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1 minute ago, Ghost420 said:

If we do nothing else at all in free agency Scherff or Thuney need to be a Jet

i'm hopin' we can sign thuney   😎

 

 

cheers ~ ~ 

:beer:

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7 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Osemele is the number 1 ranked free agent guard. Should the Jets consider signing him?

Not even sure he's want to come back to the Jets anyway because of the way he was treated while injured.  The whole unapproved surgery deal.  Not sure if he blames Douglas or Gase on that one.

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44 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Hopefully JD learned a lesson.

Shopping in the bargain bin for OL isn't a good idea.

Draft them and only offer YOLO FA contracts when you have the $$$ and you are desperate to protect a FQB during seasons in which your team is a playoff contender.

We only have one of those three things right now.

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2 minutes ago, Happy Clouds said:

I’m surprised Elflein’s numbers are so bad. I thought he played pretty well once he came to the Jets.

He was a good run blocker but is simply not a good pass blocker and likely doesnt fit in a zone scheme.  I think he would be a fine backup but personally id rather keep GVR as a "swing guard".

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10 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Draft them and only offer YOLO FA contracts when you have the $$$ and you are desperate to protect a FQB during seasons in which your team is a playoff contender.

We only have one of those three things right now.

We have two of those things (money and need to protect a FQB) - with Watson we have all 3.

And if you draft a Rookie - you HAVE to give him every chance you can to succeed.  Not supporting him with a strong offensive is exactly why we're hare with Sam.  It would be insane to go cheap on the OL again if you draft a rookie or bring in Watson.

Only way you don't HAVE to do that is if you keep Sam - and that's simply not happening.

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15 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I'd rather draft a Center after Round 1 and move McGovern to OG.

With ya. , although sounds like McGovern will thrive at C in the new blocking scheme. Either way, need to draft a starter   for the O line in the draft.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Hopefully JD learned a lesson.

Shopping in the bargain bin for OL isn't a good idea.

Again, one year contracts, see who is worth it in a year you know you are not competing and uncertainty of the salary cap thanks to COVID.  We found three guys (2 in F/A one picked up later in the year) - two will be a starters (McGovern & Elflein), one will be great depth (Fant).  Possibly even Lewis will be depth as well.  I am sure we will sign someone in F/A and draft another line man as well.  We also drafted our long-term LT (hopefully) in Becton, and might possibly have another depth/starter in Clark.  Won't know until he plays.

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1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

We traded a 5th round pick to Oakland for him..

Didn't he also sue the Jets?  I can't believe that this is a serious thread.  

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1 minute ago, CanadaSteve said:

Again, one year contracts, see who is worth it in a year you know you are not competing and uncertainty of the salary cap thanks to COVID.  We found three guys (2 in F/A one picked up later in the year) - two will be a starters (McGovern & Elflein), one will be great depth (Fant).  Possibly even Lewis will be depth as well.  I am sure we will sign someone in F/A and draft another line man as well.  We also drafted our long-term LT (hopefully) in Becton, and might possibly have another depth/starter in Clark.  Won't know until he plays.

One year contracts or not - you have to protect your QB and JD failed miserably at that last year.  There is really no other way to look at it.   it's easy to sign garbage and save money - anyone can do that.

He assembled one of the worst OL's in the league last year.  He absolutely has to do better.  

If you think he did a good job with the OL last year that's fine but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

We have two of those things (money and need to protect a FQB) - with Watson we have all 3.

And if you draft a Rookie - you HAVE to give him every chance you can to succeed.  Not supporting him with a strong offensive is exactly why we're hare with Sam.  It would be insane to go cheap on the OL again if you draft a rookie or bring in Watson.

Only way you don't HAVE to do that is if you keep Sam - and that's simply not happening.

We have money.  We don't have a FQB (yet).  We're not a playoff contender (yet).

If we trade for Watson then things change.  If we stick with Sam or use a lottery ticket at #2 on a rookie QB then I still don't think we should be using high-end money on an OLineman.  JMHO.

We drafted Nick Mangold very late in the 1st and rode him for a decade from Day 1.  I'm perfectly fine with drafting a rookie Center/OG and giving him a shot in Camp to earn the starting spot, nudging McGovern over to OG.  If that rookie isn't ready then McGovern stays at Center for a bit.

The Jets need upgrades on the interior OL but they're not desperate right now in my opinion.  Last March was spent throwing money at hold-the-fort guys like McGovern, extending Lewis, signing GVR and Josh Andrews.  I don't want to replace guys we spent FA money on with other guys we spend FA money on..... I'd prefer to Draft someone.  Centers and OGs look pretty good outside Round 1.

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2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

We have money.  We don't have a FQB (yet).  We're not a playoff contender (yet).

If we trade for Watson then things change.  If we stick with Sam or use a lottery ticket at #2 on a rookie QB then I still don't think we should be using high-end money on an OLineman.  JMHO.

We drafted Nick Mangold very late in the 1st and rode him for a decade from Day 1.  I'm perfectly fine with drafting a rookie Center/OG and giving him a shot in Camp to earn the starting spot, nudging McGovern over to OG.  If that rookie isn't ready then McGovern stays at Center for a bit.

The Jets need upgrades on the interior OL but they're not desperate right now in my opinion.  Last March was spent throwing money at hold-the-fort guys like McGovern, extending Lewis, signing GVR and Josh Andrews.  I don't want to replace guys with spent FA money on with other guys we spend FA money on..... I'd prefer to Draft someone.  Centers and OGs look pretty good outside Round 1.

I don't disagree with this - except I do think they are desperate.  Again, if we draft a QB at 2 (which I believe is the most likely outcome) we need to do everything we can to develop him - give him all the tools he needs to settle in and learn the position.  You can do with less once he's developed.

We can not half-ass the OL.  Sure draft another at 23 or 34 - and draft a another G/C with one of the 3rd.   I would be totally fine with that approach instead of FA spending.  

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8 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

We have money.  We don't have a FQB (yet).  We're not a playoff contender (yet).

If we trade for Watson then things change.  If we stick with Sam or use a lottery ticket at #2 on a rookie QB then I still don't think we should be using high-end money on an OLineman.  JMHO.

We drafted Nick Mangold very late in the 1st and rode him for a decade from Day 1.  I'm perfectly fine with drafting a rookie Center/OG and giving him a shot in Camp to earn the starting spot, nudging McGovern over to OG.  If that rookie isn't ready then McGovern stays at Center for a bit.

The Jets need upgrades on the interior OL but they're not desperate right now in my opinion.  Last March was spent throwing money at hold-the-fort guys like McGovern, extending Lewis, signing GVR and Josh Andrews.  I don't want to replace guys with spent FA money on with other guys we spend FA money on..... I'd prefer to Draft someone.  Centers and OGs look pretty good outside Round 1.

The possibility to have Becton/Thuney/Sewell a trio ?? What is a lot of money for you ?? If they spend 35millions total for a WR and OL in free agency that’s perfect for me 

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3 minutes ago, jetsQuebec said:

The possibility to have Becton/Thuney/Sewell a trio ?? What is a lot of money for you ?? If they spend 35millions total for a WR and OL in free agency that’s perfect for me 

Sure, but then we don't have a capable QB.  

We need a QB!

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2 hours ago, Ghost420 said:

If we do nothing else at all in free agency Scherff or Thuney need to be a Jet

I agree with this!  I would also look at the kid from Tennessee in the draft and line him up next to Becton.

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2 hours ago, jetsQuebec said:

The possibility to have Becton/Thuney/Sewell a trio ?? What is a lot of money for you ?? If they spend 35millions total for a WR and OL in free agency that’s perfect for me 

That's like football p0rn right there, but I have to constantly remind myself this team continues to have multiple needs at key spots.  And, not just figuring out the QB position, getting a true WR1 and figuring out who the RB1 would be..... but the two most impactful positions on defense, Edge rusher and CB1 are big question marks in my opinion.

As much as I'd love to get the best OG in free agency and the best OT in the Draft I can't really justify using our most premium resources on them right now.

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1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

That's like football p0rn right there, but I have to constantly remind myself this team continues to have multiple needs a key spots.  And, not just figuring out the QB position, getting a true WR1 and figuring out who the RB1 would be..... but the two most impactful positions on defense, Edge rusher and CB1 are big question marks in my opinion.

As much as I'd love to get the best OG in free agency and the best OT in the Draft I can't really justify using our most premium resources on them right now.

Totally agree with you about the Edge rusher, we need one since nearly a decade. I don’t think CB is a big need right now, we need good depth like RB position. In 2020, I want #1 edge, WR1, top OL unit in the league. With good coaching Darnold can improve a lot I think, he wasn’t 3 overall for nothing

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9 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

That's like football p0rn right there, but I have to constantly remind myself this team continues to have multiple needs at key spots.  And, not just figuring out the QB position, getting a true WR1 and figuring out who the RB1 would be..... but the two most impactful positions on defense, Edge rusher and CB1 are big question marks in my opinion.

As much as I'd love to get the best OG in free agency and the best OT in the Draft I can't really justify using our most premium resources on them right now.

The interior of the line has been the biggest need for years. When was the last significant signing/draft pick we made at guard? 

That group was left to rot for over a decade. It should be the first area we address. Douglas has done a pretty mediocre job, he got Becton but he couldn't miss given Wirfs was on the board. The free agents were all trash, bargain basement garbage. He cannot do that again. With Becton on board the Jets have the chance to turn O-line into a real strength, we have the most difficult piece. I don't think you can ever really invest too much in it. If you have an elite line you will win games.

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13 hours ago, Butterfield said:

Id rather get Linsley and move McGovern to guard.  

Never mind that centers come with a few million dollars per year savings over equivalent guards. Not overtly the reason to choose one over the other, but it’s a nice bonus. It might matter to a GM who chose $9MM George Fant over $13MM Jack Conklin (:bag:) — a move that may ultimately have a butterfly-effect cost of the #2 overall pick if there’s no transaction for Watson and then Douglas can’t get a good value trade-down offer.

 

I do have to say, that for someone who allegedly values & is into OL investment so much, Douglas’s OL moves in FA leave very much to be desired, and he’s thus far worse than OL-ignorant Maccagnan in terms of shopping for veterans for his line: Kalil, McGovern, Fant, Van Roten, and re-signing Lewis is nothing to be proud of. Trading a 2020 7th round pick to pick up Lewis’s remaining rookie contract for $2MM in 2019 is still his crowning achievement in acquiring veteran OLmen. Yecch. Maccagnan at least hit on Carpenter until we went with more zone blocking, and Beachum wasn’t awesome nor as good as he was with Pittsburgh, but at $8MM/yr he was passable as a starting LT for 3 years. I do think McGovern will have a bounce-back to form season in 2021, but it’s a feeling not an accomplishment yet; for all I know he’ll go on IR in August. 

If Douglas wanted to save a couple bucks and simultaneously have more LT versatility than he felt Conklin brought to the table, in case a rookie wasn’t ready for the spotlight, he’d have been better off with just re-signing Beachum. He’s a good locker room guy who started all 16 games last year for the veteran minimum as Arizona’s RT, which compares favorably  to inking Fant at a rate of $9MM per. As good or better player, with far more proven success, at just an $888K cap hit. Honestly with 5 upcoming cuts/FAs on the OL (the only ones under contract were Winters, who was cut, and Edoga), and Gase’s previous positive remarks about being able to rely on him (putting aside the automatic-loss Falk games and the week 17 freebie vs Buffalo, the truth is with Beachum + Darnold the Jets were 6-3 in 2019, and nominally 7-3 if including a narrow win vs Buffalo’s backups & reserves), I figured Beachum was a heavy favorite to get re-signed. Instead Lewis got a 3X raise and Fant - a swing / backup who lost a competition with Ifedi for the starting RT job in Seattle - was paid like a proven, reliable starter. Even his meh season was better than I thought he’d be, but nowhere near as good to justify his 10-fold expense over Beachum nor the mere $4MM/yr savings over the 26 year-old (and now 2X) 1st team all-pro Conklin, who was expected/linked to the OL-desperate Jets for the 1-2 weeks prior to Douglas passing on him without an offer.

I’m not seeing how Fant + Lewis for $9MM and $6MM respectively = so noticeably better than Beachum + Ifedi for $888K each. Ifedi sucked in 2019, yet Fant still couldn’t supplant him as Seattle’s starter. Ifedi’s more suited to RG anyway at his size with his relative inability of handling edge rushers. 

I’m thrilled with his selection of Becton, but in all honesty was there an OT he could have feasibly drafted at #11 that wouldn’t have looked like a good/great pick? 

In JD’s favor, over his predecessor, it doesn’t require a stretch of the imagination to see Maccagnan in 2020 instead taking one of the corners who looked like crap as rookies, or the DT who looked no better, given his allergy to OL early in the draft (never mind at a top 10-ish overall selection, as he’d recently just made what was, for him, a big OL draft investment: overall pick #92 used on Chuma Edoga).

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