Is Zach Wilson the Key to the Jets Future?

[FidelioJet 7,949]

3 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

 

Career Stats

See All

STATS
2020
2019
2018

 

CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	RTG
247	336	73.5	3,692	11.0	33	3	78	196.4
199	319	62.4	2,382	7.5	11	9	75	130.8
120	182	65.9	1,578	8.7	12	3	70	157.2

 

I notice you only posted his 2020 stats , 2018 & 2019 were not as good. Was 2020 an outlier ?

Hi numbers were fine.  Young players are expected to get better.

Would you rather he got worse?

 

[SAR I 13,982]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'll make it simple.

Zach Wilson. 

He's is by far the most likely person to be the next Jets QB.

It's a hunch, but I get the feeling that without a combine and some sort of a weakened version of a distanced pro-day, the Jets are going to be too tempted to prove the theorem that Gase Ruined Darnold, trade out of the #2 slot, and let Darnold lead us for another rebuilding year.

My hunches have been horrible of late, so what do I know.

SAR I

[FidelioJet 7,949]

4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

It's a hunch, but I get the feeling that without a combine and some sort of a weakened version of a distanced pro-day, the Jets are going to be too tempted to prove the theorem that Gase Ruined Darnold, trade out of the #2 slot, and let Darnold lead us for another rebuilding year.

My hunches have been horrible of late, so what do I know.

SAR I

I hear ya, but they have enough film on Sam to scare them off and know that Wilson is a perfect fit for the their system.

I seem to be a bit higher than most on Wilson - but I just don't see them passing on him.  Just seems like too good of a fit.

A lot of big decisions to be made.

[56mehl56 3,624]

What I find amusing is that I keep reading how Wilson or even Darnold are perfect fits for the Shanahan system because they are mobile and can throw on the run. A system like this is designed to take the thought process away from a QB so he doesn't have to read defenses like in a traditional offense. It limits the choices and gives them quick options to deliver the ball.

And while I don't agree with the assessment the knock on Fields is that he can't read defenses, so why wouldn't this system work for him as well. The system in theory should be a good fit for any QB who is mobile and athletic. I'd much rather take the QB that  has proven he can take a hit and has beaten real top notch competition.  

[56mehl56 3,624]

14 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Hi numbers were fine.  Young players are expected to get better.

Would you rather he got worse?

 

 

Career Stats

See All

STATS
2020
2019
2018

 

CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	RTG
158	225	70.2	2,100	9.3	22	6	65	175.6
238	354	67.2	3,273	9.2	41	3	60	181.4
27	39	69.2	328	8.4	4	0	57	173.7

 

I think I like these better , especially considering the competition they came against 

[kelly 3,357]

18 minutes ago, SAR I said:

* * My hunches have been horrible of late..

SAR I

* *  True...

[FidelioJet 7,949]

2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

 

Career Stats

See All

STATS
2020
2019
2018

 

CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	RTG
158	225	70.2	2,100	9.3	22	6	65	175.6
238	354	67.2	3,273	9.2	41	3	60	181.4
27	39	69.2	328	8.4	4	0	57	173.7

 

I think I like these better , especially considering the competition they came against 

Sure, if you want to say you like Fields better.  I have no problem with that position.  I don't agree but it's not an unreasonable position to take - there's a lot to like about Fields.

This complete and utter dislike for Wilson by so many around here is just confusing to me.  He's a legitimate top tier NFL QB prospect.  He has EVERYTHING you look for in a QB prospect - like him or don't but let's stop pretending like it's a joke to think he's going to go in the top 3.

 

[playtowinthegame 6,133]

17 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

What I find amusing is that I keep reading how Wilson or even Darnold are perfect fits for the Shanahan system because they are mobile and can throw on the run. A system like this is designed to take the thought process away from a QB so he doesn't have to read defenses like in a traditional offense. It limits the choices and gives them quick options to deliver the ball.

And while I don't agree with the assessment the knock on Fields is that he can't read defenses, so why wouldn't this system work for him as well. The system in theory should be a good fit for any QB who is mobile and athletic. I'd much rather take the QB that  has proven he can take a hit and has beaten real top notch competition.  

I got a question. Will Mike Lafleur use RPOs in his offense?

[Shockwave 731]

30 minutes ago, SAR I said:

It's a hunch, but I get the feeling that without a combine and some sort of a weakened version of a distanced pro-day, the Jets are going to be too tempted to prove the theorem that Gase Ruined Darnold, trade out of the #2 slot, and let Darnold lead us for another rebuilding year.

My hunches have been horrible of late, so what do I know.

SAR I

The Lowest QB Contract is 25m per year. So Darnold's next 4 years will be 10m, 25, 25, 25. 

Chase Young gets 9m per year. 

Over the Next 4 Years Darnold will get paid 85m. Over the next 4 years Zach Wilson would get paid 35m. 

There are 50m reasons why they could choose Zach Wilson. 

[genot 2,003]

There's no denying Watson's talent. Does it give you pause that he played primarily in the shotgon im Houston, and here he would be under center most of the time. For all his positives, he has been one of the most sacked QB's the last 4 years

[56mehl56 3,624]

3 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

I got a question. Will Mike Lafleur use RPOs in his offense?

I don't see why he wouldn't. There are no hard and fast rules to stick to, If you have a QB that is good at RPO by all means that should be incorporated. They've used RPO's with Garappolo  and McVay's offense which is an offshoot of Shanahan's uses RPO's with Goff. 

[nycdan 19,521]

17 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Sure, if you want to say you like Fields better.  I have no problem with that position.  I don't agree but it's not an unreasonable position to take - there's a lot to like about Fields.

This complete and utter dislike for Wilson by so many around here is just confusing to me.  He's a legitimate top tier NFL QB prospect.  He has EVERYTHING you look for in a QB prospect - like him or don't but let's stop pretending like it's a joke to think he's going to go in the top 3.

 

No he does not.  He has a single great season against mostly middling competition in a year heavily impacted by COVID.  And he has injury history to his throwing shoulder.  Even Carson Wentz had two solid seasons when he was drafted and look how he turned out. 

Not saying Wilson doesn't have great potential based on his tape from THIS season, but there are red flags all over the place that seem to be ignored because he makes pretty passes.  Fields' body of work is so far superior to Wilson's in every way and he did it against a lot more guys who will be in the NFL than Wilson did.  I get the like to for Wilson, but I don't get the top-3 hype.  

Serious question - if you love Wilson, why don't you love Trey Lance just as much?  Same beautiful throws.  28 TDs to 0 INTs.  Much better runner.  If I could trade down to the 6-8 range and take Lance and pick up a 2nd this year and 1st next, I would take that over Wilson.  

[Embrace the Suck 3,103]

7 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Besides, all those draft picks are meaningless if you still haven’t solved the QB position.  

I'd trade 3 #1 picks for Watson (particularly with the extra 1's they have), but I disagree with the statement above. People were saying that same thing until we drafted Sam. Once we drafted Sam, regardless of his flaws and performances, it should have become brutally clear that building a good roster even without a QB is important so that when you get him he hits the ground running figuratively, as opposed to literally because he has a crap Oline and WRs that can't run routes.

[FidelioJet 7,949]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

No he does not.  He has a single great season against mostly middling competition in a year heavily impacted by COVID.  And he has injury history to his throwing shoulder.  Even Carson Wentz had two solid seasons when he was drafted and look how he turned out. 

Not saying Wilson doesn't have great potential based on his tape from THIS season, but there are red flags all over the place that seem to be ignored because he makes pretty passes.  Fields' body of work is so far superior to Wilson's in every way and he did it against a lot more guys who will be in the NFL than Wilson did.  I get the like to for Wilson, but I don't get the top-3 hype.  

Serious question - if you love Wilson, why don't you love Trey Lance just as much?  Same beautiful throws.  28 TDs to 0 INTs.  Much better runner.  If I could trade down to the 6-8 range and take Lance and pick up a 2nd this year and 1st next, I would take that over Wilson.  

You keep wanting to look at wins/losses and stats - I want to evaluate him on his translatable skill-set. 

I believe when you're in the NFL no ones going to care how many games you won, what your stats were two seasons ago or for which team you played.  How well will you play at the NFL level - that is the ONLY thing that matters.

I don't believe his "body or work" from his college days determine his success.  It can certainly indicative but Wilsons has plenty of success to show basic ability to succeed.

Bottom line.  We'll simply have to agree to disagree and simply not discuss this anymore.  We just view this too differently, no real point in debating.

[T0mShane 139,619]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

It's a hunch, but I get the feeling that without a combine and some sort of a weakened version of a distanced pro-day, the Jets are going to be too tempted to prove the theorem that Gase Ruined Darnold, trade out of the #2 slot, and let Darnold lead us for another rebuilding year.

My hunches have been horrible of late, so what do I know.

SAR I

Saleh and Douglas are getting one chance on a big QB draft pick, and that prospect better be crispy clean. I get being afraid of Fields, but how do they then turn around and decide Wilson is a better gamble? Fields has better size, better athleticism, has played infinitely better competition, and has had exponentially more success on the national stage. Feels like Jets fans are talking themselves into Wilson because they simply have never seen him play outside of the grainy highlight vids.

[sackdance 518]

4 hours ago, BCJet said:

So say the Jets can offer #2 (2600), 20222 first and 2023 first.  Who exactly is going to beat that offer?  

Who exactly would want to beat this offer? It's almost like you're saying the Jets don't need all these picks ... are we really that good? 

[NYJ1 1,700]

I don't think Zach Wilson is anymore the key to the Jets future as Justin Fields is.....

[Shockwave 731]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Saleh and Douglas are getting one chance on a big QB draft pick, and that prospect better be crispy clean. I get being afraid of Fields, but how do they then turn around and decide Wilson is a better gamble? Fields has better size, better athleticism, has played infinitely better competition, and has had exponentially more success on the national stage. Feels like Jets fans are talking themselves into Wilson because they simply have never seen him play outside of the grainy highlight vids.

To me both seem like bigger gambles than other recent prospects however one could argue both Wilson and Fields both have more upside for success than most would think statistically. Wilson's grade was great this year. Fields was good both years. Note - I believe both were better then Lawrence. 

Quote

Believe it or not, going into the postseason, Wilson sits at a 94.9 Pro Football Focus grade, the same grade Burrow had during his 2019 Heisman campaign at LSU. Burrow ended up being the No. 1 overall pick by the Cincinnati Bengals.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-how-does-byus-zach-wilsons-2020-season-compare-to-joe-burrows-2019-at-lsu-an-incredible-rise-toward-the-2021-nfl-draft

I would think as long as one of Fields/Wilson separates from the other the Jets are going to be in absolute great shape. Daniel Jeremiah has a big gap already with Wilson ahead. Todd Mcshay also has Wilson ahead with a VERY large gap.

This is a great thing for the Jets especially if your a trade down guy or a Deshaun Watson guy. It essentially makes the Jets the only show in town for Watson if your the Texans or other teams that want to move up.  The absolute worst thing that could happen is for all of us to go into draft weekend looking at these guys like its a coin flip which gives Miami a ton of value. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shockwave 731]

5 hours ago, BCJet said:

So say the Jets can offer #2 (2600), 20222 first and 2023 first.  Who exactly is going to beat that offer?  And how is that "the farm" when we would continue to have 1st, 2nd and (2) 3rd round picks this year along with 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks next year. Can we not still adequately build a team in that scenario?

If Zach Wilson separates from Fields which seems to have already happened and he continues to be compared to Aaron Rodgers etc ......

We are going to acquire Desean Watson for ALOT less then that. In fact we would be getting him for alot less then is reported anywhere. 

[Dunnie 2,484]

Yes he is.

[Grandy 3,393]

I like Wilson and Fields a lot, but I feel like people are forgetting about Trey Lance due to a small sample size. I've been watching film of his and he's better mechanically than both Fields and Wilson and also has a bigger arm. We shouldn't forget about him.

[Jimmy 2 Times 2,350]

13 minutes ago, Grandy said:

I like Wilson and Fields a lot, but I feel like people are forgetting about Trey Lance due to a small sample size. I've been watching film of his and he's better mechanically than both Fields and Wilson and also has a bigger arm. We shouldn't forget about him.

I just watched his career highlight video.  It consisted of him staring down his first and then taking off or designed runs.  He may end up great, but no thanks. 

Fields or trade down and build around Sam. 

[Dunnie 2,484]

4 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I can't  get behind this kid no matter how much h YouTube i watch of him. Yes, he has a live arm and good accuracy  but there is the injury, he looks like you can break him in half, and there is the potential  personality  thing. If he turns out to have Bakers attitude, there will be a lot of hate although Baker made it well known what a piece of he was in college, we are all just speculating on this.

 

I think this is understandable ... but then there is the upside ... have you seen this kids accuracy all over the field, his quick release and the ease with which he delivers downfield throws ? ?

 

[JetsFanShawn 138]

maybe but frist we have to get a line

[More Cowbell 4,625]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

I think this is understandable ... but then there is the upside ... have you seen this kids accuracy all over the field, his quick release and the ease with which he delivers downfield throws ? ?

 

I agree, he has talent. I just would like to see him put on about 15 lbs of muscle and play another season in college. 

[Paradis 11,074]

 

[68JET11 1,053]

11 hours ago, BCJet said:

Can you explain "giving away the farm" , not in terms of past trades (Rams moving up for Goff for example) but in the context of this exact situation.   Here are the specific caveats to this situation

1.   The Jets hold the #2 pick that holds a "value" of 2600.  They are not trying to get acquire a QB with an "early" pick in the 8-10 range that would be worth 1400.

2.  They have 4 first round picks in the next 2 drafts prior to the first phone call to the Texans.

No team has ever traded OUT of the #2 while having that pick be part of the "farm" that is given away.  Plenty of times we have seen teams trade UP, while starting in the 8-10 area and needing to add second round picks just to get the conversation started because their #8 pick is worth 1400 because it doesnt represent the chance at a franchise QB, its represents a good positional player.

So say the Jets can offer #2 (2600), 20222 first and 2023 first.  Who exactly is going to beat that offer?  And how is that "the farm" when we would continue to have 1st, 2nd and (2) 3rd round picks this year along with 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks next year. Can we not still adequately build a team in that scenario?

Do you really think the Watson would want to come here and be in the same situation he is in Houston ?  They haven't been able to build a team and their record was 4-12 this year. Tell me how trading picks that could get us another Mangold, or OG will help, when we need help so many other places as well.  Farm is only how well it's stocked with players that start and can also be quality backups.  No, but go ahead and throw that away for a player we're not even ready for. If you want to trade up because Sam isn't the FQB we need, then that happens when we're ready, not wasting 2-3 years of Watson and still being mediocre...

Some people don't understand how to build a team.... A team is more than one player. 

[68JET11 1,053]

9 hours ago, Shockwave said:

The Texans are going to be offered a ridiculous amount of Draft capital from let's say over 10 teams. 

The Texans will accept a deal for significantly LESS from the Jets than those other teams assuming Zach Wilson is their guy. That is the point of this story. 

And that's what I would hope for, because I want Watson also, however I'm not willing to go past Seattle's 2 1st's, Darnold, and maybe a late throw in pick.

[Jetsfan80 121,108]

13 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

You can assure yourselves that with JD in charge of this process, that he will not give the farm away for Watson. This is the best shape cap and draft wise we've been in for a long time, and if JD has learned anything from Ozzie, it's that building a team, doesn't mean giving away the farm. 

Ozzie Newsome was never presented the option of a young, elite franchise QB being available via trade.

There is no playbook for this.  

[Jetsfan80 121,108]

15 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Some people don't understand how to build a team.... A team is more than one player. 

Luckily Watson wouldn't be the only player of consequence on this roster moving forward.  Not by a long-shot.

Anyone who is watching the playoffs this year recognize this simple truth:  You can't be a contender without a QB.  It doesn't guarantee you anything.  But it gives you a shot.  Watson would be a guy that gives the Jets a shot.  The rest would be up to Douglas and Saleh.

[FidelioJet 7,949]

14 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Do you really think the Watson would want to come here and be in the same situation he is in Houston ?  They haven't been able to build a team and their record was 4-12 this year. Tell me how trading picks that could get us another Mangold, or OG will help, when we need help so many other places as well.  Farm is only how well it's stocked with players that start and can also be quality backups.  No, but go ahead and throw that away for a player we're not even ready for. If you want to trade up because Sam isn't the FQB we need, then that happens when we're ready, not wasting 2-3 years of Watson and still being mediocre...

Some people don't understand how to build a team.... A team is more than one player. 

Why not? You'l still have 7-8 years of a top 5 QB to build a winner.

I think that's why people against this are being so short-sighted.  This isn't a 32 year old QB on the backslide.  This is a guy that's probably still 3 years away before he hits his prime.  

If you can get a QB like this you get him....

[68JET11 1,053]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Ozzie Newsome was never presented the option of a young, elite franchise QB being available via trade.

There is no playbook for this.  

Because most teams know how to keep their FQB, not like the bottom feeders like we are. Usually we're the ones that have to overpay, like we have been for years on FA's and other pieces. Saleh hopefully will change that, but right now we're not there.

We both and so do all JETS fans want the same thing, it's just the cost that we disagree with. 

[Jetsfan80 121,108]

2 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Because most teams know how to keep their FQB, not like the bottom feeders like we are. Usually we're the ones that have to overpay, like we have been for years on FA's and other pieces. Saleh hopefully will change that, but right now we're not there.

We both and so do all JETS fans want the same thing, it's just the cost that we disagree with. 

What franchise QB have the Jets drafted and lost?  lmao

[68JET11 1,053]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

What franchise QB have the Jets drafted and lost?  lmao

We haven't lol... We seem to not know how to do that very well, so let Saleh and JD do their thing and maybe we finally have the right crew. Whether it be Watson, or a draft pick. Just don't do the jetsy thing and lose to many or the wrong draft picks.

[Jetsfan80 121,108]

2 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

We haven't lol... We seem to not know how to do that very well, so let Saleh and JD do their thing and maybe we finally have the right crew. Whether it be Watson, or a draft pick. Just don't do the jetsy thing and lose to many or the wrong draft picks.

Acquiring the best QB to don green & white since Namath would be "Jetsy"?  Interesting.  I think that would be anti-Jetsy.  Even if they gave up more picks than you like to get him.