If Bill Bellichick was such a genius,, then why didn't they keep Tom Brady for 2 more seasons?

[Jet2020]

11 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Cam threw 8 touchdowns on 368 passes. Hard to be that bad.

He had 12 rushing TDs, plus a receiving. Belichicken used him as a runner a lot near goal lines. To me, that’s 21 TDs. Darnold had 11 in 12. 

[choon328]

4 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

Nonsense. Bill Belicheck is a great coach.  He was a great DC with the Giants and he's been a great HC in the NFL.  Bypass all the hate mongering and look at the total picture.  Belicheck knows how to substitute talent and get eth most out of his players.  It was Belicheck who drafted Brady IN THE 6TH ROUIND no less. Of course like any HC/GM he's had his miscues but he is a master of flexing his roster and moving chess pieces around.  He's been able to put out a competitive product year after year. That's impressive.  He's a great teacher which is what coaching is all about.  There's been many great coaches that didn't get their acclaim.  There is more to coaching than winning.  Lombardi didn't win in Washington. Does that make him a loser.  Brady and Belicheck just came together at the right time.  It was Belicheck who took teh risk and stayed with Brady over Bledsoe who was already an accomplished QB at the time.  If anything, I credit Belicheck with Brady's success more than the other way around. 

Lol,  Bledsoe was not good in 2000. Brady played much better in relief of him in 2001 than Bledsoe had played in years. Between that, their ages and the contract difference it was a no brainer decision to keep Brady over Bledsoe. 

People forget that in BB's first year in NE he went 5-11 with Bledsoe then started 0-2 in 2001 with Bledsoe before he got hurt and Brady came in and went 11-3 and led them to the SB.Mo Lewis had more to do with BB's success then BB had to do with Bradys. 

[elvispookie]

9 hours ago, jgb said:

2008 when he went 11-5 with Matt Cassell. Lol. That might be his best coaching year. Just funny that when it comes to NE, we all agree Brady is incredibly important but then continue playing Excuse Twister for Darnold because "A QB isn't able to have an impact in this situation" and then maliging Watson despite elite performance because his defense gave up a mountain of points and they only won 4 games. Intellectual honesty is more important than farming upvotes from Jets fans.

I cannot agree with this more.  I have said this forever.  QB is THE most important position on a TEAM sport.  FQBs MAKE the entire roster better.  I've had arguements on here about, aside from Moss, who has Brady thrown to? and if you throw out some of those names and say "he was pretty good".. that was because of Brady.  Put Brady on the Jets now and Mims looks like a WR1.  No doubt.  But hey Darnold.. "we can win with him".. ugh.. no he is not making anyone better.. Watson will but I would only invest for the right price... which isnt too far off what they are asking.

[Wonderboy]

55 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Lol,  Bledsoe was not good in 2000. Brady played much better in relief of him in 2001 than Bledsoe had played in years. Between that, their ages and the contract difference it was a no brainer decision to keep Brady over Bledsoe. 

People forget that in BB's first year in NE he went 5-11 with Bledsoe then started 0-2 in 2001 with Bledsoe before he got hurt and Brady came in and went 11-3 and led them to the SB.Mo Lewis had more to do with BB's success then BB had to do with Bradys. 

Fair point. But remember when Brady was injured and Bledsoe returned to win the playoff game. Belicheck put Brady back into the starting role and they went on to win the SB.  Coaching decision.  Bottom line - if it wasn't for Belicheck, Brady would be selling insurance to Mahomes and Rodgers.

[choon328]

22 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

Fair point. But remember when Brady was injured and Bledsoe returned to win the playoff game. Belicheck put Brady back into the starting role and they went on to win the SB.  Coaching decision.  Bottom line - if it wasn't for Belicheck, Brady would be selling insurance to Mahomes and Rodgers.

Bledsoe went 10-21 for 102 yds that game.  Again, the decision to bring back Brady was obvious. Mahomes and Rodgers can't hold Bradys jock strap and that has nothing to do with BB. He's been a terrible HC without Brady and that's not going to change. He'll retire after another 6-7 win season next year without Brady.

[hungry jackson]

On 1/24/2021 at 6:47 PM, Untouchable said:

Because Belichick isn’t a genius

He just lucked into the greatest QB to ever step on a football field in the 6th round.

Without Brady, Belichick is what he is. A mediocre coach with a career losing record.

Bend over Belichick.

[docdhc]

10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Again, I think that’s an oversimplification. One wasn’t left coaching the equivalent team that the other left to QB. Coaching a depleted NE roster isn’t an equal measure of QBing for a team with a loaded roster and with competent coaching. No doubt it’s nuts that he’s even still in the league at 43. 

In 19 seasons Brady went to a conference championship 14 times(74%!) and 10 Super Bowls(53%!). Whatever arguments you make about coaching and teammates you can’t ignore those stats. He just wins. Rodgers for all his talent had the ball in his hands several times at the end of the half and the game and couldn’t get his team in the end zone. Brady has always been able to score in the clutch like the TD at the end of the half and always makes the first down when he needs it to win the game. Even the 2 Super Bowls lost to the Giants he led 4 th quarter drives to take the lead only to see his defense give up miracle last minute plays to Eli Manning. He threw for 505 yards and 3 tds against the Eagles in his other loss and was strip sacked to get him off the field at the end. The clutch drives against the Rams for the winning fg, the comeback against the Falcons, the 4th quarter drive against the Seahawks, the examples are endless. No qb in history has won more than 4 or been in more than 4 Super Bowls and Brady is going to number 10. He performs in the clutch better than anyone ever has for longer than anyone has and no one will ever match it. Many qbs with as much or more physical talent during his era, Favre, Manning, Brees, Rodgers haven’t come close. It’s time to tip the hat and just surrender to the facts that this guy who has made our lives miserable for 20 years is the undisputed GOAT. 

[Anthony Jet]

4 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

Brady win 5 here? That awful QB play we had, got us 2 plus the Raiders freebie. Essentially 3. Brady easily win 8 here. 

Switch AG with BB and we win every bit of 6

[clayton163v]

I think Brady left the Patriots. He did not wish to stay.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, elvispookie said:

I cannot agree with this more.  I have said this forever.  QB is THE most important position on a TEAM sport.  FQBs MAKE the entire roster better.  I've had arguements on here about, aside from Moss, who has Brady thrown to? and if you throw out some of those names and say "he was pretty good".. that was because of Brady.  Put Brady on the Jets now and Mims looks like a WR1.  No doubt.  But hey Darnold.. "we can win with him".. ugh.. no he is not making anyone better.. Watson will but I would only invest for the right price... which isnt too far off what they are asking.

FQBs make their own weaponz, not the other way around.  Moss didn’t elevate Brady from terrible to amazing. He moved him from amazing to ridiculously amazing. Brady was pretty damn good before and after. A FQB has such an enormous impact he shows it regardless of situation and I ain’t talking the occasional “flash” play. He does what Watson did — plays out of his cleats on a bad team that still loses a lot of games. Even a guy like Tannehill who is not elite showed it in Miami with three 4,000 yard season and everyone except a handful of geniuses (?) wrote him off. What the H-E-double-L has Darnold ever shown?

[Sperm Edwards]

11 hours ago, docdhc said:

In 19 seasons Brady went to a conference championship 14 times(74%!) and 10 Super Bowls(53%!). Whatever arguments you make about coaching and teammates you can’t ignore those stats. He just wins. Rodgers for all his talent had the ball in his hands several times at the end of the half and the game and couldn’t get his team in the end zone. Brady has always been able to score in the clutch like the TD at the end of the half and always makes the first down when he needs it to win the game. Even the 2 Super Bowls lost to the Giants he led 4 th quarter drives to take the lead only to see his defense give up miracle last minute plays to Eli Manning. He threw for 505 yards and 3 tds against the Eagles in his other loss and was strip sacked to get him off the field at the end. The clutch drives against the Rams for the winning fg, the comeback against the Falcons, the 4th quarter drive against the Seahawks, the examples are endless. No qb in history has won more than 4 or been in more than 4 Super Bowls and Brady is going to number 10. He performs in the clutch better than anyone ever has for longer than anyone has and no one will ever match it. Many qbs with as much or more physical talent during his era, Favre, Manning, Brees, Rodgers haven’t come close. It’s time to tip the hat and just surrender to the facts that this guy who has made our lives miserable for 20 years is the undisputed GOAT. 

I don't need Brady's resume. What I find silly is the somehow satisfying idea - from Jets fans, no less - that it's all him & it was always all him? It's a fantasy to suggest his HC who jilted us at the altar (never mind each individual player on defense) was nothing but a passenger going along for the ride as a pure beneficiary. It's so ridiculous that I'd wonder if most of these commenters watched more than TD pass highlight clips of the Patriots before Moss-Welker, that they never saw the disproportionately uncalled holding for most of his career, and that - cheating and more - he wasn't also an extreme beneficiary of it all (not to mention all the things they did without getting caught, like the funny headset problems that visiting teams found so common in Foxboro it was a running joke for a while; then as teams shifted to more signs he'd send videographers to the opponents' sidelines, with Brady an extreme beneficiary of it all).

What all the one-sided analysis fails to address - even more damning as it's coinciding with what it's attempting to diminish - is all the QBs you've listed all played for teams with demonstrably worse and/or changing coaching, or just cheated less (if at all). e.g. I don't recall Brady having to pass his way into overcoming season-long defenses ranked 28th through 32nd even once, let alone for 4 years of a 5-year span like Brees, including one where his HC was suspended (for not stopping a doucebag contest, not for cheating, for which Belichick has spent zero suspension games). You can count on one hand the number of non top-10 defenses Brady's had to overcome in 20 years, and big shocker here, he has zero rings in each such instance; the closest being 2011 with a defense that was merely 15th in points-surrendered for him & the offense to overcome, where he & the offense put up 17 points against the Giants' bottom-3 pass defense, only to have his adoring fans place all blame on his OL -- an excuse that's somehow valid for Brady and no one else, including Rodgers just 2 days ago.

He's also the only QB in memory who has been suspended for a month for cheating & destroying evidence, etc. More than just for under-inflated footballs - which was knowingly illegal and he did it anyway - his suspension was an attempt at payback for all the cheating, from which he greatly benefitted, and did so with impunity. He also had an underhanded relationship worked out with the team, selling a bull***t product to them so he could get paid outside the salary cap & keep his cap number artificially low (enabling the team to add/keep players they'd have otherwise lost). The only one who even touched on that was Elway but even then the motivation was different (if Bowlen is/was to be believed), and the amounts in question were far less and for far less time. Also Elway's an obnoxious dirtbag himself, so there's that. I don't know that it's any lower than pushing his snake oil pill to prey upon and profit from his fans' legitimate covid fears. 

No doubt he's had an impossibly successful career, and if there's an argument to be made that he isn't the best ever then he's not far off, but find a new hero. I mean, your post above may as well have been written on stationary, sprayed with perfume, and mailed to him.

Just because Belichick is/was a cheating dirtbag it doesn't therefore mean Brady isn't/wasn't because he then waltzed into a cushy situation with Tampa while Belichick was coaching a QB-less + depleted roster (from covid & injuries) that existed on few other teams, and still somehow came within spitting distance of .500 anyway. It's like saying, "Ooh, one sprinter was still fast in his running flats while the other was slower when he was barefoot with a lead ball & chain clasped to his ankle. Proof positive, yo."

I revert to my prior summaries. F*** them both and f*** any attempts to whitewash over their documented and undocumented indiscretions. They've both benefitted from each other, keeping each others' filthy cheating secrets for years, and the only thing that I find even remotely satisfying is the idea that neither douchebag can stand being in a room with the other after 20 years together.

[kelly]

ugghhh,.. guys,  brady might win ANOTHER sb   ?

 

 

 

cheers ~ ~ 

[jgb]

44 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No doubt he's had an impossibly successful career, and if there's an argument to be made that he isn't the best ever then he's not far off, but find a new hero. I mean, your post above may as well have been written on stationary, sprayed with perfume, and mailed to him.

 

[Philc1]

19 hours ago, clayton163v said:

I think Brady left the Patriots. He did not wish to stay.

Nope.  They forced him out and refused to extend or resign him last offseason and that was spearheaded by Belichick 

[Philc1]

On 1/25/2021 at 8:50 AM, slimjasi said:

Belichick has 6 losing seasons without Brady and will be 69 years old in April. 
 

He’s running out of time to change this narrative. And if Brady ever wins this SB (don’t think he will), forget about it 

Belichick is frustrated that he has never won anything without Brady.  Slowly everyone is finding out he’s the NFL’s Phil Jackson

 

The people who still worship Belichick either pathologically hate Brady and/or have digested 20 years of ESPN Boston fanboy Kool aid hype

[Coffee Is Great]

Belichick the coach is the GOAT, the problem of late is Belichick the GM. The Patriots have been terrible at drafting for years now, especially on the offensive side of the ball. They were in cap hell, short on talent, and backed into a corner. They are completely bereft of offensive talent right now. Brady left with good reason. I am certain Belichick wanted him back, unless he was prepared to begin a miniature rebuild.

Brady, like Montana, was the beneficiary of fantastic situations throughout his career. Some forget how dominant the Patriots defense was during those early championships, or, really, most of their championships. Brady was supported by a defense who ranked in the Top-8 in points allowed for eight of his nine Super Bowl trips. Eight of his 20 seasons in New England he had a Top 5 defense. His entire time in New England he had only three defenses who ranked in the bottom half of the league: 15th, 15th, and 17th. It was Belichick who led the defensive effort that stymied two historically great Rams offenses (interestingly book-ending Brady's SB trips in New England). Never forget at the peak of the NE dynasty they went 11-5 with Matt f'n Cassell under center.

Brady finally left New England to go to Tampa Bay, who's loaded with the second-best group of offensive weapons in the NFL and one of the best offensive minds in the sport.

As always, football is the ultimate team game and you need it all to win: Coaching and talent, etc. Brady did not carry Belichick, Belichick did not carry Brady.

 

 

[nyjunc]

On 1/25/2021 at 12:54 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

My point is more that you can’t just plug in unequal ingredients and then equally judge what was cooked. 

Never mind that including Belichick’s Cleveland years is meh evidence. He’s considered a top coach because of the HC he grew into with NE in his 50s; not the HC he was with Cleveland years earlier when he wasn’t ready for it at age 40. 

Kind of like judging Pete Carroll 2014-2020 and saying, “Yeah but look at that year he had as HC of the NYJ” as though it’s relevant.

Likewise - and I don’t see this happening, mind you - if Gase is given another chance in 5+ years and in that time has matured into a better and more complete HC, I’d judge him on that not his tenure with the Dolphins & Jets when he wasn’t. 

It’s too much of a whitewashing oversimplification to suggest a HC, after another decade of much-needed experience, is the same HC he was before it happened. Just like Brady wasn’t as good of a QB in 2002 as he was in 2010, and I’m sure he’d be the first to say so. 

I agree he became a much better coach thanks to Brady buying him time.  Without Brady emerging that never happens but I don't believe he's the best HC of all time, not even close.

[Bruce Harper]

He wanted him but he low-balled him and he walked. And Brady also wanted some receivers to throw to.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[afjetsfan]

I'm no Belichick fan, but there are plenty of head coaches that sh*t the bed with Franchise QBs.  Packers, Steelers, Lions, Chargers, Saints, Seahawks, Falcons....all teams with Coaches that had long tenured top 10 QBs that never came close to accomplishing what BB did.  So, yes Brady made BB, but Matt Ryan, Ben R., Drew B., Wilson, Aaron R, all would've allowed BB to win many Super bowls.  Not debating whether Brady is better than all of these QBs, but to say BB was just some sh*t coach with a GOAT QB is ridiculous.  

Belichick admitted that over the last few years the team mortgaged the future to win.  Once the party was over, Brady left and BB is now trying to rebuild a team at the end of his career.  Ideally, BB should've retired after the last SB they won and gone out on top.  

[Philc1]

11 games under .500 without Tom doing everything is what it is