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Does anyone else want Justin Fields?


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7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I think someone posted that of the 40 worst defenses in the last decade (meaning some of the worst defenses ever), they were # 38 or 39.  Something like that.  So, yeah, I'll stand by it. 

Defense keeps getting worse and worse across the league, so it skews the numbers, but the 2020 Texans absolutely helped set that bar even lower than it was before.

"Someone posted"  

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The whole board wanted him after the Sugar Bowl but saw him play hurt in the Championship game and jumped off that bandwagon fast

I feel like every thread is about Zach Wilson, Deshaun Watson or trading down. I think Fields is a terrific player and that he has a real shot at becoming a star in the league, if he's well supported.

He's easily the 2nd best QB in the draft.  Some dumbass team is going to take Zach Baker Manziel ahead of him and it will be just like when the Bears took Trubisky over Watson and Mahomes because he w

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5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

"Someone posted"  

Fine.  Here's some hard data for you.  The Texans allowed 145 rushing 1st downs last season, and 5.2 rushing yards per carry.  Each are most I've seen going back in the year to year data.  I'm only on 2010, however.

Also, their 6.2 yards allowed overall per play is only beaten by 4 other teams so far.  

The only reason the defense wasn't WORSE in a lot of these rankings was because the offense was so good.  Isolating for defense while factoring out the offense, yes, the 2020 Texans defense was historically bad.

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fine.  Here's some hard data for you.  The Texans allowed 145 rushing 1st downs last season, and 5.2 rushing yards per carry.  Each are most I've seen going back in the year to year data.  I'm only on 2014, however.

Also, their 6.2 yards allowed overall per play is only beaten by 3 other teams so far.  

The only reason the defense wasn't WORSE in a lot of these rankings was because the offense was so good.  Isolating for defense while factoring out the offense, yes, the 2020 Texans defense was historically bad.

LOL, wow

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3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

This is kind of where I am at.  I like him, but I think his bust potential is fairly high.  Physically he can be tremendous.  My initial feeling was that once they went with a Shanahan guy that he wasn't going to be the one.  It is interesting to read that win4ever and some others think he'd be a good fit.  WIlson scares me just as much.  He'd probably scare me more, but I haven't watched him as much so not yet. 

I am like a total Wilson fan boy. I have watched all of his game tapes and I think it will be shocking if he is not elite at the NFL level. People keep pointing  to his injuries but he will have such a thorough medical it won't be an issue. He just jumps out at you. Even Greg Cossell seems to really like him and he is super tough on QBs.

Just my opinion, but I think with an entirely new coaching staff the best way to build this team is with a new QB under a rookie contract, and Wilson is pefect for the Shanahan offense and wants to play in it. Seems like a perfect storm to me.

Watson just does not seem like a JD move to me. He values the draft so much and the opportunity cost is huge. It will be retconning his entire philosophy of building a team. I also think, as good as Watson is, that Saleh would prefer the young guy he can develop, Remember he saw first hand what RW under a rookie contract could do.

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19 minutes ago, JiF said:

Right but again, this sounds literally like the company line of the 2017 line of thinking which is how you ended up with Jamal Adams instead of Mahomes or Watson both "underwhelming" prospects.  If you recall this board was hard set on Watson is a 4th round prospect at best and now those same people want to trade 4 1st round picks for him.

So, on this, and I ask you because I know you were on the Watson/Mahomes train early, how would you rank Fields and Wilson as prospects vs Mahomes and Watson as prospects? 

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13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fine.  Here's some hard data for you.  The Texans allowed 145 rushing 1st downs last season, and 5.2 rushing yards per carry.  Each are most I've seen going back in the year to year data.  I'm only on 2010, however.

Also, their 6.2 yards allowed overall per play is only beaten by 4 other teams so far.  

The only reason the defense wasn't WORSE in a lot of these rankings was because the offense was so good.  Isolating for defense while factoring out the offense, yes, the 2020 Texans defense was historically bad.

Wow, hard to watch @#27TheDominator get pummeled like this. I had to avert my eyes. Sad. Sad.

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the guy is just bigger stronger and faster than everyone so he “held” the ball to let plays develop vs panicking for a check down. Somehow he still completed 70% of his passes and was ranked higher than Lawrence by PFF. What exactly is the issue? 

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25 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

remake bingo GIF

People always bring up the risk of Fields or Wilson busting but keep ignoring the risk of passing on Fields or Wilson and watching one or both of them to turn into studs in another uniform. Meanwhile, the odds of Darnold suddenly becoming good just aren't high. We need a QB, so why not take a shot on one of these guys? Especially with the underwhelming impression people have of next year's QB class? Especially since we have the #2 overall pick and who knows when the hell we will be picking this high again? 

I think it's fair to say the likelihood of Sam remaining a bust is high.

I think it's fair to say that the likelihood of picking in the top five next year, is low. 

I'm with you on both of those, even considering I got that Dar-anon shaman, saiyan blood pumping through my veins.

But I think the heart of it, for me at least, is neither of those two statements have anything to do with the evaluation of Wilson or Fields. I hate the idea of forcing a position because of need over an independent evaluation of the prospect. 

At some point, if it's move on from Sam by any means, then how about we sign a veteran? Why is this a binary choice between Stormin' Mormon Schwarzkopf and Darnold 2.0 Ohio State Drift

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7 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

No pocket awareness, his decision making when it comes to running is abysmal, can't throw to the side line without balls sailing on him, very simplistic system and shows little to no ability to go through progressions.

Avoid. Interception machine in the NFL.

 

After seeing how josh allen was molded, ill take my chances. Literally everyone sh*tted on him and then Sam was worst lol

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19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fine.  Here's some hard data for you.  The Texans allowed 145 rushing 1st downs last season, and 5.2 rushing yards per carry.  Each are most I've seen going back in the year to year data.  I'm only on 2010, however.

Also, their 6.2 yards allowed overall per play is only beaten by 4 other teams so far.  

The only reason the defense wasn't WORSE in a lot of these rankings was because the offense was so good.  Isolating for defense while factoring out the offense, yes, the 2020 Texans defense was historically bad.

OOOOOOH th old rushing first downs allowed!  That is always the first stat that jumps out at you when rating defenses.  Their run D was bad.  Since nobody runs any more that really doesn't mean much.  They were 27th in points allowed and 30th in yards.  Their historic 6.2 yards per play allowed was only beaten by 4 teams so far, but it was better than the Lions and Jaguars in 2020.  It tied the Falcons.  I didn't bother searching beyond  2018 but that year the Raiders were worse too.  HISTORIC!   

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3 minutes ago, Team archer said:

After seeing how josh allen was molded, ill take my chances. Literally everyone sh*tted on him and then Sam was worst lol

Josh Allen's historic, unprecedented career turnaround offers only one lesson to QB prognostication:  Athleticism matters more than it ever has.

Otherwise, there's nothing else to learn from that.  Josh Allen should not inform future QB decisions.  If a QB is turnover prone and inaccurate, he has to be an elite athlete with a Michael Jordan-esque desire to improve to be worth drafting.  

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4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

OOOOOOH th old rushing first downs allowed!  That is always the first stat that jumps out at you when rating defenses.  Their run D was bad.  Since nobody runs any more that really doesn't mean much.  They were 27th in points allowed and 30th in yards.  Their historic 6.2 yards per play allowed was only beaten by 4 teams so far, but it was better than the Lions and Jaguars in 2020.  It tied the Falcons.  I didn't bother searching beyond  2018 but that year the Raiders were worse too.  HISTORIC!   

The run defense number is meaningful because only 3 of Houston's losses last year were by more than one possession.  Teams weren't just racking up rushing yards on them because they were ahead. 

Meanwhile, you ignored the overall yards per play metric, and the part about the Texans offense being so good was the only thing preventing them from being worse in the other defensive categories.  

Sometimes you're just a contrarian to be a contrarian.  Its boring.  

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4 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I think it's fair to say the likelihood of Sam remaining a bust is high.

I think it's fair to say that the likelihood of picking in the top five next year, is low. 

I'm with you on both of those, even considering I got that Dar-anon shaman, saiyan blood pumping through my veins.

But I think the heart of it, for me at least, is neither of those two statements have anything to do with the evaluation of Wilson or Fields. I hate the idea of forcing a position because of need over an independent evaluation of the prospect. 

At some point, if it's move on from Sam by any means, then how about we sign a veteran? Why is this a binary choice between Stormin' Mormon Schwarzkopf and Darnold 2.0 Ohio State Drift

This is fair. 

If the Jets really don't like any of the QBs in this draft, then bring in a veteran. I could live with that. 

I happen to like a couple of these QBs though, so I really want the Jets to scout these guys carefully. I just don't like the "let's bury our heads in the sand" attitude about getting a QB because we haven't had success in the past. That's never going to work. 

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

The next labrum wilson tears will be his third 

I get that people like him but the small, often injured mid major qb who has played no one legit isn't exactly a safe bet 

I get your injury concern but everything about his game says it will translate really well at the next level. His arm talent, processing info, able to throw accurately and into small windows. I would be much more concerned about Mac Jones than Wilson. Jones only had 44 tight window throws the entire year! That's historically easy for a good QB - that's much more concerning to me.

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1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

This is fair. 

If the Jets really don't like any of the QBs in this draft, then bring in a veteran. I could live with that. 

I happen to like a couple of these QBs though, so I really want the Jets to scout these guys carefully. I just don't like the "let's bury our heads in the sand" attitude about getting a QB because we haven't had success in the past. That's never going to work. 

I respect that view. 

And of course I want the Jets to carefully scout this year's prospects.

Even the dudes we don't often mention; Lance, Jones, Trask, and Mond (senior bowl kid?).

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

The Texans won their division the two years prior to 2020, largely on the back of Deshaun Watson. Kirk Cousins is a “great fantasy QB.” Watson is a proven winner at every level he’s played. 

If true, why did the Texans go 4-12 in such a terrible division with the same Watson?

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

So, on this, and I ask you because I know you were on the Watson/Mahomes train early, how would you rank Fields and Wilson as prospects vs Mahomes and Watson as prospects? 

I actually had to be convinced on Mahomes.  I was very nervous about him potentially wanting to be a pitcher like his pops, the system and conference.  He was a hard evolution also because so much was off script.  It took watching almost every single snap to see that he just had unteachable magic in him that ultimately had me convinced and honestly, the more and more you look at the prospects lately who are having success, that's what is about.  Not the traditional old school way dying breed we see exiting the league, Brady being the anomaly.  Its the kids that have sh*t you cant teach matched with the right system who are the future of the league; Watson, Mahomes, Jackson, Allen, Murray, Herbert.  And you see that influence as well with some of the vets who are playing really well later in their careers Rodgers, Tannehill, Wilson.  

I say all that to say, Fields fits that mold. He's an all world athlete with an Ivy league brain playing QB ie; stuff you cant teach.  He was the #2 prospect only behind Lawrence basically since his sophomore year of High School (#1 duel threat).  When he got his chance in college, he did not disappoint.  There is some very weird smear sh*t going on with him that I dont quite get.  The same sh*t happened to Watson.  Dude did everything and then some with that epic last second win vs. Bama and suddenly you had guys screaming he wasnt draft-able (wont tag Bit but yeah, he said that).  Not sure why but the same thing is happening now again with Fields.   

I havent watched nearly as much of Wilson and I'm not ready to give a definitive statement.  I've seen 3 games at full now, Bosie St., Coastal Carolina and UCF.  2 of the 3, he was lights out but it was easy, like not dirt on the jersey, easy.  In the driver seat, no adversity, cruise control. The other game, not so much and I saw a very different QB but similar to Fields, I'm not going to knock him for 1 bad performance.   So that said, I plan on looking at some other snap by snap film out there but there is some egregious stuff I really dont like that scares the sh*t out of me ie; pocket presence and his tendency to drift, how far away he plays for the LOS, his 1 game vs. a pass rush, etc.  I currently think it's absolutely nuts to think he's worthy of #2 overall but that's subject to change. 

To answer your question more directly, no.  I dont like Wilson any where near as much as I liked Watson/Mahomes.  But if I'm being honest with myself, I needed a lot less convincing on Fields then I did Mahomes at this point.  However, once you saw what Mahomes could do, no, I dont think Fields has that type of voodoo magic sh*t in his game.  The comparison I make of Fields is a taller more athletic Russell Wilson.

 

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19 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

If true, why did the Texans go 4-12 in such a terrible division with the same Watson?

I'm just gonna start handing out thumbs down to every poster who repeats this same tired argument that has been demonstrated to be laughably bad time and again.  It's lazy and dumb.  

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54 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I am like a total Wilson fan boy. I have watched all of his game tapes and I think it will be shocking if he is not elite at the NFL level. People keep pointing  to his injuries but he will have such a thorough medical it won't be an issue. He just jumps out at you. Even Greg Cossell seems to really like him and he is super tough on QBs.

Just my opinion, but I think with an entirely new coaching staff the best way to build this team is with a new QB under a rookie contract, and Wilson is pefect for the Shanahan offense and wants to play in it. Seems like a perfect storm to me.

Watson just does not seem like a JD move to me. He values the draft so much and the opportunity cost is huge. It will be retconning his entire philosophy of building a team. I also think, as good as Watson is, that Saleh would prefer the young guy he can develop, Remember he saw first hand what RW under a rookie contract could do.

I think it's extremely hard to watch Wilson throw a football and not be impressed. 

Honest question. If his Pro Day comes up and he weighs 210. His Height is 6' or 6'1 only and he has 8 inch hands do you still feel the same way? In terms of the injuries I guess we have to find some data on this but it scares me that he had BOTH labrums repaired and so young. These injuries were due to be tackled on landing on his shoulders. What is going to happen when he has men that outweigh him by a 100 pounds hit him that same way a 100 times a year? He got injured at 19 I believe. What happens when you get old and its easier to get injured. 

Saying this as a fan of that beautiful release of his. 

zach-wilson-receives-character-concerns-label-as.thumb.jpg.de7691daa18585518ba69334eb705376.jpg

 

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Speaking of release's: I find myself wanting to love Fields and its gotten to the point that I see nothing but that huge hitch in his release. 

Does this bother anyone else? It's like watching Javier Baez swing a bat. 

justin-fields-explains-ohio-state-huddle

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Agree with OP.

Personally don't understand why Wilson is even an option at 2 or Darnold returning as another option. 

I am firmly in the trade for Watson camp and drafting Fields as the fall back option. If that is the what JD is planning then I'm very excited for 2021.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Watson-led offense put up more points on offense in 2020 than they did in 2019, the year they won the division and a playoff game.  More points.  Without Hopkins.

I think Deshaun Watson proved more last year than any year in the NFL. Many of his statistics improved without Hopkins. We all viewed him as a Franchise QB but I think he really proved he is a top 5 guy and he could do it without any help. 

How bad is going to suck for Wilson or Fields to go there and be compared to him? They are screwed. They are going to be asked to throw to Cooks, Chad Hansen and David Johnson and put up 400 points on offense. Texans might go 0-16 next year. 

If the Jets were to get Deshaun we're winning 10 games. Dolphins might win 13 with him. Guys like Mims or Preston Williams become stars with him. 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The run defense number is meaningful because only 3 of Houston's losses last year were by more than one possession.  Teams weren't just racking up rushing yards on them because they were ahead. 

Meanwhile, you ignored the overall yards per play metric, and the part about the Texans offense being so good was the only thing preventing them from being worse in the other defensive categories.  

Sometimes you're just a contrarian to be a contrarian.  Its boring.  

Didn't I?

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

OOOOOOH th old rushing first downs allowed!  That is always the first stat that jumps out at you when rating defenses.  Their run D was bad.  Since nobody runs any more that really doesn't mean much.  They were 27th in points allowed and 30th in yards.  Their historic 6.2 yards per play allowed was only beaten by 4 teams so far, but it was better than the Lions and Jaguars in 2020.  It tied the Falcons.  I didn't bother searching beyond  2018 but that year the Raiders were worse too.  HISTORIC!   

Tied for 4th worst in the last three years.  HISTORIC.  I admit it is boring.  I am bored.  I am also tired of hearing franchise, generational, or historic for things that are merely good, very good or terrible. 

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19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm just gonna start handing out thumbs down to every poster who repeats this same tired argument that has been demonstrated to be laughably bad time and again.  It's lazy and dumb.  

Ok, knock yourself out. But I watch every Texans game, do you? Watson is good, not great. His stats are great, his play is not. He had 4 wins, 2 were against Jacksonville, 1 against colts first game of season. What I find laughable and lazy is looking at fantasy football stats and declaring a player elite based on that, but too each his own. 

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2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Ok, knock yourself out. But I watch every Texans game, do you? Watson is good, not great. His stats are great, his play is not. He had 4 wins, 2 were against Jacksonville, 1 against colts first game of season. What I find laughable and lazy is looking at fantasy football stats and declaring a player elite based on that, but too each his own. 

You have a point he didn't beat any playoff teams but I know who did..LOL

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3 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Ok, knock yourself out. But I watch every Texans game, do you? Watson is good, not great. His stats are great, his play is not. He had 4 wins, 2 were against Jacksonville, 1 against colts first game of season. What I find laughable and lazy is looking at fantasy football stats and declaring a player elite based on that, but too each his own. 

And made the playoffs twice in previous years with a playoff win 

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43 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm just gonna start handing out thumbs down to every poster who repeats this same tired argument that has been demonstrated to be laughably bad time and again.  It's lazy and dumb.  

Guess it’s lazy to point out obvious facts

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29 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

I think Deshaun Watson proved more last year than any year in the NFL. Many of his statistics improved without Hopkins. We all viewed him as a Franchise QB but I think he really proved he is a top 5 guy and he could do it without any help. 

How bad is going to suck for Wilson or Fields to go there and be compared to him? They are screwed. They are going to be asked to throw to Cooks, Chad Hansen and David Johnson and put up 400 points on offense. Texans might go 0-16 next year. 

If the Jets were to get Deshaun we're winning 10 games. Dolphins might win 13 with him. Guys like Mims or Preston Williams become stars with him. 

His stats improved because he was in garbage time in a lot of games throwing to Fuller against preven umbrella defenses

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55 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

I think it's extremely hard to watch Wilson throw a football and not be impressed. 

Honest question. If his Pro Day comes up and he weighs 210. His Height is 6' or 6'1 only and he has 8 inch hands do you still feel the same way? In terms of the injuries I guess we have to find some data on this but it scares me that he had BOTH labrums repaired and so young. These injuries were due to be tackled on landing on his shoulders. What is going to happen when he has men that outweigh him by a 100 pounds hit him that same way a 100 times a year? He got injured at 19 I believe. What happens when you get old and its easier to get injured. 

Saying this as a fan of that beautiful release of his. 

zach-wilson-receives-character-concerns-label-as.thumb.jpg.de7691daa18585518ba69334eb705376.jpg

 

 

51 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

Speaking of release's: I find myself wanting to love Fields and its gotten to the point that I see nothing but that huge hitch in his release. 

Does this bother anyone else? It's like watching Javier Baez swing a bat. 

justin-fields-explains-ohio-state-huddle

look at Kiper's Mock, look at McShay's mock, neither man has a QB going 2 either by trade or whatever

Jets fans have not gotten over the loss of Trevor, and are rebounding hard in every direction 

Wilson and Fields are interesting prospects... if they make it to 23

the internet has wildly overrated both men based on need

they are each flawed, and blatant reaches at 2 overall, and JD isn't going to reach so it's not really worth everyone's brainpower debating it 

JD is going to take value at the top of the draft, as he should. It might be Smith, Chase or Sewell. It might be that trade down everyone wants and then they take the QB. 

people talk crap about Mac but Quinnen at 3 was in fact the right move. they didn't need to reach for Josh Allen DE or whatever. The draft at the top end offers you players and you take what's offered

reaching at 2 for either of these players is a bad idea, borne out of desperation 

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