd rather an experienced center than a rookie like Josh Myers. But we'll see, I think JD loves Joe Thuney (tough, can move). I think he goes after him again & Saleh could sell Thuney on joining the Jets? The last game we played the Pats, Thuney was 25 yards downfield blocking his azz off! The guy would add quite the kick playing next to Becton! Take one look at Saleh & Douglas and tell me these guys aren't building a big tough mobile Oline in free agency & the draft. 49ers crushed us on those stretch plays, they were a thing of beauty. 

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10 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

What did mckinnin, coleman, mostert and wilson all have in common?  They all suck.

They literally tried 4 different guys and none of them could handle the job.

This is what u want to emulate??  Not derrick henry or dalvin cook????

This is really crazy time on this board and some of u have lost ur minds.

Take najae harris at 23 and we will have a pro bowler and wont have to think about that position for the next 4 years.

you want the best players at each position.  if you can draft Etienne or Harris at 23, might as well take him.  RB is a glaring hole.

NFL leading rushers last year:

Henry - 1st
Cook - 2nd
Taylor - 2nd
Jones - 5th
Robinson - UDFA
Montgomery - 3rd
Chubb - 2nd
Jacobs - 1st
Gordon - 1st
Elliott - 1st

others like Ronald Jones in the 2nd, Drake 3rd, Kamara 3rd, Sanders 2nd, Hunt 3rd, CMC 1st, etc.

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19 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Stop trotting washed up guys out there and the team HAS improved at running back.  Everybody is looking for splash players, but I think you can expect them to sign a guy that they know and roll with some young no-names.  Everybody is thinking Wilson but I think he is an RFA.  Breida is another option, but I think they may go Jerick McKinnon.  He was considered a big get when he got to SF.,  They got nothing for their money, but he proved healthy this year.  He may be the kind of vet that knows the system to be a good floor and example for the others. OTOH, maybe he lost is burst and is another of the washed up guys I am complaining about.  I would hope that these guys know which, but that hasn't been the case with past coaches (Gase/Gore).

How is Michael Carter a college running back "washed up"?  Have you even seen this kid play?  He would a awesome pick in the third round.    It doesn't hurt to have a true differ3ence maker in the backfield.  

 

 

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6 hours ago, heymangold said:

you want the best players at each position.  if you can draft Etienne or Harris at 23, might as well take him.  RB is a glaring hole.

NFL leading rushers last year: Henry - 1st

Cook - 2nd
Taylor - 2nd
Jones - 5th
Robinson - UDFA
Montgomery - 3rd
Chubb - 2nd
Jacobs - 1st
Gordon - 1st
Elliott - 1st

others like Ronald Jones in the 2nd, Drake 3rd, Kamara 3rd, Sanders 2nd, Hunt 3rd, CMC 1st, etc.

Thank you!  I am so sick of all these posts talking about how we need to support our young quarterback and somehow getting a top talent at running back is a "wasted pick".     I get you don't want to take running back in the top 10 or even perhaps 20, but to act like taking one in late first, second or third round is just plain stupid.   All one has to do is look around the league to realize that. 

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1 minute ago, JetBlue said:

Thank you!  I am so sick of all these posts talking about how we need to support our young quarterback and somehow getting a top talent at running back is a "wasted pick".     I get you don't want to take running back in the top 10 or even perhaps 20, but to act like taking one in late first, second or third round is just plain stupid.   All one has to do is look around the league to realize that. 

A decent playmaker RB like Etienne or Harris instantly improves this offense that failed to win games and score points in 2020. 

A viable running game will help the passing game. 

 

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20 hours ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

Mostert runs 4.4 flat. McKinnon runs 4.4 flat. Coleman runs 4.4 flat. This is the Clinton Portis-era Madden rushing offense. They're not even looking at Etienne or Harris.

Etienne looks like a sub 4.4 guy to me. 

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Better to build a very good oline.  A very good oline will make a average RB above average.  There will be plenty of good RB's in 3-4 round of draft.  I hope we don't draft a RB early.  I do like Harris a lot but I would pass on him and fill a more pressing need.  

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4 minutes ago, Boynton Beach Jets said:

Better to build a very good oline.  A very good oline will make a average RB above average.  There will be plenty of good RB's in 3-4 round of draft.  I hope we don't draft a RB early.  I do like Harris a lot but I would pass on him and fill a more pressing need.  

Depend on the FA signings. What if the Jets sign Thuney or Scherff ? I would have no problem with a rb at #23 or #34

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Best case scenario, even if you hit on a stud RB  in the first round. Eventually you have no choice but to pay the man in 4 years.

And giving a RB a big contract is a huge waste of money that could hamstring a franchise.

Better invest in the O-line. It's been proven to be the way to go.

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8 hours ago, jetsQuebec said:

Depend on the FA signings. What if the Jets sign Thuney or Scherff ? I would have no problem with a rb at #23 or #34

Still to many holes to fill.  We need edge rushers, OL, CB's and many other things.  The shelf life of RB's are not long and having to give a RB a 5th year option in 1st round later in their rookie contract is not worth it.  There are 3rd and 4th year RB's that will help.

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On 1/22/2021 at 6:37 PM, peekskill68 said:

This team needs a CB far more than a RB.  Good ones are harder to find, cost alot more in FA and have to show far more individual talent to be considered successful (vs. RB's who often have success tied to systems and blocking schemes)

This teams need offense far more than any position on defense.  At this point CB, as well as any defensive position, is a luxury pick.

 

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On 1/23/2021 at 6:55 AM, heymangold said:

you want the best players at each position.  if you can draft Etienne or Harris at 23, might as well take him.  RB is a glaring hole.

NFL leading rushers last year:

Henry - 1st
Cook - 2nd
Taylor - 2nd
Jones - 5th
Robinson - UDFA
Montgomery - 3rd
Chubb - 2nd
Jacobs - 1st
Gordon - 1st
Elliott - 1st

others like Ronald Jones in the 2nd, Drake 3rd, Kamara 3rd, Sanders 2nd, Hunt 3rd, CMC 1st, etc.

Henry was absolutely not drafted in the first round.

Seven backs to get to the initial first round pick, and two of those guys had very disappointing years - Jacobs 3.9 YPC and Elliott 4.0 YPC. You then have a ways to go to the next first round pick on the list.

Yardage totals which you’re looking at here are of course impacted by touch volumes - it’s why Jacobs and Elliott are high on the list despite not being productive on a per touch basis - which was the OP’s initial point about the YPC of the SF backs. You’re picking a set of information that fits your narrative of wanting to spend early picks on bellcow backs and deemphasizes teams that have a good system and churn out productive backs. 

One of the best examples of that is that Alvin Kamara who’s an absolute superstar and top three back in the league wasn’t hurt this year like CMC and doesn’t make your initial list. Why? Because the Saints also give Latavius Murray a ton of carries. Keeps Kamara fresh and healthy and lets him continue to produce chunk gains when he gets touches. And also because he contributes a ton in the receiving game - also ignored just looking at rushing yards.

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11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This teams need offense far more than any position on defense.  At this point CB, as well as any defensive position, is a luxury pick.

 

I do understand what you’re saying, but edge is a pretty huge need in this system. They’re going to be able to cobble pretty much everything else together but if there’s an edge they like on the board it’s going to be firmly in play.

Corner I think is pretty much off the table at this point.

I expect they’ll look seriously at an athletic off ball linebacker to be the dude for the team on day 2 at some point, don’t think with 34 but maybe one of the thirds this year or something day two next year. That Fred Warner, Bobby Wagner role. Maybe they try Mosley at it this year but I’m skeptical he does much going forward.

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On 1/22/2021 at 4:34 PM, rangerous said:

who was the running back in denver who always saluted when he scored a td?  i don't think it was terrel davis.  

It WAS TD, but he STOLE the Salute Celebration from Adrian Murrell, who did it to honor his Father, a career soldier who retired from the Army a Command Sergeant Major. Murrell was saluting after Touchdowns as early as 1995, but '96 was his best year.

 

TD, who had zero connection to the military,  did it because it looked cool. **** him.

 

😆

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2 hours ago, Boynton Beach Jets said:

Still to many holes to fill.  We need edge rushers, OL, CB's and many other things.  The shelf life of RB's are not long and having to give a RB a 5th year option in 1st round later in their rookie contract is not worth it.  There are 3rd and 4th year RB's that will help.

I agree 100% with you, but it all depends on FA!! What if they signed a big time WR and a good OL in FA ?? 1st round I agree this is maybe to soon but 2nd or 3rd I am all in, we need a good rb anyway, can’t go for a committee all the time

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23 hours ago, JetBlue said:

How is Michael Carter a college running back "washed up"?  Have you even seen this kid play?  He would a awesome pick in the third round.    It doesn't hurt to have a true differ3ence maker in the backfield.  

 

 

I'm not sure what Michael Carter has to do with my point.  I don't have a huge problem with burning a pick on RB, but I don't think it is imperative.  My point was that our RB stable was better if they stopped trying to feed Bell and Gore and let the ball go to the players that were playing well - Ty Johnson and Josh Adams didn't get many carries despite obviously having more success that the others.  Ballage ran okay and did well out of the backfield, but at least his blowing blitz pickups explains why didn't get run.   I was saying that they don't need to sign or draft anybody and they would still probably be better.  I assume the new guys will want their own guys, so there will probably be tons of turnover.

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On 1/22/2021 at 4:43 PM, choon328 said:

Jamal Williams to go along with Perine and Johnson would be a good fit in my opinion

Thankfully he's a Jamaal with 2 a's.   

No Jamals allowed 

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This teams need offense far more than any position on defense.  At this point CB, as well as any defensive position, is a luxury pick.

 

CB is not a luxury position.

We need corners more than we need runners as of today.  I want to see Ty Johnson and Perine in this offense more than I want to pray that we have the corners to stop teams from making chunk plays

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On 1/23/2021 at 6:55 AM, heymangold said:

you want the best players at each position.  if you can draft Etienne or Harris at 23, might as well take him.  RB is a glaring hole.

NFL leading rushers last year:

Henry - 1st
Cook - 2nd
Taylor - 2nd
Jones - 5th
Robinson - UDFA
Montgomery - 3rd
Chubb - 2nd
Jacobs - 1st
Gordon - 1st
Elliott - 1st

others like Ronald Jones in the 2nd, Drake 3rd, Kamara 3rd, Sanders 2nd, Hunt 3rd, CMC 1st, etc.

I'm throwing a flag on this list.

Cook was a 2nd round pick because of non-football reasons.  He was easily a mid-1st rounder if not for the legal issues and to some extent, shoulder injuries.  So no surprise he ended up being one of the best RBs in the game.  

5-yard penalty.  Repeat 1st down.

That's all.  Carry on.

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4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

CB is not a luxury position.

We need corners more than we need runners as of today.  I want to see Ty Johnson and Perine in this offense more than I want to pray that we have the corners to stop teams from making chunk plays

Since a decade it’s always the defense who gives us chance to win!! How many 3 and out the Jets had since the last 2 years ?? At some point we need offense. The best thing for a defense is to stay on the sideline!!! What if Hall and Maulet, Jackson has to play 20-30 less plays per game because the offense is staying on the field ?? EDGE is a bigger need than CB for me, but I’ll jump on a Etienne or Harris with 34 if they are still there

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