The ***OFFICIAL*** Sammy is coming back THREAD let's talk about the weaponz we can add with our top picks

[Philc1]

13 hours ago, undertow said:

The more people that hate Darnold the more confident I am in him developing into a very good QB....popular opinion on these boards are you usually completely off.

A crap roster, an even crappier head coach and somehow he’s supposed to be great here 

 

Put any other QBs here from the 2018 draft with Gase, a terrible Oline, terrible WRs they suck too

[Dunnie]

A crap roster, an even crappier head coach and somehow he’s supposed to be great here 
 
Put any other QBs here from the 2018 draft with Gase, a terrible Oline, terrible WRs they suck too

I'd love to see Watson with a roster like what we have fielded the past two years to shut the All-In-For-Watson people the **** up.

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[Dunnie]

I don't understand why some believe that building up the roster this offseason somehow doesn't include trying to find a QB of the future this offseason.  
A QB is part of the roster.  The Jets have the # 2 pick.  Teams with high picks need QB's and usually take QB's.  
Build the roster and find a QB.  Both very possible, not mutually exclusive goals.

Wait a second ... weren't you just clamoring to give up whatever for Watson in another thread ? How are you going to build up the roster if you sell the farm for him ???

Answer: your not going to and you be mired at 6-10 to 9-7 for the next 5 years.

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[Biggs]

57 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Wait a second ... weren't you just clamoring to give up whatever for Watson in another thread ? How are you going to build up the roster if you sell the farm for him ???

Answer: your not going to and you be mired at 6-10 to 9-7 for the next 5 years.

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We don't have to sell the farm for him.  We have to sell off the back 100 acres next to the toxic dump that's produced 1 acre of pig feed for the last 45 years.

[Lith]

19 hours ago, Grandy said:

Doesnt this make the whole preserve picks to build thing redundant because at the end of the day, we need to use capital to move up just in the future? Which based on past trends of top picks could very well warrant 3 first round picks which is the same as a Deshaun mock?

Agreed.  You acquire a potential franchise QB when you can.  Whether by trade or through the draft.  A proven 25 year old top 5 QB may available THIS OFFSEASON.  We have our choice of any QB in the draft except Lawrence, assuming he goes #1 THIS OFFSEASON.  All of this trade back, acquire picks, build the team and trade up for the top the QB next year.  It has been 50 years that we have been searching for a franchise QB.  And we are just going to be able to snap our fingers and acquire one next season.  Its not that simple.

What if we are picking 15 next season, and the top 2 or 3 teams in the draft need QBs and won't trade out at any price.  What if Detroit, who now owns 2 1s can put together a more attractive package than we can.  We could be looking at the 3rd or 4th option in the draft.  If Watson is not available, and JD/Saleh don't believe in any of the QB prospects at 2, then fine.  Build the team.  But if we have a chance to finally solve the QB position after 5 decades, don't wait a year to see if Sam can be the guy.  That is a very Maccagnan-esque strategy.

 

[munchmemory]

18 hours ago, undertow said:

The more people that hate Darnold the more confident I am in him developing into a very good QB....popular opinion on these boards are you usually completely off.

So, hate creates a "vibe"/cosmic energy which transforms inadequate QBs into stars?

[Jets723]

20 hours ago, mrcoops said:

Waddle after a trade down into the teens. Smith or Chase if we stay top ten.

I'm not big on Etienne, and not a fan of RBs in the first generally, so would really like an OL at 23 or possibly a pass-rusher.

Agree 

[Biggs]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

A crap roster, an even crappier head coach and somehow he’s supposed to be great here 

 

Put any other QBs here from the 2018 draft with Gase, a terrible Oline, terrible WRs they suck too

There's a difference between great and awful.  It's possible another QB in the same circumstances would have sucked less than Sam did. 

[BP]

20 hours ago, Savage69 said:

I don't know if Sam is shot or not but in their first few years Vinny and Steve Young looked like crap on a bad Tampa team.. As good as Watson is he still went 4-10 on a bad team Sam went 7-9 on a bad team in 2019..

Happy birthday kid!!

Excellent point! 

[Lith]

45 minutes ago, Biggs said:

We don't have to sell the farm for him.  We have to sell off the back 100 acres next to the toxic dump that's produced 1 acre of pig feed for the last 45 years.

This.  We would have to give up a lot for Watson, but thanks to the Jamal trade, we can do it and still have resource to build around him.  When we drafted Darnold in '18, we had 4 premium picks to use over the next two years after drafting him.  A 3 in 2018 and a 1 and two 3s in 2019.  And we used three of those picks on defensive players.  Macc did not even try to build around Sam.  

If we trade 4 1s for Watson, both 1s this year and 1s in 22 and 23, (which is more than it would probably take given the value of 2 overall).  We would still have 6 day 1 & day 2 picks over the next two years: 34, 66 & 86 this year plus one pick in each of the first three rounds next year.  And we would likely be able to add another day 2 pick this year for Darnold.  Likely 7 premium picks compared to 4 after selecting Darnold.  Plus cap space to spend on FAs who might be more likely to want to play with Watson than Darnold.  Add a WR and OL in FA, and use 4 of those 7 picks on offense and we have transformed the offense with 4-6 new starters (assuming some draftees will bust) plus Watson in 2 years.

I don't think Watson gets traded, but I am not buying the argument that we shoudn't try to acquire him if he is available because we won't be able to build around him.

 

[Biggs]

8 minutes ago, Lith said:

This.  We would have to give up a lot for Watson, but thanks to the Jamal trade, we can do it and still have resource to build around him.  When we drafted Darnold in '18, we had 4 premium picks to use over the next two years after drafting him.  A 3 in 2018 and a 1 and two 3s in 2019.  And we used three of those picks on defensive players.  Macc did not even try to build around Sam.  

If we trade 4 1s for Watson (both 1s this year and 1s in 22 and 23, (which is more than it would probably take given the value of 2 overall).  We would still have 6 day 1 & day 2 picks over the next two years: 34, 66 & 86 this year plus one pick in each of the first three rounds next year.  And we would likely be able to add another day 2 pick this year for Darnold.  Likely 7 premium picks compared to 4 after selecting Darnold.  Plus cap space to spend on FAs who might be more likely to want to play with Watson than Darnold.  Add a WR and OL in FA, and use 4 of those 7 picks on offense and we have transformed the offense with 4-6 new starters (assuming some draftees will bust) plus Watson in 2 years.

I don't think Watson gets traded, but I am not buying the argument that we shoudn't try to acquire him if he is available because we won't be able to build around him.

 

Or we can use 1 pick on a QB and hopefully get a 3rd or better for Sam.  I like Watson and in a perverse way using the same draft capital to get Watson as was used to get Sam and Adams is the perfect way for Douglas to crap on Mac. 
 

There is more than one way to do this.  We don’t have to trade for Watson and we can trade Sam. 

[kdels62]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

A crap roster, an even crappier head coach and somehow he’s supposed to be great here 

 

Put any other QBs here from the 2018 draft with Gase, a terrible Oline, terrible WRs they suck too

But if you had put Watson from the 2017 draft he would’ve been good. Like he was this year, with a terrible coach, crap OL, and no talent around him.

[Lith]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Or we can use 1 pick on a QB and hopefully get a 3rd or better for Sam.  I like Watson and in a perverse way using the same draft capital to get Watson as was used to get Sam and Adams is the perfect way for Douglas to crap on Mac. 
 

There is more than one way to do this.  We don’t have to draft Watson and we can trade Sam. 

Agreed.  There are multiple ways to build a team.  I prefer solving for the QB this year.  I believe the whole Watson thing is a pipe dream that is never gonna happen.  Just take the QB at 2 and we still have a ton of resource to build around him.  We don't need to put the decision off a year to build for the QB first. 

We have plenty of options, but the least attractive to me is run Sam out there for another year and hope to find the QB in 22.

[undertow]

2 hours ago, munchmemory said:

So, hate creates a "vibe"/cosmic energy which transforms inadequate QBs into stars?

LOL  No most people are morons so just do the opposite of what they think.

[ZachEY]

18 hours ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Remember when we passed on mahomes and watson because of Hackenberg? Its happening again! Wohoooo!

In fairness, it was worth it to be completely sure that Hackenberg wasn't the answer.

[ZachEY]

9 hours ago, MykePM said:

Maybe I’m dense, but I’m not sure if the theory is that Sexton is coercing Joe Douglas to...

1. Just talk Darnold up, to increase his value

2. Hold onto Darnold and hand him the starting job on a silver platter, whether he’s earned it or not

3. Ultimately sign Darnold to a lucrative extension, whether he’s earned it or not

#1 might be in the Jets interest, if it somehow increases the return from trading Sam (although that’s a stretch), but #2 and #3 would be detrimental to the Jets and Douglas’s career if Sam continues to perform poorly.  So is Sexton’s influence so strong over Douglas that Joe D. would sabotage his own job to earn Sexton some extra money?  Or is the theory that Sexton would share the wealth with Douglas, and perhaps Robert Saleh too, as he’s speaking highly of Sam also?

Please spell this out directly, without innuendo, as if I were a child, because it makes no sense at all to me.

 

The theory is that Sexton offers Douglas a commission to get Darnold a massive extension that he will not otherwise earn as a football player, because, Darnold is absolutely terrible, as per his actual on field football performance.

Due to the enormous amount of cash involved in said extension, Douglas stands to make more money doing this than he does by doing well at his job.  He has a guaranteed contract for 6 years (I think), his next opportunity is in year 5, and that's only if all goes well.  If he gets fired, he still gets all the money.  So, getting a couple points on a Darnold extension is the most likely, fastest way to new money for Douglas.

Sexton, Darnold, Douglas, et. al all do this to make money, not for the reasons you and I watch the games.

Is happening?  I have no idea.  I sure hope not.  But, I won't pretend it's not concerning.

[Pac]

6 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

The theory is that Sexton offers Douglas a commission to get Darnold a massive extension that he will not otherwise earn as a football player, because, Darnold is absolutely terrible, as per his actual on field football performance.

Due to the enormous amount of cash involved in said extension, Douglas stands to make more money doing this than he does by doing well at his job.  He has a guaranteed contract for 6 years (I think), his next opportunity is in year 5, and that's only if all goes well.  If he gets fired, he still gets all the money.  So, getting a couple points on a Darnold extension is the most likely, fastest way to new money for Douglas.

Sexton, Darnold, Douglas, et. al all do this to make money, not for the reasons you and I watch the games.

Is happening?  I have no idea.  I sure hope not.  But, I won't pretend it's not concerning.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

2 hours ago, Lith said:

Agreed.  There are multiple ways to build a team.  I prefer solving for the QB this year.  I believe the whole Watson thing is a pipe dream that is never gonna happen.  Just take the QB at 2 and we still have a ton of resource to build around him.  We don't need to put the decision off a year to build for the QB first. 

We have plenty of options, but the least attractive to me is run Sam out there for another year and hope to find the QB in 22.

I have no problem keeping Sam and having him start the season while having the 2nd overall pick start off the bench. Sam can be the Tyron Taylor to Hebbert or the Drew Bress to Rivers.

[Charlie Brown]

14 hours ago, freestater said:

Oh...I'm all in on getting Deshaun Watson. All in. Thought he was going to be ours in '17. Alas, an idiot was in charge. I'd be willing to give up 3 1sts for him. But none of that matters. Read the tea leaves. The wheels are being greased to bring Sammy back for one more run. Its gonna happen. As Dr. Moga might say, lay some serious coin on it. So, with reality giving a good cold hard slap...who ya want at #2?

Fields......

[Bronx]

Just stop doing this $hit and I'm good!

[freestater]

53 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

In fairness, it was worth it to be completely sure that Hackenberg wasn't the answer.

[Philc1]

5 hours ago, Dunnie said:

I'd love to see Watson with a roster like what we have fielded the past two years to shut the All-In-For-Watson people the **** up.

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Watson just went 4-12 with a better team

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, kdels62 said:

But if you had put Watson from the 2017 draft he would’ve been good. Like he was this year, with a terrible coach, crap OL, and no talent around him.

4-12 or 3-13 good I suppose

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, Biggs said:

There's a difference between great and awful.  It's possible another QB in the same circumstances would have sucked less than Sam did. 

Compare Josh Allen’s supporting cast and coaching staff to this sh tshow 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

While I’m not endorsing it as happening... it’s not even mildly complex or far fetched.

[MykePM]

40 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

The theory is that Sexton offers Douglas a commission to get Darnold a massive extension that he will not otherwise earn as a football player, because, Darnold is absolutely terrible, as per his actual on field football performance.

Due to the enormous amount of cash involved in said extension, Douglas stands to make more money doing this than he does by doing well at his job.  He has a guaranteed contract for 6 years (I think), his next opportunity is in year 5, and that's only if all goes well.  If he gets fired, he still gets all the money.  So, getting a couple points on a Darnold extension is the most likely, fastest way to new money for Douglas.

Sexton, Darnold, Douglas, et. al all do this to make money, not for the reasons you and I watch the games.

Is happening?  I have no idea.  I sure hope not.  But, I won't pretend it's not concerning.

Thanks for explaining all that.  At least I understand the theory now.

Is it possible that something like that could happen or even does happen?  Yeah, I guess so.  But if anyone is going to put a significant level of probability on this really unfolding that way, just because Douglas and Darnold share the same agent, you might as well give up following the NFL - because there are probably hundreds of “conflict of interest” scenarios that have comparable evidence to support them.

Hey, maybe Brad Holmes (new Lions GM) took a payoff from his old team to take the Goff contract off their books.  I joked in another thread about Darnold deliberately throwing interceptions to other Sexton clients to pad their stats.  Maybe there’s actually something to that.  Especially if Sexton is going to “make things right” for him later (wink wink).

Unless someone can produce other evidence, like bank records showing that Douglas is millions of dollars in debt, I think I’ll leave it to the feds and the guys in tin foil hats to figure out where all of the potential corruption in the NFL will occur.

[BornJetsFan1983]

Go WR OT RB CB

[PepPep]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

The theory is that Sexton offers Douglas a commission to get Darnold a massive extension that he will not otherwise earn as a football player, because, Darnold is absolutely terrible, as per his actual on field football performance.

Due to the enormous amount of cash involved in said extension, Douglas stands to make more money doing this than he does by doing well at his job.  He has a guaranteed contract for 6 years (I think), his next opportunity is in year 5, and that's only if all goes well.  If he gets fired, he still gets all the money.  So, getting a couple points on a Darnold extension is the most likely, fastest way to new money for Douglas.

Sexton, Darnold, Douglas, et. al all do this to make money, not for the reasons you and I watch the games.

Is happening?  I have no idea.  I sure hope not.  But, I won't pretend it's not concerning.

Call me naive but I think Douglas might care just a tiny bit about his legacy and actually wants to win. It's not like he needs the money. Just seems to me like this theory is a stretch because if JD really believed Darnold was no good he would dump him ASAP for the good of the team (and his own legacy) regardless of who the agent was. 

[kdels62]

33 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

4-12 or 3-13 good I suppose

Wins are not a QB stat. Otherwise you’d have to admit that Sam Darnold is a bust.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

I have no problem keeping Sam and having him start the season while having the 2nd overall pick start off the bench. Sam can be the Tyron Taylor to Hebbert or the Drew Bress to Rivers.

I'm impressed.  You managed to misspell all three QB's names in an 8 word span.  This is next-level!

 

[ZachEY]

21 minutes ago, MykePM said:

Thanks for explaining all that.  At least I understand the theory now.

Is it possible that something like that could happen or even does happen?  Yeah, I guess so.  But if anyone is going to put a significant level of probability on this really unfolding that way, just because Douglas and Darnold share the same agent, you might as well give up following the NFL - because there are probably hundreds of “conflict of interest” scenarios that have comparable evidence to support them.

Hey, maybe Brad Holmes (new Lions GM) took a payoff from his old team to take the Goff contract off their books.  I joked in another thread about Darnold deliberately throwing interceptions to other Sexton clients to pad their stats.  Maybe there’s actually something to that.  Especially if Sexton is going to “make things right” for him later (wink wink).

Unless someone can produce other evidence, like bank records showing that Douglas is millions of dollars in debt, I think I’ll leave it to the feds and the guys in tin foil hats to figure out where all of the potential corruption in the NFL will occur.

I have no doubt there are other conflict of interests, but I imagine the young QB on a rookie deal and GM isn't super common.  I'll never be able to show hard evidence, and frankly, as I said, have no idea if it's happening, but the idea isn't even a little far fetched.  And, I don't think Douglas needs to be in debt, or any kind of trouble to like more money.  

All we actually know is that 1) Joe Douglas and Sam Darnold share representation, which does, at least to some degree, represent a conflict of interest.  2) Sam Darnold has performed poorly.  3) The Jets have not made any meaningful overtures to upgrade the most important position in the league.

There's more data to be collected, but if they "roll it back with Sam" with another bad veteran backup, when sitting at #2, it's not a good look.  At all.  Because, the alternative is convincing yourself of the narrative that "this is a business" only applies to players in free agency, and that everyone does this to win championships, not make money.

5 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Call me naive but I think Douglas might care just a tiny bit about his legacy and actually wants to win. It's not like he needs the money. Just seems to me like this theory is a stretch because if JD really believed Darnold was no good he would dump him ASAP for the good of the team (and his own legacy) regardless of who the agent was. 

Why do you think this?  We don't have any evidence to say he does.  We don't have any evidence to say he doesn't either.  But, why do we believe he cares about legacy?  The only evidence we have regarding legacy is him taking the Jets job, which, lets be honest, is not a great legacy play.

But, you're making an assumption and then following up the obvious facts if your assumption is correct.  Maybe dude is just trying to maximize his earning potential while he has it?

[PepPep]

10 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I have no doubt there are other conflict of interests, but I imagine the young QB on a rookie deal and GM isn't super common.  I'll never be able to show hard evidence, and frankly, as I said, have no idea if it's happening, but the idea isn't even a little far fetched.  And, I don't think Douglas needs to be in debt, or any kind of trouble to like more money.  

All we actually know is that 1) Joe Douglas and Sam Darnold share representation, which does, at least to some degree, represent a conflict of interest.  2) Sam Darnold has performed poorly.  3) The Jets have not made any meaningful overtures to upgrade the most important position in the league.

There's more data to be collected, but if they "roll it back with Sam" with another bad veteran backup, when sitting at #2, it's not a good look.  At all.  Because, the alternative is convincing yourself of the narrative that "this is a business" only applies to players in free agency, and that everyone does this to win championships, not make money.

Why do you think this?  We don't have any evidence to say he does.  We don't have any evidence to say he doesn't either.  But, why do we believe he cares about legacy?  The only evidence we have regarding legacy is him taking the Jets job, which, lets be honest, is not a great legacy play.

But, you're making an assumption and then following up the obvious facts if your assumption is correct.  Maybe dude is just trying to maximize his earning potential while he has it?

I may be completely wrong. Just seems to me when you already have a ton of money and a guaranteed 6 yr contract. when you have been signed as a first time GM you want to prove you can be good at your job, you want to prove you can turn around a franchise and win. Obviously, I don't know the guy. Just seems to me, why would JD come to the Jets and take this VERY lucrative job with no intention of doing everything he can to win. Furthermore, wouldn't it maximize his future earnings if he was able to prove that he is a winning GM, prove that he could take a pathetic Franchise like the Jets and turn it around? Then he could name his number during contract negotiations. Way easier than the shady dealing this theory suggests. LOL.  

[Guilhermezmc]

1 hour ago, Bronx said:

Just stop doing this $hit and I'm good!

Lack of weaponz

[LAD_Brooklyn]

40 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I'm impressed.  You managed to misspell all three QB's names in an 8 word span.  This is next-level!

 

No that's all right. To continue Bledsue to Tom Bradley, Montama to Stevie Yang.

[Savage69]

56 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I'm impressed.  You managed to misspell all three QB's names in an 8 word span.  This is next-level!

 

So no gold star for him??