Mock Offseason (Building around Watson)

[bla bla bla]

17 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

My overall critique though, is that this seems more like a Mike Tannenbaum offseason than a Joe Douglas offseason. Forgetting the Watson trade for a second (and the compensation), this seems too an all-in on the other free agents.

Signing the top free agent on the market and another top five free agent?

And then back to Deshaun... do you think Joe Douglas is the type of GM to do the most blockbuster trade since Herschel Walker? 

I just don't think that's going to be the JD/Saleh recipe, tbh. 

I completely agree on the bolded, this was more-so a thought experiment to see if a team can be built around Watson. Gething Thuney and Robinson is a pipe dream but they are going to be the most expensive at their position which means literally any other WR or G will be a cap savings thus allowing for more players to come in. I fully expect us to take a QB at #2 or trade down and roll with Sam, I just got sick of the narrative that the Jets would not be able to build around Watson, that's just not correct haha. I appreciate the thoughts on the actual picks though, completely agree on Samuel. I chose him 1 cause I've been following him pretty closely, and 2 because 49ers fans that I've spoke with felt Saleh's system doesn't need to be zone heavy. As for Trey, I'll be honest I don't know a ton about him aside from his rankings on draft sights and our need for a G. 

[bla bla bla]

20 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Hahah I’ve watched @bla bla bla ‘s replies go from—

“well I was just trying illustrate—“,

“ok look maybe I shouldn’t have—“

“I really regret putting that in—“

“I want to die”

haha pretty accurate as I've worked my way through this. When I make this video I know how to frame it ?

[bla bla bla]

10 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Post like those from @Darnold Schwarzenegger and @PepPep give away just how fan driven their rationale is. There’s no version of reality where Watson is worth 4 first round picks, one of those being #2. It’s excess in utero.

Draw up whatever fcking Dr Seuss value chart you want. It’s clear some of you would just keep going. 5 firsts. 6..

no limit baby  

“bruuuuhhhh top 5 bruh. It’s all a gamble anyway....”

I probably should stop trying to explain that the whole point is purely having no firsts this year haha

[Mo Lew]

35 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I think circumstance plays a part, if the Jets were picking #12 would you expect them to draft a QB or roll with Sam for 1 more season? Just because we want to trade Sam does not mean we don't think he can be a good QB, it could mean we have the #2 pick and want to reset the QB clock for our GM and HC to be on the same page.

If they think Sam could be good we should run it back.  If they don’t the 49ers wouldn’t either. To me it doesn’t really add up. But I thought we hit the jackpot when Sam fell to us so what do I know. 
 

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

10 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I completely agree on the bolded, this was more-so a thought experiment to see if a team can be built around Watson. Gething Thuney and Robinson is a pipe dream but they are going to be the most expensive at their position which means literally any other WR or G will be a cap savings thus allowing for more players to come in. I fully expect us to take a QB at #2 or trade down and roll with Sam, I just got sick of the narrative that the Jets would not be able to build around Watson, that's just not correct haha. I appreciate the thoughts on the actual picks though, completely agree on Samuel. I chose him 1 cause I've been following him pretty closely, and 2 because 49ers fans that I've spoke with felt Saleh's system doesn't need to be zone heavy. As for Trey, I'll be honest I don't know a ton about him aside from his rankings on draft sights and our need for a G. 

Listen, I respect the effort. And your first paragraph said this was one of a number of scenarios. So I totally get that.

And it seems like we agree that this is the least likely scenario - but certainly possible. 

It’s a thought experiment. Interestingly enough, after looking at in totality, I think I’d prefer to keep the picks and build slowly. I feel like this scenario is too much of a wild haymaker. For the amount of resources spent - are we a super bowl contender? I’m nervous this isn’t even a division winning team, on paper. 

Certainly has me re-thinking the Deshaun price and free agency. 

And I’ll read more about Asante and try to understand more about Saleh’s scheme. I’ve been considering prospects like Paulson Adebo from Stanford and Greg Newsome II from Northwestern for the scheme, but I know I’ve got more to learn.

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

Post like those from @Darnold Schwarzenegger and @PepPep give away just how fan driven their rationale is. There’s no version of reality where Watson is worth 4 first round picks, one of those being #2.

Draw up whatever fcking Dr Seuss value chart you want. Nobody’s getting 4 firsts. Yet  some of you are like “bruuuuhhhh top 5 bruh. For sure. Totally. It’s all a gamble anyway....”

 

And some people think the #2 pick is worth 3 1st rounders in a trade back. Yet Watson isn't worth 4? Why? Someone explain that logic to me. 

 

What happens when someone trades up to 2, takes wilson and he busts. Ive seen that story play out a hundred times. Darnold, trubisky, wentz, rg3 etc. etc. 

What happens if we stay at 2, take Wilson and he busts. In 4 years we will be in the same exact position we are in now. Atleast my scenario gaurentees us a good qb for a very long time. 

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

2 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

And some people think the #2 pick is worth 3 1st rounders in a trade back. Yet Watson isn't worth 4? Why? Someone explain that logic to me. 

 

What happens when someone trades up to 2, takes wilson and he busts. Ive seen that story play out a hundred times. Darnold, trubisky, wentz, rg3 etc. etc. 

What happens if we stay at 2, take Wilson and he busts. In 4 years we will be in the same exact position we are in now. Atleast my scenario gaurentees us a good qb for a very long time. 

 

I think this is exactly why Houston doesn’t trade Deshaun and why we trade down from #2. 

[PepPep]

14 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Post like those from @Darnold Schwarzenegger and @PepPep give away just how fan driven their rationale is. There’s no version of reality where Watson is worth 4 first round picks, one of those being #2. It’s excess in utero.

Draw up whatever fcking Dr Seuss value chart you want. It’s clear some of you would just keep going. 5 firsts. 6..

no limit baby  

“bruuuuhhhh top 5 bruh. It’s all a gamble anyway....”

 

 

 

My point was never in trying to nail down the exact value or price tag of Watson in a trade. My point was that for the Jets, who desperately need a Franchise QB, have a plethora of picks (including the #2 overall) and have cap space and suddenly an opportunity to get a FQB in his prime- getting Watson is worth giving up as much as 4 first rounders. Clearly they may not have to, probably won't, and frankly he will never be a Jet. 

But its very simple, if the Jets end up giving up 4 first round picks for Watson and Houston is not able to draft a FQB with those draft picks- i.e. they bust, the Jets win this trade.  Even if the Jets don't win a SB with Watson. Even if the Houston gets other great players with those draft picks. QB is the most important position. It's why the get ovedrafted time and time again. Its why Watson is worth a haul even though its not in your 'version of reality'.    

[bla bla bla]

6 minutes ago, Mo Lew said:

If they think Sam could be good we should run it back.  If they don’t the 49ers wouldn’t either. To me it doesn’t really add up. But I thought we hit the jackpot when Sam fell to us so what do I know. 
 

I think the money and thought of having the #2 pick need to be factored in though. It's the same reason the Cardinals moved on from Rosen (only without the looming contract). In short, if they don't think a franchise QB is in this draft then trade back and keep Sam but if you think Fields or Wilson is the guy then regardless how you feel about Sam, the choice should be QB. I'd be surprised if there isn't a team willing to give up a second for Sam in the event we draft a QB at #2.

[bla bla bla]

11 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

It’s a thought experiment. Interestingly enough, after looking at in totality, I think I’d prefer to keep the picks and build slowly. I feel like this scenario is too much of a wild haymaker. For the amount of resources spent - are we a super bowl contender? I’m nervous this isn’t even a division winning team, on paper. 

Certainly has me re-thinking the Deshaun price and free agency. 

I don't think this necessarily screams super bowl or bust, if the plan is to get Watson it's to open a window 10 years long. I think there are other routes you can take that are easier to swallow. Swapping Robinson for Curtis Samuel and drafting a #1 WR likely saves $10M per year or going after Zeitler who is likely to be cut by the Giants could save a ton too as he may not want to move from the area making the Jets a perfect landing spot.

IMO the best case scenario is trading down, rolling with Sam for a season and then readdressing QB in 2022 when we likely have 3 first round picks, unfortunately that may involve us giving up some or all of those firsts to get the next guy. It's a calculated gamble by Douglas if they go this route. Actually best case would be trading down, being okay with Sam starting and then having the dumb luck of having a QB you do like fall into your lap haha.

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, Mo Lew said:

The people making the decision should have exactly the same viewpoint. 

Shannahan vs Saleh/Lafleur 

I’m not sure what you mean 

[Maxman]

Good job @bla bla bla enjoy the incoming on the trade lol. You are used to it so I am going to focus on the free agency part.

I really love the thought of Richard Sherman. He is too old and I hope they are able to get him for less than 7 million.  I do want him here though. The fan in me likes the star power, but more importantly I think he can be a culture shift so to speak.  

Thuney is another player I want. He is on the older side so they would have to front load his contract a bit.

Allen Robinson, if they can pull that off....incredible. Watson to Robinson. Wow. This would really be an NBA like rebuild. 

Hell CJ Mosley might even show up.

Good job with this!

[bla bla bla]

28 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Good job @bla bla bla enjoy the incoming on the trade lol. You are used to it so I am going to focus on the free agency part.

I really love the thought of Richard Sherman. He is too old and I hope they are able to get him for less than 7 million.  I do want him here though. The fan in me likes the star power, but more importantly I think he can be a culture shift so to speak.  

Thuney is another player I want. He is on the older side so they would have to front load his contract a bit.

Allen Robinson, if they can pull that off....incredible. Watson to Robinson. Wow. This would really be an NBA like rebuild. 

Hell CJ Mosley might even show up.

Good job with this!

haha I appreciate going easy on me. Yea I really don't want Sherman to get $7M or really be our starter but like you said I think the voice in the locker room is a big thing and could see us bringing him in. Thuney is upper 20s but I think Guard should be able to play into their mid 30s especially considering the guy is never injured. Robinson is a pipe dream without Watson IMO haha that was more-so to show the Jets could pay $20m per season to a WR and still make it work.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

haha I believe it gets done for 3 firsts but I wanted to prove a point

I think the only way they trade him is if he forces the trade, in which case we have the hammer.  I would trade both of Seattles 1st round picks, Sam and whatever.  Thats it, dont want to deal, so be it.

[Beerfish]

3 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Man I really apologize for writing that one line haha call it #2 and #23, the point is the same. The Jets have plenty of resources to build around Watson - and even more if the roll with Wilson/Fields or Sam. I understand the point you are making about those QBs not being drafted with a top 3 pick but Josh Allen is a bad example. The Bills needed to trade up 2 times in the first to get to pick #7.

I was not trying to blast you and your effort in particular on this.  My rant was more of an overall rant in talking about '1st rounders' when the value of these picks varies wildly.  ?

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

you do know that you can quote select an area of the text without having the whole frickin’ thing reposted .....right?

You do know there us a scroll wheel on your mouse? 

[Maxman]

2 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

haha I appreciate going easy on me. Yea I really don't want Sherman to get $7M or really be our starter but like you said I think the voice in the locker room is a big thing and could see us bringing him in. Thuney is upper 20s but I think Guard should be able to play into their mid 30s especially considering the guy is never injured. Robinson is a pipe dream without Watson IMO haha that was more-so to show the Jets could pay $20m per season to a WR and still make it work.

I am firmly in the move on from Sam camp but damn if you can add Thuney and Robinson it would be tempting to hold on to the other picks and just draft or run Sam out there. If Sam didn't suck (big if lol) they could trade out of 2 and walk out of this draft LOADED.

[Paradis]

4 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

And some people think the #2 pick is worth 3 1st rounders in a trade back. Yet Watson isn't worth 4? Why? Someone explain that logic to me. 

 

What happens when someone trades up to 2, takes wilson and he busts. Ive seen that story play out a hundred times. Darnold, trubisky, wentz, rg3 etc. etc. 

What happens if we stay at 2, take Wilson and he busts. In 4 years we will be in the same exact position we are in now. Atleast my scenario gaurentees us a good qb for a very long time. 

 

 

4 hours ago, PepPep said:

My point was never in trying to nail down the exact value or price tag of Watson in a trade. My point was that for the Jets, who desperately need a Franchise QB, have a plethora of picks (including the #2 overall) and have cap space and suddenly an opportunity to get a FQB in his prime- getting Watson is worth giving up as much as 4 first rounders. Clearly they may not have to, probably won't, and frankly he will never be a Jet. 

But its very simple, if the Jets end up giving up 4 first round picks for Watson and Houston is not able to draft a FQB with those draft picks- i.e. they bust, the Jets win this trade.  Even if the Jets don't win a SB with Watson. Even if the Houston gets other great players with those draft picks. QB is the most important position. It's why the get ovedrafted time and time again. Its why Watson is worth a haul even though its not in your 'version of reality'.    

 

4 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I probably should stop trying to explain that the whole point is purely having no firsts this year haha

Don't take me too seriously... i'm just spit ballin'...  

These conversations get pretty invested and such. It's all in the name of getting to the playoffs. I'm comfortable following whatever our GM decides to do -- which is a first in a loooooooooooong time. 

[doitny]

in all these Watson trade talk you all forget the only thing that matters.

Watson HAS TO APROVE  """ ANY TRADE """"  thats it , end of story.

doesnt matter that we can beat anyones offer, its not up to Houston

question is , how do we get Watson to choose us ?

we cant. 

 

[Paradis]

5 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

And some people think the #2 pick is worth 3 1st rounders in a trade back. Yet Watson isn't worth 4? Why? Someone explain that logic to me. 

 

What happens when someone trades up to 2, takes wilson and he busts. Ive seen that story play out a hundred times. Darnold, trubisky, wentz, rg3 etc. etc. 

What happens if we stay at 2, take Wilson and he busts. In 4 years we will be in the same exact position we are in now. Atleast my scenario gaurentees us a good qb for a very long time. 

 

I get it. Why mess around when there’s someone proven. I’m not saying that’s not something to consider, but I have line to cross. So many areas across the 53 to consider 

[68JET11]

At least @Jetsfan80 is only giving up 31st's which is still to much, but hey, that was a nice try.

[32EBoozer]

6 hours ago, johnnysd said:

You do know there us a scroll wheel on your mouse? 

Most of us use phones these days. No mouse. 

[32EBoozer]

4 hours ago, doitny said:

in all these Watson trade talk you all forget the only thing that matters.

Watson HAS TO APROVE  """ ANY TRADE """"  thats it , end of story.

doesnt matter that we can beat anyones offer, its not up to Houston

question is , how do we get Watson to choose us ?

we cant. 

 

Easy enough to find out. I believe Saleh and his agent are friends. If he’s open to coming speak to Houston. If not, prepare for FA & Draft. 

[OCCH23]

11 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I probably should stop trying to explain that the whole point is purely having no firsts this year haha

Before you jump off a cliff, just know some of us understand what you're trying to say.

Not that we SHOULD do what you proposed, but even such a "worst case scenario" could result in a respectable team with potential near-term success.

I agree on both counts (that your hypothetical isn't ideal/realistic, but also isn't as "Rome is burning" as some make it out to be).

If/when DW gets traded, then we'll see where the bar was set, and argue whether the Jets should/shouldn't have thrown their hat in the ring (assuming they don't make the winning bid).  Until then, I'd say this was a better post than most are giving it credit for . . .

 

[JustInFudge]

Good stuff.  Super easy to go get Watson even at a premium and still easily build around him.  Easily.  

[OCCH23]

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I think the only way they trade him is if he forces the trade, in which case we have the hammer.  I would trade both of Seattles 1st round picks, Sam and whatever.  Thats it, dont want to deal, so be it.

But what if he's OK with NYJ or Miami, and Miami makes a better offer.  Is that really where you set your limit?  Of course we don't WANT to give up more than necessary, but I think we have to be willing to go further if necessary . . .

[Jetsfan80]

At least [mention=5406]Jetsfan80[/mention] is only giving up 31st's which is still to much, but hey, that was a nice try.

I’d be willing to give up more, though.

[Stark]

59 minutes ago, JiF said:

Good stuff.  Super easy to go get Watson even at a premium and still easily build around him.  Easily.  

Yup

35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I’d be willing to give up more, though.

 

Lol

 

Trade for Watson

Trade away Sam

Trade away Mosley 

 

no you will not recoup all the capital to acquire Watson but.... you will get probably a 2nd round pick for Sam and possibly a 3rd for Mosley. 
 

trade 3 firsts for Watson (will still have Seattle’s 1st rounders next 2 seasons or 2 of the 5 first round picks in next 3 years). Then add in a 2nd and a 3rd from Darnold and Mosley and acquiring Watsonreally isn’t so bad as far as compensation goes. 

People acting like this would cripple the JETS are cracking me up. 

sure JD would have to pivot and change his plans for offseason but that’s exactly what good teams and front offices are able to do. 
 

JETS fans-gosh we need a legit franchise qb I’d give anything to have a top qb —- “So what would you give away to acquire one that is 25 years old”  

same JETS fan  oh no way bro  we can give up any draft picks for that. Let’s trade our 2overall pick for some extra picks and take a far lesser qb that probably doesn’t work out 

 

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, OCCH23 said:

But what if he's OK with NYJ or Miami, and Miami makes a better offer.  Is that really where you set your limit?  Of course we don't WANT to give up more than necessary, but I think we have to be willing to go further if necessary . . .

I get that Miami could be interested.  Depends on who’s deal Houston likes and if Watson has a preference.  Theres that no-trade to deal with

[bla bla bla]

11 hours ago, doitny said:

in all these Watson trade talk you all forget the only thing that matters.

Watson HAS TO APROVE  """ ANY TRADE """"  thats it , end of story.

doesnt matter that we can beat anyones offer, its not up to Houston

question is , how do we get Watson to choose us ?

we cant. 

There is a ton of smoke suggesting that the Jets are his top landing spot even before the article from bleacher report today.

[bla bla bla]

7 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Easy enough to find out. I believe Saleh and his agent are friends. If he’s open to coming speak to Houston. If not, prepare for FA & Draft. 

Could be wrong, but I've heard they have the SAME agent

[32EBoozer]

18 hours ago, Beerfish said:

If we traded down from #2 overall to the seattle pick #23 we would get 3 firsta and a 2nd probably

So your saying that if we traded our #23 for our #2 we would gain an additional 3 firsts and a 2nd?!

[doitny]

17 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

There is a ton of smoke suggesting that the Jets are his top landing spot even before the article from bleacher report today.

yeah i seen the report. also seen Miami is 2nd.

im sure GM s are aloud to talk trades, just not make them yet. 

maybe Miami offer wasn't good enough for Houston. maybe we have the better offer and they told Watson and hes trying to get Miami to offer more so that Houston can approve a trade there.

hes telling them, hey Miami if you dont make a better trade offer for me i will go to the Jets and you will have to play against me twice a year for the next 10 years. 

hey i would love to have Watson here. but now you tell me its because of a rookie HC . i just don't see it.

 i would love to be wrong

[K_O_Brien]

Nice effort.

Dream free agency haul in Watson, Robinson and Thuney. By adding Smith in the second round and Gainwell in the third, we're competent TE play away from becoming a top 12 offence. 

It does leave the cupboard a little bare on defence though. But Rome wasn't built in a day, or one off-season. 

Free agency looks a little too splashy for Joe Douglas? I love Allen Robinson, but wonder would signing a pass rusher in free agency (Hendrickson, Okwara, etc.) and a cheaper WR like Samuel represent better value than Robinson and Sherman. 

I think it would Thuney or Trey Smith, not both. Both seem excessive if we still like Clark and Elfein. If we signed Thuney, I'd love Freiermuth at the top of the seocnd if he was there? 

Grabbing Watson would make us a more enticing destination in free agency, but I could still see Joe preferring to look for cheaper value players. 

But honestly, I'd still sign up for your scenario in a heart-beat. 

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, Stark said:

Yup

Lol

 

Trade for Watson

Trade away Sam

Trade away Mosley 

 

no you will not recoup all the capital to acquire Watson but.... you will get probably a 2nd round pick for Sam and possibly a 3rd for Mosley. 
 

trade 3 firsts for Watson (will still have Seattle’s 1st rounders next 2 seasons or 2 of the 5 first round picks in next 3 years). Then add in a 2nd and a 3rd from Darnold and Mosley and acquiring Watsonreally isn’t so bad as far as compensation goes. 

People acting like this would cripple the JETS are cracking me up. 

sure JD would have to pivot and change his plans for offseason but that’s exactly what good teams and front offices are able to do. 
 

JETS fans-gosh we need a legit franchise qb I’d give anything to have a top qb —- “So what would you give away to acquire one that is 25 years old”  

same JETS fan  oh no way bro  we can give up any draft picks for that. Let’s trade our 2overall pick for some extra picks and take a far lesser qb that probably doesn’t work out 

 

No one is trading for Mosley's contract.  

But we can absolutely create more picks with a Darnold deal and a trade-down or 2 with our remaining picks.