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Is Chris Simms Right About Watson?


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8 minutes ago, JiF said:

Honestly, I dont even care if it resulted in a Super Bowl.  This team is unwatchable.  Sundays suck.  I've never missed more Jets game then I did in 2020 and 2019 and even with a new exciting coach, I have zero interest in this team moving forward if Sam Darnold is the QB.  He's not exciting, he's not fun to watch, he has zero passion for the game and he's predictable awful when you need him not to be.  He's a miserable player and as a fan, I dont want to see another snap taken by Sam Darnold.  If he's our QB next year, I legit, wont watch...again.  If Watson is our QB, I will watch every single minutes of Jets Football until he retires.  That alone, is worth 10 1st round picks because straight up, this team is dangerously close to me just full on checking out altogether.  There is absolute nothing exciting about the future of this team.  You can feign interest in Saleh but come'on, he's a coach, I dont watch Sunday to see a coach on the sidelines.

 

 

Seriously.   This franchise has been a complete joke for the last decade.  

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6 minutes ago, JiF said:

Honestly, I dont even care if it resulted in a Super Bowl.  This team is unwatchable.  Sundays suck.  I've never missed more Jets game then I did in 2020 and 2019 and even with a new exciting coach, I have zero interest in this team moving forward if Sam Darnold is the QB.  He's not exciting, he's not fun to watch, he has zero passion for the game and he's predictable awful when you need him not to be.  He's a miserable player and as a fan, I dont want to see another snap taken by Sam Darnold.  If he's our QB next year, I legit, wont watch...again.  If Watson is our QB, I will watch every single minutes of Jets Football until he retires.  That alone, is worth 10 1st round picks because straight up, this team is dangerously close to me just full on checking out altogether.  There is absolute nothing exciting about the future of this team.  You can feign interest in Saleh but come'on, he's a coach, I dont watch Sunday to see a coach on the sidelines.

 

 

That’s a very good point and I can’t say I’m far off that. I actually started to watch all the games this season but as much as I liked him coming out at this  point watching Darnold is the equivalent of nails on a chalk board. Sadly it was easier to watch him when I felt the tank was on, as soon as I felt team might as well try to win a couple games  it became excruciating again. 

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1 minute ago, JiF said:

And when #2 inevitably busts????  just do it all over again in 2025?

Look forward to it!

Yes.  Exactly. 

You keep trying to until you find the right QB.  

Here's the thing though - you need to support your QB and build a team around him to give him a chance - especially early in his career.  We have to stop drafting DT's, LB's, Safety's and Corners in the first 3 rounds (at least for a couple of years)

Spend your premium resources on WR, OL, TE's and RB's...and watch how #2 overall begins to prosper.  

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17 minutes ago, JiF said:

Honestly, I dont even care if it resulted in a Super Bowl.  This team is unwatchable.  Sundays suck.  I've never missed more Jets game then I did in 2020 and 2019 and even with a new exciting coach, I have zero interest in this team moving forward if Sam Darnold is the QB.  He's not exciting, he's not fun to watch, he has zero passion for the game and he's predictable awful when you need him not to be.  He's a miserable player and as a fan, I dont want to see another snap taken by Sam Darnold.  If he's our QB next year, I legit, wont watch...again.  If Watson is our QB, I will watch every single minutes of Jets Football until he retires.  That alone, is worth 10 1st round picks because straight up, this team is dangerously close to me just full on checking out altogether.  There is absolute nothing exciting about the future of this team.  You can feign interest in Saleh but come'on, he's a coach, I dont watch Sunday to see a coach on the sidelines.

 

 

I moved out to PA years ago, but if Watson is the QB, I am getting season tickets. This would be the 1st smell of a FQb in decades. I would not want to miss the ride; especially with Saleh and the new offensive system being implemented. I will finally be able to see scores in the 20's and 30's for once. Not 4 FG and 5 punts every game.

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Michael Kay said it best weeks ago “the jets deserve greatness for once” that’s how I feel, I’m tired of “waiting for next season”,  “_________ QB will turn the corner next season” , “the jets won the offseason “ etc. 

 

Now they are literally trying to tell us that our eyes are wrong and we have a franchise QB just waiting to be unleashed. This same franchise QB that needs a training wheel offense to even be a effective player. I’m with @JiF if Sam is here next year I’m done  

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7 minutes ago, Dcat said:

No. His arguments are inconsistent.  He's a dope. 

His argument is sound.

  1. Watson is a good QB, entering his prime
  2. As good as he is, Watson without talent doesn't win
  3. Jets have no talent
  4. Therefor, Watson won't win with the Jets
  5. Finally, Jets should use their resources to build an NFL roster

It's pretty sound thinking and accurate to the situation.

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18 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I always reread my posts because my mind gets going faster than my fingers.  When I read the part you highlighted, I shook my head at myself.  Too late to edit now ?

May your decedents still feel the sting of this shame for generations to come.

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1 hour ago, CTM said:

"So you could go 4-12 with Watson?" I stopped here.


Preposterous, , going from a bottom 5 player to a top 5 player at the most important position in football means more wins. Period.

You want to make the arguement that we have too many holes to give away so many pick, fine, then say 8-8 with Watson. You'd still be wrong considering Watson is only 25 but atleast you don't sound ridiculous.

In this league all you need is a coach and a qb. Hopefully we just got the coach, and hopefully the qb is next.

People really overthink things and dont realize how much coaching impacts a teams w/l record regardless of talent on the team.

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39 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  For the whole “build the roster first” and roll with Sam for a year, what happens if Sam doesn’t improve?  Sure they can draft a QB in 2022, but at what cost?  What if the Jets go 6-10 and are picking 10th?  You would have to presumably trade up and get that kid.   Now what would be the cost difference between trading for Deshaun now vs. trading up for a rookie in 2022?  

Yup.  And what if the top 2 teams in the draft need QBs and are not willing to trade back at any cost.  Then we are right where we have been for the past 50 years.  Still looking to fill the most important hole on the team.  Trade for Deshaun.  Or pick Wilson/Fields at 2. 

If we can get Watson, get him.  An elite QB elevates the talent around him.  A QB who can read defenses, set protections and deliver the ball accurately and allow his receivers to make plays makes the OL and weapons more effective.  Maybe its not the OL and weapons draggging Sam down.  Could be the other way around.

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4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You draft your favorite QB at 2.

Trade Sam...

And use all your other premium resources to build an offense around your young QB. 

Let the defense fend for itself the next two years as you develop your FQB.

Two years before committing real resources to the defense, only after committing "all your other premium resources" to the offense?

I'll never get on board with that. You're not going to then build up a defense in 1 year any more than Houston is on the verge of having a top 10 defense within the next 2 years starting now. 

That is a plan for 4 years of rebuilding to contend in year 5, with an upside of doing it one year faster. 

  • Extreme needs, requiring premium expenditures = QBWR1, one OL (probably a G, but if it's a center to move McG to G then a ~$11MM/yr FA would have to be considered premium; there are at least a handful available iOL FAs good enough. While nice, it doesn't need to be a $15MM/yr guard).
  • Additional needs, requiring expenditures but premium resources aren't required = RB, TE, G, RT. The kinds of FAs and prospects who are very gettable on demand every year (i.e. no need to wait for 2022 to address) as parts of most top 5-10 offenses. A so-so level TE should be enough: ARob/similar + Mims + Crowder + mid-level TE is enough for a true FQB to pass for 4500+ yards (if needed) unless Mims stinks.

If you need any more than that to build a top 10 offense, then you've badly chosen the wrong QB. The only way it'd take 2 years is if you picked guy needs a year to either settle in or outright sit at least half his first season, or if you've delayed addressing QB until next year's draft. 

It's why so many are in favor of trading for Watson: there's no question about the QB being good enough, and you aren't so depleted you can't build a top 5-10 offense for at least 2 more years because of what's surrendered, and frankly he requires less support than a prospect to get you to top-10 land. The above is realistically buildable in this one offseason without requiring any 1st round picks nor the 3 best FAs all signing here (though Watson+Saleh would make us suddenly very attractive, instead of where you go for a last cash-in before we ruin your career in/after 1 season). 

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If JD and Saleh determine there is a better than 50% chance Sam turns it around then you run it back.

All these mental gymnastics everyone is doing don’t mean squadoosh.  

If we get Watson at a reasonable cost, great.

If they want too much and we wind up trading down, keeping Sam, and filling numerous holes with 1st round picks thats great too.

What isn't great is trading away both first rounders this year, 1 next year, and more.  F that.

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Just now, Lith said:

He has also won as many Division titles in 3 years as a starter as the Jets have won in the 50 years since the merger. 

And Sanchez won as many playoff games in his 1st post season as Deshaun has won in his career.

Can play semantics games all day.

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7 minutes ago, Pac said:

You're making the case why Sam will improve.  Not sure your preference in all this.

That's true too. Personally I think Watson is worth it for this years #2, Sam, a 1st rder next year, and some other combo of 2nd and 3rd rders from this or next year.

Anything more than that you either roll with Sam, in part because of the impacts of coaching, or you target someone like Wilson or Fields.

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3 minutes ago, Pac said:

And Sanchez won as many playoff games in his 1st post season as Deshaun has won in his career.

Can play semantics games all day.

It is not a semantics game. 

My point is that the guy has shown that he can win in this league.  Everyone points to the most recent season, where the Texans won 4 games with a 27th ranked defense..  The offense lost Hopkins and still scored more points than they did the year before.  The defense is the main reason why they were 4-12.

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8 minutes ago, Pac said:

You're making the case why Sam will improve.  Not sure your preference in all this.

With the right coaching, maybe he can play at bottom 5 QB level!

As Bart Scott would say, "I am overwhelmed by the prospect and cannot wait for the aforementioned to take place."

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Two years before committing real resources to the defense, only after committing "all your other premium resources" to the offense?

I'll never get on board with that. You're not going to then build up a defense in 1 year any more than Houston is on the verge of having a top 10 defense within the next 2 years starting now. 

That is a plan for 4 years of rebuilding to contend in year 5, with an upside of doing it one year faster. 

  • Extreme needs, requiring premium expenditures = QBWR1, one OL (probably a G, but if it's a center to move McG to G then a ~$11MM/yr FA would have to be considered premium; there are at least a handful available iOL FAs good enough. While nice, it doesn't need to be a $15MM/yr guard).
  • Additional needs, requiring expenditures but premium resources aren't required = RB, TE, G, RT. The kinds of FAs and prospects who are very gettable on demand every year (i.e. no need to wait for 2022 to address) as parts of most top 5-10 offenses. A so-so level TE should be enough: ARob/similar + Mims + Crowder + mid-level TE is enough for a true FQB to pass for 4500+ yards (if needed) unless Mims stinks.

If you need any more than that to build a top 10 offense, then you've badly chosen the wrong QB. The only way it'd take 2 years is if you picked guy needs a year to either settle in or outright sit at least half his first season, or if you've delayed addressing QB until next year's draft. 

It's why so many are in favor of trading for Watson: there's no question about the QB being good enough, and you aren't so depleted you can't build a top 5-10 offense for at least 2 more years because of what's surrendered, and frankly he requires less support than a prospect to get you to top-10 land. The above is realistically buildable in this one offseason without requiring any 1st round picks nor the 3 best FAs all signing here (though Watson+Saleh would make us suddenly very attractive, instead of where you go for a last cash-in before we ruin your career in/after 1 season). 

So, to be clear.

You're agreeing with me on solely offensive commitment in year 1...but not to carry that over to year 2?

I could certainly get on board with that, particularly in a year like this where resources are plentiful in draft capital and cap space in a year when the cap is going down.

Make an all in commitment on offense this year...and be smart next year, mixing in offense and defense.  I could buy into a plan like that.

What I would completely disagree with is a  "one for offense and one for defense" type strategy - this year. 

Whoever the QB is, the only way to make him successful is to surround him with talent - and right now our offense has no talent.

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1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

With the right coaching, maybe he can play at bottom 5 QB level!

As Bart Scott would say, "I am overwhelmed by the prospect and cannot wait for the aforementioned to take place."

If we keep Sam your quarrel is with JD and Saleh.  I kinda want them to run it back but certainly wouldn't mind Watson if its for 2nd overall, seattlets first next year, and a 3rd.

More than that starts to get dicey.

Especially if you think Sam can turn it around.

Hopefully we'll know soon but I can't see JD going into FA with this still being in doubt.

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2 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Oh and I make the trade for 3 1st and a 2nd right now!

CB, Listen to the video again. Sims, IMHO, is spot on with his logic. So instead of like going 2-14 we go say 5-11. What's the diffence. We'd have a better QB on a still sh*tty team. We have LOTS of holes. Most of those holes could be filled with all that prime draft ammo we'd give up to get Watson. Waaay too high a price. Also, How long before Watson becomes disgruntled with all the losing and wants out ? Think about it.  

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31 minutes ago, Pac said:

He just went 4-12 on a more talented team.

ehh, why would a more talented team have one of the worst defenses in football? The reaosn you think Houston is more talented ius because of the QB lol

Jets were 31st best offense and 21st best defense

Houston #13 and #30

With the 21st ranked defense Houston's expected wins would be around 8, given thier offensive output, the Jets actual expected wins were 3

 

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I agree with him that it will take three first round picks including our number two overall

And we have a lot of holes but a lot of cap Space to fill those holes and are uniquely positioned with a lowered salary cap to get guys other teams can’t afford.

we sign A rob and Thuney/Scherff and marlon Mack and the offense is stupidly improved with the Shanahan system.

btw the #2 overall pick equals 3 Bears first round picks.  The Jets will be the Texans number one trade target based on that #2 pick

 

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2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Truth is with or without Watson its likely this team is marginally competitive next couple years. But with Watson and building around a straight up too 5 QB gives us the potential to take a monster leap once the lineup starts to improve and he will most importantly : Make the guys around him better! That’s what elite QBs do. If they have a chance to drop three 1’s and get this guy and they don’t then it’s more than likely be the same old same old with this team.
 

I’m sorry, but it might be time for Woody to step in and demand the shiney object, because this time he would be 100% correct!

No, Woody should never step in.  He is not a football intelligent person, and if he does it once, even if he is correct, he is going to want to do it over and over again, which will be bad.

The GM and the HC sit down, and decide what they want to do, and go that route.

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Everyone is presuming that the discussion starts with three first round picks and goes UP.

Maybe that is wrong thinking: Maybe the discussion is three first round picks to start, but it will go DOWN.

It looks like the relationship is broke.   Rightfully, the Texans will want a lot for a QB of Watson's stature.  However, what happens if they can't get three first round picks and UP, and Watson refuses to play?  This will be driven a great deal by what Watson's reaction is.  He can request a trade, but if he shows up to mini-camp and plays nice, Texans have ALL the leverage.  But if he refuses to play no matter the cost, the Texans will have no choice but to trade him for less than what they want to.  

I think that can be an important development because Mike Mac isn't our GM anymore.  If Mac was still GM, I believe he would call the Texans and start the conversation with offering 5 first round picks.  But I think JD is a little more saavy than that.  He might start off with a low-ball offer, and try and meet them somewhere in-between.  

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