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3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

How many career playoff wins does Stafford have?

No shlt, the same as the how many SBs has Marino won.  

He played on the team with the worst playoff history in sports but thats your fallback argument when his HOF  numbers get in the way

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You guys are nuts ... I invite you to study his stats and come back to this discussion ... guy is a beast. Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

Just look at talent and situation...Sam has the tools and much better ability than stafford. I get it, it's hard to see for a casual watcher but stafford in on jets would have done worse than darnold

Hell no has everyone gone mad

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13 minutes ago, DirtyJersey said:

Stafford leaving a clusterF team and he wants to go to another one?  I dont see it.

 

I peg Stafford for Indy, because he will be cheaper than Rodgers. 

Feel me out on this.

-- Indy's #21 to the Lions for Stafford.  Ready made team, he stays in a dome, good offensive mind at coach, and he can be their qb for 5-8yrs.

--  Rodgers to the Redskins, for #19 this year and a 1st next year.  He gets a baby sh*t soft division, Rivera will let him do what he wants on offense, there is some talent there, Snyder loves to make a splash and has been desperate for a star qb since he bought the team.  Rodgers would make McLaurin a top 5 wr.

--  Watson stays put.  Texans be awful the next 2 yrs.  Hire Bienemy to placate the qb, knowing he will flop out as you rebuild 

-- Lions trade the 7, 21 & 72 picks in this draft, plus a first round pick next year, to the Jets for the #2 pick.

Give the Jets 3 first round picks in back to back years.  If Douglas is competent, that is Cowboys style rebuild.

 

That is all my over thinking for the day.

Rogers trade & compensation had be guffawing. Yea right! 

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How sad is it that our Jets are sitting at picks #2, #23 & #34 and some here are contemplating using draft capital to go after the 33 year old Matthew Stafford. First off it tells you how fast Sam Darnold has fallen in the eyes of Jet fans. I'm not worried about it because IT WON'T HAPPEN! 

They'll bring in Beathard or Mullins to run this offense & draft a QB before they would trade for Stafford. Of course that's if they don't believe in Darnold. They might bring 1 of those guys in anyway if they do keep Darnold because they already know the offense. 

The Watson trade is a pipe dream that I don't even want to think about. Of course I want Watson if it was possible. No brainer, which is why I can't even imagine the Texans trading him away. 

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22 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

First off it isn't  lime Stafford never played with talent.  He has had great WR in Megatron and Galloday. He just has not gotten that team over the hump. Secondly, Stafford won't want to play on the Jets.  

Galloday didnt even play this yr 

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20 minutes ago, DirtyJersey said:

Meh, greatest wr season, big deal.  They were 4-12.  All garbage time fantasy stats.

3 OT losses, 2 2point losses and 1 4 point loss doesn't indicate garbage time stats.  Garbage time is the result of points up or down not losses.  

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18 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No shlt, the same as the how many SBs has Marino won.  

He played on the team with the worst playoff history in sports but thats your fallback argument when his HOF  numbers get in the way

He also played in a division with one of the greatest QB's in NFL history for his entire career.  Sort of like winning the AFC east while Brady was on the Pats.

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22 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Rogers trade & compensation had be guffawing. Yea right! 

He is butthurt and he isnt getting this coach fired, so he is going to force his way out of GB.

It is actually a less douchey exit than Favre.

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14 minutes ago, Jetster said:

How sad is it that our Jets are sitting at picks #2, #23 & #34 and some here are contemplating using draft capital to go after the 33 year old Matthew Stafford. First off it tells you how fast Sam Darnold has fallen in the eyes of Jet fans. I'm not worried about it because IT WON'T HAPPEN! 

They'll bring in Beathard or Mullins to run this offense & draft a QB before they would trade for Stafford. Of course that's if they don't believe in Darnold. They might bring 1 of those guys in anyway if they do keep Darnold because they already know the offense. 

The Watson trade is a pipe dream that I don't even want to think about. Of course I want Watson if it was possible. No brainer, which is why I can't even imagine the Texans trading him away. 

I give Darnold a other year.  Next year is a rebuild.  With Darnold, with Watson, with whoever they get in the draft to play QB, anything over 4 wins will be a miracle.  

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1 minute ago, DirtyJersey said:

He is butthurt and he isnt getting this coach fired, so he is going to force his way out of GB.

It is actually a less douchey exit than Favre.

It's the compensation that made me laugh. Aaron Rogers for 2 first round picks? Khalil Mack & Jamal Adams were traded for more. 

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13 minutes ago, Biggs said:

He also played in a division with one of the greatest QB's in NFL history for his entire career.  Sort of like winning the AFC east while Brady was on the Pats.

Junk defense and best rb he had was lousy Reggie Bush, no?

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1 minute ago, Jetster said:

It's the compensation that made me laugh. Aaron Rogers for 2 first round picks? Khalil Mack & Jamal Adams were traded for more. 

Costs more and he aint as young as either of them.  What he have 2yrs left on his deal?

 

Checked.  3yrs on the deal. 

 

Ya wanna add a 5th this year and conditional 4/3 next year, fine.  Throw in a long snapper too, but it wont be 3 first round picks for a 37y/o qb.

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20 minutes ago, Biggs said:

3 OT losses, 2 2point losses and 1 4 point loss doesn't indicate garbage time stats.  Garbage time is the result of points up or down not losses.  

Sure.  So they blew leads or they threw the ball all around, to catch up, while the other team ate up clock?

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Just now, DirtyJersey said:

I give Darnold a other year.  Next year is a rebuild.  With Darnold, with Watson, with whoever they get in the draft to play QB, anything over 4 wins will be a miracle.  

I don't peg them at that few wins yet. You can transform a team tremendously with almost 100 million & 9 or possibly more (trade back scenario). Full camp, possible Mosely return, bunch of young players that got their feet wet in 2020, much better Oline (they might surprise & go crazy best Oline in NFL route with a Thuney signing & Sewell pick at #2, or a trade back & Rashawn Slater. 

Both of these guys, Joe Douglas & Robert Saleh believe in building big tough Oline that can move! You don't win in the NFL with a bunch of fast offensive players & a terrible Oline (look what happened as soon as Dallas Oline deteriorated), a team with Zeke, Cooper, Gallup & Lamb, couldn't win that horrible NFC East? still had a veteran QB in Dalton.

TEAM BUILDING. Parcells did the same thing here. 1st move? Trade for Kevin Mawae. Bills Oline couldn't keep Josh Allen clean (loss). Free agents I believe will be Oline (Guard or Center), edge rusher, OLB, #1 WR. 

Draft will be once again those premier positions, possibly QB, Oline, CB, Edge, WR, all BPA at one of those positions. 

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16 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Stafford has been pretty good in his career but he also has had some talent around him Megatron and now a couple WRs that are really good. Sam would easily be seen as better than stafford if careers were switched. But since Sam has been defrauded by the Jets since being here, you have peopel that think Stafford is a better QB, he is not.

lol

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12 hours ago, adb280z said:

On what metric is Sam better than Stafford?

The metric of "I FEEL Sam is better and because the Jets suck he is actually good."

Meanwhile he completely discounts the years where Stafford was a top 10 (or so) QB without Calvin Johnson or Kenny Golladay.  

It's a very fun alternative universe for these DarnoldBros.  

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21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The metric of "I FEEL Sam is better and because the Jets suck he is actually good."

Meanwhile he completely discounts the years where Stafford was a top 10 (or so) QB without Calvin Johnson or Kenny Golladay.  

It's a very fun alternative universe for these DarnoldBros.  

Even the most rudimentary research would show you tate, holding, home etc... and the most obvious better coaching... throughout his career that led him to success. Its not like he was going to Superbowls but actually scoring points yes. But if you look at those same games you can see him blow leads, make bad throws etc.

That darnold hate I understand, you want to win and somehow you expect him to have executed despite Gase gameplans and no weapons but that not very realistic to expect. The one season when we had gameplans and a nfl system that was not last in the league was his rookie year and he was playing at a high level the end of his rookie year.

So I don't think it's darnold bros it just not getting emotional about it. I see it for what it is. I mean your position or at least the stafford position is this guy is much better qb and we should run him untill we draft a guy...that somehow he is much better when you can literally point out star players, better gameplans etc... Give darnold just nfl level offense (non gase) and he was lighting up 3 TD games as a rook...under gase he could barely or score 1 td a game even against 3rd stringers of our new HC 

Idk. I guess I just don't understand the anti darnold because it was obvious to fans, sportswriters, garbageman, tv new anchors, carpenters and all of manners of people that darnold had never been the problem and the Jets just didn't help the kid out

 

 

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15 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Even the most rudimentary research would show you tate, holding, home etc... and the most obvious better coaching... throughout his career that led him to success. Its not like he was going to Superbowls but actually scoring points yes. But if you look at those same games you can see him blow leads, make bad throws etc.

That darnold hate I understand, you want to win and somehow you expect him to have executed despite Gase gameplans and no weapons but that not very realistic to expect. The one season when we had gameplans and a nfl system that was not last in the league was his rookie year and he was playing at a high level the end of his rookie year.

So I don't think it's darnold bros it just not getting emotional about it. I see it for what it is. I mean your position or at least the stafford position is this guy is much better qb and we should run him untill we draft a guy...that somehow he is much better when you can literally point out star players, better gameplans etc... Give darnold just nfl level offense (non gase) and he was lighting up 3 TD games as a rook...under gase he could barely or score 1 td a game even against 3rd stringers of our new HC 

Idk. I guess I just don't understand the anti darnold because it was obvious to fans, sportswriters, garbageman, tv new anchors, carpenters and all of manners of people that darnold had never been the problem and the Jets just didn't help the kid out

 

The Jets did Darnold no favors.  He also sucks at football all on his own.  The end. 

Let's all move on to a new QB, please.  It doesn't have to be Stafford but it has to be someone new.

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54 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

The point is, he never got this team to the playoffs on a regular  basis and he has a long record  of this. 

I'm not advocating for Jets to trade for him. He is a solid fit for niners or colts 

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22 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Even the most rudimentary research would show you tate, holding, home etc... and the most obvious better coaching... throughout his career that led him to success. Its not like he was going to Superbowls but actually scoring points yes. But if you look at those same games you can see him blow leads, make bad throws etc.

That darnold hate I understand, you want to win and somehow you expect him to have executed despite Gase gameplans and no weapons but that not very realistic to expect. The one season when we had gameplans and a nfl system that was not last in the league was his rookie year and he was playing at a high level the end of his rookie year.

So I don't think it's darnold bros it just not getting emotional about it. I see it for what it is. I mean your position or at least the stafford position is this guy is much better qb and we should run him untill we draft a guy...that somehow he is much better when you can literally point out star players, better gameplans etc... Give darnold just nfl level offense (non gase) and he was lighting up 3 TD games as a rook...under gase he could barely or score 1 td a game even against 3rd stringers of our new HC 

Idk. I guess I just don't understand the anti darnold because it was obvious to fans, sportswriters, garbageman, tv new anchors, carpenters and all of manners of people that darnold had never been the problem and the Jets just didn't help the kid out

 

 

You lost me on the last paragraph.  Darnold is the QB of the NY Jets.  He is part of the problem and he hasn't shown to date he can be part of the solution.  There is no obvious about it.  If you want to make the unemotional argument that you think with more talent around him and better coaching he will be a very good QB that's fine.  Saying it's unemotional and therefore might actually be a fact is irrelevant drivel.  

On further reading, he didn't really light it up in his rookie year.  He had some good moments.  In today's NFL good QB's don't show good moments.  They make great throws routinely all the time.  They throw lots of TD's they throw for 4,000 yards with 65% completion percentages all the time.  That's just the good NFL QB's not the elite ones.  

In 2018 by completion percentage the 15th ranked QB in that category who happened to be Stafford had a 67.9 completion percentage. Sam was at 57.7.  The 15th ranked NFL QB in TD's, Mitch Trubesky had 24 TD passes.  Sam had 17.  The 15th ranked QB in QBR was Ben Roethlisbeger with a 96.5 rating.  Sam was ranked 31 with a 77.6 rating.   The 15th best QB in adjusted yards per catch was Baker Mayfield,  Sam was ranked 31 at 6.1.

What surprises me is how few Jets fans actually understand how good the average NFL QB is.  Compared to Sam they are great.

FYI I would love Sam Darnold to be great.  He's the Jets QB and I'm a Jets fan.  It doesn't feel good to have real doubt and feel it's time to move on.  That doesn't mean we should get Matt Stafford.  I'm really not for that.  He's miles better than Sam and in year 3 he took Detroit to the playoffs.  He was the first pick in the draft on a team that went 0 and 16 for that privilege.  

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On 1/26/2021 at 10:00 AM, riggy001 said:

I have been giving this some more extended thought recently. At first, i dismissed it any many of you have, he is going to be 33 next month, not a fit for the Jets. That said, with so many Qbs still effective in their late 30s, and even 40s, rivers, brees, brady, ben, rodgers, etc., could easily argue that Matt is still in prime, with 4-5 very good yrs left. The other variables are even more favorable, signed for 2 more yrs at 45 million( border Line  cheap) for a qb with his resume. The draft capital will be Much less to give up compared to Watson, likely our 23 and a third or 4th gets it done. We can then trade out of 2, knowing we have a gd qb secured, and get the haul we all expect...and we still have our high second and 2 1st rounders next yr, as well as whatever we get for Sam.

I heard all Detroit is asking for is the number 2 pick. They will give Stafford and their number 7 for the 2. Given your arguments I think I would take that deal. I doubt if Houston is trading Watson and if they did it would be for an outrageous fortune.

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4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

No shlt, the same as the how many SBs has Marino won.  

Take it easy with running with those goalposts skippy.  The criteria was playoff wins not Super Bowl trophies 

 

A lot of good quarterbacks have never won a super bowl. Very, very few good QBs have 0 playoff wins after being in the league 10+ years

 

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5 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

I heard all Detroit is asking for is the number 2 pick. They will give Stafford and their number 7 for the 2. Given your arguments I think I would take that deal. I doubt if Houston is trading Watson and if they did it would be for an outrageous fortune.

IF that’s the offer then yes

 

I doubt Detroit is making that offer

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2 hours ago, Biggs said:

You lost me on the last paragraph.  Darnold is the QB of the NY Jets.  He is part of the problem and he hasn't shown to date he can be part of the solution.  There is no obvious about it.  If you want to make the unemotional argument that you think with more talent around him and better coaching he will be a very good QB that's fine.  Saying it's unemotional and therefore might actually be a fact is irrelevant drivel.  

On further reading, he didn't really light it up in his rookie year.  He had some good moments.  In today's NFL good QB's don't show good moments.  They make great throws routinely all the time.  They throw lots of TD's they throw for 4,000 yards with 65% completion percentages all the time.  That's just the good NFL QB's not the elite ones.  

In 2018 by completion percentage the 15th ranked QB in that category who happened to be Stafford had a 67.9 completion percentage. Sam was at 57.7.  The 15th ranked NFL QB in TD's, Mitch Trubesky had 24 TD passes.  Sam had 17.  The 15th ranked QB in QBR was Ben Roethlisbeger with a 96.5 rating.  Sam was ranked 31 with a 77.6 rating.   The 15th best QB in adjusted yards per catch was Baker Mayfield,  Sam was ranked 31 at 6.1.

What surprises me is how few Jets fans actually understand how good the average NFL QB is.  Compared to Sam they are great.

FYI I would love Sam Darnold to be great.  He's the Jets QB and I'm a Jets fan.  It doesn't feel good to have real doubt and feel it's time to move on.  That doesn't mean we should get Matt Stafford.  I'm really not for that.  He's miles better than Sam and in year 3 he took Detroit to the playoffs.  He was the first pick in the draft on a team that went 0 and 16 for that privilege.  

context matters. you cant watch sams rookie season and tell me that in the last quarter of football he wasnt  playing at a high level and in a few weeks had stats that was top 5 in the nfl.  Sure if you look at this whole rookie season numbers they arnt the best but if you account for how he played after learning the system and getting rhythm he starting playing great. By good moment you mean he literally was top 5 qb a couple weeks, that is not something you should just pretend is not important. The actual play of Sam was great, as a rookie. 

You can discount it all you want but it was clear that a basic modern offense gave sam the ability to perform as one of the best Qbs in the league. Thats with way less talent that Stafford - or any number of teams - and also with just a basic off playbook. Stafford had much better in both categories.  Short sample sure, but never the less it is highly likely he would have continued to grow and play at that level even without so called top end weapons in the offense. But we took all chance of that away when we hired gase and adopted his stupid offense that couldnt lead to first downs let alone TD's.

I dont know if Sam is great, sorry if that is what  but I do know that he has been held down by his coaching staff. I can see them moving on and it can be justified - I get it - but i doubt that the new HC and our GM will do it. I think they know how rare a good qb is, and in our situation where we need so much - i think he plays another year to prove his progress and talent that has been seen from time to time is the real deal. Now if he plays like crap they will can him for sure. 

I like how you somehow are willingly ignorant on different situation that Sam and in this case Stafford have been in. You literally site a season taht he has every benefit that Sam has been denied. Even if I cant convince you other wise I think you would agree that Sam at least is going to confirm next year if he can play or not. And that in our situation as a team, that the Jets should not let him go somewhere else while he can be here on a prove it deal, while Joe builds the team aorund him.

I mean stafford is not the future- we shoudl probably look at long term not short term growth.

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5 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

context matters. you cant watch sams rookie season and tell me that in the last quarter of football he wasnt  playing at a high level and in a few weeks had stats that was top 5 in the nfl.  Sure if you look at this whole rookie season numbers they arnt the best but if you account for how he played after learning the system and getting rhythm he starting playing great. By good moment you mean he literally was top 5 qb a couple weeks, that is not something you should just pretend is not important. The actual play of Sam was great, as a rookie. 

 

He had one very good game and one good game in the last quarter of the season.  Compared to Sam Darnold they were great.  Compared to NFL QB's it was extraordinarily ordinary.  Take a look at his stats in those last 4 games and take a look at the stats of the opposing QB in those last 4 games.  Context has to be NFL football not Sam Darnold as the NY Jets QB.

The Packers were out of it and sucked that year on D.  They were playing for nothing.  Josh Rosen had a game winning drive against them in Green Bay that year.

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3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Take it easy with running with those goalposts skippy.  The criteria was playoff wins not Super Bowl trophies 

 

A lot of good quarterbacks have never won a super bowl. Very, very few good QBs have 0 playoff wins after being in the league 10+ years

 

Skippy?

Youre the one with the loony idea that Stafford isnt good based on the Lions sucking. 

And very, very few QBs have played on teams as bad as the Lions.

You want to blame one player for a teams success or failures., go for it.  The ultimate teams game and youre incapable of realizing that its a team.  Dont get the ridiculous idea youre trying to sell, that because the team sucked, that means its all on the QB.  You should look at the Lions stats theyre worse than others

Ever wonder just why few if any agree with you? 

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8 hours ago, Biggs said:

He had one very good game and one good game in the last quarter of the season.  Compared to Sam Darnold they were great.  Compared to NFL QB's it was extraordinarily ordinary.  Take a look at his stats in those last 4 games and take a look at the stats of the opposing QB in those last 4 games.  Context has to be NFL football not Sam Darnold as the NY Jets QB.

The Packers were out of it and sucked that year on D.  They were playing for nothing.  Josh Rosen had a game winning drive against them in Green Bay that year.

So you think Sam wasn't playing as good as rosen? That is a big leap. I'm just simply saying he showed ona very limited basis of a last 5 or 6 weeks of high level play..3 tds extending plays etc...and that was with nothing really around him just a modern gameplan. If he had got just that with same players he had with gase he would have had alot more wins and would be seen on par with some one like stafford. But the big deference is that Sam can make all the throws and also scramble and run...we might not agree on ceiling but you can't just pretend he didn't play well and certainly much better than rosen....

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On 1/27/2021 at 9:59 PM, Jet Nut said:

Skippy?

Youre the one with the loony idea that Stafford isnt good based on the Lions sucking. 

And very, very few QBs have played on teams as bad as the Lions.

You want to blame one player for a teams success or failures., go for it.  The ultimate teams game and youre incapable of realizing that its a team.  Dont get the ridiculous idea youre trying to sell, that because the team sucked, that means its all on the QB.  You should look at the Lions stats theyre worse than others

Ever wonder just why few if any agree with you? 

I don’t care who agrees me with me or not. I make valid points like that Jonah Williams is going to suck, Baker is a glorified Case Keenum and Marcus Mariota is a poor man’s Kaepernick 

 

Matt Stafford is a never was.  0 playoff wins in a 12 year career despite having the GOAT WR for 8 of those years and now the lions are desperate to get rid of him.  Oh and he’s 33 with an injury history,  can’t wait to give up 3 first round picks for that!

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