The QB School: Darnold & Zach Wilson

[RedBeardedSavage 2,353]

Interesting channel. Worth passing along.

For all the "content" channels like NFL Network and ESPN put forth about the sport, none of it is as interesting as stuff like this. 

 

 

And yes, you can tell I'm 'pandemic bored AF'.

[32EBoozer 6,450]

So not interested in watching. Can you give us the Readers Digest summation? Thanks..... Who wins?

[Lupz27 12,467]

Cliff’s notes please 

[T0mShane 139,761]

I watched and it’s interesting. Pretty good arm, great accuracy, but what stands out to me is how clean his pockets were on all of those throws. 

[RedBeardedSavage 2,353]

21 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

So not interested in watching. Can you give us the Readers Digest summation? Thanks..... Who wins?

 

17 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Cliff’s notes please 

Quarterback throw ball. Defense try stop.

 

[32EBoozer 6,450]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I watched and it’s interesting. Pretty good arm, great accuracy, but what stands out to me is how clean his pockets were on all of those throws. 

You must be taking about Sammy....right? Lol

[Darnold Schwarzenegger 1,434]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I watched and it’s interesting. Pretty good arm, great accuracy, but what stands out to me is how clean his pockets were on all of those throws. 

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-ranking-all-127-fbs-offensive-lines-through-cfb-week-13

[RedBeardedSavage 2,353]

19 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-ranking-all-127-fbs-offensive-lines-through-cfb-week-13

I believe both Christensen & Empey already went on their Mormon mission, so they're older than your average prospect. Just something to consider. I know both are in the draft from running mocks - usually day 3 picks.

But from the video, they do play a zone scheme and the blocking is stout. Possible late rounders for us as scheme fits depending on their age. 

[DetroitRed 1,402]

This guy puts out some quality content 

[Sonny Werblin 4,844]

If you watch the Darnold video you may come away with the impression that Darnold is not coached well, or maybe at all. It strikes me that all of the little things he does wrong, that add up to a lot, are precisely the sort of thing you work on at practice as you repetition your way to running a play properly.

[TokyoJetsFan 2,082]

Maybe we should ask Darnold not to go to Jordan Palmers summer camp this year. Certainly not helping him.

[RedBeardedSavage 2,353]

14 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

If you watch the Darnold video you may come away with the impression that Darnold is not coached well, or maybe at all. It strikes me that all of the little things he does wrong, that add up to a lot, are precisely the sort of thing you work on at practice as you repetition your way to running a play properly.

After watching both videos - the two best throws were from Darnold (the strike to Herndon on the crosser and that ridiculous 'no.no.YES' throw to Berrios that was dropped in the endzone).

But I didn't see the anticipation that Wilson clearly has, and Sam looks frantic/rushed too frequently.

But I mean, sh*t, Wilson is untouched every play and Darnold is under regular pressure throwing to Chris Herndon and Braxton Berrios.

Granted, I'm a Darnold-truther (true believer of the Darnold-anon narrative), and these are all excuses. I can't deny that. But I would like to see Darnold with better protection, weapons and finally, most importantly, with some good goddam coaching - just as you said. 

There are BYU lineman older than Darnold and he's got three years in the NFL. 

[kdels62 7,473]

34 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

If you watch the Darnold video you may come away with the impression that Darnold is not coached well, or maybe at all. It strikes me that all of the little things he does wrong, that add up to a lot, are precisely the sort of thing you work on at practice as you repetition your way to running a play properly.

Or he just doesn’t have it between the ears. JT O’Sullivan played under Gase and he mentions that Darnold just can’t seem to process it in another video. 

[Wonderboy 4,565]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I watched and it’s interesting. Pretty good arm, great accuracy, but what stands out to me is how clean his pockets were on all of those throws. 

Thats because they were playing 2 hand touch.

[Sonny Werblin 4,844]

5 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Or he just doesn’t have it between the ears. JT O’Sullivan played under Gase and he mentions that Darnold just can’t seem to process it in another video. 

I was struck by the little things involving play design. Like, on this play, you need to drop back further and this pass needs to be thrown before the receiver reached the yard number in the field. You drill those things in practice. You get them right through repetition. It has nothing to do with intelligence. 
 

iI do agree about processing, Darnold seems slow to understand what he is seeing. But none of that has anything to do with running a play correctly when there are no decisions to make.

[Sonny Werblin 4,844]

6 hours ago, TokyoJetsFan said:

Maybe we should ask Darnold not to go to Jordan Palmers summer camp this year. Certainly not helping him.

I feel like the Jets were relying on Palmer to do their job of teaching Darnold the little things. The failure to give Darnold an in-season Palmer i.e. a QB coach, is unforgivable.

The truly sad thing is had Darnold had a QB coach working closely with him all year, JD would know the answers to all of his questions about Darnold.

[QB1 1,350]

6 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

After watching both videos - the two best throws were from Darnold (the strike to Herndon on the crosser and that ridiculous 'no.no.YES' throw to Berrios that was dropped in the endzone).

But I didn't see the anticipation that Wilson clearly has, and Sam looks frantic/rushed too frequently.

But I mean, sh*t, Wilson is untouched every play and Darnold is under regular pressure throwing to Chris Herndon and Braxton Berrios.

Granted, I'm a Darnold-truther (true believer of the Darnold-anon narrative), and these are all excuses. I can't deny that. But I would like to see Darnold with better protection, weapons and finally, most importantly, with some good goddam coaching - just as you said. 

There are BYU lineman older than Darnold and he's got three years in the NFL. 

Both Darnold plays that you liked where pure anticipation throws

this guy doesn’t appear overly impressed with Wilson 

[bitonti 42,762]

9 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I believe both Christensen & Empey both already went on their Mormon mission, so they're older than your average prospect. Just something to consider. I know both are in the draft from running mocks - usually day 3 picks.

But from the video, they do play a zone scheme and the blocking is stout. Possible late rounders for us as scheme fits depending on their age. 

These linemen at byu are 2 years older than darnold, who is going into his 4th year as a pro 

Wilson has played garbage competition behind a line that's 7 years older than the freshman edge rushers they block 

[genot 2,040]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I feel like the Jets were relying on Palmer to do their job of teaching Darnold the little things. The failure to give Darnold an in-season Palmer i.e. a QB coach, is unforgivable.

The truly sad thing is had Darnold had a QB coach working closely with him all year, JD would know the answers to all of his questions about Darnold.

It's disgusting, is right. If Darnold. Is our QB next year, everybody should be pulling for him. He's been nothing but a class act through all this. I keep saying this he' s only 23. Youngest QB ever to start in the NFL, without a dedicated QB coach. Yes. It's disgusting

[Augustiniak 7,708]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

These linemen at byu are 2 years older than darnold, who is going into his 4th year as a pro 

Wilson has played garbage competition behind a line that's 7 years older than the freshman edge rushers they block 

Yet his throws are all his, and there are enough plays where he’s out of the pocket and throws darts to guys with very good placement.  You either buy it or you don’t.  I think fields is a disaster on the jets, once you take away his inherent OSU talent advantage.  I think wilson has more anticipation than fields and a ‘quicker processor’ which may matter the most.  You love Sewell, ok, i think he’s a terrible mistake for the jets at 2.  I also think darnold is at best a game manager who needs simplified plays ala Sanchez b/c he can’t process what he sees.  I’d take wilson in a heartbeat over darnold and use him in the Shanahan O and have him getting the ball out quickly.

[Sonny Werblin 4,844]

2 minutes ago, genot said:

It's disgusting, is right. If Darnold. Is our QB next year, everybody should be pulling for him. He's been nothing but a class act through all this. I keep saying this he' s only 23. Youngest QB ever to start in the NFL, without a dedicated QB coach. Yes. It's disgusting

How do you justify it? I'm totally baffled. Everyone knew Darnold's development was the most important thing to this organization. You wouldn't dream of not having an O line coach for Mechi Becton or a WR coach for Mims. It makes no sense whatsoever.  I would never dream a team would think of drafting a QB, making him the starter, and not giving him his very own coach to spend every moment possible coaching time one on one -- teaching him how to watch film, the proper drop backs on each different play, the benefit of good fakes on play action, what player on the D to key on for particular plays to know which Receiver will be open or if to check into a run play. There is SO SO much to learn. It is the height of arrogance for Gase to think he could develop and teach Darnold while not providing Darnold with such an invaluable developmental resource.

I seriously get angry thinking about it. And I am not trying say I think Darnold would have been great, or even good, if he had a QB coach, but you know for damn sure that if there was some coach spending all of his time with Darnold one on one for the past 2 or 3 years, JD would know for sure whether to bail on Darnold or ride with him this year.  

[section314 8,860]

Just to throw this out there.....based on how little real coaching Sam has gotten since he’s been here and how young he is, could Saleh and his staff basically view him as a rookie with way more potential than the other QB’s in this draft not named TL?

[genot 2,040]

8 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

How do you justify it? I'm totally baffled. Everyone knew Darnold's development was the most important thing to this organization. You wouldn't dream of not having an O line coach for Mechi Becton or a WR coach for Mims. It makes no sense whatsoever.  I would never dream a team would think of drafting a QB, making him the starter, and not giving him his very own coach to spend every moment possible coaching time one on one -- teaching him how to watch film, the proper drop backs on each different play, the benefit of good fakes on play action, what player on the D to key on for particular plays to know which Receiver will be open or if to check into a run play. There is SO SO much to learn. It is the height of arrogance for Gase to think he could develop and teach Darnold while not providing Darnold with such an invaluable developmental resource.

I seriously get angry thinking about it. And I am not trying say I think Darnold would have been great, or even good, if he had a QB coach, but you know for damn sure that if there was some coach spending all of his time with Darnold one on one for the past 2 or 3 years, JD would know for sure whether to bail on Darnold or ride with him this year.  

As Saleh has said. He was the #3 pick for a reason. He's a very talented athlete. At his age, coming out of USC, he did have flaws. Most felt they we're correctable. What happens. He's the starter from the get go, with limited talent around him. And inly Josh, at his side. Better than nothing, for sure. Then the unthinkable happens. Gase.A new system. Still very limited talent around him. And no QB coach. It is beyond belief that the QB you drafted to be the face of the franchise can be handled this way

[bitonti 42,762]

28 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Yet his throws are all his, and there are enough plays where he’s out of the pocket and throws darts to guys with very good placement.  You either buy it or you don’t.  I think fields is a disaster on the jets, once you take away his inherent OSU talent advantage.  I think wilson has more anticipation than fields and a ‘quicker processor’ which may matter the most.  You love Sewell, ok, i think he’s a terrible mistake for the jets at 2.  I also think darnold is at best a game manager who needs simplified plays ala Sanchez b/c he can’t process what he sees.  I’d take wilson in a heartbeat over darnold and use him in the Shanahan O and have him getting the ball out quickly.

There are no shortcuts. Coach Saleh just said it 

The team is not ready to push all in on a qb, especially one with all these injuries. His 19 power 5 tape is terrible. 

Not just Sewell, I'll take a star wr as well by the way 

[Sonny Werblin 4,844]

36 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Yet his throws are all his, and there are enough plays where he’s out of the pocket and throws darts to guys with very good placement.  You either buy it or you don’t.  I think fields is a disaster on the jets, once you take away his inherent OSU talent advantage.  I think wilson has more anticipation than fields and a ‘quicker processor’ which may matter the most.  You love Sewell, ok, i think he’s a terrible mistake for the jets at 2.  I also think darnold is at best a game manager who needs simplified plays ala Sanchez b/c he can’t process what he sees.  I’d take wilson in a heartbeat over darnold and use him in the Shanahan O and have him getting the ball out quickly.

I have issues with the way people throw around processing speed as something being evaluated. It is never clear to me what they are talking about. Some, seem to be talking about during the play decisions, others seem to limit it to pre-snap, and some conflate the two. I have some thoughts on this.

First, the college game is so slow compared to the pro game. It is snails vs rabbits comparing pro to college, especially considering most of BYUs opponents.

Second, the vast majority of College D's are vanilla compared to the NFL and they are caveman level compared to an NFL top 10 D.

Third, I don't think processing "speed" is all that important. At the pro level, the best QBs are not great because they process stuff quickly during the play. No, they are great because they get their team to the line, look over the D and based on their pre-snap read know whether to check off their play from run to pass or vice versa, or even switch a right run to a left run and if it is a pass play they have an excellent idea as to which Receiver will be open on the particular play they have called against the D formation he is looking at. I mean Jesus, how man times do we have to hear Tony Romo announce which receiver the QB should throw to before the ball is even snapped to get this?

I think these things in combination is why the college film cannot be relied upon to assess QB's "head" for the pro game. An it is why the meeting with the pro coaches where the QB is sent to the blackboard to draw up plays and shown film of D's and asked questions is the most important part of the puzzle, and it explains why guys with not a heck of a lot of ability can sometimes find success in the NFL. We all get excited about the "Arm", but the measure of success comes from the "head". I knew an old coach who used to sum up QB evaluations this way "She is gorgeous, but can she cook?"    (Caveat, I do not mean this in a gender demeaning way, it was just his way of making his point.)

[Augustiniak 7,708]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

There are no shortcuts. Coach Saleh just said it 

The team is not ready to push all in on a qb, especially one with all these injuries. His 19 power 5 tape is terrible. 

Not just Sewell, I'll take a star wr as well by the way 

I think a trade down and a wr is a smart move, we’d just have to suffer with another year of darnold.  

[The Crusher 219,738]

40 minutes ago, bitonti said:

These linemen at byu are 2 years older than darnold, who is going into his 4th year as a pro 

Wilson has played garbage competition behind a line that's 7 years older than the freshman edge rushers they block 

Damn, let me go fetch a mike so you can drop it...... twice !

[Augustiniak 7,708]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

I have issues with the way people throw around processing speed as something being evaluated. It is never clear to me what they are talking about. Some, seem to be talking about during the play decisions, other seem to limit it to pre-snap, and some conflate the two. I have some thoughts on this.

First, the college game is so slow compared to the pro game. It is snails vs rabbits comparing pro to college, especially considering most of BYUs opponents.

Second, the vast majority of College D's are vanilla compared to the NFL and they are caveman level compared to an NFL top 10 D.

Third, I don't think processing "speed" is all that important. At the pro level, the best QBs are not great because they process stuff quickly during the play. No, they are great because they get their team to the line, look over the D and based on their pre-snap read know whether to check off their play from run to pass or vice versa, or even switch a right run to a left run and if it is a pass play they have an excellent idea as to which Receiver will be open on the particular play they have called against the D formation he is looking at. I mean Jesus, how man times do we have to hear Tony Romo announce which receiver the QB should throw to before the ball is even snapped to get this?

I think these things in combination is why the college film cannot be relied upon to assess QB's "head" for the pro game. An it is why the meeting with the pro coaches where the QB is sent to the blackboard to draw up plays and show film of D's and asked questions is the most important part of the puzzle, and it explains why guys with not a a heck of a lot of ability can sometimes find success in the NFL. We all get excited about the "Arm", but the measure of success comes from the "head". I knew an old coach who used to sum up QB evaluations this way "She is gorgeous, but can she cook?"    (Caveat, I do not mean this in a gender demeaning way, it was just his way of making his point.)

I think processing speed refers to both pre snap and post snap.  Game speed also matters, how quickly qbs set up and release.  To me darnold is a slower setter upper, his feet/body mechanics/release is slow.  He can scramble but that’s not what I’m talking about.  You watch good qbs like Rodgers/mahomes, they set up quickly and get the ball out quickly.  These are important underrated skills.  Wilson seems to be of the quick variety, sets up and gets rid of it quickly.  Darnold is more of a plodder/mechanical qb.  It’s not about arm strength or pure speed.  I’ll give you another quick setter upper, burrow.  That’s why he’s good, not b/c of his running speed or arm strength.  He sees the field and gets rid of it quickly.

[genot 2,040]

8 minutes ago, section314 said:

Just to throw this out there.....based on how little real coaching Sam has gotten since he’s been here and how young he is, could Saleh and his staff basically view him as a rookie with way more potential than the other QB’s in this draft not named TL?

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!Bingo!!!!!!!!!!Darnold's way a head of the curve. He know's the speed of the game. I look at it as if Darnold is entering his 2nd year. The last two years we're a blank space, because of who the HC was. His system. His play calling. Darnold hasn't progressed, or regressed. He's just been in limbo

[T0mShane 139,761]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

Yet his throws are all his, and there are enough plays where he’s out of the pocket and throws darts to guys with very good placement.  You either buy it or you don’t.  I think fields is a disaster on the jets, once you take away his inherent OSU talent advantage.  I think wilson has more anticipation than fields and a ‘quicker processor’ which may matter the most.  You love Sewell, ok, i think he’s a terrible mistake for the jets at 2.  I also think darnold is at best a game manager who needs simplified plays ala Sanchez b/c he can’t process what he sees.  I’d take wilson in a heartbeat over darnold and use him in the Shanahan O and have him getting the ball out quickly.

You watch that NFC Championship game with JPP and Shaq Barrett taking turns getting up into Aaron Rodgers’ ass crack on every play and you have to wonder how a guy like Wilson will adjust to playing under that kind of duress when he’s been living with clean pockets on every down in college. 

[bitonti 42,762]

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I think a trade down and a wr is a smart move, we’d just have to suffer with another year of darnold.  

People who say trade down are being captain obvious. Jd of course wants to trade down for a pile of picks. Start considering the plan at 2 when that doesn't happen. 

[redlichtie 1,281]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I watched and it’s interesting. Pretty good arm, great accuracy, but what stands out to me is how clean his pockets were on all of those throws. 

Assume you mean Wilson...not Darnold !?

[Sonny Werblin 4,844]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I think processing speed refers to both pre snap and post snap.  Game speed also matters, how quickly qbs set up and release.  To me darnold is a slower setter upper, his feet/body mechanics/release is slow.  He can scramble but that’s not what I’m talking about.  You watch good qbs like Rodgers/mahomes, they set up quickly and get the ball out quickly.  These are important underrated skills.  Wilson seems to be of the quick variety, sets up and gets rid of it quickly.  Darnold is more of a plodder/mechanical qb.  It’s not about arm strength or pure speed.  I’ll give you another quick setter upper, burrow.  That’s why he’s good, not b/c of his running speed or arm strength.  He sees the field and gets rid of it quickly.

That sounds like stuff you get from "drills" and repetition.

[Augustiniak 7,708]

Just now, bitonti said:

People who say trade down are being captain obvious. Jd of course wants to trade down for a pile of picks. Start considering the plan at 2 when that doesn't happen. 

I think the underlying assumption is that douglas can trade out of 2 if he wants.  If not, ultimately i think douglas would take the best wr on his board.

[Augustiniak 7,708]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

That sounds like stuff you get from "drills" and repetition.

If it were that easy every rookie qb would get good at it.  I think some have it but most don’t.