pointman Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Mike135 said: Actually would still be psyched for next season. We are not far from some really exciting football. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drums Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said: 1 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RedBeardedSavage Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, pointman said: Imagine sniffing the idea of being Watson's first choice.. and then looking back at Sam Darnold being the starting QB. My gawd. Listen, I mean, I'm down to pay the premium for Watson. It's clearly worth it. But Darnold in the Shanahan system, with better coaching, with all the draft/free agency resources we can leverage to improve the offense is not a 'sky is falling' scenario. It's clearly plan B for me at this point, but I think it's a good fallback option. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pointman Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said: Listen, I mean, I'm down to pay the premium for Watson. It's clearly worth it. But Darnold in the Shanahan system, with better coaching, with all the draft/free agency resources we can leverage to improve the offense is not a 'sky is falling' scenario. It's clearly plan B for me at this point, but I think it's a good fallback option. I'm not trolling, honest question. Have you watched every game since Sam has been here? He is not good. System will help. Sure. He could do better. Sure. The other 31 teams aren't just sitting back and twiddling their thumbs. They watch and learn. Any improvement Sam makes, won't ever make him elite. And the other teams will adjust to his adjustments. I have zero confidence Sam ever becomes anything more than serviceable. He was dead last in several meaningful categories. And he failed the sheeet out of the eyeball test. People worried about him getting traded and being "fixed" by another team and him becoming successful.. aren't living in reality. The chances of that are about as good as Sam becoming a successful pass rusher. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jetsfan80 Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, pointman said: I'm not trolling, honest question. Have you watched every game since Sam has been here? He is not good. System will help. Sure. He could do better. Sure. The other 31 teams aren't just sitting back and twiddling their thumbs. They watch and learn. Any improvement Sam makes, won't ever make him elite. And the other teams will adjust to his adjustments. I have zero confidence Sam ever becomes anything more than serviceable. He was dead last in several meaningful categories. And he failed the sheeet out of the eyeball test. People worried about him getting traded and being "fixed" by another team and him becoming successful.. aren't living in reality. The chances of that are about as good as Sam becoming a successful pass rusher. I really have no idea why the fear of Darnold succeeding elsewhere exceeds the fear of missing out on a franchise QB for Jets fans. The former (Jets QB failing here but succeeding elsewhere) has never happened. The latter has happened several times. The Jets could have had Peyton Manning, traded up 1 spot for Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Pat Mahomes or Deshaun Watson, but passed on all of these in lieu of the presence of another, usually sh*tty QB already on the roster. It's maddening. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Warfish Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 11 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said: Listen, I mean, I'm down to pay the premium for Watson. It's clearly worth it. But Darnold in the Shanahan system, with better coaching, with all the draft/free agency resources we can leverage to improve the offense is not a 'sky is falling' scenario. It's clearly plan B for me at this point, but I think it's a good fallback option. I think expecting the worst starting QB in the NFL the past three years to be a top 10 QB is quite likely a pipe dream. He'll be better under someone not names Gase......but if he's ranked 23rd instead of 31st, is that really something to get excited about? I've asked it now for years: Is Sam Darnold a 4,500 yard, 30+ TD, >10 INT, 70%+ type of Quarterback? Do you really think that Sam is a top 10 QB just waiting to be given.......sigh.......time, and weapons? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post playtowinthegame Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 Joe Douglas talking to Jack Easterby and Nick Caserio. 1 2 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitRed Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Ive changed my stance on Watson, as the initial reporting wasn't telling the entire story. But, bringing him in will guarantee Saleh will not be fired for the next 10- 15 years. He will have best job security in sports before he has coached a down. Just hope you all realize this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post T0mShane Posted January 28, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 Douglas should trade Darnold to the 49ers tonight and set the world on fire. 2 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, DetroitRed said: Ive changed my stance on Watson, as the initial reporting wasn't telling the entire story. But, bringing him in will guarantee Saleh will not be fired for the next 10- 15 years. He will have best job security in sports before he has coached a down. Just hope you all realize this Ok. And.....? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said: I really have no idea why the fear of Darnold succeeding elsewhere exceeds the fear of missing out on a franchise QB for Jets fans. The former (Jets QB failing here but succeeding elsewhere) has never happened. The latter has happened several times. The Jets could have had Peyton Manning, traded up 1 spot for Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Pat Mahomes or Deshaun Watson, but passed on all of these in lieu of the presence of another, usually sh*tty QB already on the roster. It's maddening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, DetroitRed said: Ive changed my stance on Watson, as the initial reporting wasn't telling the entire story. But, bringing him in will guarantee Saleh will not be fired for the next 10- 15 years. He will have best job security in sports before he has coached a down. Just hope you all realize this But that’s a good thing, no? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Warfish said: Ok. And.....? The things some Jets fans choose to worry about when it comes to considering the prospect of adding a top 5 franchise QB not yet in his prime. It's strange, to say the least. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, Paradis said: Why are you continually posting your sex toys in this thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, DetroitRed said: Ive changed my stance on Watson, as the initial reporting wasn't telling the entire story. But, bringing him in will guarantee Saleh will not be fired for the next 10- 15 years. He will have best job security in sports before he has coached a down. Just hope you all realize this Nah. Expectations will be high if we have Watson. Saleh comes in with high expectations, big salary space, a GM who is believed to know what he is doing, and his own coaching staff. If he falls on his face out the gate, people will form a mob to demand his head. 10 years? Not even close. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ZachEY Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said: I really have no idea why the fear of Darnold succeeding elsewhere exceeds the fear of missing out on a franchise QB. The former (Jets QB failing here but succeeding elsewhere) has never happened. The latter has happened several times. The Jets could have had Peyton Manning, traded up 1 spot for Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Pat Mahomes or Deshaun Watson, but passed on all of these in lieu of the presence of another, usually sh*tty QB already on the roster. It's maddening. Loss aversion bias. Or, as many scholars have started calling it, "We have to see what we have in Hackenberg" 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Douglas should trade Darnold to the 49ers tonight and set the world on fire. I wish there was one of those "all in" gifs for Watson like there was for Trevor Lawrence. In lieu of that I will use this one instead: I also like this one, cuz that chick bad 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, DetroitRed said: Ive changed my stance on Watson, as the initial reporting wasn't telling the entire story. But, bringing him in will guarantee Saleh will not be fired for the next 10- 15 years. He will have best job security in sports before he has coached a down. Just hope you all realize this Firing coaches has gone so well before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 22 minutes ago, pointman said: We are not far from some really exciting football. No. Not in this very different off-season. There will be quality players available in free agency. Add a strong guard and T, the best WR, draft a RB with 34 (assuming you gave away 2 and 23) Roll with whatever defense we already have... With Watson and a couple of breaks (like Mims stays healthy) It will be the first time this team is truly competitive in 5 years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 hours ago, JetsRevival said: If you would be willing to take a rookie QB at #2 and not use it for a top 5 bonafide franchise QB on a team friendly deal for the next 4 years then this statement is invalid. No, it is not. The comparison of 2 overall for say Wilson on a rookie contract, and using 2 among other #1 picks is really not clear cut in favor of Watson like you think, in fact I think it is behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, Warfish said: I think expecting the worst starting QB in the NFL the past three years to be a top 10 QB is quite likely a pipe dream. He'll be better under someone not names Gase......but if he's ranked 23rd instead of 31st, is that really something to get excited about? I've asked it now for years: Is Sam Darnold a 4,500 yard, 30+ TD, >10 INT, 70%+ type of Quarterback? Do you really think that Sam is a top 10 QB just waiting to be given.......sigh.......time, and weapons? Yeah, this. If Sam Darnold were capable of being great, we'd have seen it. Many times over. At this point, maybe a new coach and system can get him to "okay." Even our super insider football genius admitted that Ryan Fitzpatrick is sort of the upside now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, johnnysd said: No, it is not. The comparison of 2 overall for say Wilson on a rookie contract, and using 2 among other #1 picks is really not clear cut in favor of Watson like you think, in fact I think it is behind. Yes it is, because of the >50 % chance Wilson, or any other prospects taken after a trade down, will fail, or come well short of the value Watson provides. Draft picks come with inherently very high risk, which has to be baked into the equation. A rock solid top 5 QB just entering his prime is very low risk. Especially since Watson would be reasonably priced on arrival. We'd be paying the 2nd most valuable player in the league about $29M per year on average. That's a bargain. Meanwhile, eventually, even a rookie QB on a cheap rookie deal will have to get paid a large amount some day IF he works out. A contract that would far exceed what Watson costs against the cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said: Nothing is more valuable than an elite, young QB. The # 2 pick would be used by somebody to find a QB they hope to be nearly as good as Watson, either by us or another team who trades up. I would amend this to nothing is more valuable than an elite, young QB on a rookie contract. History has shown this. Again the value, opportunity costs, salary cap implications and team building options does not make the comparison simple at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, DetroitRed said: Ive changed my stance on Watson, as the initial reporting wasn't telling the entire story. But, bringing him in will guarantee Saleh will not be fired for the next 10- 15 years. He will have best job security in sports before he has coached a down. Just hope you all realize this Nonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, TeddEY said: Loss aversion bias. Or, as many scholars have started calling it, "We have to see what we have in Hackenberg" Optimism Bias, Confirmation Bias, Projection Bias, Impact Bias, Sunk Cost Bias, System Justification Theory, Loss Aversion Bias, Pessimism Bias, etc, etc, etc..... Wrap it all up in a healthy does of the Gamblers Fallacy and some tasty Dunning–Kruger, and you have "The Way of the Jets Sports Fan". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, TeddEY said: Yeah, this. If Sam Darnold were capable of being great, we'd have seen it. Many times over. At this point, maybe a new coach and system can get him to "okay." Even our super insider football genius admitted that Ryan Fitzpatrick is sort of the upside now. I wouldn't bet on Sam having anywhere near the success that that journeyman has/had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, johnnysd said: I would amend this to nothing is more valuable than an elite, young QB on a rookie contract. History has shown this. Again the value, opportunity costs, salary cap implications and team building options does not make the comparison simple at all. But you can't assume the QB we draft will be elite. Not at all. You're talking about something like a 20 % chance at best, with a 50 % bust rate and the other 30 % chance that he'll be good but nowhere near as good as Watson. So you're right that it's not so simple to value a rookie QB that high. Watson >>>>> # 2 pick in value 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sperm Edwards Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, Beerfish said: The Jets have a wore roster than the texans who just won 4 games with watson. Cap space is the most overrated thing in the NFL because people are always projecting their team to get the top 3 or 4 Fa out there. that never happens and most often there is only 3 or 4 really impactful players to get. You are protecting out the rebuild for three years on a 25 year old Qb not new to the league guy in a rookie contact 7 rounds, did you look at what Douglas got for us after round one in his 1st draft? Yes I for sure see how it could work out really well, no question the team has not had a QB as good as watson many years, maybe ever. All I am saying is the jet are in a unique position toe improve in many positions in a big way over the next two years. Going all in on the Qb is a risk, and still not one person has given me a good explanation as to how houston won 4 game last year with an all world QB. Four of the top 8 passing teams from last year did not make the playoffs. You need talent across the board to be good in this league. Difference is there are suddenly two draws to the Jets in Saleh and Watson. It's not nothing. You've got Allen Robinson repeatedly tweeting his approval of (the idea of) Watson to the Jets, weeks before reaching UFA status himself. The Jets - yes, with so much cap room - would have to be considered heavy favorites to land him. But that's not it (or rather, it's not Robinson or just go with Perriman again). There are at least 4 high end WRs due to become UFAs in March and Robinson, while the best of them right now, is just one of them. There are at least three high end iOL players due to become UFAs as well (Thuney Scherff, Linsley). The Jets could use one - ffs they could use two - but the truth is they aren't omg desperate to sign one. I take for granted that Watson buys himself more time than Darnold, especially with pressure up the middle given his pocket presence and how effortlessly he rolls out to still throw downfield or just tuck & run if there's nothing there. There are also others who could fill in for a year or two (possibly more) but depending on who you ask aren't as highly touted right now (Pouncey, L.Taylor, Andrews, Reiter, etc.). Then they just need another body at RB who isn't nearly 40 years old. There's obvious coaching familiarity with Tevin Coleman, Carlos Hyde, and I guess McKinnon; none of whom will be a "top 3 or 4 FA" but one of them plus Perine & Johnson should suffice heading into the draft. I'd also like to see them add a TE just so the unreliable Herndon has some competition. This is a position they can put off more seriously till next year & could get by with Herndon and a still moderately productive veteran on his career downside (e.g. Cook) or a guy who's not a zero but hasn't nearly lived up to expectations (e.g. Everett). 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Just now, Jetsfan80 said: Yes it is, because of the >50 % chance Wilson, or any other prospects taken after a trade down, will fail, or come well short of the value Watson provides. Also a false statement. #2 is worth so much because the failure rate at that position is MUCH lower than even at 3. Plus we have a system that is super QB friendly so we can be super competitive even with an average QB, like Garapollo. With all the picks we have and the new system in place all we need to happen is for Wilson or Fields to just be good. I will make a prediction If we trade for Watson we will not make the playoffs for at least 3 years. No one seems to see how crippling the move is. I mean for goodness sake just look at Houston THIS year with Watson. It will not work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, pointman said: I wouldn't bet on Sam having anywhere near the success that that journeyman has/had. I wouldn't bet on him having a Geno Smith-like career. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Hypothetical Jets trade for Watson the package whatever it is includes the #2 pick. Draft day Jaguars drop a bomb and pass on Lawrence. Are you pissed, or nah Watson all the way? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, johnnysd said: Also a false statement. #2 is worth so much because the failure rate at that position is MUCH lower than even at 3. Plus we have a system that is super QB friendly so we can be super competitive even with an average QB, like Garapollo. With all the picks we have and the new system in place all we need to happen is for Wilson or Fields to just be good. I will make a prediction If we trade for Watson we will not make the playoffs for at least 3 years. No one seems to see how crippling the move is. I mean for goodness sake just look at Houston THIS year with Watson. It will not work. QB's are more volatile than other positions in the draft. 50 % is about right for the bust rate for QB's, even ones taken that high. And even if he doesn't bust, there's at least an 80 % chance that the QB taken there won't come close to being as good as Watson. At # 2, the Jets would be taking a QB, period. If they choose not to, then they will trade down to someone who will. So QB's are all that need to be considered when considering the value of # 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joejet Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 hours ago, slimjasi said: But half of their games weren't!! (And he was still a top 10 QB in the other 8 games) LMAO. Worst argument ever. What makes his argument worse is that 8 games they lost by 8 points or less, they won 4 games, and 4 games they lost by more than 8. They lost to Kansas City by 14, Baltimore by 17, Green Bay by 15, and they were clobbered by the Bears by 29 but Watson only threw for 219 in that game so he certainly wasn’t padding his stats in that game. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Lupz27 said: Hypothetical Jets trade for Watson the package whatever it is includes the #2 pick. Draft day Jaguars drop a bomb and pass on Lawrence. Are you pissed, or nah Watson all the way? Not at all. Ask again in 5 years when Lawrence is as advertised. You trade for Watson, you're getting an elite QB at 25 years old. You draft Lawrence, you get an elite prospect at 22 (or whatever he is, not looking it up). We've seen plenty of elite prospects fail. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.