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Because I have serious doubts how much gets played next season.

Right now mlb and the unions may be at greater philosophical chasms as they have ever been. And that is saying something for a relationship that has been as sour as this one.

The fact that the players would not approve any pieces of of some very simple premises (delaying start of the season ( I get that some pitchers are already ramped up), getting paid for 162 games in a 154 season, Universal DH for this season., extra playoff teams this year), means they were not going to agree to anything. And the owners are no saints either.

New CBA next year. It just may be difficult to get there. 

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2 hours ago, chirorob said:

I do not like the extra playoffs.

It defeats the purpose of the long season to separate teams out.

Agreed. Baseball is the one sport where (well at least it was) only the beat compete for the championship. 162 games and a mediocre team gets hot at the right time just seems to demean the long grueling baseball season 

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1 hour ago, Anthony Jet said:

Agreed. Baseball is the one sport where (well at least it was) only the beat compete for the championship. 162 games and a mediocre team gets hot at the right time just seems to demean the long grueling baseball season 

Hopefully this is a pandemic solution for just this year to regain some revenue. But you can be sure that the owners will want to slip it in the next CBA. Players don't like diluted playoffs, because they feel it may dissuade teams from spending as much money in FA. 

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2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Hopefully this is a pandemic solution for just this year to regain some revenue. But you can be sure that the owners will want to slip it in the next CBA. Players don't like diluted playoffs, because they feel it may dissuade teams from spending as much money in FA. 

Never thought of the playoffs being a deterrent to FA spending 

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40 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

Never thought of the playoffs being a deterrent to FA spending 

Players argue that it will deter large markets from spending bigger dollars of they feel they have a better shot of making it in an expanded playoff pool.

What the owners did was take a no brainer idea for the players, the DH (because it elongates careers and adds more roles) and tied it with the expanded playoffs. Quid pro quo.

They hate each other and do not trust each other at all. Players would need even accept being paid for 162 games in a a 154 game season.

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4 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Players argue that it will deter large markets from spending bigger dollars of they feel they have a better shot of making it in an expanded playoff pool.

What the owners did was take a no brainer idea for the players, the DH (because it elongates careers and adds more roles) and tied it with the expanded playoffs. Quid pro quo.

They hate each other and do not trust each other at all. Players would need even accept being paid for 162 games in a a 154 game season.

Thanks for explaining this. I saw this reported but wasn't sure what was going on. I didn't realize the DH and playoffs were tied together.

Was the 154 vs 162 for this season or next?

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2 hours ago, Maxman said:

Thanks for explaining this. I saw this reported but wasn't sure what was going on. I didn't realize the DH and playoffs were tied together.

Was the 154 vs 162 for this season or next?

It was for this season.

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If anybody is interested in a great read, the book "The Lords of the Realm" chronicles the entire history of baseball labor relations, and allows you to understand how we got to this point. Author John Helyar published in 1995, but it sets the stage for where we are today. Long read, but a good read.

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2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

If anybody is interested in a great read, the book "The Lords of the Realm" chronicles the entire history of baseball labor relations, and allows you to understand how we got to this point. Author John Helyar published in 1995, but it sets the stage for where we are today. Long read, but a good read.

Thanks, will put this on my list. Another one you guys might like, is "Tom Seaver and Me," by Pat Jordan. Read it a few weeks ago. It's the story of an unlikely 40+ year friendship between a former Milwaukee Braves bonus baby, turned writer, and Tom. Published in 2020, it ends before Tom's passing, but paints a pretty vivid picture of what his last few years were like. Emotional at times, it's a different look at "The Franchise."' Highly recommend. Not long read, about 200 pages.

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4 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

If anybody is interested in a great read, the book "The Lords of the Realm" chronicles the entire history of baseball labor relations, and allows you to understand how we got to this point. Author John Helyar published in 1995, but it sets the stage for where we are today. Long read, but a good read.

 

4 hours ago, section314 said:

Thanks, will put this on my list. Another one you guys might like, is "Tom Seaver and Me," by Pat Jordan. Read it a few weeks ago. It's the story of an unlikely 40+ year friendship between a former Milwaukee Braves bonus baby, turned writer, and Tom. Published in 2020, it ends before Tom's passing, but paints a pretty vivid picture of what his last few years were like. Emotional at times, it's a different look at "The Franchise."' Highly recommend. Not long read, about 200 pages.

Thanks, guys.  Its that time of year again.  Football season is over (at least for the Jets), baseball season around the corner, but still snow and ice on the ground.  Perfect time of year to read a couple of baseball books to get excited for another season.  I appreciate the rcommendations.

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10 hours ago, The Gun Of Bavaria said:

Baseball has hit rock bottom and continues to dig. 

All the analytics on the game have made it boring.

There is no strategy.   No one runs, no one bunts, no one does a hit and run play.   You can't measure the effects of a stolen base, so they removed it.  Forget the mental stress a true speedster put on a pitcher and catcher.

Pitchers are lauded for strikeouts, but for hitters, strikeouts don't matter.   How does that make sense?   Pitchers throw 170 innings, and still can't stay healthy, because they are just maxing out all the time. 

Baseball is in serious trouble.   I have been watching for almost 40 years, and I think it's boring.   My kids have zero interest.

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22 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Players argue that it will deter large markets from spending bigger dollars of they feel they have a better shot of making it in an expanded playoff pool.

There is something to that.

The more teams make the playoffs, the less pressure from the fans to improve the team, which will decrease what owners need/want to spend.

My take is, in baseball, anyone can win 1 game, or 2 of 3 over any other team.   The best teams still lose 60 games a year, by letting everyone in, it is just bad for the sport.

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2 hours ago, chirorob said:

There is something to that.

The more teams make the playoffs, the less pressure from the fans to improve the team, which will decrease what owners need/want to spend.

My take is, in baseball, anyone can win 1 game, or 2 of 3 over any other team.   The best teams still lose 60 games a year, by letting everyone in, it is just bad for the sport.

Yup. The old adage is every team will win 54 games, every team will lose 54 games, it is what happens in those other 54 games that matter. 

If you increase the playoff pool further, it will greatly detract the beauty of the game.

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On 2/4/2021 at 1:44 PM, chirorob said:

All the analytics on the game have made it boring.

There is no strategy.   No one runs, no one bunts, no one does a hit and run play.   You can't measure the effects of a stolen base, so they removed it.  Forget the mental stress a true speedster put on a pitcher and catcher.

Pitchers are lauded for strikeouts, but for hitters, strikeouts don't matter.   How does that make sense?   Pitchers throw 170 innings, and still can't stay healthy, because they are just maxing out all the time. 

Baseball is in serious trouble.   I have been watching for almost 40 years, and I think it's boring.   My kids have zero interest.

 

Hopefully teams will start to adjust to all of this.  If everybody is going off the same basic analytics playbook, then someone has to zig while others zag.  Suddenly, the team that focuses more on contact hitting and runs more will become the innovators.  And the teams whose pitching staffs opt to throw more pitches higher in the zone to induce hitters to stay in the park will reign supreme.

But I have my doubts.

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On 2/4/2021 at 1:44 PM, chirorob said:

All the analytics on the game have made it boring.

There is no strategy.   No one runs, no one bunts, no one does a hit and run play.   You can't measure the effects of a stolen base, so they removed it.  Forget the mental stress a true speedster put on a pitcher and catcher.

Pitchers are lauded for strikeouts, but for hitters, strikeouts don't matter.   How does that make sense?   Pitchers throw 170 innings, and still can't stay healthy, because they are just maxing out all the time. 

Baseball is in serious trouble.   I have been watching for almost 40 years, and I think it's boring.   My kids have zero interest.

With the exception of who we root for I can’t disagree with anything you’ve said in this thread at all

Every time I see someone talk bad about analytics people jump down there throat but I gotta tell you I think it is ruining the game. 
 

same thing with more playoff teams. Baseball was fine the way it was with 1 WC and that’s it 

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On 2/3/2021 at 7:50 AM, Scott Dierking said:

Because I have serious doubts how much gets played next season.

Right now mlb and the unions may be at greater philosophical chasms as they have ever been. And that is saying something for a relationship that has been as sour as this one.

The fact that the players would not approve any pieces of of some very simple premises (delaying start of the season ( I get that some pitchers are already ramped up), getting paid for 162 games in a 154 season, Universal DH for this season., extra playoff teams this year), means they were not going to agree to anything. And the owners are no saints either.

New CBA next year. It just may be difficult to get there

Not to pile on, but read Bob Klapisch's column today in The Star Ledger. It pretty much confirms what your post states. I actually thought you wrote it.😁

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On 2/4/2021 at 1:44 PM, chirorob said:

All the analytics on the game have made it boring.

There is no strategy.   No one runs, no one bunts, no one does a hit and run play.   You can't measure the effects of a stolen base, so they removed it.  Forget the mental stress a true speedster put on a pitcher and catcher.

Pitchers are lauded for strikeouts, but for hitters, strikeouts don't matter.   How does that make sense?   Pitchers throw 170 innings, and still can't stay healthy, because they are just maxing out all the time. 

Baseball is in serious trouble.   I have been watching for almost 40 years, and I think it's boring.   My kids have zero interest.

I don't think I can upvote this enough.

A guy like Brett Gardner should be hitting to all fields, stealing bases, and laying down bunts. Because of the analytics though he tries to jack everything over the wall in right, strikeouts, batting averages, shifts be dammed.

You want the main reason why the Yanks haven't seen a World Series since 2009. That is it right there. It works in the regular season when you might face a stud pitcher once or twice a week but in the post season when you are seeing the likes of Cole, Verlander, Grienke, Blake Snell, etc and runs are at a premium, you have to be able to steal a base, bunt a guy over, hit the other way. The little things. But Cashman is married to the numbers and makes Boone go by the numbers.

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On 2/5/2021 at 3:32 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Hopefully teams will start to adjust to all of this.  If everybody is going off the same basic analytics playbook, then someone has to zig while others zag.  Suddenly, the team that focuses more on contact hitting and runs more will become the innovators.  And the teams whose pitching staffs opt to throw more pitches higher in the zone to induce hitters to stay in the park will reign supreme.

But I have my doubts.

I don't think that is going to happen. This is now what is being taught in the minor leagues and it carries all the way up to majors.

There was a game a few years ago between the Yankees and Rays and Torreyes was up with a guy on base, Perfect situation for bunt late in the game, get the guy in scoring position for the top of the order. Torreyes doesn't bunt, doesn't get the guy over and after the game the manager ( I don't remember if it was Girardi or Boone) says "Well Torreyes is not a bunter. What ? The guy is like 5 ft nothing and weighs maybe 150 something and he can't lay down a bunt ? 

It just sucks right now

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2 hours ago, shawn306 said:

I don't think I can upvote this enough.

A guy like Brett Gardner should be hitting to all fields, stealing bases, and laying down bunts. Because of the analytics though he tries to jack everything over the wall in right, strikeouts, batting averages, shifts be dammed.

You want the main reason why the Yanks haven't seen a World Series since 2009. That is it right there. It works in the regular season when you might face a stud pitcher once or twice a week but in the post season when you are seeing the likes of Cole, Verlander, Grienke, Blake Snell, etc and runs are at a premium, you have to be able to steal a base, bunt a guy over, hit the other way. The little things. But Cashman is married to the numbers and makes Boone go by the numbers.

Why don't players learn to bunt against the shift?

If you are a major leaguer, you can't work really hard 1 offseason and learn to bunt?   You'd hit 600 on bunts against the shift.  Not 600 overall obviously, but a bunt in play against the shift?   A player with any speed should be able to get on base 3 out of 5.

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9 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Why don't players learn to bunt against the shift?

If you are a major leaguer, you can't work really hard 1 offseason and learn to bunt?   You'd hit 600 on bunts against the shift.  Not 600 overall obviously, but a bunt in play against the shift?   A player with any speed should be able to get on base 3 out of 5.

Chicks dig the long ball.

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11 hours ago, chirorob said:

Why don't players learn to bunt against the shift?

If you are a major leaguer, you can't work really hard 1 offseason and learn to bunt?   You'd hit 600 on bunts against the shift.  Not 600 overall obviously, but a bunt in play against the shift?   A player with any speed should be able to get on base 3 out of 5.

Yep.  Only logical argument against it is injury risk

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25 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Yep.  Only logical argument against it is injury risk

It's not even a pitcher.   A hitter should be able to run hard to first base without pulling a hammy (unless his last name is Stanton).

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On 2/13/2021 at 3:09 PM, chirorob said:

It's not even a pitcher.   A hitter should be able to run hard to first base without pulling a hammy (unless his last name is Stanton).

The argument is that bunting is dangerous because the ball can hit your hands.  I remember AJ Burnett got injured practicing bunting in spring training once like that

 

But yeah I agree.  It was really bad a couple years ago watching the yankees ground out ever hitter against the shift

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