Joe Douglas and last year's draft

[clayton163v]

6 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

Very solid draft.  WhIch teams did better?

Wirfs played RT, Btw

 

I know.  But he was the best performer among the rookie OTs.  I still think Becton will be the top dog over time.  But Wirfs has been outstanding. 

I am not the only one who thinks so either.  Take a look at the week by week reviews of this year's rookie class at ourlads:

https://www.ourlads.com/nfl-draft/

Read it before they take it down.  A great link. 

[clayton163v]

49 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I liked the draft a lot better originally than how it's played out so far. 

As of now JD is not coming off as someone that drafts particularly well.  That can, of course, change as we see these players grow but not looking great yet.

But that is an eternal truth.  We always want better performance on the field when all is said and done. 

But previous general managers engaged in get rich quick schemes and overdrafted players.  Last year we took 8 players and only one was overdrafted and there was a solid rationale for the pick (a buddy for Becton).

I am more forgiving when I can see why we did what we did AT THE TIME we made the pick.  Most picks do not work out.  Three starters is an excellent draft and we got three (Becton, Mims and Hall).  That the others show promise or are unknown at this time is tons of gravy.

It is why I liked the Perine pick.  He is an all around back who is a core special team's player (he played them in college).  He will be with us for years. 

[Jetsfan80]

The only pick I'm truly critical of at the moment would be Perine.  Maybe he'll show a lot more in a RB-friendly system, but from what we saw last season I was not impressed.  Ty Johnson, in the exact same scheme, outplayed him significantly.  I get that're two different style of backs, but I was expecting more out of Perine in the passing game.  

The rest of the picks were basically either solid or incomplete.  We all need to be willing to give guys like Davis and Zuniga time to make an impact.  I was wrong about Quinnen Williams in giving up too quickly there.  

[jetlaw]

I would give the first draft a B-. I would’ve take wirfs over beckon. I like Becton but I thought and still think wirfs is the safer long term option. Although becton has more upside. Mims and Davis both flashed talent but couldn’t stay healthy. Perrine did nothing. Hall in my opinion was the steal of the jets draft. I think he’s a starter in the league and he fits salahs system perfectly. Overall the draft was decent.


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[Irish Jet]

The draft was basically Becton and a bunch of injuries. And he couldn’t miss with either Becton/Wirfs.

Mims showed glimpses of talent but also some concerning limitations. Needs a full camp before we can judge though.

The others picks are all looking pretty bad right now. Not doubling/tripling up at WR with the depth that draft had was criminal. Plenty of productive guys went late. Wasn’t the time for an experimental QB or a nothing RB. 

[32EBoozer]

20 hours ago, clayton163v said:

It took time to dig this hole and it will take time to get out of it.

It took time to post a novel as the OP!!

Lord I hope you didn’t type this with your thumbs on your phone!

[BornJetsFan1983]

7 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

When someone quotes an exceptionally long post like that it just makes it obscene for people who are viewing the website on a cellphone because you have to scroll endlessly to pass by the huge post that the person quoted in their reply.

Its just a common understood courtesy that with long posts (The OP being a GREAT example) that you don't quote it, you just reply. When you reply to a thread it's pretty much understood that you're replaying to the original post, unless you specifically quote someone else's reply. The idea being that the OP in the thread really doesn't need to be replied to, so most people don't (especially with exceedingly large posts) as a courtesy to most readers, who are on their phone. 

Some people aren't aware of this, and some people are and intentionally do it to piss people off or mistakenly think they are funny. If you've ever viewed JN on your phone, imagine what it would be like trying to read through replies is multiple people quoted that OP. 

Lol I use my phone all the time...

I don't even know how to respond alwhat a ridiculous thing to make up. Must be a millennial thing. Maybe most people don't know about your made up courtesy thing because we just scroll down....

I've been posting and scrolling down on jet nation for along time this is a first. Thanks for explaining because I literally had no idea what you were talking about.

[jgb]

7 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

When someone quotes an exceptionally long post like that it just makes it obscene for people who are viewing the website on a cellphone because you have to scroll endlessly to pass by the huge post that the person quoted in their reply.

Its just a common understood courtesy that with long posts (The OP being a GREAT example) that you don't quote it, you just reply. When you reply to a thread it's pretty much understood that you're replaying to the original post, unless you specifically quote someone else's reply. The idea being that the OP in the thread really doesn't need to be replied to, so most people don't (especially with exceedingly large posts) as a courtesy to most readers, who are on their phone. 

Some people aren't aware of this, and some people are and intentionally do it to piss people off or mistakenly think they are funny. If you've ever viewed JN on your phone, imagine what it would be like trying to read through replies is multiple people quoted that OP. 

If you quote a @Sperm Edwards post, the thread auto locks.

[LIJetsFan]

5 hours ago, jetlaw said:

I would give the first draft a B-. I would’ve take wirfs over beckon. 

I stopped reading here.

[Wonderboy]

16 hours ago, Jetster said:

Are you saying we can't fill these needs this year? If so, I can completely disagree. The Jets can sign a Guard, draft a Center (Thuney- Josh Myers), I disagree about the starting back (they could committee Wilson (49ers, should be cheap enough), Perine & TY Johnson. 

They could sign a free agent WR, and draft 1 at #23 or #34. And they could maybe trade for a Kwon Alexander from the Saints with a late pick. 

Jets have almost 100 million. Henry Anderson? Gone. Alex Lewis? Gone. Greg Van ROTTEN? Gone. That's 17 more million added to our cap! 

We wont miss one of them! Then you have 9 draft picks! Maybe more if we trade out of #2. JD set himself up to make hay this offseason. Saleh doesn't come here without the assets built here for this offseason. 

They are going to FINISH these lines. Both offensive & defensive so they can operate under any adverse conditions. Pass rushers (Edge), OLB, Guard, Center. Maybe even upgrade Fant? They save 8 million cutting or trading Fant. Ryan Ramczyk? Anyone here that wouldn't want to give up a late pick and take on his salary (3 million more than Fant) would be nuts. 

JDs got numerous ways to skin a cat this offseason & fill every hole (starters) on this team. Obviously depth takes 3/4 years. 

Good stuff. My cat however takes offense.  

[MichaelScott]

14 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Lol I use my phone all the time...

I don't even know how to respond alwhat a ridiculous thing to make up. Must be a millennial thing. Maybe most people don't know about your made up courtesy thing because we just scroll down....

I've been posting and scrolling down on jet nation for along time this is a first. Thanks for explaining because I literally had no idea what you were talking about.

Its really not that serious. I apologize if I came across as attacking you. Not a big deal if you have no idea what I'm talking about but I can assure you I most certainly didn't just make that up. There are definitely plenty of people will tell you the same thing. Anyway like I said, its not that serious. The insane length of the OP is exactly the type of post some here intentionally quote to break balls, and some do it a lot. 

 

[Shockwave]

Firstly - Thank you OP for taking the time to write that. It was a good read my man. 

Personally I think we saw an Ozzie Newsom disciple plain and simple that did a very good job but fine tuning was obviously needed. 

Some Notes:

1. We didn't have a long term scheme so hard to fault him for a few of these tweener guys. 

2. He prepared for Jamal's exit in the draft. Excellent. 

3. He prioritized the important positions. 

4. He put youth almost everywhere. 

5. The Mim's pick was pure brilliance. 

6. He moved up and down the draft board like a Damn Boss. Best in the league. 

7. He acquired many extra picks. 

8. He killed the Bryce Hall Pick. 

The guy has absolutely Studly upside for a GM. I think he needs to fine tune a few things which heavily involves drafting players specifically for our new scheme. It will be much easier to judge him now that we are in a long term scheme with a coach of his choosing. 

When your team is 2-14 it usually all looks bad. I think when we are closer to .500 next year it will be easier to judge individual picks but the concepts deployed, strategies and values the guy got were TOP NOTCH. 

Very excited to have Douglas as our GM

[GREENBEAN]

21 hours ago, clayton163v said:

Therein is another Joe trait.  He makes and takes ON THE CARD offers.  You cannot simply trade up or down on a whim.  You need a trade partner.  If the offer is not on the card, you must pick.  In the first and the second, we either were offering on the card compensation or were getting it.

Good post man. 

But I'mm unfamiliar with this term "On the card deal". What is that exactly?  Can you elaborate in some detail for me?  

[Sperm Edwards]

59 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

Good stuff. My cat however takes offense.  

 A man posting pictures of his pussycat in a football forum...

*sigh* 

[GREENBEAN]

55 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

Firstly - Thank you OP for taking the time to write that. It was a good read my man. 

Personally I think we saw an Ozzie Newsom disciple plain and simple that did a very good job but fine tuning was obviously needed. 

Some Notes:

1. We didn't have a long term scheme so hard to fault him for a few of these tweener guys. 

2. He prepared for Jamal's exit in the draft. Excellent. 

3. He prioritized the important positions. 

4. He put youth almost everywhere. 

5. The Mim's pick was pure brilliance. 

6. He moved up and down the draft board like a Damn Boss. Best in the league. 

7. He acquired many extra picks. 

8. He killed the Bryce Hall Pick. 

The guy has absolutely Studly upside for a GM. I think he needs to fine tune a few things which heavily involves drafting players specifically for our new scheme. It will be much easier to judge him now that we are in a long term scheme with a coach of his choosing. 

When your team is 2-14 it usually all looks bad. I think when we are closer to .500 next year it will be easier to judge individual picks but the concepts deployed, strategies and values the guy got were TOP NOTCH. 

Very excited to have Douglas as our GM

Well said. It's not realistic to judge a player accurately in their first season, and one like 2020 on the Adam Gase Jets. It's the philosophy, methods and strategy that I am most into. Macc never seemed to have an idea of what he wanted to build. Just a bunch of random inaccurately labeled BPA.  

JD came out of the gate and grabbed a huge LT and a 1st rd WR with his first two picks as a GM. That alone let me know that someone who gets it is in charge.  That all said, JD was a rookie.  He was and is bound to flub some of the picks and decisions. What I want to know is that our GM has a plan, knows how to build a team and is a solid talent evaluator.  Then I want to feel confident in his ability to come out on top of trades, FA  signings and price tags.

JD has done a very good job with all of it even including the few poor decisions such as Robbie or the Morgan pick.  

Nit picking during a year when half the league had major injury problems and we didn't have a preseason or training camp for the first time ever is really trying hard to remain negative imo.  

[Wonderboy]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 A man posting pictures of his pussycat in a football forum...

*sigh* 

Says the guy who wears a dunce cap

[Wonderboy]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 A man posting pictures of his pussycat in a football forum...

*sigh* 

I'd think twice before posting stuff like this. these guys might take offense.

 

[BurnleyJet]

9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The only pick I'm truly critical of at the moment would be Perine.  Maybe he'll show a lot more in a RB-friendly system, but from what we saw last season I was not impressed.  Ty Johnson, in the exact same scheme, outplayed him significantly.  I get that're two different style of backs, but I was expecting more out of Perine in the passing game.  

The rest of the picks were basically either solid or incomplete.  We all need to be willing to give guys like Davis and Zuniga time to make an impact.  I was wrong about Quinnen Williams in giving up too quickly there.  

The Perine I didn’t like, one thing you don’t need is a pedestrian Running back. He’s to slow, and I can see him out or kept as a specials player. When I look at the 49ers, I can see very fast running back who can break a big run. I don’t see that in Perine. Ty Johnson looks quick and can catch a ball too, he’s a keeper.

[BornJetsFan1983]

4 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

Its really not that serious. I apologize if I came across as attacking you. Not a big deal if you have no idea what I'm talking about but I can assure you I most certainly didn't just make that up. There are definitely plenty of people will tell you the same thing. Anyway like I said, its not that serious. The insane length of the OP is exactly the type of post some here intentionally quote to break balls, and some do it a lot. 

 

My bad not trying to be a dick either...I was oblivious to the perceived situation. Anyways interesting...

[Jetster]

4 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

The Perine I didn’t like, one thing you don’t need is a pedestrian Running back. He’s to slow, and I can see him out or kept as a specials player. When I look at the 49ers, I can see very fast running back who can break a big run. I don’t see that in Perine. Ty Johnson looks quick and can catch a ball too, he’s a keeper.

The Jets offense played in a phone booth because of Adam Gase insanely boring offense. I thought Perine ran hard, broke some tackles before he got hurt. Is he a starter? No, but he's a good third rotation guy that plays special teams. Wasn't he a 4th rounder? If he sticks & contributes? Hooray. 

[FidelioJet]

5 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

The Perine I didn’t like, one thing you don’t need is a pedestrian Running back. He’s to slow, and I can see him out or kept as a specials player. When I look at the 49ers, I can see very fast running back who can break a big run. I don’t see that in Perine. Ty Johnson looks quick and can catch a ball too, he’s a keeper.

That's the part of it that worries me about that pick.  It should have been very obvious to JD that he was simply too slow to be anything more than a jag at the NFL level. 

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

Says the guy who wears a dunce cap

OK, fair point.

6 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

I'd think twice before posting stuff like this. these guys might take offense.

 

Big cats ≠ domesticated pussycats. Plus black house cats are just creepy looking. 

I hope you at least made an effort to compensate by naming it Beast or Hannibal or something ironic. Or did you go with something wimpy/beta like Whiskers, Mittens, Darnold, etc.?

We need to know. Your card is in danger of reaching revocation status . 

[NYJ1]

Our drafting for the past decade was straight garbage, so Joe coming long is a breath of fresh air at least last year. We'll see how capable he is over the long haul, but IMO he yielded like 4 starters out of the draft. That, to me is excellent return. I'm not overly impressed with Perine or Davis right now, but let's see what they can be developed into.

I'm most looking forward to the upcoming draft. I'm thinking with so much draft capital and the opportunity to trade down and rake in that much more picks? This could be a draft changes this team for the next 4 to 6 years. It's exciting to watch a talented professional like JD build this team. It's fun to be guessing when chemistry comes together and this team officially turns the corner and becomes a force to be reckoned with. My guess is assuming this draft is the watershed of talent I think it will be, some time next season the light comes on and the team becomes much better.

[docdhc]

18 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

When someone quotes an exceptionally long post like that it just makes it obscene for people who are viewing the website on a cellphone because you have to scroll endlessly to pass by the huge post that the person quoted in their reply.

Its just a common understood courtesy that with long posts (The OP being a GREAT example) that you don't quote it, you just reply. When you reply to a thread it's pretty much understood that you're replaying to the original post, unless you specifically quote someone else's reply. The idea being that the OP in the thread really doesn't need to be replied to, so most people don't (especially with exceedingly large posts) as a courtesy to most readers, who are on their phone. 

Some people aren't aware of this, and some people are and intentionally do it to piss people off or mistakenly think they are funny. If you've ever viewed JN on your phone, imagine what it would be like trying to read through replies is multiple people quoted that OP. 

I never knew this but will keep it in mind in the future.

[vic]

Am totally against giving up tons of draft picks for Watson- stay the course, draft Wilson or stay with Sam, no quick fixes!


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[Wonderboy]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

OK, fair point.

Big cats ≠ domesticated pussycats. Plus black house cats are just creepy looking. 

I hope you at least made an effort to compensate by naming it Beast or Hannibal or something ironic. Or did you go with something wimpy/beta like Whiskers, Mittens, Darnold, etc.?

We need to know. Your card is in danger of reaching revocation status . 

Darnold LOLOLOLOL I'm renaming him Sperm LOLOLOLOL

[ljr]

Biggest plus to me was the maneuvering up & down

He has players assigned values (I’m sure some adjustments made in them based on our areas of need)

Then makes moves to get the best value with his picks (instead of looking for 1 specific player or another... as far as I can tell)

I feel the not double-dipping at WR was a mistake ... and didn’t like the Morgan or Perrine picks

That being said... if he had them with notable highest grades at those times , I like the fact that he stuck to his guns strategically


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[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

Darnold LOLOLOLOL I'm renaming him Sperm LOLOLOLOL

Yes, Sperm is a good name, too.

[PepPep]

I think JD/Jets Brass actually really liked the upside of Clark. You make it sound like they just drafted him because he was friends with Becton, lol. Maybe he was 'over-drafted' but his tape shows him absolutely dominating in college, even though its conference USA. He is versatile, a great leader, he fits the mold of an NFL Guard who can move over to RT in a jiffy if needed. Even as backups, those guys are crucial. I think Gase stuck with the vets and the Jets had a plethora of interior linemen veterans so Clark was buried. Maybe under a different coach or under different circumstances he would have gotten a chance. I think Jets are high on Clark and he will have a shot to compete for a starting spot next year if he shows up to camp in shape and ready to compete. Right now nobody has a stranglehold on either G position. Elflein played well but he's a FA and struggled in pass protection.  

[DoubleDecker]

There it is! I was waiting for a post on last season's draft and thank you for making good one.  I'm interested in seeing everyone just make the jump year 2.  This year was unique especially for alot of the 3rd rounders, I still have hope for zuninga and davis with Saleh at the helm.  At least there is youth at these key places if any of them hit.  Hall, Becton, and Mims look the part at least!

[clayton163v]

On 1/23/2021 at 10:52 PM, Irish Jet said:

The others picks are all looking pretty bad right now. Not doubling/tripling up at WR with the depth that draft had was criminal. Plenty of productive guys went late. Wasn’t the time for an experimental QB or a nothing RB. 

No disrespect intended, but aren't you trying to say you wanted somebody else instead of the guys we drafted?

To each his own, but Leo and Adams were forever being trashed because the poster wanted the Jets to draft somebody else as opposed to poor play by these long-term NFL starters. 

I think Perine was drafted to be a committee back who could play specials.  I think he showed us exactly that.  As for Morgan, who knows?  The guy may turn out to be Mahomes.  We will know more next year when I hope he makes the jump to backup and is active game in and game out.

As for productive wideouts who went late, yes there were a few who have contributed.  There are many more who have not done diddly.  You have to concede that by the fourth round, the deep class had been thoroughly picked.  There were many excellent prospects but they went earlier than their draft-grade.  The only teams that got a bargain - as measured by their predraft grade - was the Jets with Mims and the Steelers with Claypool.  While some guys have showed promise - such as 4th round Gabriel Davis with the Bills - he carried a 4th round grade.  He may have worked out, but he was no bargain.  The Bills payed full price.  The Jets can take a chance on a similar guy in the fourth round next year too. 

The hope with a deep class is a player falling due to simple numbers.  I did not want us to double up in round 4-7.  I wanted the BAP with the emphasis on special teams, long-term development or a bargain with an injury history.  I think that is exactly what Joe Douglas did.

[Prodigal Syndicate]

Too early to close the case on the draft, but so far early returns are we got 1 good player.

People were doing mental gymnastics trying to tell you it was a great draft but the results so far are the opposite.

 

Let's hope we see some guys step up next season.

[Prodigal Syndicate]

On 23/01/2021 at 7:52 PM, Irish Jet said:

The draft was basically Becton and a bunch of injuries. And he couldn’t miss with either Becton/Wirfs.

Mims showed glimpses of talent but also some concerning limitations. Needs a full camp before we can judge though.

The others picks are all looking pretty bad right now. Not doubling/tripling up at WR with the depth that draft had was criminal. Plenty of productive guys went late. Wasn’t the time for an experimental QB or a nothing RB. 

Taking a punter when we already had a serviceable one, and a project QB in your first draft when the team has almost 0 talent is some bone headed stuff. Those are the types of picks you make when your team is already loaded.

[#27TheDominator]

I don't know. 

I liked the Clark pick.  I get that you like ourlads, but I don't see how one draft guide having a guy as a 6th makes him overdrafted.  He was one of the more intriguing later round tackle prospects from what I read.  If your GM is going to just follow the guides, what is the point?  So far Clark has not worked out, but time will tell. 

I did not like the Perine pick.  He seemed like a capable enough guy, but a bit slow.  I kind of feel like @BurnleyJet about him.  He doesn't seem fast enough for what these guys like, I think there are scrap heap guys they may prefer.

Going with Darnold this year and not drafting a QB because "sunk cost" sounds like pure insanity to me.  It is not "trying to be a contender in 2021."  It is trying to solve the QB problem.  They aren't having #2 overall again next year, and if they do I think Douglas probably belongs out on his ass.  They have access to good QBs.  They either need to find somebody or tie their futures to Darnold.  I don't know about any of you, but I don't see anything that would make me jump on board the Darnold train right now.  

I like Becton and he has been good, but I probably don't feel as highly as much of the board.  He missed time and his conditioning was always going to be a concern.  I don't see why his potential is better than Wirfs.   Wirfs wasn't a 3 sigma guy, but he was like 2.4.  Something like a 99.1% athlete among NFL linemen.  Physically Wirfs is as good as there is, and Becton being big does not change that.  More potential than Thomas?  Sure.  Wills?   Maybe, but WIrfs?  I don't see it.

[Irish Jet]

On 1/23/2021 at 3:28 PM, DetroitRed said:

Very solid draft.  WhIch teams did better?

Wirfs played RT, Btw

Tampa, comfortably. Wirfs and Winfield are two of the best in the league already.

San Diego, Cincy, Washington, KC, Minnesota, Pittsburgh all with multiple starters playing at a very high level. Creative higher than Mims.

Mac seems to have obliterated expectations on this place because it is ridiculous how overrated this draft class is. Just seeing guys on the field seems to be enough for some people. Becton was by a mile the best player which you’d expect for #11 and if you were going tackle that you couldn’t miss with Wirfs available anyways.