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Only Two Teams Can Afford Deshaun Watson: Real Trade Offers.


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20 hours ago, johnnysd said:

People refuse to see the big picture that trading all the draft resources they list in all these asinine trade proposals and the cap hit would lead to a worse overall team. 

Watson went 4-12 with a better roster than the Jets so just throw all that Top 5 BS out the door.

If we make the trade people are suggesting we will have Watson and not have a winning record the next 3 seasons.

It's idiotic.

On an individual player basis, the Texans may have fielded the worst pass coverage D in history. I outlined it about a week ago so I’m not going to here, but without seeing it I don’t think you’re factoring in just how bad they were, and not just because they were starting a lot of rookies & backups. The Jets - even needing obvious help of their own - won’t have an uphill path to be noticeably better than the 2020 Texans. Last year 4/5 of Houston’s OL plus 10/11 of their defense was garbage. Then toss in a schedule with 10 playoff opponents that’d have been rough for a good team. That is a more extreme situation than even the Jets were, never mind what the Jets have the means to and will improve from bottom-of-the-barrel in a way Houston can’t. 

They were going to use at least the #2 pick on a new QB anyway (or the equivalent of it in a trade-up next year if they went with Darnold in 2021). The suggestion otherwise is that keeping the two other 1st rounders - which the team has incidentally acquired for Jamal Adams - would have been the difference between contending vs. having losing seasons for 3 more years, is a stretch you’d have to explain with names to be convincing.

That is, unless the solution involves using all those extra picks to put around Darnold, and assuming that propels him from one of the game’s worst QBs into a true asset (followed by a franchise tag and/or a $35MM/year extension, since the Jets aren’t exercising his 5th yr option). In that case don’t bother with the explanation lol. 

With Watson + better coaching + a few key FAs, the Jets absolutely can field a playoff team in 2021. It doesn’t take 3 years, let alone 4.

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Negotiations have officially started for Deshaun Watson with the Texans.  You confirm this simply because rumors of individual teams will start leaking. "The Jets are out". "Chicago is the Favori

So we have to trade them the farm and take on two lousy contracts as well. Totally not worth it. Just how is this team going to fill the massive holes all over the roster? Jets and hous

Nice job..... remember though that Houston would be getting back their 1.3 pick from Miami. Those optics ALONE take Miami out of consideration!! Too funny!

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7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


Did I stutter? He’s not being a malcontent.

Not every player who requests a trade is a malcontent. He’s not causing locker room discord and is universally seen as a great dude by teammates, fans, the media and coaches. Having a legit beef with the owner and front office says nothing negative about his character or personality.

 

This is a lot of wishful thinking.

There is very little difference between Adams and Watson in these scenarios (when discussing their agenda/reasoning)

Because you don't Watson to be a bad guy yet were excited the Jets traded away their best player you convicned yourself they're different.  They're not.

If we're getting into something like this you really shouldn't be going into it with blinders on.

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On board with bringing in Watson, but really doubt this will happen. I’d bet a nice sum of money at this point. And that’s the smart money, IMO.   First, the cost will be exorbitant and all the Douglas moves so far suggest an overhaul.  Not a quick one, but calculated.  Next, I believe  the Texans are going to sit down and dig their heels in.  They will be prepared to have him sit at least a year, so that eventually they can find common ground.  I think that’s  exactly what their hires indicate 

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53 minutes ago, Bronx said:

Yes there is a difference, Watson is a decent human being.

Jamal is decent.  Cmon. Another poster and I were giving evidence yesterday.  He has an inflated ego and can be highly immature.  But he is certainly decent 

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4 minutes ago, Bronx said:

Yes there is a difference, Watson is a decent human being.

I'm sure he is. But so is Adams.

These aren't bad people, just guys who view themselves on a higher plain than others around them.

Again, if this is the guy you want fine, but don't fool yourself into thinking he's some type of victim and won't do this again if things don't go his way.

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm sure he is. But so is Adams.

These aren't bad people, just guys who view themselves on a higher plain than others around them.

Again, if this is the guy you want fine, but don't fool yourself into thinking he's some type of victim and won't do this again if things don't go his way.

I don’t think he’s a victim in terms of what’s transpired in January. He took the extension, with a big bonus check that was subject to $0 in state income taxes, and did so not even after all the crappy moves the team made, but rather after he’s seen the results of said moves resulted in a 4-win season.

I think he legitimately feels slighted - and the owner handed him an excuse in mindless fashion - but everyone endures slights. He is getting out of there because he can use that slight to get a country full of fan and sports media sympathy/support behind him here as a one-time opportunity, because it’s out of character so there must be a unique/good reason.

Different if he tries it again, as the sentiment will instead be for him to get over himself & play (or don’t, but no one’s listening). Nobody shoots his way off two teams, let alone so soon. Nobody even attempts it, absent Antonio Brown issues above the neck that Watson doesn’t have.

To shoot his way out of town with the Jets, right after doing so with the Texans and choosing the Jets and professing this is the HC he wants to play for, he’d need to be armed with video footage of Woody Johnson dropping n-bombs or something. In that case everyone else on the roster is demanding out anyway so it makes no difference.

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3 hours ago, Bronx said:

Yes there is a difference, Watson is a decent human being.

yeah, he destroying the Texans.

lets be honest. real reason he wants out is because they suck and have dug a hole they wont get out of anytime soon with cap space and bad trades.

so he finds an out. plays the race card. how does Houston not interview a black OC from a SB wining team? fine if you don't want to hire Bienemey, 6 other teams didn't, but you don't even bring him in for an interview? now people are looking like something up in Houston. 

i could have bet my house there next coach would be black. but not the one they picked. 65 yr old's don't usually get first time HC jobs. i wonder if Frazier and Caldwell took there names out after what they heard.

and what did they hear? does anybody know what's so bad about Houston? Sherman says it bad too. 

all i see is a QB who 5 months ago had no problem with Houston cause he signed a mega 5 yr deal wants out of a team that needs a rebuild. 

he and his agent and friends are torching the earth in Houston. nobody's going to want to play there.

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40 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don’t think he’s a victim in terms of what’s transpired in January. He took the extension, with a big bonus check that was subject to $0 in state income taxes, and did so not even after all the crappy moves the team made, but rather after he’s seen the results of said moves resulted in a 4-win season.

I think he legitimately feels slighted - and the owner handed him an excuse in mindless fashion - but everyone endures slights. He is getting out of there because he can use that slight to get a country full of fan and sports media sympathy/support behind him here as a one-time opportunity, because it’s out of character so there must be a unique/good reason.

Different if he tries it again, as the sentiment will instead be for him to get over himself & play (or don’t, but no one’s listening). Nobody shoots his way off two teams, let alone so soon. Nobody even attempts it, absent Antonio Brown issues above the neck that Watson doesn’t have.

To shoot his way out of town with the Jets, right after doing so with the Texans and choosing the Jets and professing this is the HC he wants to play for, he’d need to be armed with video footage of Woody Johnson dropping n-bombs or something. In that case everyone else on the roster is demanding out anyway so it makes no difference.

We're going to have to simply disagree on this point.

The Jets are easy marks.  If this were another team, I might agree.

What side of the argument is the media going to take if the Jets aren't winning and we used #34 and one of next years 1's on DT's or signed big FA's that fail?  And didn't consult our 26 year old QB on personnel decisions.

Seriously, he comes out and calls the Jets dysfunctional(or his agent will) - then Greeny comes out on ESPN and agrees with him, then some other analyst follows - and we're off.  Same O'le Jets narrative.  It'll be easy to shoot his way out.

Bell just shot himself off back to back teams - and he stinks, yet ended up on the best team in Football.

With all of that said, if they win this isn't a problem.  If the Jets support him with resources this won't be a problem.  Problem is, the resources necessary to support him will be used to secure him.

Get him for #2, Sam and the highest of next years 1's and I'm in - anything more than that and you're setting yourself up for failure.

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21 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Exactly. Once a malcontent always a malcontent. Do people really think he is not going to want a big say in coaching scheme and players. Just not the right move for the Jets.

If the Jets are a dumpsterfire in 3 years, drowning under the cap and playing terrible football with Watson being the only bright spot and if Saleh and JD are on the hot seat, I have no problem with Watson being a malcontent. I can guarantee you, if the Jets are finally looking like a winning organization with talent and Saleh and JD are looking like they are competent at their jobs Watson will not be a 'malcontent'. 

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

We're going to have to simply disagree on this point.

The Jets are easy marks.  If this were another team, I might agree.

What side of the argument is the media going to take if the Jets aren't winning and we used #34 and one of next years 1's on DT's or signed big FA's that fail?  And didn't consult our 26 year old QB on personnel decisions.

Seriously, he comes out and calls the Jets dysfunctional(or his agent will) - then Greeny comes out on ESPN and agrees with him, then some other analyst follows - and we're off.  Same O'le Jets narrative.  It'll be easy to shoot his way out.

Bell just shot himself off back to back teams - and he stinks, yet ended up on the best team in Football.

With all of that said, if they win this isn't a problem.  If the Jets support him with resources this won't be a problem.  Problem is, the resources necessary to support him will be used to secure him.

Get him for #2, Sam and the highest of next years 1's and I'm in - anything more than that and you're setting yourself up for failure.

Fine we can disagree. I still think it’s ridiculous & due to a unique situation. 

Nobody cared about examples like Bell because, despite allowing the possibility it was Gase/Jets, everyone could see he wasn’t the same back from years earlier. Also he was untrade-able because no one wanted him. A lot of eye-rolling over his dissatisfaction. He was obliged in releasing him because he was terrible. His issue before that, with Pittsburgh, is he was a RB (position with the shortest shelf life) who was prevented from reaching free agency. Plus because there weren’t any mega-salaried RBs in the league, the franchise tag was a crazy bargain for the Steelers & it came with only year-to-year exposure rather than effective 2 or 3 yr guarantees. Plus in his situation you could also make the case that he wanted that big guarantee so he could get fat & coast, then maybe a couple more years making low 7 figures as a backup (without the same concussion/injury risks), and retire for good around or by age 30 with a gazillion dollars. In other words, it was all about money and preventing the player from reaching free agency until he was past his earning prime, and the reasons why matter if you want to draw analogies to Watson.

I don’t agree with your last statement either. #2 plus two #1s isn’t demonstrably higher than what you just outlined, assuming Darnold could fetch a 2nd round pick. I mean really, you’d risk drafting an outright bust at #2 overall, over the difference between pick #23 and what we could get for Darnold? IMO it’s a unique opportunity — it doesn’t happen, and in addition to how unusual it is, that the one time it does that’s when the Jets of all teams are in the catbird seat to do something about it.

I find lamenting over a 2nd rounder for Darnold vs a later 1st rounder for whomever to be much riskier than any presumption that Watson is going to suddenly and baselessly shoot his way out of town by screaming racism at the owner who - once Parcells was no longer in charge - hires more minority HCs than white ones (and keeps them for longer, too: the ones who were fired in less than 5 years were Mangini and Gase. Herm 5 yrs, Rex 5 yrs, Bowles 5 yrs, :bag: — and unless he’s Gase-level bad then Saleh should be HC here at least 5 years himself. Then, of course, trading the farm for Watson isn’t exactly seeking out the next great white hope at QB either.

So good luck with making the types of accusations here that he’s not even coming out and making in Houston. You’ve got a much better chance of using that #2 to draft the next Darnold than worrying about Watson wanting out after a few seasons.

But fine to disagree. You’re allowed to be wrong hahaha.

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3 hours ago, PepPep said:

If the Jets are a dumpsterfire in 3 years, drowning under the cap and playing terrible football with Watson being the only bright spot and if Saleh and JD are on the hot seat, I have no problem with Watson being a malcontent. I can guarantee you, if the Jets are finally looking like a winning organization with talent and Saleh and JD are looking like they are competent at their jobs Watson will not be a 'malcontent'. 

Agreed.  Houston is a bigger sh*tshow right now than the Jets have ever been (and that's saying something).  They have:

1. A head coach who, at 65 years old, has never been a head coach or even a coordinator at any level and has never even been mentioned for other head coaching jobs, all while managing poor-performing units as an assistant (nice guy, though).

2. A GM who is the front-office equivalent of Eric Bienemy - a guy whose team has had great success (win-loss, but not necessarily with drafts or personnel choices) without final decision making power, standing behind a hall-of-fame coach who is calling all the shots (Belichick).  His first public attempt to mend fences with his star QB was to call him "the player" in a press conference.  (He will quickly learn that he can't get away with Belichick's assholic methods without Belichick's history of success.)

3. Football decision oversight by a creepy televangelist type who has somehow wormed his way into a position of power in the organization, and has reportedly bothered Watson's mother with texts that were Manish-level stalkerish. 

4. An owner who makes significant organizational decisions based on prayer sessions with the creepy televangelist, and has reportedly disrespected his biggest asset by writing respect checks that he didn't cash.

Oh, and they have no top draft picks this year because of past mistakes and are having cap problems (as you mentioned).

This is historic dysfunction.  If the Jets degrade to this level in the next few years, I agree that Watson will have license to want out.  And if he does, the Jets will be in a position to recoup the loss somewhat with significant draft picks returning in a trade.

The "what if he does this to us" argument doesn't fly with me.

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If we want deshaun watson then we play hardball period. He is desperate to leave them as should not over pay for the guy let them get fleeced not us. The number two pick is their only way to guarentee the qb of their choice not named lawrence to replace watson unless they want to use an older bridge qb which I doubt they do.

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12 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

On board with bringing in Watson, but really doubt this will happen. I’d bet a nice sum of money at this point. And that’s the smart money, IMO.   First, the cost will be exorbitant and all the Douglas moves so far suggest an overhaul.  Not a quick one, but calculated.  Next, I believe  the Texans are going to sit down and dig their heels in.  They will be prepared to have him sit at least a year, so that eventually they can find common ground.  I think that’s  exactly what their hires indicate 

Agree, and with the Texans new Coach and GM... I can’t see them actually trading Watson unless they get value that’s unprecedented...price that a prudent GM like Douglas (Ozzie disciple) would never pay. 

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If I am NY or Miami, #2 or #3 are not part of any negotiations.   I'd rather give up both 1s next year and 23.  That is 3 ones.  

I am still not sold on him.  What happens when he throws another fit, and demands a trade, since it about him and not the other 52 guys that he is a "leader" of.  

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On 1/29/2021 at 10:08 AM, Shockwave said:

 

The Best Offers on the Table. 

Jets Offers

Lets say the Jets offer 1.2, 1.23 and next years first(Valued at 2.1).  This gives 3940 of value to Texans. 

Dolphins Offer

Dolphins offer 1.3, 1.18 and next years first(Valued at 2.1) This gives 3680 of value to Texans. 

To Beat the Jets the Dolphins would have to offer their later 2nd round pick this year. So 1.3, 1.18, 50 overall and a first next year. This gives the Texans 4080 of value. Is that small number enough to pass up on the chance to pick Zach Wilson? We shall see.  Do the Texans love Tua? Thats a factor but what is his value? If your the dolphins would you offer 3 First and Tua? 

 

To me, this above is the crux of the entire negotiation and of executing checkmate in a trade offer that the Fins can't touch.  In fact, the Jets could potentially offer a little less (ex. 1.2, 1.23, next year's 1st..... but get back something like a 4th or 5th this year from Houston) simply because the Jets offer includes the #2.

If the Texans are moving on from Watson and want a new rookie QB to start with under a new GM, new Head Coach, a 5-year rookie contract, etc. then the #2 is checkmate.  They'd get any QB not named Trevor Lawrence.

If the Texans want Tua then getting the 2nd or 3rd overall probably doesn't make much difference because they'd be out of the QB market in the Draft.  But if they trade Watson to the Fins for a huge package that doesn't include Tua, then they'd be taking a risk only coming up to #3 because the Jets could take a QB or trade back with someone like Atlanta who will take a QB.

IMO, this entire thing comes down to two questions...

1. Do the Jets and Dolphins both really want Watson?  I mean, I'm sure both teams would take him....but do they REALLY want him to the point of offering multiple 1sts?  I'm still not sure JD even wants to play this game.  He might throw his hat in the ring with the #23 and a 1st next year, but he may be unwilling to part with three 1st round picks in a two-year period for a rebuilding team that just hired a brand new HC.  I could see JD not wanting to put the "Win now" sign on Saleh's back in his very first game as a HC in the NFL.  And make no mistake, if you trade three 1st round picks for a consensus FQB then that's exactly what you've done.

2. If the Dolphins want Watson then do the Texans want Tua?  Do they Tua is still the same type of prospect he was coming out of Alabama, a potential FQB?  If they do then Tua + #3 and another pick or two probably gets this done for the Fins. 

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On 1/29/2021 at 1:54 PM, johnnysd said:

People refuse to see the big picture that trading all the draft resources they list in all these asinine trade proposals and the cap hit would lead to a worse overall team. 

Watson went 4-12 with a better roster than the Jets so just throw all that Top 5 BS out the door.

If we make the trade people are suggesting we will have Watson and not have a winning record the next 3 seasons.

It's idiotic.

Watson has averaged 400 more passing/rushing yards than the entire Jets offense last year with 10 more TDs.  The Jets had the worst QB production in the league last year.  He did it on a roster with very little talent on it for 2 coaches that got fired.

If you don't think Saleh is going to do a better job coaching up the guys on the Jets than Gase did, it doesn't really matter if the Jets trade for Watson or not.  If you don't think Douglas can use $70M in cap space and at least 1 draft pick in every round of this draft to build a better roster than the Texans had last year, the Jets are screwed anyway.

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