Texans’ Demands For Deshaun Watson Trade Revealed

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Screw this McLain Idiot ... sounds like a homer trying to sweeten the deal for the Idiot team he roots for.

Im all in

[sourceworx]

36 minutes ago, TnT said:

This years #23, a 3rd and 5th (both extras)

2022 Seattle 1st

Fatukasi, Cashman, James Morgan

 

Trade back a from #2, pick up more picks

 

Trade Sam to highest bidder. 

Ditch the fantasy of getting Deshaun Watson without giving up the #2 pick. The only way Houston saves any face in this debacle is by getting the top rated  QB in this draft not named Trevor Lawrence. 

[TnT]

6 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Ditch the fantasy of getting Deshaun Watson without giving up the #2 pick. The only way Houston saves any face in this debacle is by getting the top rated  QB in this draft not named Trevor Lawrence. 

Ok, fantasy ditched

feel better?

[sourceworx]

Just now, TnT said:

Ok, fantasy ditched

feel better?

Very much so!

[32EBoozer]

20 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Im all in

[nycdan]

10 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Ditch the fantasy of getting Deshaun Watson without giving up the #2 pick. The only way Houston saves any face in this debacle is by getting the top rated  QB in this draft not named Trevor Lawrence. 

But....but.....Kevin Costner once got the #6 pick in the draft for three 2nd round picks.  True story!

[TnT]

2 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Very much so!

Niiiiiiiiice

would you agree that the #2 pick significantly lowers the package they get?

I mean, seems silly they would want much more than a QB of their choice not named TL for a QB with a trade clause that’s willing to sit out in order not to play another down for the franchise.

#2 ...3rd and 5th

Seattles 2022 1st

I think a third 1st for them is too much

not too much for Desean, but too much for the position they’re in

[Integrity28]

On 1/31/2021 at 2:19 PM, Savage69 said:

McClain is the Manish type writer for the Texans.

Umm, no.

On 1/31/2021 at 3:15 PM, bitonti said:

McClain is like one of the most respected football writers in America 

No one source attacks like Jets fans 

 

This.

[TnT]

8 minutes ago, nycdan said:

But....but.....Kevin Costner once got the #6 pick in the draft for three 2nd round picks.  True story!

If you had something to say instead of insinuating someone is dumb but on another persons post, you should say it, don’t be a sniveling pu$$y.

lowballing them when they’re highballing is a tactic.

[JohnnyLV]

10 hours ago, football guy said:

He's never had to deal with pressure. His entire career has practically been 7-on-7 given the lack of competition/scheme he plays in/elite level OL play at the college level. Only game he faced pressure that I can think of is against Coastal Carolina. Couple that with his frame and preexisting injury issues, I'd be concerned rushing him onto the field too early in a scheme that places a heavy emphasis on OL chemistry and timing. I'd prefer he spends time in his rookie year learning the protection scheme, blitz pickup, and how NFL defenses will attack him.  

Lesser concern to monitor: despite all of Wilson's impressive throws, he did have a lot of guys that were running wide open. That's not as much of a concern for him given that he's shown a consistent ability to make ridiculous instinctual throws with rare anticipation, but he did throw way too many yolo/hospital balls that won't work in the NFL. His arm is better than Darnold's, but he's very similar in that he throws off-platform, doesn't step into throws, and displays inconsistent throwing mechanics. He got away with it at BYU, but I'm sure scouts would say these issues would have resulted in more turnovers against better competition. Personally, that doesn't bother me because he's likely headed to a good coaching staff (better than Sam's ever had), but it'll be hard for him to adjust starting from day 1.

 

Ideally, whoever drafts Wilson should have a veteran stop-gap. Force him to outplay the veteran in order to get on the field. You know he's eventually going to get on the field in his rookie year so don't worry too much about when (strategically the Dolphins plan to set a predetermined date was good even though I wasn't a fan of it at the time nor am I a fan of Tua), but I'd like to keep the competition honest. Feel like it forces younger players to focus and compete that much more, especially in training camp, while allowing them to focus less on 1st team reps and more on fundamentals and enhancing their recall. 

Your two posts on Wilson are excellent. I think I differ with the conclusion though. The Jets have already built up a lot of additional draft capital and tons of cap space. With a new head coach, the success of Saleh and Douglas now attached at the hip, couple with the success teams have had with first contract QBs and the fact that Wilson is a really good fit for the WC offense it just seems like a perfect storm for me. At this point I would sort of expect the Jets to still be 50/50 on the build around Sam option, but I suspect as they do more and more evaluation they will decide that Wilson is "their guy" and just make the choice. I do not expect us to be serious players in the Watson thing. We have more ammo, but we lose more in a Watson trade than others. I think he winds up in the NFC probably to some team that did not seem to be mentioned a lot in the process. 

If Sam can really net a late first we still have 4 first rounders in next 2 years to build around a QB at 2,

Trading essentially 4+ firs t rounders if 2 is included just does not seem like a JD move.

Of course there is also the evaluations that will happen of the other QBs (Trask and Jones especially) in the draft as well as Mike White and James Morgan so still very possible they trade down too, but I just get the feeling that JD and Saleh will want to hitch their star to a QB at #2.  

Lastly someone has to want to trade to #2 because it is super expensive. If a couple GMs don't fall in love with Fields or Wilson we might not be able to trade at least not for full value.

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, TnT said:

If you had something to say instead of insinuating someone is dumb but on another persons post, you should say it, don’t be a sniveling pu$$y.

lowballing them when they’re highballing is a tactic.

[joewilly12]

35 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Im all in

[TnT]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

☝?From the neutered primate

[Jet Nut]

10 minutes ago, TnT said:

If you had something to say instead of insinuating someone is dumb but on another persons post, you should say it, don’t be a sniveling pu$$y.

lowballing them when they’re highballing is a tactic.

 

[Jets Things]

18 minutes ago, TnT said:

If you had something to say instead of insinuating someone is dumb but on another persons post, you should say it, don’t be a sniveling pu$$y.

lowballing them when they’re highballing is a tactic.

 

16 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

[32EBoozer]

18 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

His arm is better than Darnold's, but he's very similar in that he throws off-platform, doesn't step into throws, and displays inconsistent throwing mechanics.

The fact that we have actually hired a QB coach blows my mind! How Sammy has had to go it alone in trying to correct his poor mechanics is criminal. Wilson/Fields will be ahead of Darnold and flatten the learning curve for this reason alone. 

[Jetsfan80]

17 hours ago, neckdemon said:

it's not a straight up trade. it's quinnen williams along with 3-4 first round picks. it's stupid

No one thinks the Texans will actually get what they are demanding.  Even the Texans.  

[Philc1]

39 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No one thinks the Texans will actually get what they are demanding.  Even the Texans.  

Even after Matty “0 playoff wins” Stratford gets 2 first round picks?

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

But....but.....Kevin Costner once got the #6 pick in the draft for three 2nd round picks.  True story!

He also built a baseball field out of a corn farm and the ghost of Shoeless Joe Jackson showed up

[Jets723]

I’ve always  felt the odds of this actually happening are pretty slim.  Not JD’s philosophy he wants to build through the draft  especially with the lack of talent we have. Texans will get a monster return and they know that so no need to rush until they get what they want 

[nycdan]

3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

He also built a baseball field out of a corn farm and the ghost of Shoeless Joe Jackson showed up

Kevin is a formidable guy!  Remember the time he captured Al Capone?  

[football guy]

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Your two posts on Wilson are excellent. I think I differ with the conclusion though. The Jets have already built up a lot of additional draft capital and tons of cap space. With a new head coach, the success of Saleh and Douglas now attached at the hip, couple with the success teams have had with first contract QBs and the fact that Wilson is a really good fit for the WC offense it just seems like a perfect storm for me. At this point I would sort of expect the Jets to still be 50/50 on the build around Sam option, but I suspect as they do more and more evaluation they will decide that Wilson is "their guy" and just make the choice. I do not expect us to be serious players in the Watson thing. We have more ammo, but we lose more in a Watson trade than others. I think he winds up in the NFC probably to some team that did not seem to be mentioned a lot in the process. 

If Sam can really net a late first we still have 4 first rounders in next 2 years to build around a QB at 2,

Trading essentially 4+ firs t rounders if 2 is included just does not seem like a JD move.

Of course there is also the evaluations that will happen of the other QBs (Trask and Jones especially) in the draft as well as Mike White and James Morgan so still very possible they trade down too, but I just get the feeling that JD and Saleh will want to hitch their star to a QB at #2.  

Lastly someone has to want to trade to #2 because it is super expensive. If a couple GMs don't fall in love with Fields or Wilson we might not be able to trade at least not for full value.

I really do love him as a prospect. I don't say this simply because we're drafting #2 (I was telling friends the same thing when it looked like we were going 0-16), but I like Zach Wilson the most of any QB prospect since Mahomes --- that includes Trevor Lawrence (who I don't think is going to be as great as everyone says he will be). Now if I were running a team I can't say I'd dare to take that risk, but Wilson has that "it" factor you look for. He makes throws that most QBs can't or won't dare to make. 

 

It's not an insult to say that a QB is raw or needs time to develop. I'm a big believer that QBs need to be developed and feel most QBs bust less because they're not capable and more because they're not developed properly. I pretty much separate QB prospects into these 2 buckets: 

Thoroughbred/Cerebral Precision Passers: There are QBs out there that I believe just know how to play from a young age because they are well trained, have a high football IQ, are good decision-makers, and are going to fulfill their potential regardless what's going on around them... they have high floors and could have high ceilings as well. At their very worst they're game managers, at their very best they're cerebral prerecession passers who know how to beat a defense in a variety of ways. You don't have to alter tailor your offense to these players; they'll come in and execute what you ask, and the player's raw talent will determine how explosive that offense can be. QB prospects that come to mind... 

• Trevor Lawrence 
• Deshaun Watson
• Andrew Luck 
• Matt Ryan 
• Carson Wentz
• Teddy Bridgewater 
• Blaine Gabbert 
• Josh Rosen 
• Matthew Stafford
• Daniel Jones 
• Ben Roethlisberger

Gunslinger/Developmental System Passers; Then, there are unconventional QBs who have rare, explosive characteristics which if harnessed and developed properly, could result in elite production. They're pretty much multi-sport athletes who just have "it". These, in my mind, are developmental/system QBs... but when I say "developmental/system" it's no disrespect to that player. They could easily develop into the games top QB (see Aaron Rodgers), but they need a lot more "hand holding" early on as it pertains to coaching, scheme, game plan, and responsibilities. Once they fully mature they can beat defenses cerebrally, but it will take a lot more coaching than your traditional "thoroughbred". However, they can just as easily fall flat if they're not paired with the right coach/scheme early on. Some QBs that come to mind... 

• Zach Wilson
• Patrick Mahomes 
• Aaron Rodgers 
• Kyler Murray 
• Sam Darnold 
• Josh Allen 
• Cam Newton
• Derek Carr 
• Ryan Tannehill 
• Alex Smith 
• Mitchell Trubisky
• Russell Wilson

 

I'm just thinking back off the top of my head so apologies for the random order, but notice that I'm not segregating them based on who was a bust or whose upside was highest and whatnot. There are QBs on the first list who are elite just as the second. The difference is that the QBs on the second list have lower floors because there's a greater propensity that they'll come out flat if the offense isn't catered to them or if the coaching isn't a match. 

 

 

I think Wilson is a match with this staff, and I think he has the potential to be a fantastic QB. But it's bigger than that. The Jets have to consider how long it may take him to be ready, what accommodations do they have to make, and most importantly, how much higher is his potential than Darnold's and what can they get in return for Darnold vs. the #2 pick. 

To give you an example: lets say the Jets think that Sam Darnold can realistically develop into an 83/100 overall player (top 16 QB), and think that Zach Wilson can be a 92/100 overall player (top 5 QB), what's more valuable to the team?

Option 1

• Sam Darnold (83 overall x3 weighted value) + trade #2 for 2021 1st round pick (+80 overall), 2021 2nd round pick (+70 overall), 2021 4th round pick (+50 overall), 2022 1st round pick (+75 overall), and 2022 3rd round pick (+65 overall)
• 6 players, +589 overall in potential value acquired over 2 years. 

Option 2

• Zach Wilson (92 overall x3 weighted value) + trade Darnold for 2021 2nd round pick (+70 overall), 2021 5th round pick (+40 overall)
• 3 players, +386 overall in potential value acquired over 1 years. 

 

This is a flawed metric of evaluating (the Jets grading/positional weighted value is much more sophisticated), but that's pretty much what the Jets are trying to figure out. If they think that Zach Wilson can be a 96 overall and they estimate that Darnold's ceiling is say a 75 overall player, that changes things. But if they think Darnold can be a top 16 QB, I think they hedge and bypass the opportunity to take a QB with top 5 potential in order to collect a ton of players who have a bunch of potential, while also keeping in mind that Darnold has the untapped potential to be in that top 8-12 range if he's able to channel the rare plays on a more consistent basis/eliminate the bad plays.  

[ToonforPrez]

3 hours ago, nycdan said:

But....but.....Kevin Costner once got the #6 pick in the draft for three 2nd round picks.  True story!

Don't forget the Legend David Putney who can forget.

 

 

[Bronx]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Im all in

A 6th rounder? I'm sure JD will be all over that!

[Adoni Beast]

4 minutes ago, football guy said:

I think Wilson is a match with this staff, and I think he has the potential to be a fantastic QB. But it's bigger than that. The Jets have to consider how long it may take him to be ready, what accommodations do they have to make,

I’m think that if we draft Wilson or Fields (I hope not) that we need to get Nick Mullens or CJ Beathard in here to start the season. Let them develop, and understand the offense. Then you have a good non-threatening back up who has been in the system for a while.

If we keep Sam, I say same thing we get one of those guys as a backup, but let Darnold start the season.

[flgreen]

I like the idea of Watson coming to the Jets at a reasonable price.  To me that price is #2 , The Hawks #3, and Darnold.

All this "Watson mania" on the board really reminds me of all the "Le'veon Bell mania" that swept the board last year..  "Give him $39M million if he wants it, he'll make the Jets an immediate contender."   LOL

Sure hope this mania turns out better.   

[Cbucco19]

2 hours ago, football guy said:

I really do love him as a prospect. I don't say this simply because we're drafting #2 (I was telling friends the same thing when it looked like we were going 0-16), but I like Zach Wilson the most of any QB prospect since Mahomes --- that includes Trevor Lawrence (who I don't think is going to be as great as everyone says he will be). Now if I were running a team I can't say I'd dare to take that risk, but Wilson has that "it" factor you look for. He makes throws that most QBs can't or won't dare to make. 

 

It's not an insult to say that a QB is raw or needs time to develop. I'm a big believer that QBs need to be developed and feel most QBs bust less because they're not capable and more because they're not developed properly. I pretty much separate QB prospects into these 2 buckets: 

Thoroughbred/Cerebral Precision Passers: There are QBs out there that I believe just know how to play from a young age because they are well trained, have a high football IQ, are good decision-makers, and are going to fulfill their potential regardless what's going on around them... they have high floors and could have high ceilings as well. At their very worst they're game managers, at their very best they're cerebral prerecession passers who know how to beat a defense in a variety of ways. You don't have to alter tailor your offense to these players; they'll come in and execute what you ask, and the player's raw talent will determine how explosive that offense can be. QB prospects that come to mind... 

• Trevor Lawrence 
• Deshaun Watson
• Andrew Luck 
• Matt Ryan 
• Carson Wentz
• Teddy Bridgewater 
• Blaine Gabbert 
• Josh Rosen 
• Matthew Stafford
• Daniel Jones 
• Ben Roethlisberger

Gunslinger/Developmental System Passers; Then, there are unconventional QBs who have rare, explosive characteristics which if harnessed and developed properly, could result in elite production. They're pretty much multi-sport athletes who just have "it". These, in my mind, are developmental/system QBs... but when I say "developmental/system" it's no disrespect to that player. They could easily develop into the games top QB (see Aaron Rodgers), but they need a lot more "hand holding" early on as it pertains to coaching, scheme, game plan, and responsibilities. Once they fully mature they can beat defenses cerebrally, but it will take a lot more coaching than your traditional "thoroughbred". However, they can just as easily fall flat if they're not paired with the right coach/scheme early on. Some QBs that come to mind... 

• Zach Wilson
• Patrick Mahomes 
• Aaron Rodgers 
• Kyler Murray 
• Sam Darnold 
• Josh Allen 
• Cam Newton
• Derek Carr 
• Ryan Tannehill 
• Alex Smith 
• Mitchell Trubisky
• Russell Wilson

 

I'm just thinking back off the top of my head so apologies for the random order, but notice that I'm not segregating them based on who was a bust or whose upside was highest and whatnot. There are QBs on the first list who are elite just as the second. The difference is that the QBs on the second list have lower floors because there's a greater propensity that they'll come out flat if the offense isn't catered to them or if the coaching isn't a match. 

 

 

I think Wilson is a match with this staff, and I think he has the potential to be a fantastic QB. But it's bigger than that. The Jets have to consider how long it may take him to be ready, what accommodations do they have to make, and most importantly, how much higher is his potential than Darnold's and what can they get in return for Darnold vs. the #2 pick. 

To give you an example: lets say the Jets think that Sam Darnold can realistically develop into an 83/100 overall player (top 16 QB), and think that Zach Wilson can be a 92/100 overall player (top 5 QB), what's more valuable to the team?

Option 1

• Sam Darnold (83 overall x3 weighted value) + trade #2 for 2021 1st round pick (+80 overall), 2021 2nd round pick (+70 overall), 2021 4th round pick (+50 overall), 2022 1st round pick (+75 overall), and 2022 3rd round pick (+65 overall)
• 6 players, +589 overall in potential value acquired over 2 years. 

Option 2

• Zach Wilson (92 overall x3 weighted value) + trade Darnold for 2021 2nd round pick (+70 overall), 2021 5th round pick (+40 overall)
• 3 players, +386 overall in potential value acquired over 1 years. 

 

This is a flawed metric of evaluating (the Jets grading/positional weighted value is much more sophisticated), but that's pretty much what the Jets are trying to figure out. If they think that Zach Wilson can be a 96 overall and they estimate that Darnold's ceiling is say a 75 overall player, that changes things. But if they think Darnold can be a top 16 QB, I think they hedge and bypass the opportunity to take a QB with top 5 potential in order to collect a ton of players who have a bunch of potential, while also keeping in mind that Darnold has the untapped potential to be in that top 8-12 range if he's able to channel the rare plays on a more consistent basis/eliminate the bad plays.  

I love Wilson !! To me keeping Sam makes no sense ??‍♂️. He is in the last year of his contract and the GM and coach didn’t draft him. If sam still struggles whatever picks we get will have to be traded to move up for a QB. If I’m Jets I’m taking Wilson and building around him. Trade sam for Late 1st or 2nd and conditional pick . Any chance u can find out how they feel about Wilson  ? I expect their interest to grow after they interview him. To me sam can be decent but will never be great . He doesn’t have the reading defenses in him. 

[football guy]

24 minutes ago, Cbucco19 said:

I love Wilson !! To me keeping Sam makes no sense ??‍♂️. He is in the last year of his contract and the GM and coach didn’t draft him. If sam still struggles whatever picks we get will have to be traded to move up for a QB. If I’m Jets I’m taking Wilson and building around him. Trade sam for Late 1st or 2nd and conditional pick . Any chance u can find out how they feel about Wilson  ? I expect their interest to grow after they interview him. To me sam can be decent but will never be great . He doesn’t have the reading defenses in him. 

The GM didn’t draft him is kind of overplayed at this point. When JD took the job in 2019, Sam was given the 3rd highest grade of a QB he evaluated since becoming a scout (began 2003)...  

1. Andrew Luck
2. Carson Palmer 
3. Sam Darnold 
4. Sam Bradford 
5. Carson Wentz

I have to admit, when you read this it doesn’t inspire much confidence lol. But point I’m making is that had he been the GM in 2018, chances are he was executing the same trade and drafting Darnold. He believes in this QB. Now idk how he ranked guys like Burrow, Herbert. It’s fair to say he could’ve had them higher. It’s also fair to say he could have Lawrence, Wilson higher. But the notion that “he didn’t draft Darnold” doesn’t carry weight... in many ways he took the Jets job because of him.

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, flgreen said:

All this "Watson mania" on the board really reminds me of all the "Le'veon Bell mania" that swept the board last year..  "Give him $39M million if he wants it, he'll make the Jets an immediate contender."   LOL

That was just @JiF. You’re quoting @JiF

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

jesus christ he's just into gingers too

[pointman]

I feel like a coke head needing a little taste. Where is my new Watson rumor?? GIVE ME SOME!!

[neckdemon]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No one thinks the Texans will actually get what they are demanding.  Even the Texans.  

no? you should check out the texans forums. most of them think the texans are getting 4 1sts along with quinnen williams and darnold or equivalent

[section314]

7 minutes ago, football guy said:

The GM didn’t draft him is kind of overplayed at this point. When JD took the job in 2019, Sam was given the 3rd highest grade of a QB he evaluated since becoming a scout (began 2003)...  

1. Andrew Luck
2. Carson Palmer 
3. Sam Darnold 
4. Sam Bradford 
5. Carson Wentz

I have to admit, when you read this it doesn’t inspire much confidence lol. But point I’m making is that had he been the GM in 2018, chances are he was executing the same trade and drafting Darnold. He believes in this QB. Now idk how he ranked guys like Burrow, Herbert. It’s fair to say he could’ve had them higher. It’s also fair to say he could have Lawrence, Wilson higher. But the notion that “he didn’t draft Darnold” doesn’t carry weight... in many ways he took the Jets job because of him.

Interesting what name isn't on that list.?

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

That was just @JiF. You’re quoting @JiF

Contender?  No.  Better for Sammy boy, yes.  Still very wrong. 

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

9 minutes ago, section314 said:

Interesting what name isn't on that list.?

No Watson no Mahomes no Wilson.