Raiders looking to trade Derek Carr so they can pursue Watson???

[ScarletKnight89]

50 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

i am sure the jets would move on from Darnold for Watson as well lol....Watson is a top 3-5 QB in football on a reasonable deal. That isnt the argument anyone is making.

There are people on this board making an argument to stick with Darnold next year and not go after Watson.

[Savage69]

1 minute ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

There are people on this board making an argument to stick with Darnold next year and not go after Watson.

It all depends on the cost for me for others no cost seems to be too great..

[Savage69]

1 hour ago, k-met57 said:

i am sure the jets would move on from Darnold for Watson as well lol....Watson is a top 3-5 QB in football on a reasonable deal. That isnt the argument anyone is making.

In the first year yes but I think a team much like KC had is the ideal way for a new QB to prosper.. In 2009 the Jets had a solid team around a rookie QB who had 12 td's and 20 picks and they made the Championship game.. On a talent poor team could Watson do that ?? Could Mahomes?? I think not and Watson's 4-12 season proved that..

[k-met57]

5 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

In the first year yes but I think a team much like KC had is the ideal way for a new QB to prosper.. In 2009 the Jets had a solid team around a rookie QB who had 12 td's and 20 picks and they made the Championship game.. On a talent poor team could Watson do that that?? Could Mahomes?? I think not and Watson's 4-12 season proved that..

i think its cheaper because the texans already paid him the upfront money. i could be wrong...not sure.

[k-met57]

28 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

There are people on this board making an argument to stick with Darnold next year and not go after Watson.

yes because Watson is prohibitively expensive. no one in their right mind would keep Darnold over Watson considering the high end of Darnold is Watson.

[ScarletKnight89]

48 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

yes because Watson is prohibitively expensive. no one in their right mind would keep Darnold over Watson considering the high end of Darnold is Watson.

Ok fair enough. 

I feel like the expense is worth it because I don't see Darnold as capable of being anything close to what Watson is. Like you said he's a top 3-5 QB in the game. The high end of Sam Darnold to me is an average QB at best. But that's just my opinion. 

[k-met57]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Ok fair enough. 

I feel like the expense is worth it because I don't see Darnold as capable of being anything close to what Watson is. Like you said he's a top 3-5 QB in the game. The high end of Sam Darnold to me is an average QB at best. But that's just my opinion. 

Yep agree to disagree 

[joewilly12]

3 hours ago, kelly said:

[Maxman]

20 hours ago, doitny said:

LMAO

cant believe you think Darnold is better than Carr with a straight face. and Austin is better than Waller? i keep looking back at your post to see if i missed a laugh or a wink. 

Carr has a QB rate of over 100 last 2 seasons. comp % around 68 last 3 seasons. avgs under 2 INT a game for his career.

Darnold sucks. and if he goes to Houston and sucks a 4th year then they got to cut him. Carr doesnt suck.

the wild card here is Gruden. he runs the Raiders. he cant have another 8-8 season. if he gets the Texans on the phone he wont hang up until he gets a deal. he will give them whatever draft picks they want. make the playoffs for a few years, maybe win a SB and then retire.

you guys make that 2OA pick worth more than it is. only if Houston LOVES  a QB this year than its worth something. 

how do NE, NO, GB, SEA make the playoffs for decades? yeah they have great QBs but you need talent around them right? yet they find them with there late rd picks EVERY YEAR. we can do the same

I never said Sam was better than Carr.  The Jets trade comp with the # 2 is higher.  The Texans aren't going to trade for Sam. So the real point is Three # 1's from the Jets including the # 2 overall this year will be the highest offer that the Texans get.

Carr isn't young and he is so-so, so his trade value isn't great. I really just wanted to use so three times in a row.

Besides selling a Carr brother to the fans in Houston should go over well lol.

[Maxman]

12 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

You didn't even have to break a sweat to come up with that.

 

No, it just comes natural haha.

[doitny]

20 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

Agree on your last point, which is why the handwringing over one 1st rounder too much for Watson makes me eyeroll more than a little. That player can bust, can get regularly injured, etc. and in any event is unlikely to have a Watson-like impact on the team where we still stuck without him but are a playoff team/contender with him. FFS from the talk here you’d think every championship/playoff team was built on little more than their 1st round picks. 

I'm glad someone agrees with that point.

here's another one. the Chiefs have  4 1st rd picks on there roster and there in the SB. 3 where drafted by them.

the Jets have 6 1st rd picks 5 if you don't count Flacco. 3 where drafted by us. and we were 2-14 and the Chiefs are in the SB.

TB has 8, 7 if you don't count backup QB Gabbert. 3 were drafted by TB

i just fear in 5 years were going to look back at this and say..

1. No Watson...

2. No QB,... the whole Darnold or draft a QB thing didn't work out for the 10,000 time

3. out of those 4 draft picks they wanted... at least 1 maybe 2 are busts. the other 2 are nice but not game changing players. 

oh and no QW. that untouchable player. if 1-3 happens then QW who will be a FA in 3 years might just leave for a better team. will we even try to sign him if were in ANOTHER rebuild? maybe JD or most likely a different GM can trade QW a year before and get one of those shiny #1 draft picks we all love. yeah!!!

i feel like were on that game show where we just won a nice car. its 3 years old but not much mileage on it. otherwise in mint condition. and were going to risk it for what's behind door #3. and we wind up getting a 50 dollar gift card for . bed...bath and beyond 

 

[doitny]

2 hours ago, Maxman said:

I never said Sam was better than Carr.  The Jets trade comp with the # 2 is higher.  The Texans aren't going to trade for Sam. So the real point is Three # 1's from the Jets including the # 2 overall this year will be the highest offer that the Texans get.

Carr isn't young and he is so-so, so his trade value isn't great. I really just wanted to use so three times in a row.

Besides selling a Carr brother to the fans in Houston should go over well lol.

how about if Houston doesn't want to draft a QB. 

what if they say you keep that 2OA. i want 4 #1s cause i need players. so the late 1 this year, 2 next year and the 2023 #1. 

or

again keep the 2OA, give me 3#1s and QW. remember hes a FA in 3 years. if we still arent that good he will probably leave. but if we are that good and trade him maybe we can sign him in 3 years. 

i see Houston taking the most picks offered and drafting the QB next year. 

[Raideraholic]

On 2/2/2021 at 8:20 PM, rayzor said:

https://twitter.com/VinnyBonsignore/status/1356758961978920960?s=20

 

This would certainly complicate things if it were true.

 

The Raiders aren’t actively trying to trade Derek Carr.( would take a ridiculous offer to move him ).   Derek Carr had excellent year in the third year in J Gruden offense , and out played the best Qb in the league ( Mahomes) in their two meeting this year.

Derek Carr fourth year in Gruden offense >>>>>>>>>> Versus  D Watson first year in Gruden offense.

Most likely the Raiders move M Mariota.( not going to get anywhere close to what they would get for Carr) . Still if some team did trade for Carr( made a crazy offer)  , I think they would probably just go with Mariota .( Gruden type of Qb).     Don’t see D Watson in Vegas .  Cost to acquire , and his future cap hit just doesn’t look like a good fit.

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, doitny said:

I'm glad someone agrees with that point.

here's another one. the Chiefs have  4 1st rd picks on there roster and there in the SB. 3 where drafted by them.

the Jets have 6 1st rd picks 5 if you don't count Flacco. 3 where drafted by us. and we were 2-14 and the Chiefs are in the SB.

TB has 8, 7 if you don't count backup QB Gabbert. 3 were drafted by TB

i just fear in 5 years were going to look back at this and say..

1. No Watson...

2. No QB,... the whole Darnold or draft a QB thing didn't work out for the 10,000 time

3. out of those 4 draft picks they wanted... at least 1 maybe 2 are busts. the other 2 are nice but not game changing players. 

oh and no QW. that untouchable player. if 1-3 happens then QW who will be a FA in 3 years might just leave for a better team. will we even try to sign him if were in ANOTHER rebuild? maybe JD or most likely a different GM can trade QW a year before and get one of those shiny #1 draft picks we all love. yeah!!!

i feel like were on that game show where we just won a nice car. its 3 years old but not much mileage on it. otherwise in mint condition. and were going to risk it for what's behind door #3. and we wind up getting a 50 dollar gift card for . bed...bath and beyond 

 

Watson may not be available, as Houston might simply refuse to trade him. OK, nothing the Jets can do about that if that’s the case.

BUT if Watson is available, and after seeing so many missteps & terrible judgments from Douglas already, from the summer & in-season 2019 to the whole year in 2020, he then turns down the opportunity to reverse the draft day error of a QB-less team drafting a ****ing safety over what turned out to be a couldn’t-miss decision on a QB?

And if he further compounds that by turning down yet another late 1st rounder - as he’s rumored to be worth - to make a huge dent in undoing another team error in drafting Darnold?

Yeah, then my already up & down opinion of Douglas will seem unlikely to soon improve. 

I’m not at all eager to trade away QW, would attempt to get a deal done without him, and I don’t think trading him would be necessary anyway (no one else has a currently-cheap QW to offer Houston anyway, where we’d have to offer him up just to match). Meanwhile if it came down to that, as much as I’d rather trade away another high pick instead, hey teams have been winning superbowls without QW for many years, and will in years to come. But again, we have enough to trade (and enough leftover after a trade) without it being necessary to part with QW.

Yes there are other QBs to be had who’ll show that we didn’t need to make a trade for Watson. It’s certainty of Watson’s ability to perform at a high level against NFL talent is what makes him expensive, and the uncertainty of which will be about as good; not the idea that no one else could be as good.

Plus as an added bonus, which is too-overlooked imo, he erases the need for at least one other big spend on his side of the ball (e.g. the Jets need another WR no matter what, but with Watson instead of Darnold or a rookie, they could get better by with a merely adequate guard instead of shooting for a Thuney/Scherf type FA).  

[MykePM]

9 hours ago, doitny said:

how about if Houston doesn't want to draft a QB. 

what if they say you keep that 2OA. i want 4 #1s cause i need players. so the late 1 this year, 2 next year and the 2023 #1. 

or

again keep the 2OA, give me 3#1s and QW. remember hes a FA in 3 years. if we still arent that good he will probably leave. but if we are that good and trade him maybe we can sign him in 3 years. 

i see Houston taking the most picks offered and drafting the QB next year. 

IF Houston decides to trade Watson, you could be right that they might prefer more first-round picks in return, over getting 2OA - both because it would allow them to draft more players (as you said) and also because the higher # of first rounders would look better for PR purposes.  Getting 4 first rounders would look better than getting 2 or 3, and the court of public opinion won’t take the time to understand that 2OA is really the equivalent of multiple ones.

If that’s the case though, the simple solution for Joe D. would be to agree to terms with a 3rd team (Carolina?} on a deal to cash 2OA in for additional 1s.  If the Texans don’t want Sam included, JD could also line up a Sam deal to factor those returns in.  I’m not sure I buy Schefter’s report that Sam will bring back a first rounder, but if he’s right that will help.

In the end, I think we can also manipulate our resources to offer the highest number of first rounders, if that’s what Houston values, and JD is so inclined.

[Sonny Werblin]

If I was the Texans, I'd insist that Gruden be included in any deal.

[kelly]

17 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

..was a great runner...  still ?  ?