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JD will be judged by Watson's fate


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4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Watson's fate isn't in JD's hands and he won't be judged on that at all.

I do think how he approaches the QB situation will likely determine his long term fate.

I agree, but I don't think that is completely his decision alone. I'm sure he will get much input from Saleh and Lafleur...

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It is finally official. Deshaun Watson, a top 5 NFL QB at 25 is on the market.  Something like this simply doesn't happen in the NFL, but Houston through shear incompetence has made it possible. 

Ridiculous.  JD will be judged on team's win/loss record over the next 2-3 years.  The instant gratification set are guaranteed to be unhappy--regardless of what the Jets do about Watson--because the

Can't speak for anyone else, but I will judge Douglas on one basis and one basis only:  If Sam Darnold is the unquestioned starter of the team in 2021, I want him gone.   Watson may well be unwil

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I don't think the Texans want to trade Watson to the Dolphins just to get back their 3rd overall pick they gave up to the Dolphins. I think they'll be eyeing the No. 2 overall pick right in front of the Dolphins for their pick of either Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, or some huge haul trade back that nets them a bunch of more picks for their huge mess of a rebuild. That's why the 2nd overall pick is so valuable, it's really like the 1st overall pick because everyone knows the Jags are drafting that overrated long hair freak Trevor Lawrence, who I think has huge bust potential after that performance vs Thee Ohio State University.

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2 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

I've read a lot of your posts, and I can see why so many people downvote them... So I have nothing to worry about lol...

My rep score is good. 

Im as much of a Jets fan as it comes. 

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16 minutes ago, bitonti said:

there are no shortcuts

Coach Saleh says it every time he gets a microphone in front of him

there are no shortcuts

the board is full of fans who want a shortcut from 2-14 to 14-2 based on hope and dreams

yes there is an optimistic outcome where the jets trade for watson and become good right away

he could also tear his 3rd ACL and everyone involved gets fired

this board is very fast and loose with Woody's money and Joe Douglas's job security, neither man wants to rock the boat they just want to slowly build an affordable, non embarassing football program 

after Gase set the car on fire, it might take more than one offseason to restore this rust bucket  

bitonti - what is the $ difference per year in spending alot of woody's money and spending little of his money?

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2 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

I agree, but I don't think that is completely his decision alone. I'm sure he will get much input from Saleh and Lafleur...

Of course. But he hired those guys and he's the GM. At the end of the day the buck stops with him.

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1 minute ago, playtowinthegame said:

I don't think the Texans want to trade Watson to the Dolphins just to get back their 3rd overall pick they gave up to the Dolphins. I think they'll be eyeing the No. 2 overall pick right in front of the Dolphins for their pick of either Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, or some huge haul trade back that nets them a bunch of more picks for their huge mess of a rebuild. That's why the 2nd overall pick is so valuable, it's really like the 1st overall pick because everyone knows the Jags are drafting that overrated long hair freak Trevor Lawrence, who I think has huge bust potential after that performance vs Thee Ohio State University.

Which is why JD has to keep onto #2 if at all possible. If #2 has to be involved, then the offer should go way down.

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42 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

JD has proven to be a little shaky in FA in the last few years and made some questionable moves. With that said, he has proven, if anything he is good at tearing down talent, to acquire capital to obtain talent in the future

This is unfortunate, but, at least most are 1 yr. deals other than a couple of the OLmen. Didn't cause too much damage like past GM's with TJ, CJ

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7 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Yes. Within limits.

Of course if they ask 5 1sts no but that’s also an unreasonable ask. They will need to move him by the draft so they can adress their qb situation 

so give us parameters on what 3 first rounders (and other picks) you are talking about?

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4 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

bitonti - what is the $ difference per year in spending alot of woody's money and spending little of his money?

to us? nothing 

to Woody? everything 

the Jets are 70 million under the cap they didn't get there by accident. 

the Jets pocket hundreds of millions of tv dollars every year just for showing up. They don't have to actually be good or win games to make money.

and they haven't been good for maybe a decade. The last time they funded the roster properly was Rex Ryan. Turns out good players cost money.

The Jets trade away their good players they don't trade for good players. That's not how they operate, not for some time

yes there was a point when the Jets traded for Santonio Holmes or Favre or whatever. That might as well be ancient history in NFL terms. We've gone through like 5 head coaches since then.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, 68JET11 said:

Which is why JD has to keep onto #2 if at all possible. If #2 has to be involved, then the offer should go way down.

Are you saying if JD does include the 2nd overall pick, then anything else he offers should go way down? Give me an example. 

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Just now, bitonti said:

to us? nothing 

to Woody? everything 

the Jets are 70 million under the cap they didn't get there by accident. 

the Jets pocket hundreds of millions of tv dollars every year just for showing up. They don't have to actually be good or win games to make money.

and they haven't been good for maybe a decade. The last time they funded the roster properly was Rex Ryan. Turns out good players cost money.

The Jets trade away their good players they don't trade for good players. That's not how they operate.  

 

 

can you help me put some numbers around it - over say a 3 year period (so not taking one outlier season) - what is the difference between spending his money and not spending his money? how much per year?

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Jets fans: If Douglas doesn’t get Watson you have to fire him

 

Jets fans, three years after trading for Watson: Ugh that third rounder Douglas gave up in the Watson trade turned into a slot receiver who produces 42 catches per year. We sure could use a guy like that. 😭😭😭😭😭😭

Don't give up that 3rd rounder because we want to draft another defender from the Gators. lol

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46 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I think JD will be judged by his decision on Sam more than his decision on Watson's fate. I understand your point though.

 

What decision on Sam? Hegone. 

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49 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

It is finally official. Deshaun Watson, a top 5 NFL QB at 25 is on the market. 

Something like this simply doesn't happen in the NFL, but Houston through shear incompetence has made it possible. 

Its also official, there are only 3-5 NFL teams that are in SERIOUS contention for Watson, and more likely then not, 3 front runners....THE JETS AMONG THEM. 

So, now its up to JD to make it happen. I believe his tenure will be marked by the next couple months. JD has proven to be a little shaky in FA in the last few years and made some questionable moves. With that said, he has proven, if anything he is good at tearing down talent, to acquire capital to obtain talent in the future. That begins with finding a QB. I mean thats what half of this is about right? Look at the final four this year...Allen, Mahomes, Brady, Brees. Yes the QB position is the most important position in the fields and yes, in TODAYS NFL its hard to go deep into the playoffs with out one. Well, one is sitting out there for the taking. Will JD make it happen. We have a right to be skeptical, if JD treats the Robby deal like this one, we are in trouble. The kind of take it or leave it mode, scared to "overpay". Watson will cost 3 1st rounders at minimum plus Darnold at least. The Jets CAN and must make it happen. If JD is the draft guru many of you make it out to be we can still acquire talent with 3rd and 4ths and plug and play in FA. 

Something tells me Coach Salah is much more like lets get Watson to start this mariage off then an NFL talent unknown like Wilson (A project) or Fields (boom or bust) type talent.  The other scary play for JD passing on Watson being scared of "overpaying" is the second candidate for Watson, the Dolphins. One as a Jet Fan could imagine a scenario where the Jets pass and the Dolphins obtain Watson. We watch Watson and Allen battle it out for the decade while we roll with 8-8 type years with rookie QB and veteran plug ins. History will not judge JD well if that happens. 

JD...Make it happen. Dont get caught up on that extra 3d round pick and get in some haggling. This is your future, we need a QB, we can afford the QB. Get the QB. Or let history write your fate. 

I actually disagree with 100% of this post. Of all people in the Jets organization to most likely NOT want Watson is Saleh. Saleh will want his guy that he can develop most likely. Not saying he does not want Watson but I would say it is more likely he prefers to keep the picks to build an entire team.

Also, any Watson trade is way more dangerous than people think. In terms  It might make the front page of the Post but is a way riskier move than drafting Wilson (who like all QBs needs to develop but is not a project.

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52 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

It is finally official. Deshaun Watson, a top 5 NFL QB at 25 is on the market. 

Something like this simply doesn't happen in the NFL, but Houston through shear incompetence has made it possible. 

Its also official, there are only 3-5 NFL teams that are in SERIOUS contention for Watson, and more likely then not, 3 front runners....THE JETS AMONG THEM. 

So, now its up to JD to make it happen. I believe his tenure will be marked by the next couple months. JD has proven to be a little shaky in FA in the last few years and made some questionable moves. With that said, he has proven, if anything he is good at tearing down talent, to acquire capital to obtain talent in the future. That begins with finding a QB. I mean thats what half of this is about right? Look at the final four this year...Allen, Mahomes, Brady, Brees. Yes the QB position is the most important position in the fields and yes, in TODAYS NFL its hard to go deep into the playoffs with out one. Well, one is sitting out there for the taking. Will JD make it happen. We have a right to be skeptical, if JD treats the Robby deal like this one, we are in trouble. The kind of take it or leave it mode, scared to "overpay". Watson will cost 3 1st rounders at minimum plus Darnold at least. The Jets CAN and must make it happen. If JD is the draft guru many of you make it out to be we can still acquire talent with 3rd and 4ths and plug and play in FA. 

Something tells me Coach Salah is much more like lets get Watson to start this mariage off then an NFL talent unknown like Wilson (A project) or Fields (boom or bust) type talent.  The other scary play for JD passing on Watson being scared of "overpaying" is the second candidate for Watson, the Dolphins. One as a Jet Fan could imagine a scenario where the Jets pass and the Dolphins obtain Watson. We watch Watson and Allen battle it out for the decade while we roll with 8-8 type years with rookie QB and veteran plug ins. History will not judge JD well if that happens. 

JD...Make it happen. Dont get caught up on that extra 3d round pick and get in some haggling. This is your future, we need a QB, we can afford the QB. Get the QB. Or let history write your fate. 

What in THE F are you talking about.  JD will not be judged by this.

There are sooo many factors that are involved, the biggest right now is of which Houston just released a statement saying they have no intention of honouring this trade request.  

JD, like many GM's, will be interested if Watson does in fact become available.  Only one will get him.  And you can't give the farm away to out bid all the other teams so you can have one stud horse.  

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4 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

can you help me put some numbers around it - over say a 3 year period (so not taking one outlier season) - what is the difference between spending his money and not spending his money? how much per year?

the 2020 Salary Cap was like 180 million lets say.

The Jets had a high cap number due to all the dead money from trading Bell, McClendon, Adams etc. But their actual roster spend was way smaller than their cap number. Let's say they spent 110 million on players last year

that's the math the distance between the roster spend and the max cap number, they pocket i dunno 50-60 mil in unspent labor, that's cocktail napkin math for an outlier year where they really didn't try at all 

the CBA operates in 4 year cycles. Last year was year 1, traditionally when they save. most years they fund the roster to 88%-95% or whatever  and splash in year 4 on Trumaine Johnson and CJ mosley to get above the floor. So it's an average of 93% of the cap over 4 years. The distance between 93% and 100% that's profit. it's usually like 10-20 mil. 

that's on top of their TV contract money, tickets, concessions etc. What happened in 2020 i suspect the Jets made JD sign guys to 1 year deals because they knew they had to eat the tickets. 

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1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

It is finally official. Deshaun Watson, a top 5 NFL QB at 25 is on the market. 

Something like this simply doesn't happen in the NFL, but Houston through shear incompetence has made it possible. 

Its also official, there are only 3-5 NFL teams that are in SERIOUS contention for Watson, and more likely then not, 3 front runners....THE JETS AMONG THEM. 

So, now its up to JD to make it happen. I believe his tenure will be marked by the next couple months. JD has proven to be a little shaky in FA in the last few years and made some questionable moves. With that said, he has proven, if anything he is good at tearing down talent, to acquire capital to obtain talent in the future. That begins with finding a QB. I mean thats what half of this is about right? Look at the final four this year...Allen, Mahomes, Brady, Brees. Yes the QB position is the most important position in the fields and yes, in TODAYS NFL its hard to go deep into the playoffs with out one. Well, one is sitting out there for the taking. Will JD make it happen. We have a right to be skeptical, if JD treats the Robby deal like this one, we are in trouble. The kind of take it or leave it mode, scared to "overpay". Watson will cost 3 1st rounders at minimum plus Darnold at least. The Jets CAN and must make it happen. If JD is the draft guru many of you make it out to be we can still acquire talent with 3rd and 4ths and plug and play in FA. 

Something tells me Coach Salah is much more like lets get Watson to start this mariage off then an NFL talent unknown like Wilson (A project) or Fields (boom or bust) type talent.  The other scary play for JD passing on Watson being scared of "overpaying" is the second candidate for Watson, the Dolphins. One as a Jet Fan could imagine a scenario where the Jets pass and the Dolphins obtain Watson. We watch Watson and Allen battle it out for the decade while we roll with 8-8 type years with rookie QB and veteran plug ins. History will not judge JD well if that happens. 

JD...Make it happen. Dont get caught up on that extra 3d round pick and get in some haggling. This is your future, we need a QB, we can afford the QB. Get the QB. Or let history write your fate. 

I think JD will be judged by wins, losses, playoff appearances and playoff wins.  Same as every General Manager.

If he wins two Super Bowls, but didn't get Watson, he will not be judged by getting Watson.

If we go 0-16 the next three years with Watson, he will not be judged by getting Watson.

Fans have blown this hype bubble into a giant massive Jupiter of Hope (Hype), but life is far simpler. 

JD will stay if he wins, he won't if he loses. Everything is through THAT prism, not the prism of getting or not getting Watson.

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Just now, bitonti said:

the 2020 Salary Cap was like 180 million lets say.

The Jets had a high cap number due to all the dead money from trading Bell, McClendon, Adams etc. But their actual roster spend was way smaller than their cap number. Let's say they spent 110 million on players last year

that's the math the distance between the roster spend and the max cap number, they pocket i dunno 50-60 mil in unspent labor, that's cocktail napkin math for an outlier year where they really didn't try at all 

the CBA operates in 4 year cycles. Last year was year 1, traditionally when they save. most years they fund the roster to 88%-95% or whatever  and splash in year 4 on Trumaine Johnson and CJ mosley to get above the floor. So it's an average of 93% of the cap over 4 years. The distance between 93% and 100% that's profit. it's usually like 10-20 mil. 

that's on top of their TV contract money, tickets, concessions etc. What happened in 2020 i suspect the Jets made JD sign guys to 1 year deals because they knew they had to eat the tickets. 

your last point makes little sense as the cap incorporates the TV money so it's not "on top of"

but okay so your saying woody is saving around 12.5mm at most.  7% of 180mm.   (that's the MAX savings)

personally 2 points - if he could spend money and knew it would work out - of course he would do it.  the value of winning is huge in NYC both financially and reputation.  

second - and this goes to your point - you keep saying they are cheap but when i look at the CASH spending from 2016-2019 (4 years).  They are definitely NOT in the bottom 25%.  that's a fact that you ignore.   at most they are spending $3mm below the NFL average per year.  and it's debatable.

your keep saying stuff without any data.  it's your narrative and it's absolutely wrong. 

from 2016-2019 the bottom 8 teams were  

Cowboys: $634,379,000
Texans: $646,479,000
Bills: $648,442,000
Colts: $654,999,000
Chargers: $658,299,000
Ravens: $678,220,000
Browns: $687,708,000

the average was 703mm over those years.

so unless you can back up your statements with fact please stop.

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9 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

 - you keep saying they are cheap but when i look at the CASH spending from 2016-2019 (4 years).  They are definitely NOT in the bottom 25%.  that's a fact that you ignore.   at most they are spending $3mm below the NFL average per year.  and it's debatable.

your keep saying stuff without any data.  it's your narrative and it's absolutely wrong. 

from 2016-2019 the bottom 8 teams were  

Cowboys: $634,379,000
Texans: $646,479,000
Bills: $648,442,000
Colts: $654,999,000
Chargers: $658,299,000
Ravens: $678,220,000
Browns: $687,708,000

the average was 703mm over those years.

 

where are you getting these numbers?  here are the facts you asked for

now you Show your receipts please saying they are just 3 mil under a year. They are starving the beast and have been since Rex  

https://overthecap.com/positional-spending/

2020 Jets - 69 M on O, 60 M on D - 129 M spend (Colts spent over 200)

2019 Jets - 79 M on O, 82 M on D - 161 M spend 

2018 Jets - 77 M on O, 72 M on D - 149 M spend

2017 Jets - 58 M on O, 64 M on D - 122 M spend

2016 Jets - 66 M on O, 67 M on D - 133 M spend 

 

the Jets did not spend to the cap in any of those years going back to 2013 as far as the site goes

they weren't bottom 5 every year but they were consistently well under the cap and even under the floor at times 

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I agree with OP only because imo Joe Douglas is compromised and I honestly think as long as Sam doesn’t completely wet the bed next year the NYJ will be extending him. It sucks that our GM and QB share management and appear to be  committed to getting Darnold that payday 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If Sam Darnold is the unquestioned starter of the team in 2021, I want him gone.  

Its going to be so awesome when this happens.

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38 minutes ago, JiF said:

Drew Brees once won 2 games.   

Drew Brees has 7 seasons under .500.

Stupid Saints. 

Brees has been around for a long time

When did bree;s teams flounder?  Not enough other talent.

This actually makes the argument for NOT selling the farm for a QB.

How did the Saints get back into contention as a good team this last time?  By having an epically good 2017 draft.

The Jets need a QB and they need  long term one.  Deshuan Watson is an opportunity but he is not the only QB out there over the next few years.

I'm sticking by my long held best practice theory, build the team and then get the QB.

 

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26 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

JD will be judged by the success of his team.  Not players on other teams.

 

Nothing more.

Nothing less. 

 

23 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

 

JD will be judged by the NY Jets results on the field.

Period. Stop.

 

How is that going so far? 

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1 hour ago, batman10023 said:

so give us parameters on what 3 first rounders (and other picks) you are talking about?

The ask will be the 2 and then I say we ship them one of next years 1sts and 2023 first and Darnold 

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56 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I think JD will be judged by wins, losses, playoff appearances and playoff wins.  Same as every General Manager.

If he wins two Super Bowls, but didn't get Watson, he will not be judged by getting Watson.

If we go 0-16 the next three years with Watson, he will not be judged by getting Watson.

Fans have blown this hype bubble into a giant massive Jupiter of Hope (Hype), but life is far simpler. 

JD will stay if he wins, he won't if he loses. Everything is through THAT prism, not the prism of getting or not getting Watson.

Odds of us going to the super bowl with a top 5 qb like Watson are a lot greater then going with Zach Wilson in 3-4 years 

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1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

What in THE F are you talking about.  JD will not be judged by this.

There are sooo many factors that are involved, the biggest right now is of which Houston just released a statement saying they have no intention of honouring this trade request.  

JD, like many GM's, will be interested if Watson does in fact become available.  Only one will get him.  And you can't give the farm away to out bid all the other teams so you can have one stud horse.  

Yes you can give the farm and must for a quality qb. They can have a haul of Zunigas and Ashton Davis type picks 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Jets fans: If Douglas doesn’t get Watson you have to fire him

 

Jets fans, three years after trading for Watson: Ugh that third rounder Douglas gave up in the Watson trade turned into a slot receiver who produces 42 catches per year. We sure could use a guy like that. 😭😭😭😭😭😭

Please list the 3rd rounders in Jet history who have made an impact....I will wait 

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