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Smoke Meet Fire... Fire Let’s Get a Deal Done!


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1 hour ago, football guy said:

I don't want to fuel another thread on this, but might as well say it: 

The reason why we're seeing all these media narratives that he wants out if Houston is because Watson has absolutely zero power. His reps need to do something to try and make it seem like Watson has a say, but he doesn't... they're trying to force the Texans hand because the Texans hold all of the cards, and if Watson wants to go the sabotage route the Texans can just fine him. His reps know the Texans won't trade him, hence why they're airing out the grievances in the media. Is it possible the Texans trade him? Of course. But they will do it if they want to do it, not because Watson wants it. 

Matthew Stafford is going to get traded. Did we hear any of this nonsense? Nope., because the team and he mutually agreed. If Detroit said no, you'd probably see a lot of the same "Stafford wants out" getting aired out in the media as well. 

Yes but it appears it’s working. Texans showed their hand by already having internal discussions about trading Watson. Also Schefter reported he believes there are some in Houston who think they have seen Watson and play his last game for the Texans. Adam would not have said that unless he had sources inside Houston telling him that. It feels like the Rubicon has been crossed. Also Houston ownership is a mess and may not realize that they hold all the cards, very emotional down there - not rationale.

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51 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

It seems if a quality player wants out publicly, he has leverage to me...

Ofcourse he does. Deshaun Watson's agent is going to get him out of there just like he got Jalen Ramsey out of Jax. 

What was it a whole 10 minutes after Houston put out their HC finalist that Deshaun's agent leaked the HC is too little too late?

Now the lead reporter for the Texans that said a trade would not happen is Tweeting trade ideas to the Jets?

Deshaun is getting traded. Perhaps it won't be to us - But its Happening. Then JJ Watt will be traded next along with whatever other assets they could get picks for. 

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1 hour ago, Larz said:

You guys realize that you have to give away equivalent value to get him., right?

Didnt we just go through the whole “we have a QB but no team around him “ deal?

what was his record without Hopkins?

He had 4900 yds and 30+ tds with nothing great at wr

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1 hour ago, Larz said:

You guys realize that you have to give away equivalent value to get him., right?

Didnt we just go through the whole “we have a QB but no team around him “ deal?

what was his record without Hopkins?

Wait, when did we have a QB?

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3 hours ago, football guy said:

The reason why we're seeing all these media narratives that he wants out if Houston is because Watson has absolutely zero power. His reps need to do something to try and make it seem like Watson has a say, but he doesn't... they're trying to force the Texans hand because the Texans hold all of the cards, and if Watson wants to go the sabotage route the Texans can just fine him. His reps know the Texans won't trade him, hence why they're airing out the grievances in the media. Is it possible the Texans trade him? Of course. But they will do it if they want to do it, not because Watson wants it. 

Matthew Stafford is going to get traded. Did we hear any of this nonsense? Nope., because the team and he mutually agreed. If Detroit said no, you'd probably see a lot of the same "Stafford wants out" getting aired out in the media as well. 

Watson does have some power, and he’s already damaged the Texans by using it.  The bad press and uncertainty caused by his unhappiness has already torpedoed the Texans’ coaching search.  At this point, all Houston has left are the coaching candidates that the 6 other teams with vacancies didn’t want - coaches that are desperate for a shot.  The front office mess was bad enough, but add a possible ugly conflict with the team’s star player and no strong candidate wants to go there.

So what are they telling guys like Leslie Frazier and Bienemy?  “Hey, maybe you can talk some sense into him if we hire you, and if not we’ll fine him until he submits and we’ll sign Jacoby Brissett in the meantime?”  Or would they be better off presenting a plan where they can cash Watson in for a few first rounders and go forward with their choice of Fields or Wilson with the resources to rebuild?

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6 minutes ago, MykePM said:

Watson does have some power, and he’s already damaged the Texans by using it.  The bad press and uncertainty caused by his unhappiness has already torpedoed the Texans’ coaching search.  At this point, all Houston has left are the coaching candidates that the 6 other teams with vacancies didn’t want - coaches that are desperate for a shot.  The front office mess was bad enough, but add a possible ugly conflict with the team’s star player and no strong candidate wants to go there.

So what are they telling guys like Leslie Frazier and Bienemy?  “Hey, maybe you can talk some sense into him if we hire you, and if not we’ll fine him until he submits and we’ll sign Jacoby Brissett in the meantime?”  Or would they be better off presenting a plan where they can cash Watson in for a few first rounders and go forward with their choice of Fields or Wilson with the resources to rebuild?

The Texans coaching search was doomed far before the Watson theatrics. It was by far the worst situation in the league for anyone who had the ability to look past the QB.

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4 hours ago, football guy said:

I don't want to fuel another thread on this, but might as well say it: 

The reason why we're seeing all these media narratives that he wants out if Houston is because Watson has absolutely zero power. His reps need to do something to try and make it seem like Watson has a say, but he doesn't... they're trying to force the Texans hand because the Texans hold all of the cards, and if Watson wants to go the sabotage route the Texans can just fine him. His reps know the Texans won't trade him, hence why they're airing out the grievances in the media. Is it possible the Texans trade him? Of course. But they will do it if they want to do it, not because Watson wants it. 

Matthew Stafford is going to get traded. Did we hear any of this nonsense? Nope., because the team and he mutually agreed. If Detroit said no, you'd probably see a lot of the same "Stafford wants out" getting aired out in the media as well. 

well he can pull a James Harden.

Rockets didnt want to trade him either, untill he kept coming in late for practice that teammates like Russell Westbrook had to speak up about it. heard he was out of shape  and badmouthing the team too. then the team really doesnt have much of a choice if hes going to be a problem like that.

i heard Watsons a good guy, but if he really wants out and they dont give it to him.....

then if a trade is on, he has a lot of power with his " no trade clause"

i really hope Watson stays . cause once you give into one player it will open up Pandoras Box and the NFL will become the NBA.

 

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Trading for Watson is a no brainer & will put this team in a position to have arguably a top 5 QB under a good contract for the foreseeable future, solidifying the most important position on the field.
They would still have a bunch of picks & $$$ for FA's , by cutting a bunch of dead wood from their roster , along with trading Sam for a possible 2nd or 3rd rounder .
You also have to factor in the notion that it's between Miami & the Jets who Watson wants to play for... if Joe D let Watson go to the Dolphins & do to us what Brady did for years over in NE , fans would absolutely kill him over not making the deal.

Let's face it , draft picks are nothing but lottery tickets ... they're a big gamble , one that can set your franchise back years if you make the wrong pick, as we know all to well.
We've been picking high in the draft for years and continue to be one of the worst teams in the league , what does that tell us... it tells me that when you've got a known commodity at the most important position on the field available to you , you make the deal.

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10 hours ago, JetsYanks13 said:


That’s his opinion, doesn’t make him right. He wouldn’t know a good QB or good coach if he saw one. The ones he played with or was coached by as well as his teams sucked. On another note, he hates the Jets so he can go F himself.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

ALL of this is opinion.  However, the opinion of a HOF player should carry a little more weight than an internet poster.  Then again, look at the times we live in.

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Now that KC & TB has moved on to the SB..... Leslie Frazier may get hired over Biennemy because Houston has to get this coaching vacancy filled to see if Watson can be appeased. Do they risk waiting another 2-3 weeks to get Biennemy? I doubt it.

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13 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

I don’t agree. The best coaches can make the middling QB’s really good with plays that manufacture open men, easy throws, easier reads, etc. Now you absolutely need the guy to make decent decision but nah coaches are not 1/10th as important.

The best defensive coaches can make those middling QB's look middling in big spots. 

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14 hours ago, choon328 said:

Stunad

 

14 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Way to make it personal little man. 

 

14 hours ago, choon328 said:

Way to spam the board little girl

Please knock it off and feel free to use the Jetnation ignore function. Thanks. 

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13 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I just don't buy it.

If Watson is as good as I'm being told by all of you...he should be able to carry his team to at least being competitive. 

If he isn't then I certainly don't want to trade away 3 first round picks for him.

In the 15 years ESPN has been tracking defensive efficiency they have graded 480 teams, the 2020 Texans were ranked 478.

By comparison, Watson is now 1 of 4 QB in the history of the league to have at least a 70% completion percentage and 8.5 yards per attempt in a season. The other 3 are Montana, Young, and Brees, all of which won a SB the year they did that.

 

In short, it does take a team to win but Watson's team was historically bad. Unless the Jets are one of the other 2 teams in the last 15 years that are worse than the Texans, I'd say he'd be coming to a stronger defense.

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6 hours ago, roscoeword said:

if he wasn't happy with the Texans, why should he want to come to the Jets. Because we're big winners?

Unlike Adams Watson thinks he will win anywhere there is a functioning GM and HC.

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Some Jets fans want Watson as bad as Ralphie wanted that official Red Ryder carbine action, 200 shot, range model air rifle with a compass in the stock, and this thing that tells time. Uncle Joey is planning on giving Jets fans Zach Wilson in a pink bunny suit. 

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25 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The best defensive coaches can make those middling QB's look middling in big spots. 

Just depends which coach schemes better tbh. Coaches matter way more than 1/10th of what QB’s do tho. That is the point of the post...

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14 hours ago, football guy said:

First things first, any non-QB should even be mentioned. Second, a lot of these players were angling for new contracts, which is not similar to Watson who signed his agreement 5 months ago. Second, notice anything about many of these moves? The teams overpaid. Hence... the only way the Texans will move is if they're motivated to move. 

Eli Manning is a legitimate one, however, he wasn't even in the NFL yet and he threatened from Day 1 that he would not play for the team, period. Meanwhile, Giants severely overpaid to jump what amounted to 3 spots. 

Jamal Adams requested a trade after he heard the Jets were entertaining offers for him. Seahawks severely overpaid for him.  

Jalen Ramsey had become a problem in Jacksonville, fighting with the coaches and acting out in practice. He requested a trade because he didn't want to play on a losing team (he claimed it was because Coughlin and Caldwell said "disrespectful things" to him after a game which he got into a verbal altercation with the HC on the sideline." Coughlin was tired of the antics and saw that he was moved. 

Ngakoue was a contract dispute, and the Jags were unwilling to pay him a long-term contract. 

The Steelers wanted to move on from Antonio. 

 

You have yet to respond to my post from another thread where I pointed out that 6 QB's have requested/demanded trades since 1983, and all 6 got traded.  Elway, Joe Montana, Eli Manning, Favre, Jay Cutler and Carson Palmer all asked for trades, and all 6 got their wish. 

Add Stafford to that list too.  Because as much as its being reported as this being a "mutual" parting of ways, the Lions certainly weren't the first ones to bring it up.  This is more Stafford-driven than the Lions, and one of the Lions' beat reporters stated as much on ESPN radio the other day.  Certainly, the Lions don't mind moving on from Stafford either, but nothing is ever fully "mutual", either.  If it was up to Detroit, they wouldn't mind rolling with Stafford for one more season.  It merely makes sense to move on now as Detroit preps for yet another rebuild under a new coaching staff.

Meanwhile, can you name a QB who has demanded/requested a trade and it didn't happen?  Please list those if so.

If Watson chooses to demand a trade, he absolutely has leverage.  Organizations certainly have the power to fine a player and all that good stuff.  They just tend to not go that route, because they need draft capital and an upgrade at QB.  They're not going to roll into 2021 with no 1st round pick and AJ McCarron at QB.  They just aren't.  

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16 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

And I don’t give a damn if there are 15 other threads on this. 50% of those that voted want Watson.... I don’t give a crap about Buffalo/KC. I want Watson!

I suggest you start another thread ‘I, 32EBoozer, wants Watson’. I’m sure it will have great impact on the situation.

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15 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Oh with pat mahommes the jets would be playing right now for the chance to go to the super bowl with adam gase as coach.

Literally  no reason for the jets to change coaches this past season.  Just trade 5 first rounders for watson and all will be good.

Watson, gase and the jets as they are are easily a playoff team and most likely here in place of buffalo.

 

Totes.  The HC is way more important than the QB.  The data definitely supports this!  We certainly haven't seen the likes of Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, and even Matthew Stafford drag teams along with bad coaching staffs.  Never happens.  And have you been paying attention to how Bill Belichick is doing without Tom Brady?

Coaching matters.  But it does not matter as much as QB.  Mahomes would be elite anywhere.  Sam Darnold would suck anywhere.  If coaches really mattered more or as much as a QB, then coaches would get paid a lot more and QB's would get paid a lot less.

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1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

Some Jets fans want Watson as bad as Ralphie wanted that official Red Ryder carbine action, 200 shot, range model air rifle with a compass in the stock, and this thing that tells time. Uncle Joey is planning on giving Jets fans Zach Wilson in a pink bunny suit. 

@Mogglez has reported that Douglas is very much interested in Watson.  So, no.  If Watson comes available, the Jets will pursue him.  Period.

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