Does anyone else want Justin Fields?

[BROOKLYN JET]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

draft a second-tier QB prospect with one of the resulting picks

James Morgan?

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

But I feel like building a winner around an established young QB is easier than building a winner around a rookie with a lot of warts.

Watson is a GREAT fantasy FB QB, he’s a good  NFL QB. Trade too much for him and pay a significant  portion of your cap to him with a very limited roster is setting us up for mediocrity. Trade for Watson and go 6-10 to 8-8 for three years and JD is done. At the end of the day the only safe play is to build a winner. Whatever that takes given available resources and good scouting and good coaching/player development 

[NYJ1]

11 hours ago, GodDamnSnack said:

I feel like every thread is about Zach Wilson, Deshaun Watson or trading down. I think Fields is a terrific player and that he has a real shot at becoming a star in the league, if he's well supported. He seems to have a winner's edge to him and a lot of tools he can rely on. 

 

I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind and I don't want to spend the next several pages arguing on how good of a prospect he is. I'm just wondering if anyone else thinks choosing Fields is a solid move for the franchise at qb, like I do. 

I think Fields SUCKS. Put me as number 1 on the list that would trade for Watson 1st, stick with Sammy 2nd, or draft Zach Wilson or anyone else BESIDES Fields at 2. He's totally overrated and a system QB.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Watson is a GREAT fantasy FB QB, he’s a good  NFL QB. Trade too much for him and pay a significant  portion of your cap to him with a very limited roster is setting us up for mediocrity. Trade for Watson and go 6-10 to 8-8 for three years and JD is done. At the end of the day the only safe play is to build a winner. Whatever that takes given available resources and good scouting and good coaching/player development 

The Texans won their division the two years prior to 2020, largely on the back of Deshaun Watson. Kirk Cousins is a “great fantasy QB.” Watson is a proven winner at every level he’s played. 

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

But I feel like building a winner around an established young QB is easier than building a winner around a rookie with a lot of warts.

Sure it might be easier, but it accelerates the expectations. It also goes against the mantra and mindset JD has continuously stated(no shortcuts) in that he wants to build it from the ground up with the draft and smartly spent FA $$. 

If he parts with tons of assets to acquire Watson the target is immediately on his back 6-10 , 7-9 seasons won't cut it, if the team doesn't win with Watson they are "stuck".  Building with a younger QB IMO gives him more leeway, more assets and sticks with his plan which was set in motion last season. He'll be allowed to have a few average seasons as long as the trend is upwards. 

[Paradis]

4 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

I think Fields SUCKS. Put me as number 1 on the list that would trade for Watson 1st, stick with Sammy 2nd, or draft Zach Wilson or anyone else BESIDES Fields at 2. He's totally overrated and a system QB.

I think Fields is the guy that ripped Clemson a new one... whether that's going to translate to the NFL in year 1... i'm not a OC/coach. But i think he's worth a top 5 if you need him. 

[riggy001]

I like Fields, just not sure he is the best fit for west coast offense we will be running..

[Paradis]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The Texans won their division the two years prior to 2020, largely on the back of Deshaun Watson. Kirk Cousins is a “great fantasy QB.” Watson is a proven winner at every level he’s played. 

ehh, you're romanticizing a little. DeAndre Hopkins bailed Watson out a TON. Also, HOU's defense was much better the two years prior... this was the first year Watson had to be superman and it didn't work. You need to acknowledge that.

[kelly]

2 minutes ago, riggy001 said:

I like Fields, just not sure he is the best fit for west coast offense we will be running..

..he's Not   ?

[T0mShane]

Just now, Paradis said:

ehh, you're romanticizing a little. DeAndre Hopkins bailed Watson out a TON. Also, HOU's defense was much better the two years prior... this was the first year HOU had to be superman and he it didn't work. You need to acknowledge that.

I think Houston needed him to be two Supermans. Maybe three. 

[Jetsfan80]

11 hours ago, predator_05 said:

*raises hand

 

Fields could be just as good as Watson.

I'd rather take fields on a cheap rookie deal and build around him, splash the cash on Allen Robinson and Aaron Jones in FA, draft Kyle Pitts, etc.

maybe it's not as "sexy" as owning an established franchise QB but you're getting better value in the long term. 

This would only be true if Fields stayed on his rookie deal forever.  If Fields is as good as Watson as you say, his 2nd contract will be massive.  Just like Watson's next deal would be here after paying him the $29M per on the remainder of his current deal.

Eventually the bill comes due for a QB.  So the "value" aspect doesn't mean much.  If you end up with a young QB worth paying, either now or down the road, its a win.  

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Sure it might be easier, but it accelerates the expectations. It also goes against the mantra and mindset JD has continuously stated(no shortcuts) in that he wants to build it from the ground up with the draft and smartly spent FA $$. 

If he parts with tons of assets to acquire Watson the target is immediately on his back 6-10 , 7-9 seasons won't cut it, if the team doesn't win with Watson they are "stuck".  Building with a younger QB IMO gives him more leeway, more assets and sticks with his plan which was set in motion last season. He'll be allowed to have a few average seasons as long as the trend is upwards. 

See, though, it won’t matter who’s playing QB if the team goes 6-10, 7-9 the next two years, after Douglas’ first year yielded 2-14. He’ll be fired either way. 

[Paradis]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I think Houston needed him to be two Supermans. Maybe three. 

and we need a baker's dozen

[T0mShane]

Just now, Paradis said:

and we need a baker's dozen

He completed 70% throwing at Brandin Cooks and Keke Coutee. WHO BAILED OUT WHO

[Beerfish]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The Texans won their division the two years prior to 2020, largely on the back of Deshaun Watson. Kirk Cousins is a “great fantasy QB.” Watson is a proven winner at every level he’s played. 

Christian hackenburg was a good high school Qb as well.

Not one of the supporters of getting watson has been able to suitably explain 4 wins last year, in a year where he had good stats.

And then to explain how the jets are going to go playoff bound with a current roster worse than houston and with the high draft picks traded.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

and we need a baker's dozen

Luckily Watson probably has about 13 years left in this league.  So we'd just need to find 1 per year.  Or maybe 4 per year and get that job done in 3 years.

[Paradis]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

He completed 70% throwing at Brandin Cooks and Keke Coutee. WHO BAILED OUT WHO

yea, for 4 wins. 

[Paradis]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Luckily Watson probably has about 13 years left in this league.  So we'd just need to find 1 per year.  

I hope he plays 15. I think he's great. 

[Sonny Werblin]

What if Fields, Wilson or Lance is still sitting there at 27? What if one of them is there are 34? I think those are the scenarios that JD and Saleh have to plan for. Your draft plan cannot be written in stone. You make the most of the draft that actually happens, rather than be married to your preconception as to how the draft will play out.

So, the question is, if a QB falls to them at 27 or 34, do the Jets trade out of it or make the value pick on the most important position on the field. I would imagine it is dependent on the team evaluation of the QB's but it is difficult to imagine all or one of those players will not be viewed as a value pick at 27 or 34.  And before people start going crazy that none of those QBs will fall, c'mon it happens every year.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

yea, for 4 wins. 

The Watson-led offense put up more points on offense in 2020 than they did in 2019, the year they won the division and a playoff game.  More points.  Without Hopkins.

Don't join the 75 IQ crowd on this argument, please.  You're better than that.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Not one of the supporters of getting watson has been able to suitably explain 4 wins last year, in a year where he had good stats.

 

The drama-free and totally functional 2020 Houston Texans football season. 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

yea, for 4 wins. 

You said Hopkins bailed out Watson, but Watson put up better efficiency numbers after Hopkins was gone. 

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Not one of the supporters of getting watson has been able to suitably explain 4 wins last year, in a year where he had good stats.

Actually its been explained to you dozens of times. To simplify it for the smooth brain crowd who keeps trumpeting this tired line, I'll use 5 simple words:  Historically bad defense.  Dysfunctional organization.

You just don't like the argument and refuse to listen.  That's not on us.  

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Christian hackenburg was a good high school Qb as well.

Not one of the supporters of getting watson has been able to suitably explain 4 wins last year, in a year where he had good stats.

And then to explain how the jets are going to go playoff bound with a current roster worse than houston and with the high draft picks traded.

And 2 were vs Jacksonville! 

[T0mShane]

I am not getting this argument that the Texans only won four games with Deshaun Watson, the Jets are worse than the Texans, so we should just draft Justin Fields. What am I missing? 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I am not getting this argument that the Texans only won four games with Deshaun Watson, the Jets are worse than the Texans, so we should just draft Justin Fields. What am I missing? 

The Jets will be awesome because of picks.  Just look at all the amazing talent the Jets have drafted with all their top 10 picks over the last decade.  

@Beerfish, for instance, has been one of Joe Douglas' louder critics, yet values our draft picks a lot more than Deshaun Watson because he expects the Jets to hit on all of them.

Does.  Not.  Compute.

[Paradis]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You said Hopkins bailed out Watson, but Watson put up better efficiency numbers after Hopkins was gone. 

There better be more than a handjob at the end of this rainbow you're having me chase.

[DetroitRed]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You said Hopkins bailed out Watson, but Watson put up better efficiency numbers after Hopkins was gone. 

He gets credit. But  Brandin Cooks has had some of the best production in the NFL before coming to Houston. He wasn’t replaced by a slouch 

[slimjasi]

13 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

And then to explain how the jets are going to go playoff bound with a current roster worse than houston and with the high draft picks traded.

This is such an interesting strawman to me. 

Who says we have to make the playoffs next year? It's not like the draft picks are more likely to help us reach the postseason in 2021 than Watson is. 

We don't have a QB. Hence, we need a QB. Hence, the point is to get a 25 year old franchise QB when we have the chance. Nothing less. Nothing more. 

[Paradis]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I am not getting this argument that the Texans only won four games with Deshaun Watson, the Jets are worse than the Texans, so we should just draft Justin Fields. What am I missing? 

Well, the basic concept of having an NFL roster - for one... there's an argument for Watson, sure.. Those who are closer to dying and those young enough to still be developing delay of gratification - tend to be more polarized on this topic.... but I think there's just as good, maybe even better argument to fleshing out the roster first and skinning that cat elsewhere

But i get it

I'd like Team Watson to grow out of their Stifler phase of pretending like there's no legitimacy in wanting to go the draft route. Doesn't mean they have to subscribe to that philosophy - but for the love of fck, stop with being willfully ignorant. 

[#27TheDominator]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Actually its been explained to you dozens of times. To simplify it for the smooth brain crowd who keeps trumpeting this tired line, I'll use 5 simple words:  Historically bad defense.  Dysfunctional organization.

You just don't like the argument and refuse to listen.  That's not on us.  

This use of the word "historic" is getting out of hand.  They did not even have the worst defense in their division.

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

This use of the word "historic" is getting out of hand.  They did not even have the worst defense in their division.

I think someone posted that of the 40 worst defenses in the last decade (meaning some of the worst defenses ever), they were # 38 or 39.  Something like that.  So, yeah, I'll stand by it. 

Defense keeps getting worse and worse across the league, so it skews the numbers, but the 2020 Texans absolutely helped set that bar even lower than it was before.

[T0mShane]

12 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Well, the basic concept of having an NFL roster - for one... there's an argument for Watson, sure.. Those who are closer to dying and those young enough to still be developing delay of gratification - tend to be more polarized on this topic.... but I think there's just as good, maybe even better argument to fleshing out the roster first and skinning that cat elsewhere

But i get it

I'd like Team Watson to grow out of their Stifler phase of pretending like there's no legitimacy in wanting to go the draft route. Doesn't mean they have to subscribe to that philosophy - but for the love of fck, stop with being willfully ignorant. 

But you and @Beerfish are framing it as either trade for Watson ***OR*** build through the draft, which is the willfully ignorant part. The Jets would not be giving up every draft pick they’ll have over the next three drafts. They’d be giving up two additional mid-to-late first round picks for Watson (presuming the 2 is used on either Fields or Pasty McGee). You’ve done the mock drafts. Who’s the guy you’re drafting at 23 that you wouldn’t sacrifice for ten years of Watson in green? Wyatt Davis? Rondale Moore? If Watson is in the fold and Saleh isn’t an absolute disaster, where are the Jets picking in 2022? 25th? The Jets have a sh*tload of picks outside of the 2, 23, and 2022 first that would comprise the Watson trade comp. You’d be getting Watson *and* you’d still be building through the draft. It’s you Canadians and Canadian-lites that are being obtuse.

[JustInFudge]

36 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

I don’t see at as “sticking with Sam” as much as it is not throwing in your chips with Fields or Wilson, both of whom seem, to me, to be underwhelming prospects. I don’t think you’re giving Sam a chance as much as you’re buying time while accumulating resources, after which you make your move for a QB, presuming Watson doesn’t happen.

Right but again, this sounds literally like the company line of the 2017 line of thinking which is how you ended up with Jamal Adams instead of Mahomes or Watson both "underwhelming" prospects.  If you recall this board was hard set on Watson is a 4th round prospect at best and now those same people want to trade 4 1st round picks for him.

What happens if Sam just happens to flash for a season.  Goes 8-8 and say 3800, 24,12 or something like that?  Then what?  We're are resigning him?  Then we're proper ****ed.   Or he continues to sh*t the bed, Saleh goes 4-12, they fail to find another QB because next years class sucks considerably worse and while the roster is improving, the Jets are still losing.  Now our new HC is behind the 8ball, losing at the same rate as the past Head Coaches, the Jets dont have a QB, question at HC, questions at GM and around around we go!!!

I just see a lot more bad then good, it's the whole, you go find a QB logic and then you look at the Colts and Miami and say, see, its just not that easy.

 

[slimjasi]

23 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Well, the basic concept of having an NFL roster - for one... there's an argument for Watson, sure.. Those who are closer to dying and those young enough to still be developing delay of gratification - tend to be more polarized on this topic.... but I think there's just as good, maybe even better argument to fleshing out the roster first and skinning that cat elsewhere

But i get it

I'd like Team Watson to grow out of their Stifler phase of pretending like there's no legitimacy in wanting to go the draft route. Doesn't mean they have to subscribe to that philosophy - but for the love of fck, stop with being willfully ignorant. 

If Watson is too expensive or simply ends up being unavailable, I have no issue going with the draft route. But then I want a QB taken this year, preferably at #2 overall. 

The argument that drives me insane (one I would label as "willfully ingnorant") is this nonsensical notion that we should invest all of our draft capital and FA money this year in improving the "rest of the team" before trying to find a replacement for Darnold. Our biggest weakness is at QB - we need to be using our resources to upgrade the most important position on the team. Instead, droves of people want to ignore the most important position on the field and focus on everything else, essentially kicking the can down the road on addressing our biggest weakness. It's maddening.